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Re: Storage Cap Ripple

 

As long as the supplies are working, and reasonably close to spec, the 8566 should at least be operational. The first thing is to get to that state, then you can later set the supplies as accurately as you can with what you have, before attempting any calibrations. The "unlock" indicators on the numerous PLLs tell you where to look for the trouble. A message reported on the display may show that any one of a number of PLLs or other sections may have failed to do the right thing, so you have to sort out the details. Sometimes it's as simple as needing an adjustment, but it can be a part failure. Having certain supplies way out of range can of course do it too, and affect many of the subsystems.

As I recall, each PLL block in the 8566 RF section has a status indicator LED that's visible, so you can home in on the module(s) involved. You need to use the manual to locate the functions physically, and interpret the indications - sometimes the indicators don't matter, since it depends on the operating mode. So first, get familiar with the internal layout, and what's what, and where the signals come and go, while you read the circuit descriptions to get the mental picture of what's going on inside. You'll also discover a number of test points and tweaks that you may need to deal with, once you get into it. Somewhere in the troubleshooting section, the manual should list the indicators and meanings, and what may cause the wrong results, and what test points to look at, and so on. You'll figure it out as you go.

Ed
Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

 

Agreed 100% about VHDL!

-Dave

On 2/22/22 20:54, Jim Ford wrote:
A bit later than Palasm was AHDL from Altera, since bought by Intel. Kind of nice, as one could generate fairly complex designs quickly and without the overhead BS of VHDL.? VHDL was designed by committee, and it shows.
Jim Ford
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
-------- Original message --------
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire@...>
Date: 2/22/22 2:02 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
On 2/22/22 16:32, Jeff Anderson wrote:
> I remember designing with PALs, GALs, and CPLDs back in the 80's.? Great
> for reducing the number of SSI TTL chips on a board, but they were
> power-hogs, if I recall correctly.
?? That didn't last long, fortunately.

> I did the programming for various designs with ABEL, PALASM, and CUPL.
> Don't recall their syntax any longer, though.
?? I use PALASM today, for when I need PALs/GALs.? It's great...simple,
fast, no fluff, no BS, predictable.
????????? -Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

A bit later than Palasm was AHDL from Altera, since bought by Intel.? Kind of nice, as one could generate fairly complex designs quickly and without the overhead BS of VHDL.? VHDL was designed by committee, and it shows.

Jim Ford



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device


-------- Original message --------
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire@...>
Date: 2/22/22 2:02 PM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

On 2/22/22 16:32, Jeff Anderson wrote:
> I remember designing with PALs, GALs, and CPLDs back in the 80's.? Great
> for reducing the number of SSI TTL chips on a board, but they were
> power-hogs, if I recall correctly.

?? That didn't last long, fortunately.

> I did the programming for various designs with ABEL, PALASM, and CUPL.?
> Don't recall their syntax any longer, though.

?? I use PALASM today, for when I need PALs/GALs.? It's great...simple,
fast, no fluff, no BS, predictable.

????????? -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
HP 1727A CRO: Problem with the vertical output amplifier.

 

Hello HP/Agilent/Keysight people!

I am? new here, this group was recommended to me by someone on the EEVblog forum, that's where I came from.

I have had this HP 1727A scope for a while now and have has moderate success fixing it up, I came to me with a whole host of problem that I will not get into right now, but the last remaining one is a distorted trace, which I tracked to the vertical output amp.

I will be referencing the PDF manual attached below in my description of where I am as far as trouble shooting. I have narrowed the problem area down to either U1 or surrounding components (pgs. 133-134). Attached are some captures of signals present on various pins of U1, refer to the file names for extra details.

My hope is that someone in this group could help me with some tests to do in order to prove that U1 is good or bad, and if it is bad, recommend a repair path. I should mention that my particular 1727A is somewhat of an oddity, I think it is a very early hardware revision, as such there are quite a few differences between it and the manual, both my hardcopy and the pdf.

HP 1727A scope manual.pdf
HP 1727A scope manual.pdf
U1, red pin 5, blue pin 4.png
U1, red pin 13, blue pin 12.png

Re: Storage Cap Ripple

 

Hi and thanks for the info.
Those tolerances are way tighter than I'd ever imagined! No way can I meet those kind of standards with the meters I have currently. I also very much doubt I have the necessary equipment for the subsequent re-calibration, either. Really annoying, as I have a *ton* of high-end test gear here, but it's almost all vintage stuff and also out of calibration. As just a radio ham and someone that enjoys goofing around with electronics, the stuff I have is fine from the hobby point of view and I enjoy fixing up old test gear and getting it working again, but I never return it to professional standards of accuracy because the full range of test gear needed to achieve that standard is eye-wateringly expensive and I can't justify that level of financial outlay. :(
Re: HP8568B manual quality

 

Lou,
I have the 8568B manual set from Artek.? It is definitely better!? I can easily read the signal names and pin numbers on that exact area of the schematic.
--John Gord


On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 12:16 PM, Lou Blasco wrote:
Hi,

Has anyone purchased HP8568B manuals from Artek and if so are the circuits better image quality than the attached example?
?
?

Regards
?
Lou
VK3ALB
Re: HP8568B manual quality

 

Thanks All,

Indeed the quality is excellent and the price is very fair. Example of the same section that I posted before.

image.png

Regards

Lou
VK3ALB


On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 9:51 AM Raymond Domp Frank <hewpatek@...> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 11:47 PM, Raymond Domp Frank wrote:
In my experience, Dave's (ArtekManuals') scans are as good as they get.
My 8568A manual definitely is much better than your 8568B sample.

