¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Date

Re: WTB: HP 8971B or advice

 

Reginald - I have an HP 8971C in good condition that I am considering selling. I'd like to connect off line to discuss. Where are you located?

Cheers!

Bruce

Quoting "Reginald Beardsley via groups.io" <pulaskite@...>:

I recently got an 8970B & 346B from Pete. I'd like to add an 8971B to the system so I can cover the 2.4 & 5 GHz ISM bands.

There are some 8971Bs on ebay, but the the cheap ones are "untested, no returns". As I think all are aware the "untested" may or may not be true. This gets really questionable when the seller is xxxxx_test.

Does anyone have any advice to offer? Or better yet, one to sell.

Also, I have an 83631B. Can I use that as the LO instead of an 83630B? For the sake of repeatability I plan to run everything via GPIB and a program.

Thanks,
Reg

Thanks,
Reg


Re: HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

To me they look like 200 K 1% resistors. I've used 'high accuracy' resistors 40 years agoo that looked like that.
An ohm-meter would indicate the value, but they would have to be unsoldered at one side.
If they were indicators, 200mH in that size is unlikely.

Arie


On 2020-04-27 21:22, n4buq wrote:

I have a 334A whose AUTO function is not working correctly.  It seeks an initial null then drifts well off of that null.

I've been checking the voltages and waveforms on the A5 board and have bound TP5 is completely dead.  I've checked everything I can think of so far and still haven't found it; however, in my exploration of that board, I found some components that don't appear to be on either of the schematics I have and not sure what they are.  There are a few of them and in two cases, they're tied from collector to base for two of the transistors.

I'm attempting to attach pictures that show these parts but if that fails, I'll add these to an album.  If they do come through, I'm talking about the darker brown components that look a bit like a resistor but are marked a bit differently (e.g. red black black orange brown.  My presumption that is 200,000 with the brown being a tolerance or tempco indicator but don't know.

Anyone recognize these?

BTW, the serial number prefix for mine is 1140A and one of the manuals I have is valid for the serial number; however, I'm not sure if there may be some Service Notes that may have included those parts.  I have a lot of microfiche and the index for the 334A mentions quite a few updates that are not part of a manual (at least I don't think they are).  Unfortunately, the only microfiche I have is a 1972 version so it's quite a bit older than mine.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ





Re: HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board

 

Okay, Ed. Given the measurements I'm seeing across them, that would make sense and I can ignore those for now as they're most likely not at the root of the problem with A5-TP5.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Breya via groups.io" <edbreya@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 3:00:54 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board

Those are 1% tolerance resistors. Using all four bands your 200,000 number is
correct in ohms. The last brown is for 1%.? Ed




Re: HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board

 

Hi Pat,

That was my initial thinking as well and, since they don't measure low ohms, then they're either not inductors or they're burned out. Given that I don't think any of them check low like that, then I'm thinking they may not be inductors.

In the microfiche index, some of the service note documents elude to something installed to help eliminate oscillations in some circuits and that made me suspect they're caps; however, with no more to go on than that, I'm still unsure.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Manning" <pbmanning@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:49:12 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board

Barry -

Maybe do a quick check with an ohmmeter? If they're inductors they should be
near shorts at DC.

-Pat

On April 27, 2020 at 3:43 PM n4buq <n4buq@...
mailto:n4buq@... > wrote:


Hi Pat,

I wondered if they're inductors or capacitors. I'm not sure that style
of capacitor was around at that time so an inductor makes sense.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

----- Original Message -----

> > From: "Patrick Manning" <pbmanning@...
> > mailto:pbmanning@... >
To: [email protected]
mailto:[email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:40:59 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 334A - Mystery
Parts on A5 Board

Barry -

Those appear to be axial inductors - 20mH, 1% if I'm reading them
correctly.

-Pat

> > > On April 27, 2020 at 3:22 PM n4buq <n4buq@...
> > > mailto:n4buq@...
mailto:n4buq@... mailto:n4buq@... > wrote:


I have a 334A whose AUTO function is not working correctly.
It seeks an
initial null then drifts well off of that null.

