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Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice

 

Hi Chuck
That reminds me
I must order some new cells as all of my 8350 are running without any
batteries

Ok winter job I have collected a truck load of 8620 10 off
so must service and make good should salvage 8 out of the 10

Regards Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chuck Harris
Sent: 14 December 2019 15:45
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8350B w/83590A repair advice

Note that the 8350B has a 3- AA cell nicad battery,
repurposed from the HP-35 calculators. The pack is
on trickle charge whenever the 8350B is turned on,
and after a year, or two of that abuse, spews its
highly caustic guts all over the side of whatever
plugin is in the 8350B at the time.

The electrolyte tends to ruin the GPIB board, and
the plugin's main circuit board.

You might look there.

-Chuck Harris

pa0jme1952@... wrote:
I took a look at the blockdiagram of my 83592, which differs only with an
extra low band mixer,
The sweeper unit is a cascade of
a) YTO o/p 2.4-7.0GHz
b) amplifier
c) isolator
d) YTM (multiplier)
e) YTF
The most probable cause imho is tracking of the 3 YIG devices, at least
that's my experience with the older 86290B which showed the same symptoms.
The tracking is done by opamp controlled current sources and can be caused
by resistor ageing
Unfortunately I gave a few years ago my 83590 manuals away
Best regards Rien








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Re: 2401C Integrating Digital Voltmeter and 2410B AC - Ohms Converter

 

I can't help marveling at the workmanship that went into that equipment.

On 12/14/19 12:39 AM, Patrick Manning wrote:
I have also a set in the repair queue.? My 2401C sounds to be a bit older than yours, Terry, as it's the Dymec-labeled version, s/n 622-01154.? The 2410B is 644-01052, and despite having a lower serial number than yours, mine has an HP-labeled front panel.
I'll need to fabricate some boards to integrate them, though, as they weren't a set and the 2401C is not equipped with the boards needed to let it talk to the 2410B.
Gotta love a full rack width, 20+ inch deep, 13-1/2" tall nearly 100lb stack of gear that will measure DC and AC voltage, and resistance.? One of these years, in my spare time (so called because I have so little of it...)? Cool old boat anchors - it's nice to know others are keeping them alive, too.
Some photos of the 2401C are at
-Pat

On December 13, 2019 at 6:37 PM Terry Gains <terry.waihi@...> wrote:

Who here, runs these find beasts?

My HP 2401C Integrating Digital Voltmeter (SN 811-02807 opt 21,31,146) and HP 2410B AC - Ohms Converter Dymec (SN 644-01126) are about to be restored, interconnected and calibrated.

They don't appear to have been mentioned in this forum before, but I'm betting someone out there is also keeping these in working order.

Incidentally, they are both in pristine condition, remarkable for their age, and the?2410B has a asset sticker from a previous owner, the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, which will be left on the instrument.

Kind regards,
Terry
Re: 2401C Integrating Digital Voltmeter and 2410B AC - Ohms Converter

 

Gentlemen,

There is also a 3461A, which is the AC-Ohms converter for the 3460A. It¡¯s the equivalent of the 2410, I believe. I¡¯ve never seen a 3461 outside of a catalog.

Jeremy?


On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 10:39 PM Patrick Manning <pbmanning@...> wrote:

I have also a set in the repair queue.? My 2401C sounds to be a bit older than yours, Terry, as it's the Dymec-labeled version, s/n 622-01154.? The 2410B is 644-01052, and despite having a lower serial number than yours, mine has an HP-labeled front panel.

I'll need to fabricate some boards to integrate them, though, as they weren't a set and the 2401C is not equipped with the boards needed to let it talk to the 2410B.

Gotta love a full rack width, 20+ inch deep, 13-1/2" tall nearly 100lb stack of gear that will measure DC and AC voltage, and resistance.? One of these years, in my spare time (so called because I have so little of it...)? Cool old boat anchors - it's nice to know others are keeping them alive, too.

Some photos of the 2401C are at?

-Pat

On December 13, 2019 at 6:37 PM Terry Gains <terry.waihi@...> wrote:

Who here, runs these find beasts?

