Re: WTB: HP 8971B or advice
Reginald - I have an HP 8971C in good condition that I am considering selling. I'd like to connect off line to discuss. Where are you located?
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting "Reginald Beardsley via groups.io" <pulaskite@...>:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I recently got an 8970B & 346B from Pete. I'd like to add an 8971B to the system so I can cover the 2.4 & 5 GHz ISM bands.
There are some 8971Bs on ebay, but the the cheap ones are "untested, no returns". As I think all are aware the "untested" may or may not be true. This gets really questionable when the seller is xxxxx_test.
Does anyone have any advice to offer? Or better yet, one to sell.
Also, I have an 83631B. Can I use that as the LO instead of an 83630B? For the sake of repeatability I plan to run everything via GPIB and a program.
Thanks, Reg
Thanks, Reg
|
Re: HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board
To me they look like 200 K
1% resistors. I've used 'high accuracy' resistors 40 years agoo
that looked like that.
An ohm-meter would indicate the value, but they would have to be
unsoldered at one side.
If they were indicators, 200mH in that size is unlikely.
Arie
On 2020-04-27 21:22, n4buq wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have a 334A whose AUTO function is not working correctly. It seeks an initial null then drifts well off of that null.
I've been checking the voltages and waveforms on the A5 board and have bound TP5 is completely dead. I've checked everything I can think of so far and still haven't found it; however, in my exploration of that board, I found some components that don't appear to be on either of the schematics I have and not sure what they are. There are a few of them and in two cases, they're tied from collector to base for two of the transistors.
I'm attempting to attach pictures that show these parts but if that fails, I'll add these to an album. If they do come through, I'm talking about the darker brown components that look a bit like a resistor but are marked a bit differently (e.g. red black black orange brown. My presumption that is 200,000 with the brown being a tolerance or tempco indicator but don't know.
Anyone recognize these?
BTW, the serial number prefix for mine is 1140A and one of the manuals I have is valid for the serial number; however, I'm not sure if there may be some Service Notes that may have included those parts. I have a lot of microfiche and the index for the 334A mentions quite a few updates that are not part of a manual (at least I don't think they are). Unfortunately, the only microfiche I have is a 1972 version so it's quite a bit older than mine.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
|
Re: HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board
Okay, Ed. Given the measurements I'm seeing across them, that would make sense and I can ignore those for now as they're most likely not at the root of the problem with A5-TP5.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Breya via groups.io" <edbreya@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 3:00:54 PM Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board
Those are 1% tolerance resistors. Using all four bands your 200,000 number is correct in ohms. The last brown is for 1%.? Ed
|
Re: HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board
Hi Pat,
That was my initial thinking as well and, since they don't measure low ohms, then they're either not inductors or they're burned out. Given that I don't think any of them check low like that, then I'm thinking they may not be inductors.
In the microfiche index, some of the service note documents elude to something installed to help eliminate oscillations in some circuits and that made me suspect they're caps; however, with no more to go on than that, I'm still unsure.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Manning" <pbmanning@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:49:12 PM Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board
Barry -
Maybe do a quick check with an ohmmeter? If they're inductors they should be near shorts at DC.
-Pat
On April 27, 2020 at 3:43 PM n4buq <n4buq@... mailto:n4buq@... > wrote:
Hi Pat,
I wondered if they're inductors or capacitors. I'm not sure that style of capacitor was around at that time so an inductor makes sense.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Patrick Manning" <pbmanning@... > > mailto:pbmanning@... >
To: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:40:59 PM Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board
Barry -
Those appear to be axial inductors - 20mH, 1% if I'm reading them correctly.
-Pat
> > > On April 27, 2020 at 3:22 PM n4buq <n4buq@... > > > mailto:n4buq@...
mailto:n4buq@... mailto:n4buq@... > wrote:
I have a 334A whose AUTO function is not working correctly. It seeks an initial null then drifts well off of that null.
I've been checking the voltages and waveforms on the A5 board and have bound TP5 is completely dead. I've checked everything I can think of so far and still haven't found it; however, in my exploration of that board, I found some components that don't appear to be on either of the schematics I have and not sure what they are. There are a few of them and in two cases, they're tied from collector to base for two of the transistors.