I've been checking the voltages and waveforms on the A5
board and have
bound TP5 is completely dead. I've checked everything I can
think of
so far and still haven't found it; however, in my
exploration of that
board, I found some components that don't appear to be on
either of
the schematics I have and not sure what they are. There are
a few of
them and in two cases, they're tied from collector to base
for two of
the transistors.

I'm attempting to attach pictures that show these parts but
if that
fails, I'll add these to an album. If they do come through,
I'm
talking about the darker brown components that look a bit
like a
resistor but are marked a bit differently (e.g. red black
black orange
brown. My presumption that is 200,000 with the brown being
a tolerance
or tempco indicator but don't know.

Anyone recognize these?

BTW, the serial number prefix for mine is 1140A and one of
the manuals
I have is valid for the serial number; however, I'm not
sure if there
may be some Service Notes that may have included those
parts. I have a
lot of microfiche and the index for the 334A mentions quite
a few
updates that are not part of a manual (at least I don't
think they
are). Unfortunately, the only microfiche I have is a 1972
version so
it's quite a bit older than mine.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ


> >
>
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Re: HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board

 

Those are 1% tolerance resistors. Using all four bands your 200,000 number is correct in ohms. The last brown is for 1%.? Ed


Re: Are there any HP CRT refrenece documents?

 

On 2020-04-27 2:50 PM, Jeremy Nichols wrote:
Here is a list I have compiled. It is nowhere near complete; I hope it
is correct.
I've found that the installed part number can be different from the one
specified in the service manual parts list or as options.

Having "source" listed in such a list could be interesting. (e.g. "seen
installed", "service manual", "not listed but tested ok", or option number).

--Toby

Jeremy

HP CRTs
G-205E-2 ?175A Oscilloscope (P31)
The following all carry the first four digits "5083-"
0353 130C Oscilloscope
0722 132A Oscilloscope (dual gun)
0652 140A Oscilloscope
9093 140T Oscilloscope
1452 141A Storage Oscilloscope
2587 141T Storage Oscilloscope
2511 141T Storage Oscilloscope
1752 143A Oscilloscope (P31)
1722 143A Oscilloscope (P2)
1751 143A Oscilloscope (P?)
1732 143A Oscilloscope (P7)
1442 143A Oscilloscope (P11)
0842 H30-175A Oscilloscope, high writing-rate CRT
3552 1740A Oscilloscope
5070 1741A Storage Oscilloscope
9023 180E Oscilloscope
1952 181T Storage Oscilloscope
5791 8510 Network Analyzer
3975 Unknown, seen for sale on eBay
1875 Unknown, eBay rectangular
6589 Unknown, eBay rectangular
5732 Unknown, eBay rectangular
6577 Unknown, eBay rectangular
5751 Unknown, eBay rectangular
5723 Unknown, eBay rectangular

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 11:08 AM walter shawlee <walter2@...
<mailto:walter2@...>> wrote:

With Tektronix, there is both a detailed CRT data dump, and a "used
in" index for CRTs, but I have never found anything similar for HP.?
does anyone know of any hp CRT reference data out there?? any info
appreciated, as I have failed to find any for 30+ years. It seems
like it must exist but I just don't know how to fin dit.

best regards,
walter (walter2 -at- sphere.bc.ca <>)
sphere research corp.


Re: HP 4195A NiCad Battery replacement

 

Yes - I know about the battery and found a replacement. It is a NiCad
2.4v (2 cell). Not so sure about the NiMH replacement though - can
you outline the argument against please?


Quoting Fr¨¦d¨¦ric BARTOLI <fred.bartoli@...>:

HI guys,

Quite a few years back I got an HP4194A dead (not booting). It 's
exactly the same chassis/cpu as the 4195A that I have a pair too.
When I got it, it appeared that the CPU board battery was dead, and
HP carefully designed a circuit that could not start on a dead
battery.

Damn HP, but wait...
The seller was a few km from me, so I paid him a visit to see how
the unit managed to not start... Blank screen sounded good to me.
I tried to make him end the auction early but he insisted on having
the auction go to it's end.

