Re: [hp70k] msib sniffer/injector interest query
On 24/04/20 9:07 am, David & Laura wrote: I've been mulling over something like this myself, and did some work on a logic analyzer tap for the external?MISB shelf-to-shelf cable a few years back. Perhaps the ensuing PCB could have the through-holes and pads put in the design to allow the components for a tap to be installed if desired?
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Re: HP8562A Errors 304,335,317,333
Hi,
I used Chipquick to remove a broken ADC from my TDS540B acquisition board and from a donor board.
Worked great.
I added Chipquick to all the joints and heated the whole chip using hot air to remove it.
Afterwards I cleaned the soldering pads using a normal iron and flux.
Putting the donor part back was done using a normal, small flat soldering iron.
Pictures can be found here:
/g/TekScopes/album?id=21745
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Re: HP8562A Errors 304,335,317,333
On 22/04/20 08:46, Peter Hansen wrote: Hello Stu be very carefull if you will recap the psu. It is an old brittle 4 layer board. solder joints does need alot of heat. Has anybody tried using the Chipquik bismuth-based solder that melts at 58C? The principle is that you add the that to the joint, it forms an alloy with a low melting point, and can be removed at a lower temperature and with less heat. It is sold as an aid removing SMD chips, but is it effective for through hole components?
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Re: Maximum depth of HP rack mountable gear?
Yes, my garage laboratory. Here's a photo from a month or so ago. To the right, by the fan, is just about enough space for a 19-inch rack, minus doors, sidewalls, etc.
Jim
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------ Original Message ------ From: "Dave McGuire" <mcguire@...> To: [email protected]Sent: 4/23/2020 9:39:00 PM Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Maximum depth of HP rack mountable gear?
Oh. Ok.
Whew.
On 4/24/20 12:37 AM, Jeremy Nichols wrote:
He meant ¡°laboratory.¡±
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:21 PM Dave McGuire <mcguire@...
<mailto:mcguire@...>> wrote:
Garage?!
On 4/24/20 12:10 AM, Jim Ford wrote:
> Nice rack! I'm envious. I could fit a lot more much-needed gear
in my
> garage if I had a rack...
>
> Jim Ford
>
--
Jeremy Nichols
6.
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: Maximum depth of HP rack mountable gear?
Congratulations on putting together this magnificent rack of HP gear? Jared. You've used this period of?State lockdown very productively :)
If it's not too much of an intrusion, what decided?the stacking order for you? Noticing that the CRT instruments aren't at eye?level at the top of the rack, maybe you decided the stacking order should be set by most used instruments at the?top, or heaviest instruments at the bottom. Also? are any of the rack instrument set up for remote access?
Thanks for sharing the picture.
On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 4:39 PM Dave McGuire < mcguire@...> wrote:
? Oh.? Ok.
? Whew.
On 4/24/20 12:37 AM, Jeremy Nichols wrote:
> He meant ¡°laboratory.¡±
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:21 PM Dave McGuire <mcguire@...
> <mailto:mcguire@...>> wrote:
>
>
>? ? ?? Garage?!
>
>? ? ?On 4/24/20 12:10 AM, Jim Ford wrote:
>? ? ?> Nice rack!? I'm envious.? I could fit a lot more much-needed gear
>? ? ?in my
>? ? ?> garage if I had a rack...
>? ? ?>
>? ? ?> Jim Ford?
>? ? ?>?
>
> --
> Jeremy Nichols
> 6.
>
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: Maximum depth of HP rack mountable gear?
Oh. Ok.
Whew.
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Show quoted text
On 4/24/20 12:37 AM, Jeremy Nichols wrote: He meant ¡°laboratory.¡±
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:21 PM Dave McGuire <mcguire@...
<mailto:mcguire@...>> wrote:
? Garage?!
On 4/24/20 12:10 AM, Jim Ford wrote:
> Nice rack!? I'm envious.? I could fit a lot more much-needed gear
in my
> garage if I had a rack...
>
> Jim Ford?
>?
--
Jeremy Nichols
6.
