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Re: HP8568B Error Correction Routine failure

STEVE REEVES
 

Looks like a bad 20 dB element in the RF step attenuator ( It has 3 sections: 10, 20 and 40 dB for a total of 70 dB).

Steve




________________________________
From: John Miles <jmiles@...>
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 6:45:26 PM
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP8568B Error Correction Routine failure

?
It does :-(

CF 20 MHz
SPAN 100 kHz
RBW 1 kHz
VBW 1 kHz
REF LEVEL -10dBm

ATTEN 10 dB --> Peak at -10.60 dBm
ATTEN 20 dB --> Peak at - 7.70 dBm(out screen)
ATTEN 30 dB --> Peak at - 7.00 dBm(out screen)
ATTEN 40 dB --> Peak at -10.90 dBm
ATTEN 50 dB --> Peak at -10.90 dBm
ATTEN 60 dB --> Peak at - 7.70 dBm(out screen)
ATTEN 70 dB --> Peak at - 7.70 dBm(out screen)

Can I do anything to fix the problem ?
Because the error is small, it really sounds to me like an IF gain problem
rather than a bad attenuator element. I would try to go through the IF
calibration procedure in the display section service manual, and look for
signs of the problem there.

For instance, assume the 8568's attenuator has 10, 20, and 30 dB sections.
(I'm not sure what they actually are, offhand.) For RF ATTEN settings that
require a 20-dB pad to be switched in, a corresponding 20-dB amplifier stage
has to be enabled to keep the reference level constant. If the gain of that
stage is a couple dB off, that would explain what you're seeing.

Ideally you could rule out the RF attenuator by observing the amplitude at
the input to the IF section with another receiver or analyzer as you go
through the 10 dB steps. (Another way to do that is to substitute the
output of a calibrated signal generator for the RF section's IF output.)

-- john, KE5FX
Re: HP8568B Error Correction Routine failure

STEVE REEVES
 

Did you try adjusting the front panel AMPLITUDE CAL on the RF section for -10.00 dBm on the display while viewing recall 8 ? Does it have enough adjustment range above and below - 10 dBm?

Steve




________________________________
From: John Miles <jmiles@...>
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 3:29:37 PM
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP8568B Error Correction Routine failure

?
No, it doesn't have anything to do with the 2nd LO. There's a
gain-adjustment stage that isn't responding properly somewhere -- either in
the IF amp section, or in the RF attenuator itself.

Try putting the calibrator onscreen (CF 20 MHz, SPAN 100 kHz, REF LEVEL -10
dBm) and hitting the up and down arrows to step the RF ATTEN setting from 10
to 70 dB. The calibrator's amplitude shouldn't vary more than a dB at any
point. If it does, then that is probably what's causing the self-cal to
fail. If it remains steady at all RF attenuator settings, look for the
problem in the IF gain-step control circuits in the display section.

-- john, KE5FX

-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipmen t@yahoogroups. com
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipmen t@yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Jim Popwell Jr
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 12:06 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipmen t@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_ equipment] HP8568B Error Correction Routine
failure


it looks as if the analyzer is telling you to adjust the 2nd local
oscillator amplitude down a little to bring it into a range where the
autocal routine can handle it... check the 2nd lo cal section in your
manual

jim


On Sep 27, 2009, at 11:46 AM, ik7jwy wrote:

HI,
yesterday I discovered this trouble on my HP8568B spectrum analyzer.
When I put ON the S.A. everything works fine , the two red leds
INSTR CHECK light for a while, then come back OFF. No error message
on the display.
I perform the two routines RECALL REG 8 and RECALL REG 9 and
everything continues to sounds good.
But, when I go to the Error Correction Routine (SHIFT+W) then I see
the failure. At the end of the routine I see on the display this
message "ADJUST AMPTD CAL", instead of "COOR'D", and all the
parameters (RBW, REF Level and so on) don't come back to the Preset.
You can see here what happens:

. tv/recorded/ 2237690

If I start again the routine, at the end I get the same result.