The auction was starting at Eur300, and I got it for Eur350 IIRC.
What I never told the seller is that I was ready to pay Eur1700 for
him to end it early... (those units are expensive and I really
wanted it)

Then troubleshooting was 2-3 hours (had to reverse that bit of CPU
board part) and a one hour trip to the next
all-kind-of-batteries-seller.
Not so damn HP :-)

Now back to the battery question, I can't remember if it was a
lithium or NiCd one, but it was a very common one and I could easily
find a replacement one and you should too.
Just don't replace the NiCd with NiMH, but I guess you know that.

Thanks,
Fred

It is a 2.4v NiCad (2 cell).


Re: HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board

 

Barry -

Maybe do a quick check with an ohmmeter?? If they're inductors they should be near shorts at DC.

-Pat

On April 27, 2020 at 3:43 PM n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:


Hi Pat,

I wondered if they're inductors or capacitors. I'm not sure that style of capacitor was around at that time so an inductor makes sense.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Manning" <pbmanning@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:40:59 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board

Barry -

Those appear to be axial inductors - 20mH, 1% if I'm reading them correctly.

-Pat
On April 27, 2020 at 3:22 PM n4buq <n4buq@...
mailto:n4buq@... > wrote:


I have a 334A whose AUTO function is not working correctly. It seeks an
initial null then drifts well off of that null.

I've been checking the voltages and waveforms on the A5 board and have
bound TP5 is completely dead. I've checked everything I can think of
so far and still haven't found it; however, in my exploration of that
board, I found some components that don't appear to be on either of
the schematics I have and not sure what they are. There are a few of
them and in two cases, they're tied from collector to base for two of
the transistors.

I'm attempting to attach pictures that show these parts but if that
fails, I'll add these to an album. If they do come through, I'm
talking about the darker brown components that look a bit like a
resistor but are marked a bit differently (e.g. red black black orange
brown. My presumption that is 200,000 with the brown being a tolerance
or tempco indicator but don't know.

Anyone recognize these?

BTW, the serial number prefix for mine is 1140A and one of the manuals
I have is valid for the serial number; however, I'm not sure if there
may be some Service Notes that may have included those parts. I have a
lot of microfiche and the index for the 334A mentions quite a few
updates that are not part of a manual (at least I don't think they
are). Unfortunately, the only microfiche I have is a 1972 version so
it's quite a bit older than mine.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ



Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.

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Re: HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board

 

Hi Pat,

I wondered if they're inductors or capacitors. I'm not sure that style of capacitor was around at that time so an inductor makes sense.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Manning" <pbmanning@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:40:59 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board

Barry -

Those appear to be axial inductors - 20mH, 1% if I'm reading them correctly.

-Pat

On April 27, 2020 at 3:22 PM n4buq <n4buq@...
mailto:n4buq@... > wrote:


I have a 334A whose AUTO function is not working correctly. It seeks an
initial null then drifts well off of that null.

I've been checking the voltages and waveforms on the A5 board and have
bound TP5 is completely dead. I've checked everything I can think of
so far and still haven't found it; however, in my exploration of that
board, I found some components that don't appear to be on either of
the schematics I have and not sure what they are. There are a few of
them and in two cases, they're tied from collector to base for two of
the transistors.

I'm attempting to attach pictures that show these parts but if that
fails, I'll add these to an album. If they do come through, I'm
talking about the darker brown components that look a bit like a
resistor but are marked a bit differently (e.g. red black black orange
brown. My presumption that is 200,000 with the brown being a tolerance
or tempco indicator but don't know.

Anyone recognize these?

BTW, the serial number prefix for mine is 1140A and one of the manuals
I have is valid for the serial number; however, I'm not sure if there
may be some Service Notes that may have included those parts. I have a
lot of microfiche and the index for the 334A mentions quite a few
updates that are not part of a manual (at least I don't think they
are). Unfortunately, the only microfiche I have is a 1972 version so
it's quite a bit older than mine.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ





Re: HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board

 

Correction - 200mH.

-Pat

On April 27, 2020 at 3:22 PM n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:


I have a 334A whose AUTO function is not working correctly. It seeks an initial null then drifts well off of that null.

I've been checking the voltages and waveforms on the A5 board and have bound TP5 is completely dead. I've checked everything I can think of so far and still haven't found it; however, in my exploration of that board, I found some components that don't appear to be on either of the schematics I have and not sure what they are. There are a few of them and in two cases, they're tied from collector to base for two of the transistors.