My HP 2401C Integrating Digital Voltmeter (SN 811-02807 opt 21,31,146) and HP 2410B AC - Ohms Converter Dymec (SN 644-01126) are about to be restored, interconnected and calibrated.

They don't appear to have been mentioned in this forum before, but I'm betting someone out there is also keeping these in working order.

Incidentally, they are both in pristine condition, remarkable for their age, and the?2410B has a asset sticker from a previous owner, the NASA? Goddard Space Flight Center, which will be left on the instrument.?

Kind regards,
Terry

--
Jeremy Nichols
6.
Re: Using an 8903B to analyze power audio amp

 

I have a 8903 and have used it with home-built audio amps. Many years ago did I build a dual (as in stereo) dummy load. It is just rated at 21W but that is usually sufficient. It has a bunch of wirewounds and banana jacks so I can configure it for 4 or 8 ohm and it has convenient BNC-outputs on the back.

I wrote a small macro in Excel/VBA to step the frequency and record the distortion values.
83650 Doubler Amplifier

 

Hi! I've got an 83650 signal generator that's starting to get slightly anemic in power level right below 20GHz (8dBm -- it used to be 12 or 13dBm). I went through the YTM bias/tracking calibration and YTF tracking calibration procedures, but wasn't able to improve the performance. I suspect the YTM. In any case, as a quick fix I've been enabling the doubler amplifier in the 13.5-20GHz band, which gives me plenty of power for my needs. It's annoying to have to do this every time I reset the instrument (or a script resets it), as the default doubler amplifier configuration is AUTO rather than ON, and the AUTO configuration turns off the amplifier in the 13.5-20GHz band. The documentation for Doubler Amp Mode AUTO says:
"The doubler has an integral amplifier whose operation is controlled by the instrument firmware. The use of the amplifier depends on the frequency of operation and on the calibration constants set at the factory. The instrument defaults after preset to this automatic mode of operation which is the speci fied operation. This softkey has no eff ect on instruments without a doubler."

I would like to configure AUTO mode to enable the doubler in the 13.5-20GHz band, and the description suggests that this might be possible, but I haven't been able to figure out which calibration constants I should edit to actually accomplish this. Any ideas?

Thanks!
-deWerd
Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice

 

Note that the 8350B has a 3- AA cell nicad battery,
repurposed from the HP-35 calculators. The pack is
on trickle charge whenever the 8350B is turned on,
and after a year, or two of that abuse, spews its
highly caustic guts all over the side of whatever
plugin is in the 8350B at the time.

The electrolyte tends to ruin the GPIB board, and
the plugin's main circuit board.

You might look there.

-Chuck Harris

pa0jme1952@... wrote:

I took a look at the blockdiagram of my 83592, which differs only with an extra low band mixer,
The sweeper unit is a cascade of
a) YTO o/p 2.4-7.0GHz
b) amplifier
c) isolator
d) YTM (multiplier)
e) YTF
The most probable cause imho is tracking of the 3 YIG devices, at least that's my experience with the older 86290B which showed the same symptoms.
The tracking is done by opamp controlled current sources and can be caused by resistor ageing
Unfortunately I gave a few years ago my 83590 manuals away
Best regards Rien
Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice

 

I would suspect the YTO. I have seen several fail over the years...... The YTO output at the rear side is a good starting point.....
Good luck, 73? de

Harke


On Saturday, December 14, 2019, 03:54:24 PM GMT+1, jfphp via Groups.Io <jfphp@...> wrote:


There is no YTF in the A and B models : only in the C
On Saturday, December 14, 2019, 3:42:47 PM GMT+1, <pa0jme1952@...> wrote:


I took a look at the blockdiagram of my 83592, which differs only with an extra low band mixer,
The sweeper unit is a cascade of
a) YTO o/p 2.4-7.0GHz
b) amplifier
c) isolator
d) YTM (multiplier)
e) YTF
The most probable cause imho is tracking of the 3 YIG devices, at least that's my experience with the older 86290B which showed the same symptoms.
The tracking is done by opamp controlled current sources and can be caused by resistor ageing
Unfortunately I gave a few years ago my 83590 manuals away?
Best regards Rien
Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice

 

There is no YTF in the A and B models : only in the C
On Saturday, December 14, 2019, 3:42:47 PM GMT+1, <pa0jme1952@...> wrote:


I took a look at the blockdiagram of my 83592, which differs only with an extra low band mixer,
The sweeper unit is a cascade of
a) YTO o/p 2.4-7.0GHz
b) amplifier
c) isolator
d) YTM (multiplier)
e) YTF
The most probable cause imho is tracking of the 3 YIG devices, at least that's my experience with the older 86290B which showed the same symptoms.
The tracking is done by opamp controlled current sources and can be caused by resistor ageing
Unfortunately I gave a few years ago my 83590 manuals away?
Best regards Rien
Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice

 

I took a look at the blockdiagram of my 83592, which differs only with an extra low band mixer,
The sweeper unit is a cascade of
a) YTO o/p 2.4-7.0GHz
b) amplifier
c) isolator
d) YTM (multiplier)
e) YTF
The most probable cause imho is tracking of the 3 YIG devices, at least that's my experience with the older 86290B which showed the same symptoms.
The tracking is done by opamp controlled current sources and can be caused by resistor ageing
Unfortunately I gave a few years ago my 83590 manuals away?
Best regards Rien
Re: HP 16500A Problems

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hello All,

Anyone know anything about the power supply made by the OECO Corporation 080-20521-01 that is used in the 16500A

I seem to have cured the initial fuse and mains trip blowing by changing out a couple of cracked capacitors and the mains filter on the input. The PSU now fires up, but the 'OVER CURRENT' led is flashing and while there are voltages on the output pins none of them are where they should be. ?There is about 70 volts on the 120 volt output. No signs of anything in distress on the board. While I've had a look I can't find too much information on the Internet, so any pointers would help.

Thanks.

--
Best regards,
?John ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?mailto:john@...
Re: HP 8970B noise figure meter with E18

 

Update: as I'm always suspicous about double faults, I checked the A4U1 mixer as far as I could and also the 300MHz amp. It turned out the 300MHz Filter was misaligned. After realigning, I got about the same level for the 20MHz and the 580MHz Signal at the output of the mixer.

Maybe someone tried to "repair" E18 by randomly playing with the most accessible alignments.

cheers
Martin
Re: 2401C Integrating Digital Voltmeter and 2410B AC - Ohms Converter

 

Hey Pat,

What good fortune to find you here. On behalf of many, thanks for your photo essay on the?and other fine HP instruments. Your work is no-doubt preserved as the screen saver or desktop image of choice by many HP fans. Maybe your?2410B might get the same treatment one fine day?

If I recall correctly, we once bought?HP 3460B digital voltmeters from the same source?

Re: "I'll need to fabricate some boards to integrate them, though, as they weren't a set and the 2401C is not equipped with the boards needed to let it talk to the 2410B".
Magic! You might be speaking of the A9 Units Coupling and the A3 Delay Gate boards. I'm not expecting to find those installed when I open the 2401C and will need to look at getting some PBCs made to order and share them with folk like yourself.?

I'd also like to have Option 29 Frequency Measurement to 1.2 MHz, so this is another PCB to be ordered and shared. If you have to go to extent of making option 29, then you might as well look at pushing the frequency.?

Please let me know if you were thinking of additional options.

I'll be re-producing the PCBs from images using the service manual as a reference, so there's no telling how long this might take.

Re: "Gotta love a full rack width, 20+ inch deep, 13-1/2" tall nearly 100 lb stack of gear that will measure DC and AC voltage, and resistance.? One of these years, in my spare time (so called because I have so little of it...)? Cool old boat anchors - it's nice to know others are keeping them alive, too.".?
Absolutely. HP certainly believed this when placing them prominently in a number of late 60's advertisements.?




Hello Dave,

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

It's amazing to hear that you keep both a 2401C and an working order?2402A. I've never heard of a 2402A for sale, so you have an?ultra rare part of HP history on your hands. Well done. I've seen two 2410Bs and one?2410A?on eBay in the last ten years and was lucky enough to win a?2410B.


Some of my Christmas leave will be devoted to at least getting the?2401C?operational and recalibrated. That and reproducing some PCBs to interface the 2401C and 2410B.