Any idea ? Thanks.

Art IK7JWY




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: replacement for transistor 1854-0232

 

Hello,
The following web site () show that the 1854-0232 is a 2N3440. Good luck. Victor

--- On Sun, 9/27/09, fredschneider2001 <fredschneider@...> wrote:

From: fredschneider2001 <fredschneider@...>
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] replacement for transistor 1854-0232
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 7:15 PM






?





Does someone has the equivalent for the 1854-0232 transistor. It is in the 178V powersupply of a 5326 nixie counter. Now my nixie are at 217V and I do not like that thought ;-) This is the last fault in this counter. The rest I solved. I have some cross reference lists but this one is not in there.



Fred































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Options for CISPR 25 EMI Test Instrument ?

[email protected]
 

I need to do CISPR 25 conducted emissions tests and
would like to leverage the equipment I have. That
list includes HP 8590A(with HPIB opt) and 8568B. These
are the most modern spectrum analyzers I own.
Neither of these have the EMI test options (H51 and
462 respectively) but I'm doubtful that the 8590A
option was ever intended to be used for CISPR tests
anyway.

Is the 8590A capable of doing those tests? If so,
where would I acquire the software to enable that?
If it can but there is no software, any
recommendations of language and template to leverage
to write it?
And if so, where do I find the procedure for
adjusting the 8590A for impulse bandwidths? Last,
what other instruments would I need to complement?

Next, if I'm barking up the proverbial wrong tree
with the 8590A, my next hope would be to use the
8568B. But, as it is not already an option 462 where
do I find the procedure to make it so? I also
understand that to do these tests per original HP
system, I need a 85650A Quasi-Peak Detector, an
appropriate computer platform and some software akin
to, if not the HP 85864(?) or 85869(?) to automate
the needed tests.
Does anyone have leads for a reasonably priced
source for those?

I might consider acquiring an 859XB and the
appropriate personality card(s) or other brands or
(considering CISPR 25 only tests 150 KHz to 108 MHz)
lower frequency range instruments to do these tests
if anyone has a reasonable suggestion.

TIA,
Mark Hawk
WTB: Service manual for Gigatronics 7100 Sig Gen

 

I'm in need of a service manual for Giga-tronics 7100.

I believe this is a 2 volume set. Found a co in UK advertising these but they came back and said they have only vol 1 (no schematics).

Thanks.
replacement for transistor 1854-0232

 

Does someone has the equivalent for the 1854-0232 transistor. It is in the 178V powersupply of a 5326 nixie counter. Now my nixie are at 217V and I do not like that thought ;-) This is the last fault in this counter. The rest I solved. I have some cross reference lists but this one is not in there.

Fred
Re: HP8568B Error Correction Routine failure

John Miles
 

It does :-(

CF 20 MHz
SPAN 100 kHz
RBW 1 kHz
VBW 1 kHz
REF LEVEL -10dBm

ATTEN 10 dB --> Peak at -10.60 dBm
ATTEN 20 dB --> Peak at - 7.70 dBm(out screen)
ATTEN 30 dB --> Peak at - 7.00 dBm(out screen)
ATTEN 40 dB --> Peak at -10.90 dBm
ATTEN 50 dB --> Peak at -10.90 dBm
ATTEN 60 dB --> Peak at - 7.70 dBm(out screen)
ATTEN 70 dB --> Peak at - 7.70 dBm(out screen)

Can I do anything to fix the problem ?
Because the error is small, it really sounds to me like an IF gain problem
rather than a bad attenuator element. I would try to go through the IF
calibration procedure in the display section service manual, and look for
signs of the problem there.