I'm attempting to attach pictures that show these parts but if that fails, I'll add these to an album. If they do come through, I'm talking about the darker brown components that look a bit like a resistor but are marked a bit differently (e.g. red black black orange brown. My presumption that is 200,000 with the brown being a tolerance or tempco indicator but don't know.

Anyone recognize these?

BTW, the serial number prefix for mine is 1140A and one of the manuals I have is valid for the serial number; however, I'm not sure if there may be some Service Notes that may have included those parts. I have a lot of microfiche and the index for the 334A mentions quite a few updates that are not part of a manual (at least I don't think they are). Unfortunately, the only microfiche I have is a 1972 version so it's quite a bit older than mine.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ


Re: HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board

 

Barry -

Those appear to be axial inductors - 20mH, 1% if I'm reading them correctly.

-Pat

On April 27, 2020 at 3:22 PM n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote:


I have a 334A whose AUTO function is not working correctly. It seeks an initial null then drifts well off of that null.

I've been checking the voltages and waveforms on the A5 board and have bound TP5 is completely dead. I've checked everything I can think of so far and still haven't found it; however, in my exploration of that board, I found some components that don't appear to be on either of the schematics I have and not sure what they are. There are a few of them and in two cases, they're tied from collector to base for two of the transistors.

I'm attempting to attach pictures that show these parts but if that fails, I'll add these to an album. If they do come through, I'm talking about the darker brown components that look a bit like a resistor but are marked a bit differently (e.g. red black black orange brown. My presumption that is 200,000 with the brown being a tolerance or tempco indicator but don't know.

Anyone recognize these?

BTW, the serial number prefix for mine is 1140A and one of the manuals I have is valid for the serial number; however, I'm not sure if there may be some Service Notes that may have included those parts. I have a lot of microfiche and the index for the 334A mentions quite a few updates that are not part of a manual (at least I don't think they are). Unfortunately, the only microfiche I have is a 1972 version so it's quite a bit older than mine.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ


Re: Semiconductor test set advice

 

I've been watching the uTracer 6 development but was not aware of the other two.

I eventually need to sell off a bunch of NOS tubes of Dad's including a bunch of VT-211s. Not keen on building a 1500 V supply though to test those. I bought a military Hickock tester (TU-7/B ???), but have not started on the chore of even making a full inventory. Just sorting them took several days.

I forget the tube designation but I've got over 100 of what is basically a 6L6 with 3 V filaments which were used in aircraft intercom systems. I might need to design a guitar amp around a pair of those so I can sell them at good prices.

Sadly I've not found the 5U4Gs. I know he had a bunch because i helped look for them when we needed one to fix the TV. People pay crazy prices for them when a silicon diode would be better.


Re: HP 4195A NiCad Battery replacement

 

HI guys,

Quite a few years back I got an HP4194A dead (not booting). It 's exactly the same chassis/cpu as the 4195A that I have a pair too.
When I got it, it appeared that the CPU board battery was dead, and HP carefully designed a circuit that could not start on a dead battery.

Damn HP, but wait...
The seller was a few km from me, so I paid him a visit to see how the unit managed to not start... Blank screen sounded good to me.
I tried to make him end the auction early but he insisted on having the auction go to it's end.

The auction was starting at Eur300, and I got it for Eur350 IIRC.
What I never told the seller is that I was ready to pay Eur1700 for him to end it early... (those units are expensive and I really wanted it)?

Then troubleshooting was 2-3 hours (had to reverse that bit of CPU board part) and a one hour trip to the next all-kind-of-batteries-seller.
Not so damn HP :-)

Now back to the battery question, I can't remember if it was a lithium or NiCd one, but it was a very common one and I could easily find a replacement one and you should too.
Just don't replace the NiCd with NiMH, but I guess you know that.

Thanks,
Fred


HP 334A - Mystery Parts on A5 Board

 

I have a 334A whose AUTO function is not working correctly. It seeks an initial null then drifts well off of that null.

I've been checking the voltages and waveforms on the A5 board and have bound TP5 is completely dead. I've checked everything I can think of so far and still haven't found it; however, in my exploration of that board, I found some components that don't appear to be on either of the schematics I have and not sure what they are. There are a few of them and in two cases, they're tied from collector to base for two of the transistors.