I'm attempting to attach pictures that show these parts but if that fails, I'll add these to an album. If they do come through, I'm talking about the darker brown components that look a bit like a resistor but are marked a bit differently (e.g. red black black orange brown. My presumption that is 200,000 with the brown being a tolerance or tempco indicator but don't know.
Anyone recognize these?
BTW, the serial number prefix for mine is 1140A and one of the manuals I have is valid for the serial number; however, I'm not sure if there may be some Service Notes that may have included those parts. I have a lot of microfiche and the index for the 334A mentions quite a few updates that are not part of a manual (at least I don't think they are). Unfortunately, the only microfiche I have is a 1972 version so it's quite a bit older than mine.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
> > > --------------------------------------------- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#105647): /g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/message/105647 Mute This Topic: /mt/73312121/308147 Group Owner: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] Unsubscribe: /g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/leave/defanged [pbmanning@... mailto:pbmanning@... ] ---------------------------------------------
|
Re: HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board
Those are 1% tolerance resistors. Using all four bands your 200,000 number is correct in ohms. The last brown is for 1%.? Ed
|
Re: Are there any HP CRT refrenece documents?
On 2020-04-27 2:50 PM, Jeremy Nichols wrote: Here is a list I have compiled. It is nowhere near complete; I hope it is correct.
I've found that the installed part number can be different from the one specified in the service manual parts list or as options. Having "source" listed in such a list could be interesting. (e.g. "seen installed", "service manual", "not listed but tested ok", or option number). --Toby Jeremy
HP CRTs G-205E-2 ?175A Oscilloscope (P31) The following all carry the first four digits "5083-" 0353 130C Oscilloscope 0722 132A Oscilloscope (dual gun) 0652 140A Oscilloscope 9093 140T Oscilloscope 1452 141A Storage Oscilloscope 2587 141T Storage Oscilloscope 2511 141T Storage Oscilloscope 1752 143A Oscilloscope (P31) 1722 143A Oscilloscope (P2) 1751 143A Oscilloscope (P?) 1732 143A Oscilloscope (P7) 1442 143A Oscilloscope (P11) 0842 H30-175A Oscilloscope, high writing-rate CRT 3552 1740A Oscilloscope 5070 1741A Storage Oscilloscope 9023 180E Oscilloscope 1952 181T Storage Oscilloscope 5791 8510 Network Analyzer 3975 Unknown, seen for sale on eBay 1875 Unknown, eBay rectangular 6589 Unknown, eBay rectangular 5732 Unknown, eBay rectangular 6577 Unknown, eBay rectangular 5751 Unknown, eBay rectangular 5723 Unknown, eBay rectangular
On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 11:08 AM walter shawlee <walter2@... <mailto:walter2@...>> wrote:
With Tektronix, there is both a detailed CRT data dump, and a "used in" index for CRTs, but I have never found anything similar for HP.? does anyone know of any hp CRT reference data out there?? any info appreciated, as I have failed to find any for 30+ years. It seems like it must exist but I just don't know how to fin dit.
best regards, walter (walter2 -at- sphere.bc.ca <>) sphere research corp.
|
Re: HP 4195A NiCad Battery replacement
Yes - I know about the battery and found a replacement. It is a NiCad 2.4v (2 cell). Not so sure about the NiMH replacement though - can you outline the argument against please? Quoting Fr¨¦d¨¦ric BARTOLI <fred.bartoli@...>: HI guys,
Quite a few years back I got an HP4194A dead (not booting). It 's exactly the same chassis/cpu as the 4195A that I have a pair too. When I got it, it appeared that the CPU board battery was dead, and HP carefully designed a circuit that could not start on a dead battery.
Damn HP, but wait... The seller was a few km from me, so I paid him a visit to see how the unit managed to not start... Blank screen sounded good to me. I tried to make him end the auction early but he insisted on having the auction go to it's end.