I apologise for a quality of the picture below (1. I'm no Patrick Manning, and 2. it was taken with an old phone just now) but if you've never seen a?2410B, my?2410B is between the 2401C?and the 3460B?at the bottom.



Let's stay in touch.?If you ever want some options for the?2401C,?I'm looking at reproducing some.

Kind regards,
Terry
Re: 2401C Integrating Digital Voltmeter and 2410B AC - Ohms Converter

 

I have also a set in the repair queue.? My 2401C sounds to be a bit older than yours, Terry, as it's the Dymec-labeled version, s/n 622-01154.? The 2410B is 644-01052, and despite having a lower serial number than yours, mine has an HP-labeled front panel.

I'll need to fabricate some boards to integrate them, though, as they weren't a set and the 2401C is not equipped with the boards needed to let it talk to the 2410B.

Gotta love a full rack width, 20+ inch deep, 13-1/2" tall nearly 100lb stack of gear that will measure DC and AC voltage, and resistance.? One of these years, in my spare time (so called because I have so little of it...)? Cool old boat anchors - it's nice to know others are keeping them alive, too.

Some photos of the 2401C are at?

-Pat

On December 13, 2019 at 6:37 PM Terry Gains <terry.waihi@...> wrote:

Who here, runs these find beasts?

My HP 2401C Integrating Digital Voltmeter (SN 811-02807 opt 21,31,146) and HP 2410B AC - Ohms Converter Dymec (SN 644-01126) are about to be restored, interconnected and calibrated.

They don't appear to have been mentioned in this forum before, but I'm betting someone out there is also keeping these in working order.

Incidentally, they are both in pristine condition, remarkable for their age, and the?2410B has a asset sticker from a previous owner, the NASA? Goddard Space Flight Center, which will be left on the instrument.?

Kind regards,
Terry

Re: 2401C Integrating Digital Voltmeter and 2410B AC - Ohms Converter

 

On 12/13/19 6:37 PM, Terry Gains wrote:
Who here, runs these find beasts?

My HP 2401C Integrating Digital Voltmeter (SN 811-02807 opt 21,31,146)
and HP 2410B AC - Ohms Converter Dymec (SN 644-01126) are about to be
restored, interconnected and calibrated.

They don't appear to have been mentioned in this forum before, but I'm
betting someone out there is also keeping these in working order.
I believe they are fairly rare. I have one, as yet untested, along
with what I believe is its successor, a 2402A. The 2402A works but is
beyond its calibration range, so I need to dig into it.

I hope I can get the 2401 working someday. I do have the service
manual, just need time.

I'd never even heard of the AC/Ohms converter. Neat!

Incidentally, they are both in pristine condition, remarkable for their
age, and the?2410B has a asset sticker from a previous owner, the
NASA?Goddard Space Flight Center, which will be left on the instrument.?
Nice, I used to live right down the street from there.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Using an 8903B to analyze power audio amp

 

Dan,

Yes, thank you. I was mistaken about the input impedance.
The 600 ohms is the output impedance of the internal signal source, can be also set to 50 ohms.

The input side on the left is 100K ohms. I looked at the amp I want to analyze, the NAD 2600, and the two output channels do have a common chassis ground for left and right.
This amp can be bridged into one mono amp in which case the Right Red jack become (+) and the Left Red jack becomes (-) and I believe in this case I would have to use the float switches on the 8903B.

--Victor
Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Mark

So to get you started

firstly you say the manual you have is not good most of us use ARTEK manuals as our fist call for a PDF

as the owner is one of us and is recognised as doing good scans

?

?

HP Manuals, Updated: 2 February 2019

(Please allow a few seconds for the data-base to load..when ready a SEARCH box will appear below)

Show? 10 25 50 100 ?entries

Search:

MANUFACTURER

MODEL NUMBER

CONTENT

SCHEMATICS

PART NUMBER

DOWNLOAD PRICE

NOTES

?

?

Hewlett Packard

83590A

Operating, Service

YES

83590-90005

$12.50

full size up to 34 x22 scans

?

I assume you have the manual for the 8350? if not you should get one? please note there is an A and a B and they are different

Your best tool is to make an extender to work on the plug in out of the 8350 Frame ???use screened cables lines when it has screened cables

?