I'm attempting to attach pictures that show these parts but if that fails, I'll add these to an album. If they do come through, I'm talking about the darker brown components that look a bit like a resistor but are marked a bit differently (e.g. red black black orange brown. My presumption that is 200,000 with the brown being a tolerance or tempco indicator but don't know.

Anyone recognize these?

BTW, the serial number prefix for mine is 1140A and one of the manuals I have is valid for the serial number; however, I'm not sure if there may be some Service Notes that may have included those parts. I have a lot of microfiche and the index for the 334A mentions quite a few updates that are not part of a manual (at least I don't think they are). Unfortunately, the only microfiche I have is a 1972 version so it's quite a bit older than mine.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ


Re: Are there any HP CRT refrenece documents?

 

Others:
HP130B: 5AQP, 2090-0007. P1 is standard; also available with P2, P5, or P7.
HP122A: 5083-0053 (P31), 5083-0032 (P2), 5083-0033 (P7), 5083-0042 (P11).
HP182T: 5083-3970, P39.

Pete


Re: Are there any HP CRT refrenece documents?

 

Here is a list I have compiled. It is nowhere near complete; I hope it is correct.

Jeremy

HP CRTs
G-205E-2 ?175A Oscilloscope (P31)
The following all carry the first four digits "5083-"
0353 130C Oscilloscope
0722 132A Oscilloscope (dual gun)
0652 140A Oscilloscope
9093 140T Oscilloscope
1452 141A Storage Oscilloscope
2587 141T Storage Oscilloscope
2511 141T Storage Oscilloscope
1752 143A Oscilloscope (P31)
1722 143A Oscilloscope (P2)
1751 143A Oscilloscope (P?)
1732 143A Oscilloscope (P7)
1442 143A Oscilloscope (P11)
0842 H30-175A Oscilloscope, high writing-rate CRT
3552 1740A Oscilloscope
5070 1741A Storage Oscilloscope
9023 180E Oscilloscope
1952 181T Storage Oscilloscope
5791 8510 Network Analyzer
3975 Unknown, seen for sale on eBay
1875 Unknown, eBay rectangular
6589 Unknown, eBay rectangular
5732 Unknown, eBay rectangular
6577 Unknown, eBay rectangular
5751 Unknown, eBay rectangular
5723 Unknown, eBay rectangular


On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 11:08 AM walter shawlee <walter2@...> wrote:
With Tektronix, there is both a detailed CRT data dump, and a "used in" index for CRTs, but I have never found anything similar for HP.? does anyone know of any hp CRT reference data out there?? any info appreciated, as I have failed to find any for 30+ years. It seems like it must exist but I just don't know how to fin dit.

best regards,
walter (walter2 -at- )
sphere research corp.


Re: Wanted: HP 8445b Preselector

 

I have one - need your e-mail
Quoting garp6 <hrgerson@...>:

hi,

Wanted: HP 8445b Preselector .

Please contact me off-list.

thank you,
rick


Re: [hp70k] msib sniffer/injector interest query

 

Tried since a long time ! It is derived from the Hughes/Delphi connector line but specialy manufactured for HP. Delphi, of course, refused to sell to anybody outside HP. See the mechanical design guide I sent to davidandlaura and uploaded by them.
On Monday, April 27, 2020, 07:53:22 PM GMT+2, Mark Kahrs <mark.kahrs@...> wrote:


Speaking of the MMS series, has anyone tried to find that connector?? HPAK calls it "proprietary"...? The closest I've found was a Packard-Hughes series (now Delphi):


But they don't seem to offer the 50 pin version.


On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 2:15 AM David & Laura <davidandlaura@...> wrote:
JF, Thank you for sending the documents.

I have uploaded them here:


The interface specification?indicates that a module-based sniffer will be able to see all traffic between modules within a chassis. Traffic within a module is *not* sent over the external MSIB connectors unless it is destined (or from) a remote chassis, which significantly?reduces?the utility of an external sniffer.

Here's some more thoughts on using a 70100A as the starting point:

IMG_2536.jpg

This above photo shows the analog board of the 70100A. This board can be removed, and a new PCB can be attached to the standoffs along the top of the module. The digital board can be left in to handle power conversion, with power being provided to the new PCB by the existing ribbon cable from the digital board.