The auction was starting at Eur300, and I got it for Eur350 IIRC. What I never told the seller is that I was ready to pay Eur1700 for him to end it early... (those units are expensive and I really wanted it)
Then troubleshooting was 2-3 hours (had to reverse that bit of CPU board part) and a one hour trip to the next all-kind-of-batteries-seller. Not so damn HP :-)
Now back to the battery question, I can't remember if it was a lithium or NiCd one, but it was a very common one and I could easily find a replacement one and you should too. Just don't replace the NiCd with NiMH, but I guess you know that.
Thanks, Fred
It is a 2.4v NiCad (2 cell).
|
Re: HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board
Barry - Maybe do a quick check with an ohmmeter?? If they're inductors they should be near shorts at DC. -Pat
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On April 27, 2020 at 3:43 PM n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
Hi Pat,
I wondered if they're inductors or capacitors. I'm not sure that style of capacitor was around at that time so an inductor makes sense.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
----- Original Message -----From: "Patrick Manning" <pbmanning@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:40:59 PM Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board
Barry -
Those appear to be axial inductors - 20mH, 1% if I'm reading them correctly.
-PatOn April 27, 2020 at 3:22 PM n4buq <n4buq@... mailto:n4buq@... > wrote:
I have a 334A whose AUTO function is not working correctly. It seeks an initial null then drifts well off of that null.
I've been checking the voltages and waveforms on the A5 board and have bound TP5 is completely dead. I've checked everything I can think of so far and still haven't found it; however, in my exploration of that board, I found some components that don't appear to be on either of the schematics I have and not sure what they are. There are a few of them and in two cases, they're tied from collector to base for two of the transistors.
I'm attempting to attach pictures that show these parts but if that fails, I'll add these to an album. If they do come through, I'm talking about the darker brown components that look a bit like a resistor but are marked a bit differently (e.g. red black black orange brown. My presumption that is 200,000 with the brown being a tolerance or tempco indicator but don't know.
Anyone recognize these?
BTW, the serial number prefix for mine is 1140A and one of the manuals I have is valid for the serial number; however, I'm not sure if there may be some Service Notes that may have included those parts. I have a lot of microfiche and the index for the 334A mentions quite a few updates that are not part of a manual (at least I don't think they are). Unfortunately, the only microfiche I have is a 1972 version so it's quite a bit older than mine.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#105647): /g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/message/105647 Mute This Topic: /mt/73312121/308147 Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: /g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/leave/defanged [pbmanning@...]
|
Re: HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board
Hi Pat,
I wondered if they're inductors or capacitors. I'm not sure that style of capacitor was around at that time so an inductor makes sense.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Manning" <pbmanning@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:40:59 PM Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board
Barry -
Those appear to be axial inductors - 20mH, 1% if I'm reading them correctly.
-Pat
On April 27, 2020 at 3:22 PM n4buq <n4buq@... mailto:n4buq@... > wrote:
I have a 334A whose AUTO function is not working correctly. It seeks an initial null then drifts well off of that null.
I've been checking the voltages and waveforms on the A5 board and have bound TP5 is completely dead. I've checked everything I can think of so far and still haven't found it; however, in my exploration of that board, I found some components that don't appear to be on either of the schematics I have and not sure what they are. There are a few of them and in two cases, they're tied from collector to base for two of the transistors.
I'm attempting to attach pictures that show these parts but if that fails, I'll add these to an album. If they do come through, I'm talking about the darker brown components that look a bit like a resistor but are marked a bit differently (e.g. red black black orange brown. My presumption that is 200,000 with the brown being a tolerance or tempco indicator but don't know.
Anyone recognize these?
BTW, the serial number prefix for mine is 1140A and one of the manuals I have is valid for the serial number; however, I'm not sure if there may be some Service Notes that may have included those parts. I have a lot of microfiche and the index for the 334A mentions quite a few updates that are not part of a manual (at least I don't think they are). Unfortunately, the only microfiche I have is a 1972 version so it's quite a bit older than mine.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
|
Re: HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On April 27, 2020 at 3:22 PM n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
I have a 334A whose AUTO function is not working correctly. It seeks an initial null then drifts well off of that null.