Being an old Fart I print out the text and the drawings as I can repair an item quicker with it on paper ?

?

Sorry but not had to repair one yet?? if it is the same as the 2 to 18 in the 8620 it will use a yig multiplier? and this might not be tracking correctly

?

Paul

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark Bielman
Sent: 14 December 2019 03:01
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8350B w/83590A repair advice

?

Hi group. Have this coming and see quite a few references to (at least) the 8350B.
Anyone have interest in helping me repair it?

Symptom is very low output below 10GHz and next to nothing above that.
No doubt problem is with the plug in. Maybe the power amp module. (?)

1st to check: AUX OUT as this is a sample of the YIG, 2 to 7 GHz I believe. (0 dBm)

The manual (pdf) from Keysight isn't good at all. Bought one off e-scam. We'll see.

Those plug-ins look packed tight!

Cheers!

Mark in Oregon

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8350B w/83590A repair advice

 

Hi group. Have this coming and see quite a few references to (at least) the 8350B.
Anyone have interest in helping me repair it?

Symptom is very low output below 10GHz and next to nothing above that.
No doubt problem is with the plug in. Maybe the power amp module. (?)

1st to check: AUX OUT as this is a sample of the YIG, 2 to 7 GHz I believe. (0 dBm)

The manual (pdf) from Keysight isn't good at all. Bought one off e-scam. We'll see.

Those plug-ins look packed tight!

Cheers!

Mark in Oregon
Have probes - but need matching grounding clips and grabbers

 

Hi,

This is probably a common problem...

I have a stash of nice HP probes but without grounding clips or
grabbers. My challenge is identifying and finding the right
corresponding accessories (I'm a bit of a noob).

The probes I have are:
* 10017A
* 3 x 10006D (one of which has a grounding C-clip but nothing that
screws on to its other end)
* 10041A

Does anyone have any pointers to corresponding type of clip/grabber?

Thanks
--Toby
Re: Dead 54720D

 

On 12/13/19 7:14 PM, Ovidiu Popa [Business] wrote:
Ok, so if everything fails, I will try building a 54717A calibration plugin.
?
I found in the 54720A service manual the 54717A schematic. The signal
path... doesn't exist! It's only two coax cables (obviously equal in
length) between the front input and trigger N connectors, and the back
coax connectors. There is a limiter on each cable, which I'm confident
it can be skipped for now.
?
The whole shtick is to have the plugin report "54717A" to the mainframe,
otherwise the mainframe cal routine won't start. I have a couple of
54712A pluging that I am barely using, and I'm willing to temporary hack
one for this project.?
?
So the whole id and other information is on a HN58C65 EEPROM in SOP-28.
I need a SOP-28 to DIP adapter, then read the content with a standard
Willem programmer. Hack the content (I can't imagine the model string is
encrypted). Re-solder the chip on the 54712A board, disconnect the
internal signal path and replace with two cables as described and with a
bit of luck I'll have a clone of the unobtanium 54717A. Calibrate,
restore the EEPROM from a backup, wire back the 54712A signal path and
everything is back, but with a now calibrated 54720D.
Good plan. Please document that EEPROM format, if it's convenient to
do so.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Dead 54720D

 

Ok, so if everything fails, I will try building a 54717A calibration plugin.
?
I found in the 54720A service manual the 54717A schematic. The signal path... doesn't exist! It's only two coax cables (obviously equal in length) between the front input and trigger N connectors, and the back coax connectors. There is a limiter on each cable, which I'm confident it can be skipped for now.
?
The whole shtick is to have the plugin report "54717A" to the mainframe, otherwise the mainframe cal routine won't start. I have a couple of 54712A pluging that I am barely using, and I'm willing to temporary hack one for this project.?
?
So the whole id and other information is on a HN58C65 EEPROM in SOP-28. I need a SOP-28 to DIP adapter, then read the content with a standard Willem programmer. Hack the content (I can't imagine the model string is encrypted). Re-solder the chip on the 54712A board, disconnect the internal signal path and replace with two cables as described and with a bit of luck I'll have a clone of the unobtanium 54717A. Calibrate, restore the EEPROM from a backup, wire back the 54712A signal path and everything is back, but with a now calibrated 54720D.
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