From: "zentronics42" <Zentronics42@...>
To: "HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 4:19:06 PM
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

I will toss in at least 2 pennies worth as I would be just coming out of being
considered one of the kids. I still work with high school students in vocation
programs and definitely can tell things are alive and well. But here is a few
points The current generation has been told FAR to often that "this is for some
one else not for you" way to often, My self included to be honest. There was a
shift from "go figure it out" to "that is too dangerous" I am the only person I
know of with in 400 miles that is willing to work on vacuum tube equipment due
to the high voltages involved. I have run in to many that are terrified of
dying touching 12Vdc. Let alone 21KVdc of an anode discharge tube in a CRT
scope.

To that end I even started a you tube channel linked in to show people how to
spin up a lab from scratch. But if some one young is told to often "that is too
dangerous" they start to believe it. This is true for anything Voltage is high
HV or HP circuits. As well as chemicals needed to facilitate board making at
home.

Yes the channel is Tek equipment heavy but I would like to get some more HP gear
on there as well but I don’t know where to start.

Youtube Channel for test equipment repair -


Zen

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
<[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 4:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap
Meet Returns!

On 3/18/22 16:42, Lothar baier wrote:

*Currently there are many online circuit simulators and test equipment
interfaces ( Not sure about online but many software companies started
to offer hobbyist or non commercial licenses for their tools at very
low cost )

There are many, both online and real software. Most of the world's circuit
simulation software has been free effectively forever. Much of it derives from
SPICE, which has been public domain since day one.
(1973) Of course there have always been corporations popping up charging people
for things that the rest of the world gets for free, as always.

One very handy one for more practical/less academic work is the Falstad circuit
simulator, originally written as a browser-based Java applet but it has been
packaged for sane standalone use (i.e., not in a web browser) too. Very handy.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

*Currently there are many online circuit simulators and test equipment
interfaces ( Not sure about online but many software companies started
to offer hobbyist or non commercial licenses for their tools at very
low cost )

?

Hi,

?

The only? fix is to have the correct output from the 8340-41! The older source label says 8410B-C Interface and they mean it. We need the Auxiliary Interface like the 83621A dedicated sweeper? for the 8510C which might be documented in the service manual.?

THANK YOU - My sentiment exactly.
Quoting Dave McGuire <mcguire@...>:

> This is an amazing story.? I wonder if it would make any sense to?
> try to get some of these kids onto this list.? Too many young people?
> fall into the trap of believing a $30 "nano" oscilloscope from China?
> is better than a real instrument because it's newer.? Given the?
> typical modern consumer upbringing, this is reasonable.? But we?
> could teach people like this why things don't really work that way.
>
>? In fact, I'd go so far as to say that we have a responsibility to do so.
>
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave
>
> On 3/18/22 09:58, William Ray via groups.io wrote:
>> Not to prolong the off-topic, but perhaps to move it in a more?
>> positive direction, I will direct your attention to recently?
>> published patent:
>>
>> WO 2022/040182
>>
>> You can find it with Google.
>>
>> There's nothing in there that most, or perhaps all of the members?
>> here couldn't accomplish, it's almost all digital (though wringing?
>> the analog gremlins out of the power supply system sufficiently?
>> well to avoid false triggering took quite a lot of time on the?
>> 'scope), and most of the work was done on a Tek scope (but a couple?
>> Agilent MSOs, and a HP 54201d and 16702a that they fixed up also?
>> participated), but...
>>
>> Essentially /all/ of the electronics design and development work?
>> described here, was conducted by a series of High School Junior or?
>> Senior research-capstone students.? ?The very first version was?
>> developed by an Ohio State University computer-science Junior, but?
>> it kept catching on fire (literally), so the first HS student who?
>> worked on it essentially redeveloped it piece-by piece from scratch.
>>
>> Dear (Brown haired) Sydney 1.0 came into the lab not knowing how to?
>> solder, and left a year later a grizzled veteran of chasing a vast?
>> amount of magic smoke, and with sufficient chops to dive into the?
>> Tek scope and fix it without being prompted when it crapped out (it?
>> wasn't a major problem - a simultaneous power supply and?
>> LCD-backlight issue, but I will be forever impressed with her?
>> tenacity and attitude - that young lady is unstoppable).
>>
>> (Green-haired) Sydney 2.0 came into the lab a year later with a bit?
>> more pre-existing electronics knowledge (high-school robotics?
>> club), and decided to scrap the entire thru-hole/point-to-point?
>> system, learned how to design multilayer PCBs (on her own), then?
>> re-developed the entire thing as a monolithic, primarily?
>> surface-mount system.? She also orchestrated another group of?
>> students to develop more useful software to perform medical?
>> neuromuscular assessments.
>>
>> I'm a physicist.? I helped the students by pointing them to?
>> resources like data sheets for shift-buffers when they had?
>> questions like "how the heck are we going to get the input from 512?
>> switches into 2 pins on an Arduino???".? And I coached Sydney 1.0?
>> through episodes of "Dr. Ray, it's hard to tell because of Taumer's?
>> (original Computer-Sci student) spaghetti wiring, but I'm almost?
>> certain this wire is a dead short between the power rail for the?
>> Hall-effect sensors and the ground on the shift buffers - what?
>> should I do?? Well, let's take it out and see what happens.? Oooh -?
>> I knew that wire over there was hot, but now it's glowing!"?
>> situations, but /they/ did this.? In High School.? ?I'm willing to?
>> bet that not many of the people suggesting that the kids are not?
>> all right, were designing and developing patentable devices when?
>> they were in HS.
>>
>> Will Ray
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> New Kensington, PA
>
>
>

This is an amazing story. I wonder if it would make any sense to try to get some of these kids onto this list. Too many young people fall into the trap of believing a $30 "nano" oscilloscope from China is better than a real instrument because it's newer. Given the typical modern consumer upbringing, this is reasonable. But we could teach people like this why things don't really work that way.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that we have a responsibility to do so.

-Dave

On 3/18/22 09:58, William Ray via groups.io wrote:

Not to prolong the off-topic, but perhaps to move it in a more positive direction, I will direct your attention to recently published patent:

WO 2022/040182

You can find it with Google.

There's nothing in there that most, or perhaps all of the members here couldn't accomplish, it's almost all digital (though wringing the analog gremlins out of the power supply system sufficiently well to avoid false triggering took quite a lot of time on the 'scope), and most of the work was done on a Tek scope (but a couple Agilent MSOs, and a HP 54201d and 16702a that they fixed up also participated), but...

Essentially /all/ of the electronics design and development work described here, was conducted by a series of High School Junior or Senior research-capstone students.? ?The very first version was developed by an Ohio State University computer-science Junior, but it kept catching on fire (literally), so the first HS student who worked on it essentially redeveloped it piece-by piece from scratch.

Dear (Brown haired) Sydney 1.0 came into the lab not knowing how to solder, and left a year later a grizzled veteran of chasing a vast amount of magic smoke, and with sufficient chops to dive into the Tek scope and fix it without being prompted when it crapped out (it wasn't a major problem - a simultaneous power supply and LCD-backlight issue, but I will be forever impressed with her tenacity and attitude - that young lady is unstoppable).

(Green-haired) Sydney 2.0 came into the lab a year later with a bit more pre-existing electronics knowledge (high-school robotics club), and decided to scrap the entire thru-hole/point-to-point system, learned how to design multilayer PCBs (on her own), then re-developed the entire thing as a monolithic, primarily surface-mount system.? She also orchestrated another group of students to develop more useful software to perform medical neuromuscular assessments.

I'm a physicist.? I helped the students by pointing them to resources like data sheets for shift-buffers when they had questions like "how the heck are we going to get the input from 512 switches into 2 pins on an Arduino???".? And I coached Sydney 1.0 through episodes of "Dr. Ray, it's hard to tell because of Taumer's (original Computer-Sci student) spaghetti wiring, but I'm almost certain this wire is a dead short between the power rail for the Hall-effect sensors and the ground on the shift buffers - what should I do?? Well, let's take it out and see what happens.? Oooh - I knew that wire over there was hot, but now it's glowing!" situations, but /they/ did this.? In High School.? ?I'm willing to bet that not many of the people suggesting that the kids are not all right, were designing and developing patentable devices when they were in HS.

Will Ray

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

?

I am using an 8340B, I checked the firmware was new enough when I bought it, but now I don't know the keys to display it again. Yes the DB25 cable is connected, without this I would have no response at all above 20GHz.

Not to prolong the off-topic, but perhaps to move it in a more positive direction, I will direct your attention to recently published patent:
WO 2022/040182
You can find it with Google.
There's nothing in there that most, or perhaps all of the members here couldn't accomplish, it's almost all digital (though wringing the analog gremlins out of the power supply system sufficiently well to avoid false triggering took quite a lot of time on the 'scope), and most of the work was done on a Tek scope (but a couple Agilent MSOs, and a HP 54201d and 16702a that they fixed up also participated), but...
Essentially /all/ of the electronics design and development work described here, was conducted by a series of High School Junior or Senior research-capstone students.? ?The very first version was developed by an Ohio State University computer-science Junior, but it kept catching on fire (literally), so the first HS student who worked on it essentially redeveloped it piece-by piece from scratch.
Dear (Brown haired) Sydney 1.0 came into the lab not knowing how to solder, and left a year later a grizzled veteran of chasing a vast amount of magic smoke, and with sufficient chops to dive into the Tek scope and fix it without being prompted when it crapped out (it wasn't a major problem - a simultaneous power supply and LCD-backlight issue, but I will be forever impressed with her tenacity and attitude - that young lady is unstoppable).
(Green-haired) Sydney 2.0 came into the lab a year later with a bit more pre-existing electronics knowledge (high-school robotics club), and decided to scrap the entire thru-hole/point-to-point system, learned how to design multilayer PCBs (on her own), then re-developed the entire thing as a monolithic, primarily surface-mount system.? She also orchestrated another group of students to develop more useful software to perform medical neuromuscular assessments.
I'm a physicist.? I helped the students by pointing them to resources like data sheets for shift-buffers when they had questions like "how the heck are we going to get the input from 512 switches into 2 pins on an Arduino???".? And I coached Sydney 1.0 through episodes of "Dr. Ray, it's hard to tell because of Taumer's (original Computer-Sci student) spaghetti wiring, but I'm almost certain this wire is a dead short between the power rail for the Hall-effect sensors and the ground on the shift buffers - what should I do?? Well, let's take it out and see what happens.? Oooh - I knew that wire over there was hot, but now it's glowing!" situations, but /they/ did this.? In High School.? ?I'm willing to bet that not many of the people suggesting that the kids are not all right, were designing and developing patentable devices when they were in HS.
Will Ray

?

?

On Mar 18, 2022, at 10:13, John Griessen via groups.io <john@...> wrote:

?

On 3/17/22 21:00, Radu Bogdan Dicher wrote:
Ruben,
You're right, there's just two sweepers on that list, which complies with my original requirements.
But I decided to keep the list a bit "looser" than how I started it;

Some of the GPIB controlled synthesized generators could be "swept" in GPIB code...probably not as quickly or smoothly, but...then you can code the post processing to be whatever you want, and insert the results into a python lab notebook, etc.

I'm planning to use my 8657B that way. It goes to 2.1GHz.