The MSIB connector can be disconnected from the digital board, and reconnected to the new PCB. Here's a closeup:

IMG_2535.jpg

The RFI ferrite and the MSIB connector can easily be detached and re-routed to the new PCB on the other side of the module.

If we use a Raspberry Pi zero, a USB to Ethernet adapter can be used to provide Ethernet connectivity to the front (or rear) panel. Since the MSIB connector also includes GPIB pins, it makes sense to break those out so that a USB to GPIB adapter can also be included if desired.

The PCB would thus contain the MSIB connector, glue logic to the Raspberry Pi Zero GPIO connector, a power connector, and a connector to connect to the front panel LEDs.

Any thoughts on this general approach?

Does anyone have.a CLIP for the 70100A?

Thanks,

David Slik
VE7FIM



On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:08 PM David & Laura via <davidandlaura=[email protected]> wrote:
JF,

Working from the MMS specification documents will accelerate this effort significantly. Can you upload the documents to the list? (or e-mail them directly and I'll upload them for you)

Thanks

David Slik
VE7FIM

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 2:58 AM jfphp via <jfphp=[email protected]> wrote:
Sorry but it is an unnecessary work : everything you look at is in the MMS_system_specs as the MMS was an open system like Tek TM500/5000 and a lot of companies (Comstron --very impressive ultrafast 4 slots synthesyzer--, Tern Technologies...) built modules for the MMS.
I have most of the documents about the system and I sent all in 2014 to a guy Stewart Cobb, asking just for a feedback and prototype. No hear from him...

Part of the mails with SC

JF,
Another interesting idea. It would actually be fairly easy to build a USB-to-MSIB interface box. The external bus is not clocked, it's done with handshaking, so any processor could implement the protocol with bit-banging. You'd need two 37-pin connectors, a bunch of RS-422 driver chips, and a microcontroller with USB. For speed, you'd want USB 2.0. There are plenty of ARM M3 microcontrollers with USB. The hardware would not be hard. Microcontroller software might be harder. The PC display end would be all software, but a lot of it.

I wonder how many people would want something like that? Enough to help program it? Enough to buy one?

Cheers!
--Stu



On Dec 17, 2014 8:30 AM, "JF PICARD" <jfphp@...> wrote:

Stu

Your idea about the CPLD for the bus is very interesting : bus transfers in the MMS system is governed by custom IC in the mainframe et in the plug ins, no longer supplied, and I have allready got the idea to replace these by CPLD, just an idea for me because I have no knowledge in this domain and I found nobody interested by such a project. There is perhaps a small market to offer substitute for this very special ICs.
There is another very interesting subjet you will get in touch with your work : the MMS control by a PC . HP offered the 70207A/B (with various options depending of the bundled softwares and accessories : HPBasic, HPIB board...) allowing the total control of any MMS system from a PC running Windows NT. It uses an MSIB interface and a dedicated software. I am hunting it since years without any success, neither in parts nor in software... It could be a side result of your project.

73.

JF
On Friday, April 24, 2020, 06:27:20 AM GMT+2, Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> wrote:



? I for one think that's a fantastic idea.? I'm a heavy user of MSIB
stuff, and would love to see it extended a bit.

? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave

On 4/23/20 3:59 PM, Jan de Jongh wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> While building my 3rd hp70k-mms system, I want to assess the interest in
> a project idea I've had for the past two years or so: A
> *sniffer/injector* for the hp70k module-interconnection protocol
> (*msib*). All (hardware/software) open source; this is not a commercial
> proposal (apart from e.g. cost-price PCB delivery).
>
> The very rough basic idea is to take a single-width hp70k module
> (likely, for-parts-only), strip everything inside apart from the msib
> interface and mechanical interfaces, and put inside one or more PCBs that:
>
>? * Interface with the msib bus such that 'basic bus transactions' can
>? ? be captured;
>? * Store these 'transactions' into (e.g.) a pcap file on an ssd
>? ? connected to a (say) an embedded Raspberry Pi;
>? * Transfer these 'transactions' over 1 Gbps Ethernet (copper/Fiber
>? ? Optic) from the Raspberry Pi;
>? * Interface over Ethernet both from the front and the rear;
>? * Import the pcap 'transaction' into Wireshark (on a remote machine);
>? * Interpret the 'transactions' using an hp70k-msib dissector;
>? * Perhaps add power monitoring, etc.;
>? * ...
>
>
> This would be the basic first-order requirements of the project. In
> subsequent phases, injection of messages/transactions on the bus and
> running HP calibration (HP-BASIC) software from virtualized containers
> could be implemented.
>
> *My questions:*
>
>? * Is any project already working on something like this that I can
>? ? join (I could not find any)?
>? * Would this be interesting enough to the amateur hp70k community? Is
>? ? there sufficient added value to a tool like this over merely
>? ? swapping modules in order to get things to work?
>? * Does a tool like this have the potential to increase the public
>? ? knowledge on the hp70k mms? Could it reveal calibration data? Is it
>? ? worth it?
>? * *Would anyone be willing to help?* I figure that even a first
>? ? attempt at a working prototype would take over a year, but various
>? ? components of the project (like the pcap format definition,
>? ? wireshark dissectors, web-based interfacing, RPi firmware, KiCAD PCB
>? ? design of bus interfacing, ...) could be isolated and
>? ? designed/implemented in a team-effort... Needless to say this
>? ? project would required >=4 committed enthusiast aficionados...
>
>
> Thanks in advance for your thoughts/vision on this, BR,
> Jan - pa3gyf
>


--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA




Are there any HP CRT refrenece documents?

walter shawlee
 

With Tektronix, there is both a detailed CRT data dump, and a "used in" index for CRTs, but I have never found anything similar for HP.? does anyone know of any hp CRT reference data out there?? any info appreciated, as I have failed to find any for 30+ years. It seems like it must exist but I just don't know how to fin dit.

best regards,
walter (walter2 -at- sphere.bc.ca)
sphere research corp.


Re: [hp70k] msib sniffer/injector interest query

 

Speaking of the MMS series, has anyone tried to find that connector?? HPAK calls it "proprietary"...? The closest I've found was a Packard-Hughes series (now Delphi):


But they don't seem to offer the 50 pin version.


On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 2:15 AM David & Laura <davidandlaura@...> wrote:
JF, Thank you for sending the documents.

I have uploaded them here:


The interface specification?indicates that a module-based sniffer will be able to see all traffic between modules within a chassis. Traffic within a module is *not* sent over the external MSIB connectors unless it is destined (or from) a remote chassis, which significantly?reduces?the utility of an external sniffer.

Here's some more thoughts on using a 70100A as the starting point:

IMG_2536.jpg

This above photo shows the analog board of the 70100A. This board can be removed, and a new PCB can be attached to the standoffs along the top of the module. The digital board can be left in to handle power conversion, with power being provided to the new PCB by the existing ribbon cable from the digital board.

The MSIB connector can be disconnected from the digital board, and reconnected to the new PCB. Here's a closeup:

IMG_2535.jpg

The RFI ferrite and the MSIB connector can easily be detached and re-routed to the new PCB on the other side of the module.

If we use a Raspberry Pi zero, a USB to Ethernet adapter can be used to provide Ethernet connectivity to the front (or rear) panel. Since the MSIB connector also includes GPIB pins, it makes sense to break those out so that a USB to GPIB adapter can also be included if desired.

The PCB would thus contain the MSIB connector, glue logic to the Raspberry Pi Zero GPIO connector, a power connector, and a connector to connect to the front panel LEDs.

Any thoughts on this general approach?

Does anyone have.a CLIP for the 70100A?

Thanks,

David Slik
VE7FIM



On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:08 PM David & Laura via <davidandlaura=[email protected]> wrote:
JF,

Working from the MMS specification documents will accelerate this effort significantly. Can you upload the documents to the list? (or e-mail them directly and I'll upload them for you)

Thanks

David Slik
VE7FIM

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 2:58 AM jfphp via <jfphp=[email protected]> wrote:
Sorry but it is an unnecessary work : everything you look at is in the MMS_system_specs as the MMS was an open system like Tek TM500/5000 and a lot of companies (Comstron --very impressive ultrafast 4 slots synthesyzer--, Tern Technologies...) built modules for the MMS.
I have most of the documents about the system and I sent all in 2014 to a guy Stewart Cobb, asking just for a feedback and prototype. No hear from him...

