Re: Test Equipment For Sale
It is a lighter version if ADSB and is used by gliders in the US.
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On 25 Apr 2020, at 13:59, Daun Yeagley via groups.io <daun@...> wrote:
? Here in the US we call it ADSB.
Daun E. Yeagley II, N8ASB
On 4/25/2020 8:04 AM, Colin Smithers wrote:
FLARM is an aircraft collision warning system. Each end knows where is it by GPS and every second transmits is location, velocity and heading on a common channel.
?
Approaching aircraft hear the pings of other FLARM equipped aircraft an calculate whether there is going to be a collision. If it thinks there is danger it
beeps loudly to the pilot to take avoiding action. The beeps get faster as the nature of the danger increases. It is generally regarded that if you get a beep it is a failure of lookout, but lookout is never perfect and all pilots get beeps. Glider pilots
fly for miles towards good-looking clouds and hence find themselves unwittingly ?flying toward each other. In the Alps gliders fly in the updrafts very to the mountains and meet other aircraft head-on as they go around corners ¨C it was that community that
first developed FLARM. It¡¯s a life-saver.
?
The glider antenna installation is generally a monopole and ground plane somewhere in the dash in front of the pilot. The usual installation errors I get invited
to diagnose are owing to short range and arise from antenna de-tuning by nearby objects, noise from other equipment, (mostly data lines and switching PSUs), and obstruction such as by parts of the aircraft made of, or repaired in carbon fibre.
?
Sometimes its hard to get away from playing radio to actually get to go flying. Lol
?
Rgds
?
Colin
?
Hi colin
?
OK on portability by the way I always put instruments with a tube on the back seat so as not to brake the tube
Ok could you please explain
aircraft 866MHz FLARM systems
?
And yes the tracking generators I have only go to 1300 mhz
?
Regards Paul
?
A Spec An and sweeper and an external 3dB hybrid to act as reflectometer enable such a wealth of measurements that I¡¯d be lost without the tracking gen. Surely
it can only be lack of demonstrations showing people what can be done with this combination that is the answer to your question.
?
People will have read my comments about calibrating the 8920A. For something robust enough to survive in the boot (sorry ¨C trunk) it is always with me at ham
radio events and at the gliding club where I get to test and repair many things such as UHF ground radios, VHF airiband radios, aircraft 866MHz FLARM systems. Oh, and the remote Davis Vantage Vue weather station ¨C we have it operating at 2km range with >99%
uptime. The 8920 is the goto instrument and always has the hybrid hanging off the front for measuring all of these types of antenna. No sweeper? ¨C non starter. Shame it stops at 1GHz.
?
Rgds
?
Colin
?
?
Hi all
?
During the last year on a number of sites I have seen several requests for people buying their fist spectrum analyser and all have spoken about wanting a tracking
generator
?
I personally have only used an analyser with a tracking generator a few times in my life and that was 35 years ago a Marconi 110 Mhz spectrum analyser for setting
up IF ?filters
?
In my early days I started using swappers and diode detectors or power meters with an oscilloscope then moved onto Scaler analysers
?
Could it be the new people are not familiar with other test equipment and think a spectrum analyser is the only tool they require and unaware of sweepers and Scalier
analysers
?
Your comments please ??Regards Paul
?
?
?
Does 8594E have tracking generator..?
May be interested in TG parts...
_Dave KC6UPS
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
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Re: Test Equipment For Sale
Here in the US we call it ADSB.
Daun E. Yeagley II, N8ASB
On 4/25/2020 8:04 AM, Colin Smithers
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
FLARM
is an aircraft collision warning system. Each end knows
where is it by GPS and every second transmits is location,
velocity and heading on a common channel.
?
Approaching
aircraft hear the pings of other FLARM equipped aircraft an
calculate whether there is going to be a collision. If it
thinks there is danger it beeps loudly to the pilot to take
avoiding action. The beeps get faster as the nature of the
danger increases. It is generally regarded that if you get a
beep it is a failure of lookout, but lookout is never
perfect and all pilots get beeps. Glider pilots fly for
miles towards good-looking clouds and hence find themselves
unwittingly ?flying toward each other. In the Alps gliders
fly in the updrafts very to the mountains and meet other
aircraft head-on as they go around corners ¨C it was that
community that first developed FLARM. It¡¯s a life-saver.
?
The
glider antenna installation is generally a monopole and
ground plane somewhere in the dash in front of the pilot.
The usual installation errors I get invited to diagnose are
owing to short range and arise from antenna de-tuning by
nearby objects, noise from other equipment, (mostly data
lines and switching PSUs), and obstruction such as by parts
of the aircraft made of, or repaired in carbon fibre.
?
Sometimes
its hard to get away from playing radio to actually get to
go flying. Lol
?
Rgds
?
Colin
?
Hi
colin
?
OK
on portability by the way I always put instruments with a
tube on the back seat so as not to brake the tube
Ok
could you please explain
aircraft
866MHz FLARM systems
?
And
yes the tracking generators I have only go to 1300 mhz
?
Regards
Paul
?
A
Spec An and sweeper and an external 3dB hybrid to act as
reflectometer enable such a wealth of measurements that I¡¯d
be lost without the tracking gen. Surely it can only be lack
of demonstrations showing people what can be done with this
combination that is the answer to your question.
?
People
will have read my comments about calibrating the 8920A. For
something robust enough to survive in the boot (sorry ¨C
trunk) it is always with me at ham radio events and at the
gliding club where I get to test and repair many things such
as UHF ground radios, VHF airiband radios, aircraft 866MHz
FLARM systems. Oh, and the remote Davis Vantage Vue weather
station ¨C we have it operating at 2km range with >99%
uptime. The 8920 is the goto instrument and always has the
hybrid hanging off the front for measuring all of these
types of antenna. No sweeper? ¨C non starter. Shame it stops
at 1GHz.
?
Rgds
?
Colin
?
?
Hi
all
?
During
the last year on a number of sites I have seen several
requests for people buying their fist spectrum analyser and
all have spoken about wanting a tracking generator
?
I
personally have only used an analyser with a tracking
generator a few times in my life and that was 35 years ago a
Marconi 110 Mhz spectrum analyser for setting up IF ?filters
?
In
my early days I started using swappers and diode detectors
or power meters with an oscilloscope then moved onto Scaler
analysers
?
Could
it be the new people are not familiar with other test
equipment and think a spectrum analyser is the only tool
they require and unaware of sweepers and Scalier analysers
?
Your
comments please ??Regards Paul
?
?
?
Does 8594E have tracking generator..?
May be interested in TG parts...
_Dave KC6UPS
No
virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release
Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
No
virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release
Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
|
Re: Test Equipment For Sale
FLARM is an aircraft collision warning system. Each end knows where is it by GPS and every second transmits is location, velocity and heading on a common channel.
?
Approaching aircraft hear the pings of other FLARM equipped aircraft an calculate whether there is going to be a collision. If it thinks there is danger it
beeps loudly to the pilot to take avoiding action. The beeps get faster as the nature of the danger increases. It is generally regarded that if you get a beep it is a failure of lookout, but lookout is never perfect and all pilots get beeps. Glider pilots
fly for miles towards good-looking clouds and hence find themselves unwittingly ?flying toward each other. In the Alps gliders fly in the updrafts very to the mountains and meet other aircraft head-on as they go around corners ¨C it was that community that
first developed FLARM. It¡¯s a life-saver.
?
The glider antenna installation is generally a monopole and ground plane somewhere in the dash in front of the pilot. The usual installation errors I get invited
to diagnose are owing to short range and arise from antenna de-tuning by nearby objects, noise from other equipment, (mostly data lines and switching PSUs), and obstruction such as by parts of the aircraft made of, or repaired in carbon fibre.
?
Sometimes its hard to get away from playing radio to actually get to go flying. Lol
?
Rgds
?
Colin
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Paul Bicknell via groups.io
Sent: 25 April 2020 12:01
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Test Equipment For Sale
?
Hi colin
?
OK on portability by the way I always put instruments with a tube on the back seat so as not to brake the tube
Ok could you please explain
aircraft 866MHz FLARM systems
?
And yes the tracking generators I have only go to 1300 mhz
?
Regards Paul
?
A Spec An and sweeper and an external 3dB hybrid to act as reflectometer enable such a wealth of measurements that I¡¯d be lost without the tracking gen. Surely
it can only be lack of demonstrations showing people what can be done with this combination that is the answer to your question.
?
People will have read my comments about calibrating the 8920A. For something robust enough to survive in the boot (sorry ¨C trunk) it is always with me at ham
radio events and at the gliding club where I get to test and repair many things such as UHF ground radios, VHF airiband radios, aircraft 866MHz FLARM systems. Oh, and the remote Davis Vantage Vue weather station ¨C we have it operating at 2km range with >99%
uptime. The 8920 is the goto instrument and always has the hybrid hanging off the front for measuring all of these types of antenna. No sweeper? ¨C non starter. Shame it stops at 1GHz.
?
Rgds
?
Colin
?
?
Hi all
?
During the last year on a number of sites I have seen several requests for people buying their fist spectrum analyser and all have spoken about wanting a tracking
generator
?
I personally have only used an analyser with a tracking generator a few times in my life and that was 35 years ago a Marconi 110 Mhz spectrum analyser for setting
up IF ?filters
?
In my early days I started using swappers and diode detectors or power meters with an oscilloscope then moved onto Scaler analysers
?
Could it be the new people are not familiar with other test equipment and think a spectrum analyser is the only tool they require and unaware of sweepers and Scalier
analysers
?
Your comments please ??Regards Paul
?
?
?
Does 8594E have tracking generator..?
May be interested in TG parts...
_Dave KC6UPS
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
|
Re: Test Equipment For Sale
Hi colin
?
OK on portability by the way I always put instruments
with a tube on the back seat so as not to brake the tube
Ok could you please explain aircraft 866MHz FLARM systems
?
And yes the tracking generators I have only
go to 1300 mhz
?
Regards Paul
?
A Spec An and
sweeper and an external 3dB hybrid to act as reflectometer enable such a wealth
of measurements that I¡¯d be lost without the tracking gen. Surely it can
only be lack of demonstrations showing people what can be done with this
combination that is the answer to your question.
?
People will have
read my comments about calibrating the 8920A. For something robust enough to
survive in the boot (sorry ¨C trunk) it is always with me at ham radio
events and at the gliding club where I get to test and repair many things such
as UHF ground radios, VHF airiband radios, aircraft 866MHz FLARM systems. Oh,
and the remote Davis Vantage Vue weather station ¨C we have it operating
at 2km range with >99% uptime. The 8920 is the goto instrument and always
has the hybrid hanging off the front for measuring all of these types of
antenna. No sweeper? ¨C non starter. Shame it stops at 1GHz.
?
Rgds
?
Colin
?
?
Hi all
?
During the last year on a number of sites
I have seen several requests for people buying their fist spectrum analyser and
all have spoken about wanting a tracking generator
?
I personally have only used an analyser
with a tracking generator a few times in my life and that was 35 years ago a
Marconi 110 Mhz spectrum analyser for setting up IF ?filters
?
In my early days I started using swappers
and diode detectors or power meters with an oscilloscope then moved onto Scaler
analysers
?
Could it be the new people are not
familiar with other test equipment and think a spectrum analyser is the only
tool they require and unaware of sweepers and Scalier analysers
?
Your comments please ??Regards
Paul
?
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 6:06 AM Dave Wright <davewrightsplace@...>
wrote:
Does 8594E have tracking generator..?
May be interested in TG parts...
_Dave KC6UPS
No virus found in
this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
|
Re: Test Equipment For Sale
A Spec An and sweeper and an external 3dB hybrid to act as reflectometer enable such a wealth of measurements that I¡¯d be lost without the tracking gen. Surely
it can only be lack of demonstrations showing people what can be done with this combination that is the answer to your question.
?
People will have read my comments about calibrating the 8920A. For something robust enough to survive in the boot (sorry ¨C trunk) it is always with me at ham
radio events and at the gliding club where I get to test and repair many things such as UHF ground radios, VHF airiband radios, aircraft 866MHz FLARM systems. Oh, and the remote Davis Vantage Vue weather station ¨C we have it operating at 2km range with >99%
uptime. The 8920 is the goto instrument and always has the hybrid hanging off the front for measuring all of these types of antenna. No sweeper? ¨C non starter. Shame it stops at 1GHz.
?
Rgds
?
Colin
?
?
Hi all
?
During the last year on a number of sites I have seen several requests for people buying their fist spectrum analyser and all have spoken about wanting a tracking
generator
?
I personally have only used an analyser with a tracking generator a few times in my life and that was 35 years ago a Marconi 110 Mhz spectrum analyser for setting
up IF ?filters
?
In my early days I started using swappers and diode detectors or power meters with an oscilloscope then moved onto Scaler analysers
?
Could it be the new people are not familiar with other test equipment and think a spectrum analyser is the only tool they require and unaware of sweepers and Scalier
analysers
?
Your comments please ??Regards Paul
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Michael Yellin
Sent: 25 April 2020 02:07
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Test Equipment For Sale
?
?
Does 8594E have tracking generator..?
May be interested in TG parts...
_Dave KC6UPS
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
|
Re: Test Equipment For Sale
Hello Paul,
nah, I think it is a combination of:
a) lack of green
b) lack of space
I sit on 65m2 dedicated lab space, and it is barely enough.
Tam
With best regards
Tam HANNA
Enjoy electronics? Join 15k7 other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at
On 2020. 04. 25. 11:59, Paul Bicknell
wrote:
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Show quoted text
Hi all
?
During the last
year on a number of sites I
have seen several requests for people buying their fist
spectrum analyser and all
have spoken about wanting a tracking generator
?
I personally have
only used an analyser
with a tracking generator a few times in my life and
that was 35 years ago a
Marconi 110 Mhz spectrum analyser for setting up IF
?filters
?
In my early days I
started using swappers
and diode detectors or power meters with an oscilloscope
then moved onto Scaler
analysers
?
Could it be the new
people are not familiar
with other test equipment and think a spectrum analyser
is the only tool they
require and unaware of sweepers and Scalier analysers
?
Your comments
please ??Regards
Paul
?
?
?
Does 8594E have tracking generator..?
May be interested in TG parts...
_Dave KC6UPS
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 -
Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
|
Re: Test Equipment For Sale
Hi all
?
During the last year on a number of sites I
have seen several requests for people buying their fist spectrum analyser and all
have spoken about wanting a tracking generator
?
I personally have only used an analyser
with a tracking generator a few times in my life and that was 35 years ago a
Marconi 110 Mhz spectrum analyser for setting up IF ?filters
?
In my early days I started using swappers
and diode detectors or power meters with an oscilloscope then moved onto Scaler
analysers
?
Could it be the new people are not familiar
with other test equipment and think a spectrum analyser is the only tool they
require and unaware of sweepers and Scalier analysers
?
Your comments please ??Regards
Paul
?
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 6:06 AM Dave Wright <davewrightsplace@...>
wrote:
Does 8594E have tracking generator..?
May be interested in TG parts...
_Dave KC6UPS
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
|
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
Hello,
oh, we will do something similar. The Stinkely "Consumer Edition"
has a significantly slower processor and, also, comes with five
games preinstalled which can NOT be removed.
Tam
With best regards
Tam HANNA
Enjoy electronics? Join 15k7 other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at
On 2020. 04. 25. 10:02, Dave Seiter
wrote:
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Which reminds me, I had two
Fluke units years ago that were not windows based, but had
backgammon installed.? I don't recall what they were, maybe
controllers of some kind?
-Dave
-----
? Don't worry, there are enough real test instruments to
last through
our lifetimes at least.? Let the clueless kids flock to
their
Winstruments, they'll probably install games on them
anyway.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
Which reminds me, I had two Fluke units years ago that were not windows based, but had backgammon installed.? I don't recall what they were, maybe controllers of some kind?
-Dave
-----
? Don't worry, there are enough real test instruments to last through
our lifetimes at least.? Let the clueless kids flock to their
Winstruments, they'll probably install games on them anyway.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: HP 4195A NiCad Battery replacement
Hello,
farting around the town now, my HP 4195A still has a working
battery.
a) I would use an external battery pack. Just hotglue or cable
tie a AAA holder to the arse end of the unit, and run a thin well
insulated wire.
b) AFAIK not. Friend of my lab gypsy had a 4195A which was a real
junker. They kickstarted it by charging the deep discharged
battery externally, and the unit behaved. Also, the Maintenance
Manual mentions EEPROM writes multiple times in the last
chapter...
Tam
With best regards
Tam HANNA
Enjoy electronics? Join 15k7 other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at
On 2020. 04. 25. 8:17, Bruce wrote:
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I have a 4195A with a bad 2.4V (roughly 3/2 AA? size) NiCad
battery HP part 1420-0306 (obsolete).
Does anyone know of a currently available replacement battery.? I
remember a previous discussion on replacing the batteries in a
Fluke 731A that someone mentioned a US company that could build
battery packs - can't find the thread.
Anybody know of a source for such a battery
Also, does anyone know whether calibration data will be lost if
battery is replaced without finding a way to hold the RAM voltage
up?
|
HP 4195A NiCad Battery replacement
I have a 4195A with a bad 2.4V (roughly 3/2 AA? size) NiCad battery HP part 1420-0306 (obsolete).
Does anyone know of a currently available replacement battery.? I remember a previous discussion on replacing the batteries in a Fluke 731A that someone mentioned a US company that could build battery packs - can't find the thread.
Anybody know of a source for such a battery
Also, does anyone know whether calibration data will be lost if battery is replaced without finding a way to hold the RAM voltage up?
|
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
Dave, you have to trigger me early in the morning. This is the only time in my career, ever, when I almost got medieval to a subordinate.
Returned to my office only to find an accountant playing SOLITAIRE on a TLA. The little coot somehow - innovatively, Ill give that - found out that the thing runs Windows. Neither me nor my team, at the time, liked card games (which are a total suck of life, sadly, one of my cadets is a Baccarat degenerate)...so we did not bother to clean it up and head IT also didn't give a f**k.
Well, in I waddled in the morning, red bull in the one claw and toast in the other...only to see what cannot be unseen.
Oh, the times...
With best regards
Tam HANNA
Enjoy electronics? Join 15k7 other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at
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On 2020. 04. 25. 1:24, Dave McGuire wrote: On 4/24/20 3:28 PM, medasaro wrote:
On the other hand, it drives me insane that at work we have these new
MSO oscilloscopes from Tektronix that run Windows 7 on an embedded PC.
The things have amazing sampling rate and sample depth plus lots of
bells and whistled, but they... are... painfully... slow... to interact
with. You press one of the buttons around the screen to bring up a menu
and then wait for the better part of a second for it to respond. At home
I have a TDS3034b with an internal M68K running Tek's own firmware. It
responds pretty much instantly. Go figure. The old HP scopes were the
same way - instant to respond to button presses. I just don't get it -
why would anyone in their right mind WANT Windows on an oscilloscope? I
don't want to have to run anti-virus on my scope. Or install windows
updates. Or any of the other #$@%@#$^ that comes with maintaining a
Windows install. And for what? So I can run Excel on the oscilloscope
instead of my workstation? Actually, I would rather do my data
processing on my workstation which has a larger, readable, screen, thank
you. Agreed 100%. Those Winstruments are garbage. My assumption is that
the companies who have gone that route did so either due to kickbacks or
wanting to have cheaper developers working on the products.
Don't worry, there are enough real test instruments to last through
our lifetimes at least. Let the clueless kids flock to their
Winstruments, they'll probably install games on them anyway.
-Dave
|
Re: Maximum depth of HP rack mountable gear?
Wife introduced kitchen work surfaces (Kuechenarbeitsplatte). Cheap, can be had at home improvement store, works well here.
Tam
With best regards
Tam HANNA
Enjoy electronics? Join 15k7 other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at
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On 2020. 04. 25. 7:50, John Parkins G8KVP wrote: Hello Dave,
No nothing bad at all, just making it more difficult for ourselves.
When we moved house I took over a room for my gear, so I was able to
build benches, shelves etc as I wanted them. At first it was fine, but
I think as we all do a flat surface is for putting things on. So the
amount of available work area reduces and reduces until we're trying
to work on a large bit of gear in a space which isn't quite big
enough...... I've over come this by having a removable 'bench' which
is only put into place when I need the extra room and removed
afterwards. If it were left in place it would end up covered in stuff!
We can't help it, I think it's in all our natures to collect.
Friday, April 24, 2020, 6:53:46 PM, you wrote:
DM> On 4/24/20 12:27 PM, John Parkins G8KVP wrote:
WORKBENCH! How ever wide you make them they just aren't wide enough.
DM> Unfinished flat doors make very good workbenches. And desks, for that
DM> matter.
Why do we do this to ourselves?
DM> You say this as if there's something bad about it.
DM> -Dave
|
Re: Maximum depth of HP rack mountable gear?
Hello Dave, No nothing bad at all, just making it more difficult for ourselves. When we moved house I took over a room for my gear, so I was able to build benches, shelves etc as I wanted them. At first it was fine, but I think as we all do a flat surface is for putting things on. So the amount of available work area reduces and reduces until we're trying to work on a large bit of gear in a space which isn't quite big enough...... I've over come this by having a removable 'bench' which is only put into place when I need the extra room and removed afterwards. If it were left in place it would end up covered in stuff! We can't help it, I think it's in all our natures to collect. Friday, April 24, 2020, 6:53:46 PM, you wrote: DM> On 4/24/20 12:27 PM, John Parkins G8KVP wrote: WORKBENCH! How ever wide you make them they just aren't wide enough.
DM> Unfinished flat doors make very good workbenches. And desks, for that DM> matter. Why do we do this to ourselves?
DM> You say this as if there's something bad about it. DM> -Dave -- Best regards, John mailto:john@...
|
Re: [hp70k] msib sniffer/injector interest query
JF,
Working from the MMS specification documents will accelerate this effort significantly. Can you upload the documents to the list? (or e-mail them directly and I'll upload them for you)
Thanks
David Slik VE7FIM
Sorry but it is an unnecessary work : everything you look at is in the MMS_system_specs as the MMS was an open system like Tek TM500/5000 and a lot of companies (Comstron --very impressive ultrafast 4 slots synthesyzer--, Tern Technologies...) built modules for the MMS. I have most of the documents about the system and I sent all in 2014 to a guy Stewart Cobb, asking just for a feedback and prototype. No hear from him... Part of the mails with SC JF, Another interesting idea. It would actually be fairly easy to build a USB-to-MSIB interface box. The external bus is not clocked, it's done with handshaking, so any processor could implement the protocol with bit-banging. You'd need two 37-pin connectors, a bunch of RS-422 driver chips, and a microcontroller with USB. For speed, you'd want USB 2.0. There are plenty of ARM M3 microcontrollers with USB. The hardware would not be hard. Microcontroller software might be harder. The PC display end would be all software, but a lot of it. I wonder how many people would want something like that? Enough to help program it? Enough to buy one? Cheers! --Stu On Dec 17, 2014 8:30 AM, "JF PICARD" < jfphp@...> wrote: Stu Your idea about the CPLD for the bus is very interesting : bus transfers in the MMS system is governed by custom IC in the mainframe et in the plug ins, no longer supplied, and I have allready got the idea to replace these by CPLD, just an idea for me because I have no knowledge in this domain and I found nobody interested by such a project. There is perhaps a small market to offer substitute for this very special ICs. There is another very interesting subjet you will get in touch with your work : the MMS control by a PC . HP offered the 70207A/B (with various options depending of the bundled softwares and accessories : HPBasic, HPIB board...) allowing the total control of any MMS system from a PC running Windows NT. It uses an MSIB interface and a dedicated software. I am hunting it since years without any success, neither in parts nor in software... It could be a side result of your project. 73. JF On Friday, April 24, 2020, 06:27:20 AM GMT+2, Dave McGuire < mcguire@...> wrote:
? I for one think that's a fantastic idea.? I'm a heavy user of MSIB
stuff, and would love to see it extended a bit.
? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave
On 4/23/20 3:59 PM, Jan de Jongh wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> While building my 3rd hp70k-mms system, I want to assess the interest in
> a project idea I've had for the past two years or so: A
> *sniffer/injector* for the hp70k module-interconnection protocol
> (*msib*). All (hardware/software) open source; this is not a commercial
> proposal (apart from e.g. cost-price PCB delivery).
>
> The very rough basic idea is to take a single-width hp70k module
> (likely, for-parts-only), strip everything inside apart from the msib
> interface and mechanical interfaces, and put inside one or more PCBs that:
>
>? * Interface with the msib bus such that 'basic bus transactions' can
>? ? be captured;
>? * Store these 'transactions' into (e.g.) a pcap file on an ssd
>? ? connected to a (say) an embedded Raspberry Pi;
>? * Transfer these 'transactions' over 1 Gbps Ethernet (copper/Fiber
>? ? Optic) from the Raspberry Pi;
>? * Interface over Ethernet both from the front and the rear;
>? * Import the pcap 'transaction' into Wireshark (on a remote machine);
>? * Interpret the 'transactions' using an hp70k-msib dissector;
>? * Perhaps add power monitoring, etc.;
>? * ...
>
>
> This would be the basic first-order requirements of the project. In
> subsequent phases, injection of messages/transactions on the bus and
> running HP calibration (HP-BASIC) software from virtualized containers
> could be implemented.
>
> *My questions:*
>
>? * Is any project already working on something like this that I can
>? ? join (I could not find any)?
>? * Would this be interesting enough to the amateur hp70k community? Is
>? ? there sufficient added value to a tool like this over merely
>? ? swapping modules in order to get things to work?
>? * Does a tool like this have the potential to increase the public
>? ? knowledge on the hp70k mms? Could it reveal calibration data? Is it
>? ? worth it?
>? * *Would anyone be willing to help?* I figure that even a first
>? ? attempt at a working prototype would take over a year, but various
>? ? components of the project (like the pcap format definition,
>? ? wireshark dissectors, web-based interfacing, RPi firmware, KiCAD PCB
>? ? design of bus interfacing, ...) could be isolated and
>? ? designed/implemented in a team-effort... Needless to say this
>? ? project would required >=4 committed enthusiast aficionados...
>
>
> Thanks in advance for your thoughts/vision on this, BR,
> Jan - pa3gyf
>
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: WTB: Mechanical bits for HP 89441A
On 4/24/20 7:49 PM, medasaro wrote: Thank you so much Dave! You are amazing. I can't help it! If possible, please include the
special captive screws that hold it on (I don't have those either). Yup, they're intact. Out
of curiosity, do you have a parts 85441A or were these clips used on
another instrument as well? I don't have a parts unit; I very rarely part things out. I had removed this one from my unit, as I don't much care for these clips. The transceiver I'm using on mine has a pigtail cable on it (I have a bunch like this) and the weight of the body of the transceiver isn't pulling down on it, so I don't need the clip. Happy to send you PayPal for postage etc.
Just let me know the amount. Just postage; I'll let you know. It'll go out tomorrow. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
Well, to this hardware guy, it seems like the trend to abstract out the application code has been great for software writing productivity but not so good for making stuff work properly. I have a lot more respect for software engineers who at least know something about the hardware.
Too many don't.
Also, someone wisely pointed out that software is dangerous because the fanout is infinite. The results of a calculation can go anywhere and everywhere. I've expanded that comment to say that hardware enforces discipline more than software, analog electronics enforces discipline more than digital, RF and microwave electronics enforces discipline more than low-frequency analog electronics, and millimeterwave electronics enforces discipline more than RF and microwave. Much of the trend has to do with fanout. Of course it's an oversimplification, but there is some truth there. Every discipline (to use a different meaning of the word) has its own difficulties, but just keeping the signals you want going where you want them and not where you don't is non-trivial at mmwave.
Jim Ford
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
------ Original Message ------ From: "Reginald Beardsley via groups.io" <pulaskite@...> To: [email protected]Sent: 4/24/2020 4:56:18 PM Subject: Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes At USENIX '95 in NOLA I got a 1.44 MB Plan 9 floppy with the OS, windowing system, editor and basic command line utilities and full Unicode support.
I was very interested in Plan 9 because it intended to support 35,000 users. However, I had a long chat with Dennis Ritchie who told me that they had not implemented that yet and had been diverted to other projects. It was very different, but quite amazing. And is still running on a huge machine at one of the national labs.
The major culprit in bloat is OOP. Tables of pointers to tables of pointers to tables of pointers. In feature rich classes, all those tables of pointers take up a huge amount of memory.
My professional experience led me to conclude that very few programmers actually have any grasp of what the machine is doing when they write a line of code.
Worse than that, if multiple inheritance is used it will require reading *all* the source code, the C++ language standard and the compiler implementation notes to determine what
A = B + C;
actually does. In such cases, the order of execution of constructors is "implementation defined". And the "+" operation is dependent upon the inherited traits of A, B & C and the perversity of the programmer.
This is why I do not use C++ and will not work on C++ codes. I've brought 2.5 million lines of old C & FORTRAN back from the dead and never failed. I've never gotten a C++ code which was more than 1-2 years old to compile. It's probably better now as I've been retired from such misery for 15 years. But I've made very old C and FORTRAN codes run and fixed the bugs. Fundamentally because I knew exactly what the machine was supposed to do when it encountered a statement.
I once wrote a string substitution in C and C++. Very simple, replace "aaa" with "bbb". The C version was 2/3 of a page. The C++ version took 3 pages. At the start of the project I posted a page from the book by John Lakos on large C++ systems where he pointed out the issues with pathological linker dependencies. It was ignored and I took it off my door after a few weeks. About 3 months later, the entire project ground to a complete halt as it would no longer compile overnight leading to urgent team meetings to fix the problem. I was quite amazed when one of the C++ developers pulled a copy of the page that had been on my door some months earlier out of his desk drawer. The team lead and the $100/hr C++ guru had ignored it.
Reg
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Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
Well, when the first Windows (95) instruments came out, the convenience was great; we could move files around, print, etc. without a big deal.
Tek, as I recall came out with the TLA700 series logic analyzers/DSOs, the first based on Windows, and they were much quicker and less hassle to work with, than say, the Prism (we called them Prison) series instruments - it felt like you were in jail! HP at the time was first out of the gate with a Windows based scope, the Infiniium series. We welcomed the Windows machines, certainly compared to the awkward, proprietary machines we were used to. Probably Win 7 and Win 10 machines are slowed down by the bloatware. I've not had the misfortune to use one yet.
I do still have a TLA711, the big monster mainframe, but it's not usable because I botched replacing the real-time clock in the Benchtop Controller a few years ago and haven't gotten around to fixing it yet.
It runs Win 98, and I used to use a KVM switch to go between it and my lab computer without needing 2 monitors, 2 mice, and 2 keyboards. Will resurrect that system someday....
Jim Ford
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Show quoted text
------ Original Message ------ From: "Dave McGuire" <mcguire@...> To: [email protected]Sent: 4/24/2020 4:24:08 PM Subject: Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes On 4/24/20 3:28 PM, medasaro wrote:
On the other hand, it drives me insane that at work we have these new
MSO oscilloscopes from Tektronix that run Windows 7 on an embedded PC.
The things have amazing sampling rate and sample depth plus lots of
bells and whistled, but they... are... painfully... slow... to interact
with. You press one of the buttons around the screen to bring up a menu
and then wait for the better part of a second for it to respond. At home
I have a TDS3034b with an internal M68K running Tek's own firmware. It
responds pretty much instantly. Go figure. The old HP scopes were the
same way - instant to respond to button presses. I just don't get it -
why would anyone in their right mind WANT Windows on an oscilloscope? I
don't want to have to run anti-virus on my scope. Or install windows
updates. Or any of the other #$@%@#$^ that comes with maintaining a
Windows install. And for what? So I can run Excel on the oscilloscope
instead of my workstation? Actually, I would rather do my data
processing on my workstation which has a larger, readable, screen, thank
you. Agreed 100%. Those Winstruments are garbage. My assumption is that
the companies who have gone that route did so either due to kickbacks or
wanting to have cheaper developers working on the products.
Don't worry, there are enough real test instruments to last through
our lifetimes at least. Let the clueless kids flock to their
Winstruments, they'll probably install games on them anyway.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
The major culprit in bloat is OOP. Tables of pointers to tables of pointers to tables of pointers. In feature rich classes, all those tables of pointers take up a huge amount of memory. Not necessarily so - well designed class structures in C++ can and often will result in a smaller memory footprint than a traditional C application - stress being on well designed! A case in point was some code I wrote back in the day (early noughties) in C++. I had to re-implement it in C for one platform whose C++ compiler was not brilliant so the client said it had to be in C. The C code was about 50% larger and had a slightly larger working set (and yes I did work hard to keep both size and working set down). Multiple inheritance - probably the less used the better - it's one of those things in C++ that can really ruin your week. There are some situations where it can be helpful, but I've seen too many cases of slicing to want to use it unless I am caught between a rock and hard place, and generally there's a better way. Stupidly long compile times - if you don't use PImpl classes and other good OOD practices, you deserve to suffer! David -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Reginald Beardsley via groups.io Sent: 25 April 2020 00:56 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes At USENIX '95 in NOLA I got a 1.44 MB Plan 9 floppy with the OS, windowing system, editor and basic command line utilities and full Unicode support. I was very interested in Plan 9 because it intended to support 35,000 users. However, I had a long chat with Dennis Ritchie who told me that they had not implemented that yet and had been diverted to other projects. It was very different, but quite amazing. And is still running on a huge machine at one of the national labs. The major culprit in bloat is OOP. Tables of pointers to tables of pointers to tables of pointers. In feature rich classes, all those tables of pointers take up a huge amount of memory. My professional experience led me to conclude that very few programmers actually have any grasp of what the machine is doing when they write a line of code. Worse than that, if multiple inheritance is used it will require reading *all* the source code, the C++ language standard and the compiler implementation notes to determine what A = B + C; actually does. In such cases, the order of execution of constructors is "implementation defined". And the "+" operation is dependent upon the inherited traits of A, B & C and the perversity of the programmer. This is why I do not use C++ and will not work on C++ codes. I've brought 2.5 million lines of old C & FORTRAN back from the dead and never failed. I've never gotten a C++ code which was more than 1-2 years old to compile. It's probably better now as I've been retired from such misery for 15 years. But I've made very old C and FORTRAN codes run and fixed the bugs. Fundamentally because I knew exactly what the machine was supposed to do when it encountered a statement. I once wrote a string substitution in C and C++. Very simple, replace "aaa" with "bbb". The C version was 2/3 of a page. The C++ version took 3 pages. At the start of the project I posted a page from the book by John Lakos on large C++ systems where he pointed out the issues with pathological linker dependencies. It was ignored and I took it off my door after a few weeks. About 3 months later, the entire project ground to a complete halt as it would no longer compile overnight leading to urgent team meetings to fix the problem. I was quite amazed when one of the C++ developers pulled a copy of the page that had been on my door some months earlier out of his desk drawer. The team lead and the $100/hr C++ guru had ignored it. Reg
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Paul Bicknell
Dave McGuire
David C. Partridge