I've been checking the voltages and waveforms on the A5 board and have bound TP5 is completely dead. I've checked everything I can think of so far and still haven't found it; however, in my exploration of that board, I found some components that don't appear to be on either of the schematics I have and not sure what they are. There are a few of them and in two cases, they're tied from collector to base for two of the transistors.
I'm attempting to attach pictures that show these parts but if that fails, I'll add these to an album. If they do come through, I'm talking about the darker brown components that look a bit like a resistor but are marked a bit differently (e.g. red black black orange brown. My presumption that is 200,000 with the brown being a tolerance or tempco indicator but don't know.
Anyone recognize these?
BTW, the serial number prefix for mine is 1140A and one of the manuals I have is valid for the serial number; however, I'm not sure if there may be some Service Notes that may have included those parts. I have a lot of microfiche and the index for the 334A mentions quite a few updates that are not part of a manual (at least I don't think they are). Unfortunately, the only microfiche I have is a 1972 version so it's quite a bit older than mine.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
|
Re: HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board
Barry - Those appear to be axial inductors - 20mH, 1% if I'm reading them correctly. -Pat
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On April 27, 2020 at 3:22 PM n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:
I have a 334A whose AUTO function is not working correctly. It seeks an initial null then drifts well off of that null.
I've been checking the voltages and waveforms on the A5 board and have bound TP5 is completely dead. I've checked everything I can think of so far and still haven't found it; however, in my exploration of that board, I found some components that don't appear to be on either of the schematics I have and not sure what they are. There are a few of them and in two cases, they're tied from collector to base for two of the transistors.
I'm attempting to attach pictures that show these parts but if that fails, I'll add these to an album. If they do come through, I'm talking about the darker brown components that look a bit like a resistor but are marked a bit differently (e.g. red black black orange brown. My presumption that is 200,000 with the brown being a tolerance or tempco indicator but don't know.
Anyone recognize these?
BTW, the serial number prefix for mine is 1140A and one of the manuals I have is valid for the serial number; however, I'm not sure if there may be some Service Notes that may have included those parts. I have a lot of microfiche and the index for the 334A mentions quite a few updates that are not part of a manual (at least I don't think they are). Unfortunately, the only microfiche I have is a 1972 version so it's quite a bit older than mine.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
|
Re: Semiconductor test set advice
I've been watching the uTracer 6 development but was not aware of the other two.
I eventually need to sell off a bunch of NOS tubes of Dad's including a bunch of VT-211s. Not keen on building a 1500 V supply though to test those. I bought a military Hickock tester (TU-7/B ???), but have not started on the chore of even making a full inventory. Just sorting them took several days.
I forget the tube designation but I've got over 100 of what is basically a 6L6 with 3 V filaments which were used in aircraft intercom systems. I might need to design a guitar amp around a pair of those so I can sell them at good prices.
Sadly I've not found the 5U4Gs. I know he had a bunch because i helped look for them when we needed one to fix the TV. People pay crazy prices for them when a silicon diode would be better.
|
Re: HP 4195A NiCad Battery replacement
HI guys,
Quite a few years back I got an HP4194A dead (not booting). It 's exactly the same chassis/cpu as the 4195A that I have a pair too. When I got it, it appeared that the CPU board battery was dead, and HP carefully designed a circuit that could not start on a dead battery.
Damn HP, but wait... The seller was a few km from me, so I paid him a visit to see how the unit managed to not start... Blank screen sounded good to me. I tried to make him end the auction early but he insisted on having the auction go to it's end.
The auction was starting at Eur300, and I got it for Eur350 IIRC. What I never told the seller is that I was ready to pay Eur1700 for him to end it early... (those units are expensive and I really wanted it)?
Then troubleshooting was 2-3 hours (had to reverse that bit of CPU board part) and a one hour trip to the next all-kind-of-batteries-seller. Not so damn HP :-)
Now back to the battery question, I can't remember if it was a lithium or NiCd one, but it was a very common one and I could easily find a replacement one and you should too. Just don't replace the NiCd with NiMH, but I guess you know that.
Thanks, Fred
|
HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board
I have a 334A whose AUTO function is not working correctly. It seeks an initial null then drifts well off of that null.