Part of the mails with SC

JF,
Another interesting idea. It would actually be fairly easy to build a USB-to-MSIB interface box. The external bus is not clocked, it's done with handshaking, so any processor could implement the protocol with bit-banging. You'd need two 37-pin connectors, a bunch of RS-422 driver chips, and a microcontroller with USB. For speed, you'd want USB 2.0. There are plenty of ARM M3 microcontrollers with USB. The hardware would not be hard. Microcontroller software might be harder. The PC display end would be all software, but a lot of it.

I wonder how many people would want something like that? Enough to help program it? Enough to buy one?

Cheers!
--Stu



On Dec 17, 2014 8:30 AM, "JF PICARD" <jfphp@...> wrote:

Stu

Your idea about the CPLD for the bus is very interesting : bus transfers in the MMS system is governed by custom IC in the mainframe et in the plug ins, no longer supplied, and I have allready got the idea to replace these by CPLD, just an idea for me because I have no knowledge in this domain and I found nobody interested by such a project. There is perhaps a small market to offer substitute for this very special ICs.
There is another very interesting subjet you will get in touch with your work : the MMS control by a PC . HP offered the 70207A/B (with various options depending of the bundled softwares and accessories : HPBasic, HPIB board...) allowing the total control of any MMS system from a PC running Windows NT. It uses an MSIB interface and a dedicated software. I am hunting it since years without any success, neither in parts nor in software... It could be a side result of your project.

73.

JF
On Friday, April 24, 2020, 06:27:20 AM GMT+2, Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> wrote:



? I for one think that's a fantastic idea.? I'm a heavy user of MSIB
stuff, and would love to see it extended a bit.

? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave

On 4/23/20 3:59 PM, Jan de Jongh wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> While building my 3rd hp70k-mms system, I want to assess the interest in
> a project idea I've had for the past two years or so: A
> *sniffer/injector* for the hp70k module-interconnection protocol
> (*msib*). All (hardware/software) open source; this is not a commercial
> proposal (apart from e.g. cost-price PCB delivery).
>
> The very rough basic idea is to take a single-width hp70k module
> (likely, for-parts-only), strip everything inside apart from the msib
> interface and mechanical interfaces, and put inside one or more PCBs that:
>
>? * Interface with the msib bus such that 'basic bus transactions' can
>? ? be captured;
>? * Store these 'transactions' into (e.g.) a pcap file on an ssd
>? ? connected to a (say) an embedded Raspberry Pi;
>? * Transfer these 'transactions' over 1 Gbps Ethernet (copper/Fiber
>? ? Optic) from the Raspberry Pi;
>? * Interface over Ethernet both from the front and the rear;
>? * Import the pcap 'transaction' into Wireshark (on a remote machine);
>? * Interpret the 'transactions' using an hp70k-msib dissector;
>? * Perhaps add power monitoring, etc.;
>? * ...
>
>
> This would be the basic first-order requirements of the project. In
> subsequent phases, injection of messages/transactions on the bus and
> running HP calibration (HP-BASIC) software from virtualized containers
> could be implemented.
>
> *My questions:*
>
>? * Is any project already working on something like this that I can
>? ? join (I could not find any)?
>? * Would this be interesting enough to the amateur hp70k community? Is
>? ? there sufficient added value to a tool like this over merely
>? ? swapping modules in order to get things to work?
>? * Does a tool like this have the potential to increase the public
>? ? knowledge on the hp70k mms? Could it reveal calibration data? Is it
>? ? worth it?
>? * *Would anyone be willing to help?* I figure that even a first
>? ? attempt at a working prototype would take over a year, but various
>? ? components of the project (like the pcap format definition,
>? ? wireshark dissectors, web-based interfacing, RPi firmware, KiCAD PCB
>? ? design of bus interfacing, ...) could be isolated and
>? ? designed/implemented in a team-effort... Needless to say this
>? ? project would required >=4 committed enthusiast aficionados...
>
>
> Thanks in advance for your thoughts/vision on this, BR,
> Jan - pa3gyf
>


--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA