Re: HP8568B manual quality
On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 09:16 PM, Lou Blasco wrote:
Has anyone purchased HP8568B manuals from Artek and if so are the circuits better image quality than the attached example?
In my experience, Dave's (ArtekManuals') scans are as good as they get. He is dependent on the quality of his original though, which cannot always be a good quality printed version. If you email him and specify an example page, I'm pretty sure he'll give a specific and clear response. Raymond
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Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
On 2/22/22 16:32, Jeff Anderson wrote: I remember designing with PALs, GALs, and CPLDs back in the 80's.? Great for reducing the number of SSI TTL chips on a board, but they were power-hogs, if I recall correctly. That didn't last long, fortunately. I did the programming for various designs with ABEL, PALASM, and CUPL. Don't recall their syntax any longer, though. I use PALASM today, for when I need PALs/GALs. It's great...simple, fast, no fluff, no BS, predictable. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
I remember designing with PALs, GALs, and CPLDs back in the 80's.? Great for reducing the number of SSI TTL chips on a board, but they were power-hogs, if I recall correctly.
I did the programming for various designs with ABEL, PALASM, and CUPL.? Don't recall their syntax any longer, though.
- Jeff, k6jca
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Re: HP8568B manual quality
I print schematics on a D sized plotter. The schematics from Artek manuals are always excellent quality and print clearly without dropouts or fuzzed lines, even when enlarged.
Well worth the very modest cost.
Paul
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On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 01:04:44PM -0800, Glydeck via groups.io wrote: All of the manuals I’ve purchased from Artek are much better than your example.
George
On Feb 22, 2022, at 12:16 PM, Lou Blasco <vk3alb@...> wrote:
?
Hi,
Has anyone purchased HP8568B manuals from Artek and if so are the circuits better image quality than the attached example?
Regards
Lou
VK3ALB
!DSPAM:62154ff99601493514534!
--
Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Manchester MI, USA
Aurora Group of Michigan, LLC | Security, Systems & Software
paul@... | Unix/Linux - We don't do windows
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Re: HP8568B manual quality
Thanks George,
That's what I was hoping to hear.
--
Regards
Lou
VK3ALB
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Re: HP8568B manual quality
All of the manuals I’ve purchased from Artek are much better than your example.
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On Feb 22, 2022, at 12:16 PM, Lou Blasco <vk3alb@...> wrote:
? Hi, Has anyone purchased HP8568B manuals from Artek and if so are the circuits better image quality than the attached example?
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Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
True, a shift register may be all you can get.? Making a counter can be more difficult because you may not have access to the preset lines on the flipflops.
I skipped from the 22V10 directly to CPLDs.? I had designs that I couldn't do in PALS.
Harvey
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On 2/22/2022 3:14 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: On 2/22/22 14:04, Harvey White wrote:
PALs are combinational logic, such as (using address lines)? A4 and A3 and not A2 and A1 and not A0.
To decode serial data, you need flip-flops, some storage to convert serial to parallel and then act on that.
CPLD's can do that, but with most PAL chips, depending on what's internal, it would be difficult.
Generally, PALs are used to decode address lines to enable a specific chip. ? No.? The very earliest PALs, like PAL16L8 etc, are combinatorial. But shortly thereafter, 16R8 (etc), the 'R' meaning "Registered", appeared.? These are sequential logic devices that store state and have feedback terms.? Still later, the 16V8 etc, (the 'V' meaning "Variable" or "Versatile", depending on who you ask) have still greater functionality.? It's easy to implement something like a shift register using PALs and nothing else.
???????????? -Dave
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Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
On 2/22/22 15:26, Wilko Bulte wrote: 16V8 etc were GAL, not PAL, devices. Erasable, and more flexible architecturally than PAL devices. The terms are used interchangeably all over the industry, just like the chips. Used them when I did my first hardware design (professionally I mean). Shows my age I suppose :-/ Yup. Which means you know what you're talking about. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
16V8 etc were GAL, not PAL, devices. Erasable, and more flexible architecturally than PAL devices.
Used them when I did my first hardware design (professionally I mean). Shows my age I suppose :-/
Wilko
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Hi, Has anyone purchased HP8568B manuals from Artek and if so are the circuits better image quality than the attached example?
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PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
On 2/22/22 14:04, Harvey White wrote: PALs are combinational logic, such as (using address lines)? A4 and A3 and not A2 and A1 and not A0.
To decode serial data, you need flip-flops, some storage to convert serial to parallel and then act on that.
CPLD's can do that, but with most PAL chips, depending on what's internal, it would be difficult.
