Re: Need Help Diagnosing an HP 8559A Spectrum Analyzer
Do check the small pc brd. on the upper left side of the 8559A (2 wires) and the corresponding connection on the 180C. If I recall correctly, this brd supplies the horizontal drive to the 180C/182T. (There may not be a connection on the 180C for the SA plug-ins).
Don Bitters
|
Hello,
I would hit the mentioned web site ipcas. If you cannot do
German, I am willing to do the translator.
With best regards
Tam HANNA
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On 2020. 02. 24. 4:13, John Lyles
wrote:
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I have the same VNA, and mine also has a dead FDD. I don't want to
go down the same avenue that Mr. Popa has so I am curious which of
the aftermarket USB flash drives would work there. I did see one
in a lab at CERN near Geneva last March, photo attached.
|
I have the same VNA, and mine also has a dead FDD. I don't want to go down the same avenue that Mr. Popa has so I am curious which of the aftermarket USB flash drives would work there. I did see one in a lab at CERN near Geneva last March, photo attached.
|
Re: HP 83595A Sweeper Plugin OP & Service-Manual
My experience with HP/Agilent and Gigatronics YIG’s/YTX’s/YTF’s/YTM’s shows that virtually all of them require the YTx device to reach operating temp - typically 100-105 degree C. The parameters that I have seen most affected were amplitude, flatness. The device loading the output when not at operating temp could radically alter the output level - almost always lower amplitude. While I was still working the guys at National Electronics, CA acquired the ability to fix most of the HP/Agilent/Keysight microcircuit assemblies. At that time most of the repairs on the “unobtanium” parts was significantly less than new purchase from Agilent/Keysight, if you could purchase at all. I believe that they hired a great many of the key engineers and technicians that were being laid off from the Agilent MWD division, Roseville, CA. If you can find their website, they had published repair prices for a great many of the microcircuit assemblies by HP/Agilent/Keysight PN’s. I last used their microcircuit repair services about 7 yrs. ago for an Agilent 8563E repair.
The HP Journal articles gave pretty detailed descriptions of the theory of operation, manufacture, for many of the HP creations including the HP 8350A/B and 83592A. There was also some HP Journal articles on the YIG, YTX, YTM microcircuits that were the heart of a lot of HP microwave gear back in the 1980’s.
Don Bitters
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Re: Need Help Diagnosing an HP 8559A Spectrum Analyzer
Hi Paul,
I can confirm that the horizontal control on the 180C is working. Also, the dot is roughly in the center of the CRT as I was attempting to perform the standard calibration procedure as is described in the HP 8559A's manual. I can adjust the vertical and horizontal position via the controls on the 180C and the 8559A.
I assume switching the 180C to EXT CAL and injecting a signal through its EXT INPUT connection is how you are suggesting I test it? (Please correct me if you meant something else).
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Re: hp 83592A problem further update
On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 05:44 PM, Ken Goodhew wrote:
band 0 is generated by mixing a local oscillator with the Yig output to get the 10Mhz to 2.4 Ghz band
Ken - YES! Exactly right. So I would verify the YIG output (AUX OUT connector), the output of the splitter after the YIG (A16), the output of the Local Oscillator (A11) and the output of the mixer (A18).
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Re: hp 83592A problem further update
Hi Mark, ??????????????? I do have a older and larger (read not portable) analyser that goes 0 to 26Ghz in my shack, just have to clear bench space to put the 8350B on the bench. If you read my last post but you will see the problem appears to only exists in band 0 which is 10Mhz to 2.4Ghz., so I do not think having a higher frequency spec analyser will help other than to see if the other bands have a similar problem at the start of the sweep from their low end of the band, ie: band 1-2-3. My take is that if I can solve the problem affecting band 0 it will also solve the problem, if any for the other bands. As I was typing this I realised that band 0 is generated by mixing a local oscillator with the Yig output to get the 10Mhz to 2.4 Ghz band , so if the problem did not appear in any of the higher bands it would mean that the problem was somehow related to the local oscillator. May have to check that. Ken.
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mark Bielman
Sent: Monday, 24 February 2020 11:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem further update ? Ken - I strongly suggest you borrow an analyzer with higher frequency to walk through this. Any possibility of that?
Mark
|
Re: Schaffner Filtered Power Entry Module (HP54504A 400MHz scope)
Hello,
pardon my aging brain, but AFAIK,
BTW, this scope also fails the Analog Trigger, DAC, and ADC
self-tests.? Any insights on how to rectify those?
is caused by dead NVRAM bat
With best regards
Tam HANNA
Enjoy electronics? Join 15k7 other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at
On 2020. 02. 24. 0:55, Jim Ford wrote:
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Hi, everybody.
I finally got around to opening up my 54504A scope to see if
it had the dreaded Schaffner filter.? No, it says Corcom on the
side.? Are the Corcom ones immune to the Rifa cap smokeout
failure?? I was going to check and replace it if necessary
because a coworker is doing a Mouser order in the next week or
so, and he asked me if I needed anything.
BTW, this scope also fails the Analog Trigger, DAC, and ADC
self-tests.? Any insights on how to rectify those?
Thanks.
Jim Ford
------ Original Message ------
Sent: 2/3/2020 8:42:35 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Schaffner
Filtered Power Entry Module (HP54504A 400MHz scope)
Greetings,
We have some custom equipment running on 208 VAC
60 Hz in the USA. ?We originally used Schaffner line filters
with rated voltage and current specifications allowing for
acceptable safety margins.
Several of these input filters exhibited
catastrophic failures.
Upon close examination we found that the
“plastic” insulator on one of the filter output terminals
appeared to suffer thermal damage (more or less melted)
allowing one of the line terminals to move through the
melting material and make contact with the grounded metal
housing. ?Thus the “big bang”.
I too recommend replacing the filter with a
different unit because it does protect the scope from
inbound transient noise.
Regards,
Ken
On 2Feb, 2020, at 3:35 PM, Paul Bicknell
< paul@...>
wrote:
Hi Andre
?
Most of us
have had this experience ?and as we use
240 volts in the?UK?we
see it quite often?
?
My best
advise is to replace it with a good
quality one from a reputable supplier
such as digekey ??but not amazon?
The worst
you could do is wire it out as the
filter also stops noise coming into the
equipment?
Paul?
?
Hi
I have the HP54504A 400MHz oscilloscope
whose filtered line input module
suffered catastrophic breakdown (a cloud
of smoke with brown goo emanating from
the on/off switch) I wonder if one can
use other versions of these online
filters or must it be the exact one viz.
FN393-2,5-05-12? Any idea what would
happen if I bypassed this filter
temporarily.?
Thanking you
AndreH?
No
virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -?
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database:
4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
|
Re: hp 83592A problem further update
Ken - I strongly suggest you borrow an analyzer with higher frequency to walk through this. Any possibility of that?
Mark
|
Re: hp 83592A problem further update
Hi all, ??????????????? Read the various posts from members with suggestions so I took them all in to account and tried again this morning. Attached is a picture from the out put of the 8350b with 20dbm of isolation between it and the spec analyser. The picture is a single sweep just after the 8350b starts its sweep from 10Mhz and shows the problem, multiple peaks instead of just one, these slowly reduce as the output signal heads toward about 1Ghz where they have all disappeared. The sweeper is set to 10 Mhz-1.8Ghz on a 10 second sweep. It is as if there is some sort of oscillation as it starts at 10Mhz which dies out at about 1Ghz but it is actually harmonics of the actual signal as the frequency of the multiple peaks is always an exact multiple of the generated frequency at the time. My suspicion is that there is a filter in the path to the output that is supposed to filter out theses harmonics but is not working correctly until the frequency hits 1ghz. If I set the sweep from 1Ghz to 1.8Ghz I get a normal output signal of one peak with some spurious peaks at -50Dbm which I would think was acceptable. The multiple peaks at the start of the sweep are upsetting the Alc (A4) giving me uncontrolled output of 22dbm, I can control the output when only sweeping the 1Ghz to 1.8Ghz but not if I start at 10Mhz. All this is happening in band 0 which is 10Mhz to 2.4Ghz. I do have an extender card that I borrowed of my son in Seattle Any suggestions? Ken ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mark Bielman
Sent: Monday, 24 February 2020 4:25 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem further update ? Hi Ken,
I am puzzled by this. The spectrum you show is with 100 MHz (or maybe 200) CW from the RF OUT of the sweeper?
Do you have extender cards for the plug-in? (who does!)
You may have to tap into points on the plug-in somehow and trace with your SA. Output from the YIG should be clean.
I have never opened mine but it looks like there are cables you could pull between assemblies.
Almost looks like something is non-linear (blown amp for example) and creating harmonics.
Could be anything in the chain I suppose... MOD/SPLITTER, MOD/MIXER, etc.
You could also try injecting RF (from sig gen) basically replacing the YIG. Just be sure to add a load to any output!
Mark
|
Re: Schaffner Filtered Power Entry Module (HP54504A 400MHz scope)
Hi, everybody.
I finally got around to opening up my 54504A scope to see if it had the dreaded Schaffner filter.? No, it says Corcom on the side.? Are the Corcom ones immune to the Rifa cap smokeout failure?? I was going to check and replace it if necessary because a coworker is doing a Mouser order in the next week or so, and he asked me if I needed anything.
BTW, this scope also fails the Analog Trigger, DAC, and ADC self-tests.? Any insights on how to rectify those?
Thanks.
Jim Ford
------ Original Message ------
Sent: 2/3/2020 8:42:35 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Schaffner Filtered Power Entry Module (HP54504A 400MHz scope)
Greetings,
We have some custom equipment running on 208 VAC 60 Hz in the USA. ?We originally used Schaffner line filters with rated voltage and current specifications allowing for acceptable safety margins.
Several of these input filters exhibited catastrophic failures.
Upon close examination we found that the “plastic” insulator on one of the filter output terminals appeared to suffer thermal damage (more or less melted) allowing one of the line terminals to move through the melting material and make contact with the grounded metal housing. ?Thus the “big bang”.
I too recommend replacing the filter with a different unit because it does protect the scope from inbound transient noise.
Regards,
Ken
On 2Feb, 2020, at 3:35 PM, Paul Bicknell < paul@...> wrote:
Hi Andre ? Most of us have had this experience ?and as we use 240 volts in the?UK?we see it quite often? ? My best advise is to replace it with a good quality one from a reputable supplier such as digekey ??but not amazon? The worst you could do is wire it out as the filter also stops noise coming into the equipment? Paul? ? Hi
I have the HP54504A 400MHz oscilloscope whose filtered line input module suffered catastrophic breakdown (a cloud of smoke with brown goo emanating from the on/off switch) I wonder if one can use other versions of these online filters or must it be the exact one viz. FN393-2,5-05-12? Any idea what would happen if I bypassed this filter temporarily.?
Thanking you
AndreH? No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -?
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
|
Hi Ken
?
You say (on
the way home yesterday I brought a N to SMA adaptor )
?
You are lucky as in the uk that would
be imposable from a high street store or amateur radio store ?
?
Radio spares would be the only retailer to
pick up from but we do have Farnell & dige key by mail
?
We still have people in the UK that think
the PL259 connector is good for UHF then complain when there SWR is out at 23 CM
?
Paul UK
?
?
Seems like you are onto it now Ken.
??Yes, digging round in the guts of this “old but good”
gear can be darned awkward sometimes-hope you can get things sorted. ?Lets
know how you get on.
Cheers
DaveB, NZ
?
?
Hi Dave
??????????????
Checked the signals and they are all exactly harmonically related, dropping the
input to the spec analyzer by 9db with fixed attenuators just lowers the
signals by 9db so it is not overdriving the spec analyzer
Setting the generator to 600 mhz does lower the harmonics but they are
then 600 mhz apart
By the time I get to 1ghz the harmonics are -40 db down from the
fundamental which is not too bad
So whatever is causing the problem, which the service manual suggest
could be low drive in to the internal mixer, is only mainly affecting the lower
portion of band 0 below about 500 mhz to any great extent.
Time to measure the 3.9 ghz ?signal level into the mixer which I
tried to do yesterday but with the cables I had I had to use a 2m length of
rg58 to get the right connectors so the attenuation at that frequency would be
pretty high.
Trying to find some figure was impossible so I took a wild guess at the
figure and came up with about 5 db when added to the level of 5.4 db I measured
means the signal is only about 10.4 db well below the 13.5 db specified.
So on the way home yesterday I brought a N to SMA adaptor so I
?can put the power sensor right at the end of the hard line to measure the
input into the mixer.
If that signal is low then I need to chase back through the circuit to
see where it is being lost.
I have had to mechanically dismantle some of the case to get to the
hard line SMA connectors as it is tucked in under the side rails of the chassis
Hope it is not one of those modules down there in the RF section as the
manual warns that they are not repairable and very expensive and by now
probably unobtainium other than from a parts unit.
Will advise further
Ken
VK2TKE
Sent from
for Windows 10
?
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Show quoted text
From: Dave Brown
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020
6:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re:
[HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem
?
Been away all day Ken- just back. If
that? CW signal is producing multiple sigs ?on the spec an then it
should be easy enuff to check if they are harmonically related to the
fundamental. I see you are using 3MHZ RBW so incidental FM etc on the sweeper
output shouldn’t be causing any confusion. If you have multiple sigs, see
if they reduce significantly with higher freq ?ones reducing the most when
you drop the input to the spec an. They may not, but worth it to check.
?If they do reduce then its just? an overdriven spec an mixer causing
much of the issue. ??If they are NOT harmonically related to the
?CW sig ex the sweeper then ?you probably need to dig further into
the 8350/plugin. Do you get much the same result with the CW sig set much
higher, say to around 600 MHz?
?Not sure all ?this addresses
your original issue where the signals on the spec an were all a more or less
constant 120 MHz or so apart up to 1.8 GHz- but sort this one first. ?
?DaveB, NZ
?
?
?
Thanks Jim will let you know, would be probably to measure signal
levels as it appears that the problem is related to harmonics in band 0 so I
have to measure a few signals to see if they are correct before proceeding
further.
Ken.
?
?
I have an 8350B and 83592B plug-in, both in perfect working order, as
far as I know.? I don't mind ;) taking mine apart if there's something you
want me to check vs your ailing beast.? Also 8566A spec an to check output
purity etc.
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy
smartphone
-------- Original message --------
Date: 2/20/20 3:19 AM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re:
[HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem
set 8350b to 15 mhz cw and did a single sweep on the spectrum analyzer
and it produced a similar waveform to the previous picture, just a bit more
squashed up.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
|
Re: OT: Altera Stratix V FPGA design, use ...
Nope, I use Xilinx Spartan6 and Spartan 3AN.
What I remember of Altera (and I did use them for something
simple a long while ago) is that the flavors of VHDL between the
two manufacturers are almost the same.? Key word being almost.
Having said that, there's probably stuff that is common when
bypassing the chips for the hardware design.? The nuances of using
their subsystems, can't help with.
Harvey
On 2/23/2020 4:15 PM, garp6 wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
hi,
OT:? ? ?Has anyone designed around or used the Altera Stratix V
FPGA series ?
thank you,
|
Re: HP 83595A Sweeper Plugin OP & Service-Manual
Hi OK Threatening the YTM
with disassembly
?
I bought an EIP counter it wasn’t working? so
I found a service manual had it scanned made a hard copy and bound
it? put the counter on the bench and the service manual next to it
Swathed on the counter and it worked ?so I think test equipment is
?intelligent when it wants to be
?
Sorry for the long tail but it was one of those times
?
Regarding the heater depending on the ambient temperature you might get
away without the heater
But I suggest you read up about the settings for the tracking of the yig
tuned multiplier
as if it is like the one for the 8620 you will require 2 sets of decade
resisters to set it up
so worth wile getting the tools before you start
?
Paul
?
Thanks Paul,
but I think you do not need to do it. Threatening the YTM with disassembly has
done the trick.
Actually, I desoldered the epoxy-coated connections to the YIG-Coil. After
doing that, I wonted to check, which part of the coil (there are two) is having
the connection to GND.
I measured no resistance to GND anymore, so I reassembled the plugin, and guess
what? It works. :) Frequency is within the (quite generous) spec of +- 12 MHz
for the highest band, my counter says something about -3,5 MHz for 22 GHz.
What is obviously not working: The Heater of the YTM. Before the YTM got quite
warm (actually hot), now it stays cool. I think there's good reasons for this
unit to be temperature-stabilized.
Can anybody comment, if I need to take action or just live with it?
If it is a problem, I could extract the temperature from the circuit and attach
an external heating element (aka power-resistor :) ) to solve this issue, maybe
even use the existing curcuit. A bit of a hack, but since the YTM is rather
rare....
My theory is, that the heater has overheated (maybe the
temperature-controller-circuit is faulty) and somehow damaged some Isolation to
create the short-circuit.
Best Regrads,
Martin
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
|
Won an 8751A on EBay, for rather cheap, after a competitive auction. Has HP Basic as an Option. Received the instrument in good condition and noted the floppy is not working properly, sometimes it will prompt "media is write protected", then after re-inserting the floppy "media corrupt", sometimes it formats (LIF or DOS) the floppy, sometimes fails randomly, clearly needs a replacement. Model is Sony MP-F17W-H1. Searched all over the place, no documentation about this model to be found.
Fortunately replacing the floppy hardware is easy, bottom panel out, four nuts out and here falls into your lap. Having a few Sony 1.44 floppy drives around, I tried to replace after re-configuring for SEL-0 (the default was SEL-1). No good, when attempting to format, the floppy ight comes up a few seconds, then the 8751 reports "hardware error". Tried another Sony unit, same message.
Got a Gotek 1.44 floppy emulator from Amazon, configured for SEL-0, same light timing, same error.
In all cases, the floppy is powered up correctly from the separate 4 pin connector. I thought the 34 pin floppy connector is standard, apparently not so... Found this blurb in the Keysight forum https://community.keysight.com/thread/19521 apparently the guy claims the MP-F17W-H1 floppy connector is non standard, but then at a closer look the information he is providing appears contradictory, since the MP-F17W-H1 pin out he is providing is exactly the standard 34 pin floppy connector???
Long story short, has anybody successfully replaced the 8751A floppy, either with another floppy model or a floppy emulator? What would it take? I've replaced a gazillion of floppy drives of al kinds before, including with 720k DD emulator, but never saw such a stubborn unit.?
|
OT: Altera Stratix V FPGA design, use ...
hi,
OT:? ? ?Has anyone designed around or used the Altera Stratix V FPGA series ?
thank you,
|
Re: hp 83592A problem further update
Hi Mark, ??????????????? Yes I have checked the Aux output on the rear of the plug in but as you stated I cannot do it with my spec analyser as the frequency is to high for my 1.8 Ghz limit, however it is supposed to be 0Dbm but my power meter reads over +5Dbm which I am assuming is because of the multiple peaks I am seeing and the thermocouple sensor reading the total combined power rather than the peak power. Ken. ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mark Bielman
Sent: Monday, 24 February 2020 4:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem further update ? I had forgotten that the YIG output also goes to the AUX connector on the back.
Have you checked that? Or maybe your SA is hi-end limited... I do not remember.
Mark
|
Re: hp 83592A problem further update
Hi All,
Quickly did the last test on my way to bed last night after reading Dave,s post , (notice the spectrum analyser oven was cold)
May have misled you as that screen shot was of the 8350B rf output when set to 200 Mhz CW and not the output of the A17 amplifier as I had reconnected all the hard line previously and was looking at the output.
The +22 dbm output is the full unleveled power which is one of the initial problems, the other being the multiple harmonics in band 0.
Dave I have a printed copy of the original operating/service manual that I downloaded from the Keysight website that I am using.
Ken.
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave_G0WBX via Groups.Io Sent: Sunday, 23 February 2020 9:05 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem further update To me, that looks like a 100MHz calibration check signal, intentionally with harmonics. But running at some +22dBm (over 150mW!) at 100MHz? (25dBm reference level, and 10dB/division.) It's not a reference clock pulse train is it? There is a PDF service manual, including schematics available at:- 73 Dave G0WBX. -- Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software:
|
Re: hp 83592A problem further update
I had forgotten that the YIG output also goes to the AUX connector on the back.
Have you checked that? Or maybe your SA is hi-end limited... I do not remember.
Mark
|
Re: HP 83595A Sweeper Plugin OP & Service-Manual
Thanks Paul,
but I think you do not need to do it. Threatening the YTM with disassembly has done the trick.
Actually, I desoldered the epoxy-coated connections to the YIG-Coil. After doing that, I wonted to check, which part of the coil (there are two) is having the connection to GND.
I measured no resistance to GND anymore, so I reassembled the plugin, and guess what? It works. :) Frequency is within the (quite generous) spec of +- 12 MHz for the highest band, my counter says something about -3,5 MHz for 22 GHz.
What is obviously not working: The Heater of the YTM. Before the YTM got quite warm (actually hot), now it stays cool. I think there's good reasons for this unit to be temperature-stabilized.
Can anybody comment, if I need to take action or just live with it?
If it is a problem, I could extract the temperature from the circuit and attach an external heating element (aka power-resistor :) ) to solve this issue, maybe even use the existing curcuit. A bit of a hack, but since the YTM is rather rare....
My theory is, that the heater has overheated (maybe the temperature-controller-circuit is faulty) and somehow damaged some Isolation to create the short-circuit.
Best Regrads,
Martin
|
Paul Bicknell
Martin Rickes