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: Maximum depth of HP rack mountable gear?
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Show quoted text
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:21 PM Dave McGuire < mcguire@...> wrote:
? Garage?!
On 4/24/20 12:10 AM, Jim Ford wrote:
> Nice rack!? I'm envious.? I could fit a lot more much-needed gear in my
> garage if I had a rack...
>
> Jim Ford?
>?
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Re: [hp70k] msib sniffer/injector interest query
I for one think that's a fantastic idea. I'm a heavy user of MSIB
stuff, and would love to see it extended a bit.
-Dave
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On 4/23/20 3:59 PM, Jan de Jongh wrote: Dear all,
While building my 3rd hp70k-mms system, I want to assess the interest in
a project idea I've had for the past two years or so: A
*sniffer/injector* for the hp70k module-interconnection protocol
(*msib*). All (hardware/software) open source; this is not a commercial
proposal (apart from e.g. cost-price PCB delivery).
The very rough basic idea is to take a single-width hp70k module
(likely, for-parts-only), strip everything inside apart from the msib
interface and mechanical interfaces, and put inside one or more PCBs that:
* Interface with the msib bus such that 'basic bus transactions' can
be captured;
* Store these 'transactions' into (e.g.) a pcap file on an ssd
connected to a (say) an embedded Raspberry Pi;
* Transfer these 'transactions' over 1 Gbps Ethernet (copper/Fiber
Optic) from the Raspberry Pi;
* Interface over Ethernet both from the front and the rear;
* Import the pcap 'transaction' into Wireshark (on a remote machine);
* Interpret the 'transactions' using an hp70k-msib dissector;
* Perhaps add power monitoring, etc.;
* ...
This would be the basic first-order requirements of the project. In
subsequent phases, injection of messages/transactions on the bus and
running HP calibration (HP-BASIC) software from virtualized containers
could be implemented.
*My questions:*
* Is any project already working on something like this that I can
join (I could not find any)?
* Would this be interesting enough to the amateur hp70k community? Is
there sufficient added value to a tool like this over merely
swapping modules in order to get things to work?
* Does a tool like this have the potential to increase the public
knowledge on the hp70k mms? Could it reveal calibration data? Is it
worth it?
* *Would anyone be willing to help?* I figure that even a first
attempt at a working prototype would take over a year, but various
components of the project (like the pcap format definition,
wireshark dissectors, web-based interfacing, RPi firmware, KiCAD PCB
design of bus interfacing, ...) could be isolated and
designed/implemented in a team-effort... Needless to say this
project would required >=4 committed enthusiast aficionados...
Thanks in advance for your thoughts/vision on this, BR,
Jan - pa3gyf
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: Maximum depth of HP rack mountable gear?
Garage?!
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On 4/24/20 12:10 AM, Jim Ford wrote: Nice rack!? I'm envious.? I could fit a lot more much-needed gear in my
garage if I had a rack...
Jim Ford?
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: "Jared Cabot via groups.io" <jaredcabot@...>
Date: 4/23/20 6:24 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Maximum depth of HP rack
mountable gear?
Here's the rack I picked up, it's 25U height, 800mm in total depth (I
removed a rear extension part with the rear door) and the posts are set
to 650mm.
Now I just need a second one to hold the rest of my gear..... :D
Next step is to get it tethered down, probably with? few brackets to the
wall (I had the wall reinforced with plyboard behind the gyprock when we
built to place so I could attach shelves and desks etc)
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: Maximum depth of HP rack mountable gear?
Nice rack!? I'm envious.? I could fit a lot more much-needed gear in my garage if I had a rack...
Jim Ford?
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: "Jared Cabot via groups.io" <jaredcabot@...> Date: 4/23/20 6:24 PM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Maximum depth of HP rack mountable gear?
Here's the rack I picked up, it's 25U height, 800mm in total depth (I removed a rear extension part with the rear door) and the posts are set to 650mm. Now I just need a second one to hold the rest of my gear..... :D Next step is to get it tethered down, probably with? few brackets to the wall (I had the wall reinforced with plyboard behind the gyprock when we built to place so I could attach shelves and desks etc)
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Re: Maximum depth of HP rack mountable gear?