Generally, PALs are used to decode address lines to enable a specific chip. No. The very earliest PALs, like PAL16L8 etc, are combinatorial. But shortly thereafter, 16R8 (etc), the 'R' meaning "Registered", appeared. These are sequential logic devices that store state and have feedback terms. Still later, the 16V8 etc, (the 'V' meaning "Variable" or "Versatile", depending on who you ask) have still greater functionality. It's easy to implement something like a shift register using PALs and nothing else. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Points that way.
Harvey
On 2/22/2022 2:21 PM, Lothar baier
wrote:
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That’s what I thought so the use of a PAL
would point towards the control interface indeed being a
parallel interface and not serial
?
Sent from for Windows
?
?
PALs are combinational logic, such as (using address lines)?
A4 and A3 and not A2 and A1 and not A0.
To decode serial data, you need flip-flops, some storage to
convert serial to parallel and then act on that.
CPLD's can do that, but with most PAL chips, depending on
what's internal, it would be difficult.
Generally, PALs are used to decode address lines to enable a
specific chip.
Harvey
?
On 2/22/2022 1:26 PM, Lothar baier wrote:
I know it is labeled RS232 but
unfortunately that does not mean a regular RS232 Cable can
be used , I looked through the service manual for the 8340B
and it indicates the pin numbers on the rear panel connector
of the 8340 but it refers to control bit numbers which would
indicate a parallel port rather than serial , also the 8516
service manual indicates that the pins are connected to a
PAL on the doubler control board , I am a RF not a digital
guy but I don’t think you can use a PAL as a serial decoder
?
Sent from for Windows
?
?
On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 07:20 AM, Lothar
baier wrote:
08516-60009
You might a standard RS232 cable. It's
labeled "CABLE
ASSEMBLY, RS232" in the 8516A S-Parameter Test Set
Operating and Service Manual.
-George
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Looking at the 8340 manual it states that PIN4/10/11/17 are used and corresponding to control bits 3/1/0/2? on the testset , I was looking at the 8516 manual and it shows 4 wires from the rear panel connector running to the A5 Doubler control
ending up in a PAL that decodes the adress to control filters , no control bit designation is given !
So the main challenge would be to figure out the pins on the testset side ,? since this is all logic stuff I don’t think there is a risk to just rigging up a 1-1 cable using DB25 connectors and try it
?
Sent from for Windows
?
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From: n8zmTWH via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 1:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
?
To start with, the 8516 test set does not use a serial communications scheme. The cable is most likely a parallel cable. Why it was specified as RS-232 is strange, unless the
thought was that those were very common so a couple of crossed wires (pins 2 & 3 as I recall) were anticipated. Or, they simply did not use those pins since I doubt they needed 25 conductors anyway. This is based on my experience with the 8753 test sets, however,.
?
?
PALs are combinational logic, such as (using address lines)? A4 and A3 and not A2 and A1 and not A0.
To decode serial data, you need flip-flops, some storage to convert serial to parallel and then act on that.
CPLD's can do that, but with most PAL chips, depending on what's internal, it would be difficult.
Generally, PALs are used to decode address lines to enable a specific chip.
Harvey
?
On 2/22/2022 1:26 PM, Lothar baier wrote:
I know it is labeled RS232 but unfortunately that does not mean a regular RS232 Cable can be used , I looked through the service manual for the 8340B and it indicates the pin numbers on the rear panel connector of the 8340 but it refers
to control bit numbers which would indicate a parallel port rather than serial , also the 8516 service manual indicates that the pins are connected to a PAL on the doubler control board , I am a RF not a digital guy but I don’t think you can use a PAL as a
serial decoder
?
Sent from for Windows
?
?
On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 07:20 AM, Lothar baier wrote:
08516-60009
You might a standard RS232 cable. It's labeled "CABLE ASSEMBLY, RS232" in the 8516A S-Parameter Test Set Operating and Service Manual.
-George
|
To start with, the 8516 test set does not use a serial communications scheme. The cable is most likely a parallel cable. Why it was specified as RS-232 is strange, unless the thought was that those were very common so a couple of crossed wires (pins 2 & 3 as I recall) were anticipated. Or, they simply did not use those pins since I doubt they needed 25 conductors anyway. This is based on my experience with the 8753 test sets, however,. ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Harvey White
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 2:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question? PALs are combinational logic, such as (using address lines)? A4 and A3 and not A2 and A1 and not A0. To decode serial data, you need flip-flops, some storage to convert serial to parallel and then act on that. CPLD's can do that, but with most PAL chips, depending on what's internal, it would be difficult. Generally, PALs are used to decode address lines to enable a specific chip. Harvey ? On 2/22/2022 1:26 PM, Lothar baier wrote: I know it is labeled RS232 but unfortunately that does not mean a regular RS232 Cable can be used , I looked through the service manual for the 8340B and it indicates the pin numbers on the rear panel connector of the 8340 but it refers to control bit numbers which would indicate a parallel port rather than serial , also the 8516 service manual indicates that the pins are connected to a PAL on the doubler control board , I am a RF not a digital guy but I don’t think you can use a PAL as a serial decoder ? Sent from for Windows ? ? On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 07:20 AM, Lothar baier wrote: 08516-60009
You might a standard RS232 cable. It's labeled "CABLE ASSEMBLY, RS232" in the 8516A S-Parameter Test Set Operating and Service Manual.