For instance, assume the 8568's attenuator has 10, 20, and 30 dB sections.
(I'm not sure what they actually are, offhand.) For RF ATTEN settings that
require a 20-dB pad to be switched in, a corresponding 20-dB amplifier stage
has to be enabled to keep the reference level constant. If the gain of that
stage is a couple dB off, that would explain what you're seeing.

Ideally you could rule out the RF attenuator by observing the amplitude at
the input to the IF section with another receiver or analyzer as you go
through the 10 dB steps. (Another way to do that is to substitute the
output of a calibrated signal generator for the RF section's IF output.)

-- john, KE5FX
Re: HP-182C repair

 

I may not be much help -- my 182T might be different than the 182C you have.

In mine, the tube has three pins/wires coming out of the bottom; they are the vertical deflection and mesh (focus) pins and go to a board below the tube. The two vertical wires go to a gray cable and down to the plug in board in the rear.

Two pins coming from the top have wires going to the horizontal deflection amp on the right side (looking at the front). When the beam is centered, those two have zero volts between them, when the beam is on the side they are about 48 Volts.

Three pins coming out the side are the flood (graticule illuminator), not related to your problem. They also go to the board below the tube.

There are two compensation circuits, trace align and y-align that go to metal rings around the tube. If either of those circuits were not working (especially the trace align) you might have a problem. They don't use the vertical plates, they are magnetic coils.

By the way, you can get a horizontal line (rather than just a dot) by injecting a signal of 100 to 500 Hz or so into the external input. That might help.

The only other thing I can think of is that something magnetic (or accidentally magnetized) is near your unit. It would have to be really strong, though!

Erich

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., francesco messineo <francesco.messineo@...> wrote:

Hello Erich,

first of all thanks for the answer!

On 9/27/09, erich_schlecht <schlechtca@...> wrote:
Frank,

These things often have several to many bad resistors in the high-voltage
sections, which includes the deflection amplifiers, focusing and intensity
section and power supplies.
yes, it happened on some other scopes, but I did check all the
high-voltage resistors and they seem in the correct tolerance range.
Also focus, cathode, grid voltages look normal.

You may have tried this, but it sounds like the signals are feeding back
through the power supplies, maybe the 100 volt? Have you checked these
voltages, especially while adjusting the controls that cause the symptoms. I
would start with the horizontal control causing a curved trace. Check the
voltages on the power supplies as you move the control. Also see if the
vertical plate voltages change as you rotate the horizontal control.
All low voltage supply are dead stable while I move all controls.
I checked also the vertical plate voltage with no plugin on the
connections on the lateral slide of the mainframe (green and white
wires). They always both remain at 0V no matter how I set controls. Of
course when connecting the multimeter probe to those contacts I see a
little vertical deflection due to noise coupled with the plates.
Distortion is always there.

I'm not saying it's not the CRT, just that it doesn't really sound like it
to me, and it's worth trying the other cheap things first.
I really whish it isn't the CRT, that's probably the only thing not
worth fixing in a mainframe like this :/

Thanks again, I guess I need more hints now. I don't really know where
to poke around looking for electronic faults.

Frank IZ8DWF
Re: HP8568B Error Correction Routine failure

 

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "John Miles" <jmiles@...> wrote:

Try putting the calibrator onscreen (CF 20 MHz, SPAN 100 kHz, REF LEVEL -10
dBm) and hitting the up and down arrows to step the RF ATTEN setting from 10
to 70 dB. The calibrator's amplitude shouldn't vary more than a dB at any
point. If it does, then that is probably what's causing the self-cal to
fail.

It does :-(

CF 20 MHz
SPAN 100 kHz
RBW 1 kHz
VBW 1 kHz
REF LEVEL -10dBm

ATTEN 10 dB --> Peak at -10.60 dBm
ATTEN 20 dB --> Peak at - 7.70 dBm(out screen)
ATTEN 30 dB --> Peak at - 7.00 dBm(out screen)
ATTEN 40 dB --> Peak at -10.90 dBm
ATTEN 50 dB --> Peak at -10.90 dBm
ATTEN 60 dB --> Peak at - 7.70 dBm(out screen)
ATTEN 70 dB --> Peak at - 7.70 dBm(out screen)

Can I do anything to fix the problem ?