I've been checking the voltages and waveforms on the A5 board and have bound TP5 is completely dead. I've checked everything I can think of so far and still haven't found it; however, in my exploration of that board, I found some components that don't appear to be on either of the schematics I have and not sure what they are. There are a few of them and in two cases, they're tied from collector to base for two of the transistors.
I'm attempting to attach pictures that show these parts but if that fails, I'll add these to an album. If they do come through, I'm talking about the darker brown components that look a bit like a resistor but are marked a bit differently (e.g. red black black orange brown. My presumption that is 200,000 with the brown being a tolerance or tempco indicator but don't know.
Anyone recognize these?
BTW, the serial number prefix for mine is 1140A and one of the manuals I have is valid for the serial number; however, I'm not sure if there may be some Service Notes that may have included those parts. I have a lot of microfiche and the index for the 334A mentions quite a few updates that are not part of a manual (at least I don't think they are). Unfortunately, the only microfiche I have is a 1972 version so it's quite a bit older than mine.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
|
Re: Are there any HP CRT refrenece documents?
Others: HP130B: 5AQP, 2090-0007. P1 is standard; also available with P2, P5, or P7. HP122A: 5083-0053 (P31), 5083-0032 (P2), 5083-0033 (P7), 5083-0042 (P11). HP182T: 5083-3970, P39.
Pete
|
Re: Are there any HP CRT refrenece documents?
Here is a list I have compiled. It is nowhere near complete; I hope it is correct.
Jeremy
HP CRTs G-205E-2 ?175A Oscilloscope (P31) The following all carry the first four digits "5083-"
0353 130C Oscilloscope 0722 132A Oscilloscope (dual gun) 0652 140A Oscilloscope 9093 140T Oscilloscope 1452 141A Storage Oscilloscope 2587 141T Storage Oscilloscope 2511 141T Storage Oscilloscope 1752 143A Oscilloscope (P31) 1722 143A Oscilloscope (P2) 1751 143A Oscilloscope (P?) 1732 143A Oscilloscope (P7) 1442 143A Oscilloscope (P11) 0842 H30-175A Oscilloscope, high writing-rate CRT 3552 1740A Oscilloscope 5070 1741A Storage Oscilloscope 9023 180E Oscilloscope 1952 181T Storage Oscilloscope 5791 8510 Network Analyzer 3975 Unknown, seen for sale on eBay 1875 Unknown, eBay rectangular 6589 Unknown, eBay rectangular 5732 Unknown, eBay rectangular 6577 Unknown, eBay rectangular 5751 Unknown, eBay rectangular 5723 Unknown, eBay rectangular
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 11:08 AM walter shawlee < walter2@...> wrote: With Tektronix, there is both a detailed CRT data dump, and a "used in" index for CRTs, but I have never found anything similar for HP.? does anyone know of any hp CRT reference data out there?? any info appreciated, as I have failed to find any for 30+ years. It seems like it must exist but I just don't know how to fin dit.
best regards, walter (walter2 -at- ) sphere research corp.
|
Re: Wanted: HP 8445b Preselector
I have one - need your e-mail Quoting garp6 <hrgerson@...>:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
hi,
Wanted: HP 8445b Preselector .
Please contact me off-list.
thank you, rick
|
Re: [hp70k] msib sniffer/injector interest query
Tried since a long time ! It is derived from the Hughes/Delphi connector line but specialy manufactured for HP. Delphi, of course, refused to sell to anybody outside HP. See the mechanical design guide I sent to davidandlaura and uploaded by them. On Monday, April 27, 2020, 07:53:22 PM GMT+2, Mark Kahrs <mark.kahrs@...> wrote:
Speaking of the MMS series, has anyone tried to find that connector?? HPAK calls it "proprietary"...? The closest I've found was a Packard-Hughes series (now Delphi):
But they don't seem to offer the 50 pin version.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
JF, Thank you for sending the documents.
I have uploaded them here:
The interface specification?indicates that a module-based sniffer will be able to see all traffic between modules within a chassis. Traffic within a module is *not* sent over the external MSIB connectors unless it is destined (or from) a remote chassis, which significantly?reduces?the utility of an external sniffer.