Raymond

Re: HP 3048A software without floppy disks

 

On 2/22/22 01:59, rmb_guru via groups.io wrote:
BTW, you can just ignore the prompts to change floppy disks when asked, since all the files are one the same volume.
It's trivial to edit the source code and comment out that prompt.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: HP8568B manual quality

 

On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 11:47 PM, Raymond Domp Frank wrote:
In my experience, Dave's (ArtekManuals') scans are as good as they get.
My 8568A manual definitely is much better than your 8568B sample.

Raymond
Re: HP8568B manual quality

 

On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 09:16 PM, Lou Blasco wrote:
Has anyone purchased HP8568B manuals from Artek and if so are the circuits better image quality than the attached example?
In my experience, Dave's (ArtekManuals') scans are as good as they get. He is dependent on the quality of his original though, which cannot always be a good quality printed version.
If you email him and specify an example page, I'm pretty sure he'll give a specific and clear response.

Raymond
Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

 

On 2/22/22 16:32, Jeff Anderson wrote:
I remember designing with PALs, GALs, and CPLDs back in the 80's.? Great for reducing the number of SSI TTL chips on a board, but they were power-hogs, if I recall correctly.
That didn't last long, fortunately.

I did the programming for various designs with ABEL, PALASM, and CUPL. Don't recall their syntax any longer, though.
I use PALASM today, for when I need PALs/GALs. It's great...simple, fast, no fluff, no BS, predictable.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

 

I remember designing with PALs, GALs, and CPLDs back in the 80's.? Great for reducing the number of SSI TTL chips on a board, but they were power-hogs, if I recall correctly.

I did the programming for various designs with ABEL, PALASM, and CUPL.? Don't recall their syntax any longer, though.

- Jeff, k6jca
Re: HP8568B manual quality

 

I print schematics on a D sized plotter. The schematics from Artek manuals are always excellent quality and print clearly without dropouts or fuzzed lines, even when enlarged.

Well worth the very modest cost.

Paul

On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 01:04:44PM -0800, Glydeck via groups.io wrote:
All of the manuals I¡¯ve purchased from Artek are much better than your example.

George
On Feb 22, 2022, at 12:16 PM, Lou Blasco <vk3alb@...> wrote:

?
Hi,

Has anyone purchased HP8568B manuals from Artek and if so are the circuits better image quality than the attached example?




Regards

Lou
VK3ALB






!DSPAM:62154ff99601493514534!
--
Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Manchester MI, USA
Aurora Group of Michigan, LLC | Security, Systems & Software
paul@... | Unix/Linux - We don't do windows
Re: HP8568B manual quality

 

Thanks George,

That's what I was hoping to hear.

--
Regards

Lou
VK3ALB
Re: HP8568B manual quality

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

All of the manuals I¡¯ve purchased from Artek are much better than your example.

George?


On Feb 22, 2022, at 12:16 PM, Lou Blasco <vk3alb@...> wrote:

?
Hi,

Has anyone purchased HP8568B manuals from Artek and if so are the circuits better image quality than the attached example?

image.png


Regards

Lou
VK3ALB
Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

 

True, a shift register may be all you can get.? Making a counter can be more difficult because you may not have access to the preset lines on the flipflops.

I skipped from the 22V10 directly to CPLDs.? I had designs that I couldn't do in PALS.

Harvey

On 2/22/2022 3:14 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 2/22/22 14:04, Harvey White wrote:
PALs are combinational logic, such as (using address lines)? A4 and A3 and not A2 and A1 and not A0.

To decode serial data, you need flip-flops, some storage to convert serial to parallel and then act on that.

CPLD's can do that, but with most PAL chips, depending on what's internal, it would be difficult.

Generally, PALs are used to decode address lines to enable a specific chip.
? No.? The very earliest PALs, like PAL16L8 etc, are combinatorial. But shortly thereafter, 16R8 (etc), the 'R' meaning "Registered", appeared.? These are sequential logic devices that store state and have feedback terms.? Still later, the 16V8 etc, (the 'V' meaning "Variable" or "Versatile", depending on who you ask) have still greater functionality.? It's easy to implement something like a shift register using PALs and nothing else.

???????????? -Dave
Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

 

On 2/22/22 15:26, Wilko Bulte wrote:
16V8 etc were GAL, not PAL, devices. Erasable, and more flexible architecturally than PAL devices.
The terms are used interchangeably all over the industry, just like the chips.

Used them when I did my first hardware design (professionally I mean). Shows my age I suppose :-/
Yup. Which means you know what you're talking about.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

 

16V8 etc were GAL, not PAL, devices. Erasable, and more flexible architecturally than PAL devices.

Used them when I did my first hardware design (professionally I mean). Shows my age I suppose :-/

Wilko
HP8568B manual quality

 

Hi,

Has anyone purchased HP8568B manuals from Artek and if so are the circuits better image quality than the attached example?

image.png


Regards

Lou
VK3ALB
PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

 

On 2/22/22 14:04, Harvey White wrote:
PALs are combinational logic, such as (using address lines)? A4 and A3 and not A2 and A1 and not A0.
To decode serial data, you need flip-flops, some storage to convert serial to parallel and then act on that.
CPLD's can do that, but with most PAL chips, depending on what's internal, it would be difficult.
Generally, PALs are used to decode address lines to enable a specific chip.
No. The very earliest PALs, like PAL16L8 etc, are combinatorial. But shortly thereafter, 16R8 (etc), the 'R' meaning "Registered", appeared. These are sequential logic devices that store state and have feedback terms. Still later, the 16V8 etc, (the 'V' meaning "Variable" or "Versatile", depending on who you ask) have still greater functionality. It's easy to implement something like a shift register using PALs and nothing else.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
28781 - 28800 of 151396