On 4/23/20 9:24 PM, Jared Cabot via groups.io wrote: Here's the rack I picked up, it's 25U height, 800mm in total depth (I
removed a rear extension part with the rear door) and the posts are set
to 650mm.
Now I just need a second one to hold the rest of my gear..... :D
Next step is to get it tethered down, probably with? few brackets to the
wall (I had the wall reinforced with plyboard behind the gyprock when we
built to place so I could attach shelves and desks etc)
"That's right purty, there." -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: Jacks added to 6623A System PSU
Yes. :) Thank you!
-Dave
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On 4/23/20 8:19 PM, Jared Cabot via groups.io wrote: Hi,
?
One and the same. :)
I'm glad someone else found my random creations useful! :D
Jared.
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 03:53 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
That's you? Neat. I'm using your camera mount in my D6, and have
been wanting to do the Tek 222 battery pack upgrade.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
And if you mentioned a "nibble" they probably think you're hungry.
-Dave
On Thursday, April 23, 2020, 03:34:21 PM PDT, Bill E <solartron@...> wrote:
This is something that has been known for years, even some papers about it. Apparently human perception time is the determining factor. Faster processors, more complex (which of course doesn't mean better) sw, the speed x complexity seems to be a constant. Don't get me started on how lame modern sw is, just bloat on top of bloat. Yes, I'm an EE, and yes, I went to the dark side, sw. Just stunned at what has happened to sw from my early assembly, then C, now Java days. No 'programmers' now even know what a byte is, no wonder that sw that used to run in kbytes now take gigabytes.
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Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
This is kind of an extreme example, but I really liked my Commodore computers (PET/CBM) because when you turned them on, they were instantly ready to go.? Sure, you still had to load a program, but that took just a few seconds (usually) from the floppy drive.? I miss that!
Of course, it did nothing compared to what my current computers (or phone) can do, but at least it was fast.? A few days ago I was in a zoom meeting, and the dog caused my laptop to shut down (brushing against the power cord, making it intermittent).? It took 17 minutes for the computer to be completely usable again.? That's insane.
At least I don't have to buy a new one every other year just to be able to use current features, like the late '80s, early 90's!
-Dave
On Thursday, April 23, 2020, 03:01:11 PM PDT, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
More "features" are being added.? Better graphics, more
connectivity, more things going on (for instance, re-indexing all
of your photographs, requested action or not).? There's an awful
lot going on under the hood of the modern computer, good or bad,
and all that takes processor time.? If, perhaps, the OS were
written so that the OS itself could ONLY grab so much of the
resources, well, that might be different.? Would take some thought
and design, of course.
But I wouldn't just blame the programmers (who were taught
however they were taught).? Marketing needs this new feature, how
can we get it in?? We don't care if it's slowing down the machine,
they can just upgrade that to run xxx).
Then again, there's the people out there that insist on those
features....? and they buy computers.? Not, mind you that you can
turn OFF any of these highly desirable features.? (Windows
Messenger, cloud services, etc....)
Harvey
On 4/19/2020 8:39 PM, Jim Ford wrote:
Yes, indeed.? Why do we need faster and faster hardware??
Slower and slower software, of course!? The problem is that
software is getting slower and slower faster than hardware is
getting faster and faster. :(
Jim Ford?
Sent from my
Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
Date: 4/19/20 5:03 PM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment]
new File called App notes
On 4/19/20 7:38 PM, Bob Albert via groups.io wrote:
> I must say that I saw a pattern in my professional life.?
Everywhere I
> went, including the military, I was told that things were
really nice a
> while back, and I should have been there then.? Perhaps
nostalgia isn't
> what it used to be.
? This didn't just happen at random.? This, along with another
major
problem, software bloat, can be traced to just about the same time
and
the same type of attitude.
? Sometime in the 1970s, I think it was, some clueless economics
professor in some ivory tower said something to the effect of "the
sole
purpose of any corporation is to make money by any means
possible," all
other considerations be damned.? Suits all over the world took
this as
if they'd just been released from some sort of prison (where many
of
them arguably belong) and they went absolutely wild.? It was then
that
the decline of these corporations, and the rise of extreme levels
of
sleaze at the executive level, began.? Enron, Worldcom, etc.?
Crime no
longer need take place in dark alleys and crack houses, it moved
to the
comfort of the boardroom!? We all get screwed daily by the result
of this.
? Also sometime in the 1970s, another moron, probably related to
the one
described above, said "programmer time is more valuable than
processor
time".? This similarly caused the laziest programmers to act as if
they'd be unchained, and the decline of computing efficiency, and
caring
about same, began.? This is why modern OSs require multi-GHz clock
speeds and billions of bytes of memory just to boot, much less get
any
work done.
? If I ever get my hands around the neck of either of these men,
they
will have a difficult day.
????????????? -Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: Maximum depth of HP rack mountable gear?
Here's the rack I picked up, it's 25U height, 800mm in total depth (I removed a rear extension part with the rear door) and the posts are set to 650mm.
Now I just need a second one to hold the rest of my gear..... :D
Next step is to get it tethered down, probably with? few brackets to the wall (I had the wall reinforced with plyboard behind the gyprock when we built to place so I could attach shelves and desks etc)
|
Re: Jacks added to 6623A System PSU
Hi,
?
One and the same. :)
I'm glad someone else found my random creations useful! :D
Jared.
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 03:53 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
That's you? Neat. I'm using your camera mount in my D6, and have
been wanting to do the Tek 222 battery pack upgrade.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
This is something that has been known for years, even some papers about it. Apparently human perception time is the determining factor. Faster processors, more complex (which of course doesn't mean better) sw, the speed x complexity seems to be a constant. Don't get me started on how lame modern sw is, just bloat on top of bloat. Yes, I'm an EE, and yes, I went to the dark side, sw. Just stunned at what has happened to sw from my early assembly, then C, now Java days. No 'programmers' now even know what a byte is, no wonder that sw that used to run in kbytes now take gigabytes.
|
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
More "features" are being added.? Better graphics, more
connectivity, more things going on (for instance, re-indexing all
of your photographs, requested action or not).? There's an awful
lot going on under the hood of the modern computer, good or bad,
and all that takes processor time.? If, perhaps, the OS were
written so that the OS itself could ONLY grab so much of the
resources, well, that might be different.? Would take some thought
and design, of course.
But I wouldn't just blame the programmers (who were taught
however they were taught).? Marketing needs this new feature, how
can we get it in?? We don't care if it's slowing down the machine,
they can just upgrade that to run xxx).
Then again, there's the people out there that insist on those
features....? and they buy computers.? Not, mind you that you can
turn OFF any of these highly desirable features.? (Windows
Messenger, cloud services, etc....)
Harvey
On 4/19/2020 8:39 PM, Jim Ford wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Yes, indeed.? Why do we need faster and faster hardware??
Slower and slower software, of course!? The problem is that
software is getting slower and slower faster than hardware is
getting faster and faster. :(
Jim Ford?
Sent from my
Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
Date: 4/19/20 5:03 PM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment]
new File called App notes
On 4/19/20 7:38 PM, Bob Albert via groups.io wrote:
> I must say that I saw a pattern in my professional life.?
Everywhere I
> went, including the military, I was told that things were
really nice a
> while back, and I should have been there then.? Perhaps
nostalgia isn't
> what it used to be.
? This didn't just happen at random.? This, along with another
major
problem, software bloat, can be traced to just about the same time
and
the same type of attitude.
? Sometime in the 1970s, I think it was, some clueless economics
professor in some ivory tower said something to the effect of "the
sole
purpose of any corporation is to make money by any means
possible," all
other considerations be damned.? Suits all over the world took
this as
if they'd just been released from some sort of prison (where many
of
them arguably belong) and they went absolutely wild.? It was then
that
the decline of these corporations, and the rise of extreme levels
of
sleaze at the executive level, began.? Enron, Worldcom, etc.?
Crime no
longer need take place in dark alleys and crack houses, it moved
to the
comfort of the boardroom!? We all get screwed daily by the result
of this.
? Also sometime in the 1970s, another moron, probably related to
the one
described above, said "programmer time is more valuable than
processor
time".? This similarly caused the laziest programmers to act as if
they'd be unchained, and the decline of computing efficiency, and
caring
about same, began.? This is why modern OSs require multi-GHz clock
speeds and billions of bytes of memory just to boot, much less get
any
work done.
? If I ever get my hands around the neck of either of these men,
they
will have a difficult day.
????????????? -Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: [hp70k] msib sniffer/injector interest query
I'm too busy with Real Work? to be of much assistance, but I'd love to see it done, especially as a system controller that can put a real computer in front of all the snazzy instruments.
bob
I've been mulling over something like this myself, and did some work on a logic analyzer tap for the external?MISB shelf-to-shelf cable a few years back.
Interestingly, HP had a full embedded controller?with an Ethernet interface, the 70500A "Real Time Controller/Embedded Controller", which was *almost* released to the public, but the 70K product line was killed before it made it out.
I'd base it around the 70100A module: they're inexpensive, readily available, and you can replace the analog board, while leaving the existing digital board to provide power conversion and regulation.
The RF or power sensor connector can be replaced with a circular RJ-45 through-bulkhead connector (e.g. a?VPRJ-08-08-M-P). to get Ethernet to the outside world.
I'd use a Raspberry Pi zero as the main processor,?and there's need to be some glue logic to?buffer MISB data for capture and playback¡ªgiven the work required, no reason why not to make the pi a full-fledged bus participant.
Ideally, I'd like to see a web-based javascript front-end that lets you create visual interfaces, display data, run scripts, etc.
Lots of work involved, but I'd be willing to help.
If anyone has these documents, they will help significantly:
5958¨C6629 HP-MSIB Interface Design Guide 5958¨C6631 Communication Protocol Design Guide
Thanks,
David Slik VE7FIM
Dear all,
While building my 3rd hp70k-mms system, I want to assess the interest in a project idea I've had for the past two years or so: A sniffer/injector for the hp70k module-interconnection protocol (msib). All (hardware/software) open source; this is not a commercial proposal (apart from e.g. cost-price PCB delivery).
The very rough basic idea is to take a single-width hp70k module (likely, for-parts-only), strip everything inside apart from the msib interface and mechanical interfaces, and put inside one or more PCBs that:
- Interface with the msib bus such that 'basic bus transactions' can be captured;
- Store these 'transactions' into (e.g.) a pcap file on an ssd connected to a (say) an embedded Raspberry Pi;
- Transfer these 'transactions' over 1 Gbps Ethernet (copper/Fiber Optic) from the Raspberry Pi;
- Interface over Ethernet both from the front and the rear;
- Import the pcap 'transaction' into Wireshark (on a remote machine);
- Interpret the 'transactions' using an hp70k-msib dissector;
- Perhaps add power monitoring, etc.;
- ...
This would be the basic first-order requirements of the project. In subsequent phases, injection of messages/transactions on the bus and running HP calibration (HP-BASIC) software from virtualized containers could be implemented.
My questions:
- Is any project already working on something like this that I can join (I could not find any)?
- Would this be interesting enough to the amateur hp70k community? Is there sufficient added value to a tool like this over merely swapping modules in order to get things to work?
- Does a tool like this have the potential to increase the public knowledge on the hp70k mms? Could it reveal calibration data? Is it worth it?
- Would anyone be willing to help? I figure that even a first attempt at a working prototype would take over a year, but various components of the project (like the pcap format definition, wireshark dissectors, web-based interfacing, RPi firmware, KiCAD PCB design of bus interfacing, ...) could be isolated and designed/implemented in a team-effort... Needless to say this project would required >=4 committed enthusiast aficionados...
Thanks in advance for your thoughts/vision on this, BR,
Jan - pa3gyf
|
Dave McGuire
Jeremy Nichols
Jared Cabot
bownes