-George
|
That’s what I thought so the use of a PAL would point towards the control interface indeed being a parallel interface and not serial
?
Sent from for Windows
?
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From: Harvey White via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 1:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
?
PALs are combinational logic, such as (using address lines)? A4 and A3 and not A2 and A1 and not A0.
To decode serial data, you need flip-flops, some storage to convert serial to parallel and then act on that.
CPLD's can do that, but with most PAL chips, depending on what's internal, it would be difficult.
Generally, PALs are used to decode address lines to enable a specific chip.
Harvey
?
On 2/22/2022 1:26 PM, Lothar baier wrote:
I know it is labeled RS232 but unfortunately that does not mean a regular RS232 Cable can be used , I looked through the service manual for the 8340B and it indicates the pin numbers on the rear panel connector of the 8340 but it refers
to control bit numbers which would indicate a parallel port rather than serial , also the 8516 service manual indicates that the pins are connected to a PAL on the doubler control board , I am a RF not a digital guy but I don’t think you can use a PAL as a
serial decoder
?
Sent from for Windows
?
?
On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 07:20 AM, Lothar baier wrote:
08516-60009
You might a standard RS232 cable. It's labeled "CABLE ASSEMBLY, RS232" in the 8516A S-Parameter Test Set Operating and Service Manual.
-George
|
PALs are combinational logic, such as (using address lines)? A4
and A3 and not A2 and A1 and not A0.
To decode serial data, you need flip-flops, some storage to
convert serial to parallel and then act on that.
CPLD's can do that, but with most PAL chips, depending on what's
internal, it would be difficult.
Generally, PALs are used to decode address lines to enable a
specific chip.
Harvey
On 2/22/2022 1:26 PM, Lothar baier
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I know it is labeled RS232 but
unfortunately that does not mean a regular RS232 Cable can be
used , I looked through the service manual for the 8340B and
it indicates the pin numbers on the rear panel connector of
the 8340 but it refers to control bit numbers which would
indicate a parallel port rather than serial , also the 8516
service manual indicates that the pins are connected to a PAL
on the doubler control board , I am a RF not a digital guy but
I don’t think you can use a PAL as a serial decoder
?
Sent from for Windows
?
?
On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 07:20 AM, Lothar
baier wrote:
08516-60009
You might a standard RS232 cable. It's
labeled "CABLE
ASSEMBLY, RS232" in the 8516A S-Parameter Test Set
Operating and Service Manual.
-George
|
Re: HP 8662A Keycap "BACK SPACE" needed
Thanks for looking. If I should not find the right one in the next few weeks, maybe one with a different print from Your keyboard fits?
Best regards
Peter
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The 8566B is not a standard Beast.
The power supply voltages are specified to a much higher accuracy than most instruments you would encounter, and for a reason.
For example, the +22V rail is specified for +-20mV, and the 20V rail for +-1mV.
First, make sure you use a very accurate DMM (the manual calls for using an HP3456A 6.5 digits DMM).
Second, your +22V rail is completely out of spec.
Obviously, adjusting the supplies is only the first step, and it will change the calibration of the instrument which is not an easy thing to correct, and requires equipment that you may or may not have.
I am not an expert on the YTO unlock problem, but I do know that everything has to be just right to make the YTO happy. You will not get far unless all rails are within specs!
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I know it is labeled RS232 but unfortunately that does not mean a regular RS232 Cable can be used , I looked through the service manual for the 8340B and it indicates the pin numbers on the rear panel connector of the 8340 but it refers
to control bit numbers which would indicate a parallel port rather than serial , also the 8516 service manual indicates that the pins are connected to a PAL on the doubler control board , I am a RF not a digital guy but I don’t think you can use a PAL as a
serial decoder
?
Sent from for Windows
?
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Show quoted text
From: gk5220 via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 10:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
?
On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 07:20 AM, Lothar baier wrote:
08516-60009
You might a standard RS232 cable. It's labeled "CABLE ASSEMBLY, RS232" in the 8516A S-Parameter Test Set Operating and Service Manual.
-George
|
On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 07:20 AM, Lothar baier wrote:
08516-60009
You might a standard RS232 cable. It's labeled " CABLE ASSEMBLY, RS232" in the 8516A S-Parameter Test Set Operating and Service Manual.
-George
|
Dave McGuire
Glydeck