Art IK7JWY
Re: HP8568B Error Correction Routine failure

John Miles
 

No, it doesn't have anything to do with the 2nd LO. There's a
gain-adjustment stage that isn't responding properly somewhere -- either in
the IF amp section, or in the RF attenuator itself.

Try putting the calibrator onscreen (CF 20 MHz, SPAN 100 kHz, REF LEVEL -10
dBm) and hitting the up and down arrows to step the RF ATTEN setting from 10
to 70 dB. The calibrator's amplitude shouldn't vary more than a dB at any
point. If it does, then that is probably what's causing the self-cal to
fail. If it remains steady at all RF attenuator settings, look for the
problem in the IF gain-step control circuits in the display section.

-- john, KE5FX

-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...]On Behalf Of Jim Popwell Jr
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 12:06 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP8568B Error Correction Routine
failure


it looks as if the analyzer is telling you to adjust the 2nd local
oscillator amplitude down a little to bring it into a range where the
autocal routine can handle it... check the 2nd lo cal section in your
manual

jim


On Sep 27, 2009, at 11:46 AM, ik7jwy wrote:

HI,
yesterday I discovered this trouble on my HP8568B spectrum analyzer.
When I put ON the S.A. everything works fine , the two red leds
INSTR CHECK light for a while, then come back OFF. No error message
on the display.
I perform the two routines RECALL REG 8 and RECALL REG 9 and
everything continues to sounds good.
But, when I go to the Error Correction Routine (SHIFT+W) then I see
the failure. At the end of the routine I see on the display this
message "ADJUST AMPTD CAL", instead of "COOR'D", and all the
parameters (RBW, REF Level and so on) don't come back to the Preset.
You can see here what happens:



If I start again the routine, at the end I get the same result.

Any idea ? Thanks.

Art IK7JWY
Re: HP8568B Error Correction Routine failure

Jim Popwell Jr
 

it looks as if the analyzer is telling you to adjust the 2nd local
oscillator amplitude down a little to bring it into a range where the
autocal routine can handle it... check the 2nd lo cal section in your
manual

jim

On Sep 27, 2009, at 11:46 AM, ik7jwy wrote:

HI,
yesterday I discovered this trouble on my HP8568B spectrum analyzer.
When I put ON the S.A. everything works fine , the two red leds
INSTR CHECK light for a while, then come back OFF. No error message
on the display.
I perform the two routines RECALL REG 8 and RECALL REG 9 and
everything continues to sounds good.
But, when I go to the Error Correction Routine (SHIFT+W) then I see
the failure. At the end of the routine I see on the display this
message "ADJUST AMPTD CAL", instead of "COOR'D", and all the
parameters (RBW, REF Level and so on) don't come back to the Preset.
You can see here what happens:



If I start again the routine, at the end I get the same result.

Any idea ? Thanks.

Art IK7JWY
HP8568B Error Correction Routine failure

 

HI,
yesterday I discovered this trouble on my HP8568B spectrum analyzer. When I put ON the S.A. everything works fine , the two red leds INSTR CHECK light for a while, then come back OFF. No error message on the display.
I perform the two routines RECALL REG 8 and RECALL REG 9 and everything continues to sounds good.
But, when I go to the Error Correction Routine (SHIFT+W) then I see the failure. At the end of the routine I see on the display this message "ADJUST AMPTD CAL", instead of "COOR'D", and all the parameters (RBW, REF Level and so on) don't come back to the Preset.
You can see here what happens:



If I start again the routine, at the end I get the same result.

Any idea ? Thanks.

Art IK7JWY
NOISE FIGURE TEST HP 8971C ........

Ren??
 

Hello everybody,

HP 8971B Re: who could give me the features (GAIN and N / F) of the IF amplifier 10-700 Mhz Avantek SCB4-2837??
Thank you for your responses.

73's : Ren¨¦ F6BKB.
Re: HP-182C repair

 

Hello Erich,

first of all thanks for the answer!

On 9/27/09, erich_schlecht <schlechtca@...> wrote:
Frank,

These things often have several to many bad resistors in the high-voltage
sections, which includes the deflection amplifiers, focusing and intensity
section and power supplies.
yes, it happened on some other scopes, but I did check all the
high-voltage resistors and they seem in the correct tolerance range.
Also focus, cathode, grid voltages look normal.

You may have tried this, but it sounds like the signals are feeding back
through the power supplies, maybe the 100 volt? Have you checked these
voltages, especially while adjusting the controls that cause the symptoms. I
would start with the horizontal control causing a curved trace. Check the
voltages on the power supplies as you move the control. Also see if the
vertical plate voltages change as you rotate the horizontal control.
All low voltage supply are dead stable while I move all controls.
I checked also the vertical plate voltage with no plugin on the
connections on the lateral slide of the mainframe (green and white
wires). They always both remain at 0V no matter how I set controls. Of
course when connecting the multimeter probe to those contacts I see a
little vertical deflection due to noise coupled with the plates.
Distortion is always there.

I'm not saying it's not the CRT, just that it doesn't really sound like it
to me, and it's worth trying the other cheap things first.
I really whish it isn't the CRT, that's probably the only thing not
worth fixing in a mainframe like this :/

Thanks again, I guess I need more hints now. I don't really know where
to poke around looking for electronic faults.

Frank IZ8DWF
Re: HP-182C repair

 

Frank,

These things often have several to many bad resistors in the high-voltage sections, which includes the deflection amplifiers, focusing and intensity section and power supplies.

You may have tried this, but it sounds like the signals are feeding back through the power supplies, maybe the 100 volt? Have you checked these voltages, especially while adjusting the controls that cause the symptoms. I would start with the horizontal control causing a curved trace. Check the voltages on the power supplies as you move the control. Also see if the vertical plate voltages change as you rotate the horizontal control.

I'm not saying it's not the CRT, just that it doesn't really sound like it to me, and it's worth trying the other cheap things first.

Erich

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., francesco messineo <francesco.messineo@...> wrote:

Hi all,

just an update, I found an open resistor on the gate amplifier board,
A7R28, it's in the path to the control grid.
After replacing it I have a spot, rather large and almost can't be
focused correctly.
Now intensity kind of works, but moves the spot with varying intensity.
Also horizontal position works, but the spot moves on a curved path
and focusing varies through the path.
The more I think about it the more I suspect a bad CRT.
As always any hint is welcome.

best regards
Frank
FS: GPIB cables, TM5006 RackMount, Tektronix K420 cart

Howard Ashcraft
 

I have been consolidating the shop and have the following available.


GPIB Cables (all were installed and working until I disassembled a rack
today.

(1) HP9220R 12" GPIB $7.50
(2) HP108331 48" GPIB $12.00, each

TM5006 Rack Mount $45.00 (I was using this unit until 1 week ago, when I
sold the modules in the rack)

Tektronix K420 equipment cart with straps $75

All prices are based on pickup in Alameda, California. Shipping at cost
(including packing, if required). K420 will not be shipped and is only
available for pick-up.

email me off list if you want any of these items.
545xx scope fails time null cal

Alexander Whiplash
 

I was running through the cal procedure for a 54522A and it completes everything with a pass except for the time null cal on "chan 1 & ext" with a code of 0000 0000 0001 0001. Does anyone know what this code means, or if this is something that is practical repair ? I posted a similar inquiry on the Agilent scope forum but so far no comments. Thanks for any tips.

AW
Re: HP 3575A

snurfl
 

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "m8jpk" <ttesenq@...> wrote:

Hello Folks
I am trying to Source the following HP Parts
Any Advice or Offers most appreciated.
1826-0195
1820-1252
1820-0944
Thanks M8JPK

The 1820-0944 is a CD4025
The 1820-1252 is a LD110CJ
The 1826-0195 is a LD111CJ

The CD4025 is easy enough to find; but the LD110 and LD111 are going to be really, really hard to find. They weren't in production all that long, and were hard to find even while the were being produced. Best bet on those two is to find a donor multimeter somewhere and salvage them.

Cheers!!
Dave M
HP 3575A

 

Hello Folks
I am trying to Source the following HP Parts
Any Advice or Offers most appreciated.
1826-0195
1820-1252
1820-0944
Thanks M8JPK
Re: HP-182C repair

 

Hi all,

just an update, I found an open resistor on the gate amplifier board,
A7R28, it's in the path to the control grid.
After replacing it I have a spot, rather large and almost can't be
focused correctly.
Now intensity kind of works, but moves the spot with varying intensity.
Also horizontal position works, but the spot moves on a curved path
and focusing varies through the path.
The more I think about it the more I suspect a bad CRT.
As always any hint is welcome.

best regards
Frank

On 9/26/09, francesco messineo <francesco.messineo@...> wrote:
Hi Ken,

thanks for the answer, my findings after your test follow

On 9/26/09, ken chalfant <kpchalfant@...> wrote:
Greetings Frank,

Please advise as to the plug-ins you have in the main frame.
for now, no plugins installed, until at least I can see something on
the CRT. The other mainframe shows a spot even with no plugins if I
set to ext display.


I can't remember for certain - the 182C is not storage - correct?
right, it's not storage.


What happens when you depress the "BEAM FINDER"?
nothing happens.


What happens when you depress the "BEAM FINDER" and move both the X and Y
position knobs?
nothing seen, with no plugins I have only the horizontal knob anyway.


Please turn the intensity up to very bright - just once - and power the
unit
OFF. Does the off screen dot move toward the center of the CRT before it
fades away?
no, and probably it's not an off screen dot since I can see it only
when turning the scale illumination knob, not the intensity.
However if I have the intensity up and I power on the mainframe I see
a fast spot moving and disappearing in less than one second.
Maybe a problem on the intensity circuitry?


Let's see if we can figure out why it does not want to behave.
I hope so :-)


Warm regards,
thanks a lot and best regards

Frank

Ken

----- Original Message -----
From: francesco messineo<mailto:francesco.messineo@...>
To: hp_agilent_equipment<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:55 PM
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP-182C repair


Hello all,

I'm trying to revive a 182C oscilloscope. I have the service manual,
but it's for a different serial group. I think it should be enough
close anyway.
So far I've checked and set all low voltages and the cathode voltage.
Then I tried to set the intensity limit but there's no visible spot on
the CRT (I checked on another working 182T and with the same controls
set there's a spot and can be moved with horizontal position).
It seems there's a spot just off screen around the lower right corner
of the CRT, however it doesn't move with horizontal control.
I checked the control grid and focus voltages and they seem to be ok,
also the grid voltage changes with the intensity limit trimmer.
On the first two times I powered the scope I heard crackling sounds
and seen some "lightning-like" tracks on the CRT, the next times it
didn't make any sound or firework on the screen.
Now I think I should start to troubleshoot vertical and horizontal
drivers, but the cracks and fireworks made me wonder about the CRT,
can it be damaged?
Please don't suggest me to swap the CRT with the working unit, I just
tried to remove the connections on the neck but they seem stuck and
I'm afraid I can damage the glass.
I'm seeking for hints and advices, if the CRT is likely damaged I'm
going to sell the old thing for spares and not spend more time with
it.

Thanks in advance and best regards

Frank IZ8DWF
127841 - 127860 of 151508