Here's some more thoughts on using a 70100A as the starting point:
This above photo shows the analog board of the 70100A. This board can be removed, and a new PCB can be attached to the standoffs along the top of the module. The digital board can be left in to handle power conversion, with power being provided to the new PCB by the existing ribbon cable from the digital board.
The MSIB connector can be disconnected from the digital board, and reconnected to the new PCB. Here's a closeup:
The RFI ferrite and the MSIB connector can easily be detached and re-routed to the new PCB on the other side of the module.
If we use a Raspberry Pi zero, a USB to Ethernet adapter can be used to provide Ethernet connectivity to the front (or rear) panel. Since the MSIB connector also includes GPIB pins, it makes sense to break those out so that a USB to GPIB adapter can also be included if desired.
The PCB would thus contain the MSIB connector, glue logic to the Raspberry Pi Zero GPIO connector, a power connector, and a connector to connect to the front panel LEDs.
Any thoughts on this general approach?
Does anyone have.a CLIP for the 70100A?
Thanks,
David Slik VE7FIM
On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:08 PM David & Laura via <davidandlaura= [email protected]> wrote: JF,
Working from the MMS specification documents will accelerate this effort significantly. Can you upload the documents to the list? (or e-mail them directly and I'll upload them for you)
Thanks
David Slik VE7FIM Sorry but it is an unnecessary work : everything you look at is in the MMS_system_specs as the MMS was an open system like Tek TM500/5000 and a lot of companies (Comstron --very impressive ultrafast 4 slots synthesyzer--, Tern Technologies...) built modules for the MMS. I have most of the documents about the system and I sent all in 2014 to a guy Stewart Cobb, asking just for a feedback and prototype. No hear from him... Part of the mails with SC JF, Another interesting idea. It would actually be fairly easy to build a USB-to-MSIB interface box. The external bus is not clocked, it's done with handshaking, so any processor could implement the protocol with bit-banging. You'd need two 37-pin connectors, a bunch of RS-422 driver chips, and a microcontroller with USB. For speed, you'd want USB 2.0. There are plenty of ARM M3 microcontrollers with USB. The hardware would not be hard. Microcontroller software might be harder. The PC display end would be all software, but a lot of it. I wonder how many people would want something like that? Enough to help program it? Enough to buy one? Cheers! --Stu On Dec 17, 2014 8:30 AM, "JF PICARD" < jfphp@...> wrote: Stu Your idea about the CPLD for the bus is very interesting : bus transfers in the MMS system is governed by custom IC in the mainframe et in the plug ins, no longer supplied, and I have allready got the idea to replace these by CPLD, just an idea for me because I have no knowledge in this domain and I found nobody interested by such a project. There is perhaps a small market to offer substitute for this very special ICs. There is another very interesting subjet you will get in touch with your work : the MMS control by a PC . HP offered the 70207A/B (with various options depending of the bundled softwares and accessories : HPBasic, HPIB board...) allowing the total control of any MMS system from a PC running Windows NT. It uses an MSIB interface and a dedicated software. I am hunting it since years without any success, neither in parts nor in software... It could be a side result of your project. 73. JF On Friday, April 24, 2020, 06:27:20 AM GMT+2, Dave McGuire < mcguire@...> wrote:
? I for one think that's a fantastic idea.? I'm a heavy user of MSIB stuff, and would love to see it extended a bit.
? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave
On 4/23/20 3:59 PM, Jan de Jongh wrote: > Dear all, > > While building my 3rd hp70k-mms system, I want to assess the interest in > a project idea I've had for the past two years or so: A > *sniffer/injector* for the hp70k module-interconnection protocol > (*msib*). All (hardware/software) open source; this is not a commercial > proposal (apart from e.g. cost-price PCB delivery). > > The very rough basic idea is to take a single-width hp70k module > (likely, for-parts-only), strip everything inside apart from the msib > interface and mechanical interfaces, and put inside one or more PCBs that: > >? * Interface with the msib bus such that 'basic bus transactions' can >? ? be captured; >? * Store these 'transactions' into (e.g.) a pcap file on an ssd >? ? connected to a (say) an embedded Raspberry Pi; >? * Transfer these 'transactions' over 1 Gbps Ethernet (copper/Fiber >? ? Optic) from the Raspberry Pi; >? * Interface over Ethernet both from the front and the rear; >? * Import the pcap 'transaction' into Wireshark (on a remote machine); >? * Interpret the 'transactions' using an hp70k-msib dissector; >? * Perhaps add power monitoring, etc.; >? * ... > > > This would be the basic first-order requirements of the project. In > subsequent phases, injection of messages/transactions on the bus and > running HP calibration (HP-BASIC) software from virtualized containers > could be implemented. > > *My questions:* > >? * Is any project already working on something like this that I can >? ? join (I could not find any)? >? * Would this be interesting enough to the amateur hp70k community? Is >? ? there sufficient added value to a tool like this over merely >? ? swapping modules in order to get things to work? >? * Does a tool like this have the potential to increase the public >? ? knowledge on the hp70k mms? Could it reveal calibration data? Is it >? ? worth it? >? * *Would anyone be willing to help?* I figure that even a first >? ? attempt at a working prototype would take over a year, but various >? ? components of the project (like the pcap format definition, >? ? wireshark dissectors, web-based interfacing, RPi firmware, KiCAD PCB >? ? design of bus interfacing, ...) could be isolated and >? ? designed/implemented in a team-effort... Needless to say this >? ? project would required >=4 committed enthusiast aficionados... > > > Thanks in advance for your thoughts/vision on this, BR, > Jan - pa3gyf >
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Are there any HP CRT refrenece documents?
With Tektronix, there is both a detailed CRT data dump, and a "used in" index for CRTs, but I have never found anything similar for HP.? does anyone know of any hp CRT reference data out there?? any info appreciated, as I have failed to find any for 30+ years. It seems like it must exist but I just don't know how to fin dit.
best regards, walter (walter2 -at- sphere.bc.ca) sphere research corp.
|
Re: [hp70k] msib sniffer/injector interest query
Speaking of the MMS series, has anyone tried to find that connector?? HPAK calls it "proprietary"...? The closest I've found was a Packard-Hughes series (now Delphi):
But they don't seem to offer the 50 pin version.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
JF, Thank you for sending the documents.
I have uploaded them here:
The interface specification?indicates that a module-based sniffer will be able to see all traffic between modules within a chassis. Traffic within a module is *not* sent over the external MSIB connectors unless it is destined (or from) a remote chassis, which significantly?reduces?the utility of an external sniffer.
Here's some more thoughts on using a 70100A as the starting point:
This above photo shows the analog board of the 70100A. This board can be removed, and a new PCB can be attached to the standoffs along the top of the module. The digital board can be left in to handle power conversion, with power being provided to the new PCB by the existing ribbon cable from the digital board.
The MSIB connector can be disconnected from the digital board, and reconnected to the new PCB. Here's a closeup:
The RFI ferrite and the MSIB connector can easily be detached and re-routed to the new PCB on the other side of the module.
If we use a Raspberry Pi zero, a USB to Ethernet adapter can be used to provide Ethernet connectivity to the front (or rear) panel. Since the MSIB connector also includes GPIB pins, it makes sense to break those out so that a USB to GPIB adapter can also be included if desired.
The PCB would thus contain the MSIB connector, glue logic to the Raspberry Pi Zero GPIO connector, a power connector, and a connector to connect to the front panel LEDs.
Any thoughts on this general approach?
Does anyone have.a CLIP for the 70100A?
Thanks,
David Slik VE7FIM
On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:08 PM David & Laura via <davidandlaura= [email protected]> wrote: JF,
Working from the MMS specification documents will accelerate this effort significantly. Can you upload the documents to the list? (or e-mail them directly and I'll upload them for you)
Thanks
David Slik VE7FIM Sorry but it is an unnecessary work : everything you look at is in the MMS_system_specs as the MMS was an open system like Tek TM500/5000 and a lot of companies (Comstron --very impressive ultrafast 4 slots synthesyzer--, Tern Technologies...) built modules for the MMS. I have most of the documents about the system and I sent all in 2014 to a guy Stewart Cobb, asking just for a feedback and prototype. No hear from him... Part of the mails with SC JF, Another interesting idea. It would actually be fairly easy to build a USB-to-MSIB interface box. The external bus is not clocked, it's done with handshaking, so any processor could implement the protocol with bit-banging. You'd need two 37-pin connectors, a bunch of RS-422 driver chips, and a microcontroller with USB. For speed, you'd want USB 2.0. There are plenty of ARM M3 microcontrollers with USB. The hardware would not be hard. Microcontroller software might be harder. The PC display end would be all software, but a lot of it. I wonder how many people would want something like that? Enough to help program it? Enough to buy one? Cheers! --Stu On Dec 17, 2014 8:30 AM, "JF PICARD" < jfphp@...> wrote: Stu Your idea about the CPLD for the bus is very interesting : bus transfers in the MMS system is governed by custom IC in the mainframe et in the plug ins, no longer supplied, and I have allready got the idea to replace these by CPLD, just an idea for me because I have no knowledge in this domain and I found nobody interested by such a project. There is perhaps a small market to offer substitute for this very special ICs. There is another very interesting subjet you will get in touch with your work : the MMS control by a PC . HP offered the 70207A/B (with various options depending of the bundled softwares and accessories : HPBasic, HPIB board...) allowing the total control of any MMS system from a PC running Windows NT. It uses an MSIB interface and a dedicated software. I am hunting it since years without any success, neither in parts nor in software... It could be a side result of your project. 73. JF On Friday, April 24, 2020, 06:27:20 AM GMT+2, Dave McGuire < mcguire@...> wrote:
? I for one think that's a fantastic idea.? I'm a heavy user of MSIB stuff, and would love to see it extended a bit.
? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave
On 4/23/20 3:59 PM, Jan de Jongh wrote: > Dear all, > > While building my 3rd hp70k-mms system, I want to assess the interest in > a project idea I've had for the past two years or so: A > *sniffer/injector* for the hp70k module-interconnection protocol > (*msib*). All (hardware/software) open source; this is not a commercial > proposal (apart from e.g. cost-price PCB delivery). > > The very rough basic idea is to take a single-width hp70k module > (likely, for-parts-only), strip everything inside apart from the msib > interface and mechanical interfaces, and put inside one or more PCBs that: > >? * Interface with the msib bus such that 'basic bus transactions' can >? ? be captured; >? * Store these 'transactions' into (e.g.) a pcap file on an ssd >? ? connected to a (say) an embedded Raspberry Pi; >? * Transfer these 'transactions' over 1 Gbps Ethernet (copper/Fiber >? ? Optic) from the Raspberry Pi; >? * Interface over Ethernet both from the front and the rear; >? * Import the pcap 'transaction' into Wireshark (on a remote machine); >? * Interpret the 'transactions' using an hp70k-msib dissector; >? * Perhaps add power monitoring, etc.; >? * ... > > > This would be the basic first-order requirements of the project. In > subsequent phases, injection of messages/transactions on the bus and > running HP calibration (HP-BASIC) software from virtualized containers > could be implemented. > > *My questions:* > >? * Is any project already working on something like this that I can >? ? join (I could not find any)? >? * Would this be interesting enough to the amateur hp70k community? Is >? ? there sufficient added value to a tool like this over merely >? ? swapping modules in order to get things to work? >? * Does a tool like this have the potential to increase the public >? ? knowledge on the hp70k mms? Could it reveal calibration data? Is it >? ? worth it? >? * *Would anyone be willing to help?* I figure that even a first >? ? attempt at a working prototype would take over a year, but various >? ? components of the project (like the pcap format definition, >? ? wireshark dissectors, web-based interfacing, RPi firmware, KiCAD PCB >? ? design of bus interfacing, ...) could be isolated and >? ? designed/implemented in a team-effort... Needless to say this >? ? project would required >=4 committed enthusiast aficionados... > > > Thanks in advance for your thoughts/vision on this, BR, > Jan - pa3gyf >
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|