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Hello group,
After year of a good service our HP 8565E is getting some illness. I have tried to look to 8560x service manual which was available, but the error numbers, which the 8565E gives are not there.
I am getting following error:
ERR 340 SAMP AGC
ERR 338 LOMA AGC
ERR 319 WARN COA
ERR 351 setrl
some of the texts could be wrong read, the errors display one over each other and they are not easily readable.

The frequency display seems to be unstable, jumping erratically in the range of 100Mhz around the correct frequency.
The errors are seen just after switch up, when displaying full sweep, and after some time it is when greater span is used (above 100MHz), below that span it seems to be stable.
I suppose it is something with YIG or frequency synth....

I will appreciate, if somebody could interpret those errors for me, or even better, if somebody knows a reliable source, where the service manual could be bought or downloaded.
I have looked to Artekmedia, but I have not found it there.

Thanks for reading and will be gratefull for any info,
OK1VAW, Vojtech, Prague.

I've worked on a lot of these in the past 25 years and have found the step attenuator to be one of the weak areas, especially since it's an electro-mechanical part. The internal O-rings age and get gummy and stick. The contacts that turn off solenoid current get intermittent. And a strange thing that I have found is the U-channel that encloses the solenoid will develop a magnetic attraction mostly on the bottom end that can stick the section. An easy fix for this is to loosen the 2 hex-head screws and carefully slide the U-shaped piece out sideways. Then affix a piece of transparent tape to the inside bottom of this piece and trim the tape edges flush.? This is also a good time to check and clean the solenoid contacts (not the attenuator contacts).
Re-assemble and test.

Steve




________________________________
From: John Miles <jmiles@...>
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:43:15 PM
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP8568B Error Correction Routine failure

?

Sounds like the driver for the 20 dB pad is stuck on, although
I'm not sure
how that accounts for the -7.7 dBm business (Why isn't it -10?
Attenuators
don't fail in a way that yields +2.3 dB of unexpected gain.)

They do when the element that goes to ground goes open. My 494
had a similar problem with the 20dB pad. It's pretty hard to blow
the series element, but the input resistance of the element,
normally close to 50 ohms, was more like 2k, so the previous
stage did not see 50ohms and the total attenuation when the 20dB
pad was inserted was low by several dBs.

Sure, but since he sees exactly the same signal level with both 40 and 40+20
switched in, I'm not inclined to think the 20 dB section is switching at
all, open ground or not. It seems that it would have to be making a
straight-through connection for those two settings to match, wouldn't it?
Be interesting to hear what turns out to be wrong with this one.

-- john, KE5FX




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello all,

I'm looking for the following (paper) service manuals, any offer is
welcome (even if not exactly matching my serial numbers):

HP-182T ser. 2010A-xxxxx

HP-180A/AR ser. 816-03899 Y59-180AR (old serial scheme?)

HP-1821A ser. 809-03023 Y59-1821A (old serial scheme?)

I'm also looking for a replacement CRT bezel (just the frame in front
of the CRT with the 4 screws holding it and maybe the screen filter)
for the 180AR (should be the same of the 180A), should anyone have a
dumped unit for parts.

Thanks in advance and best regards.

Frank IZ8DWF

Hi Frank,

I have restored a couple of 180A scopes, one of which was a late model with
a horizontal deflection board which I think is like the one in the 182. You
mentioned that you have checked resistors and caps but have you checked the
semiconductors as I've found quite a few failed on my scope, including one
of the pair of plate driving transistors. If you set the controls as in the
service manual and check the pair of X plate voltages do they match what is
stated on the circuit diagram? My fault was similar to yours only having
only one X plate being driven properly.

Regards,
Steve

2009/9/28 francesco messineo <francesco.messineo@...>

--
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD
A man with one clock knows what time it is;
A man with two clocks is never quite sure.

________________________________
From: John Miles <jmiles@...>
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:43:15 PM
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP8568B Error Correction Routine failure

Sounds like the driver for the 20 dB pad is stuck on, although
I'm not sure
how that accounts for the -7.7 dBm business (Why isn't it -10?
Attenuators
don't fail in a way that yields +2.3 dB of unexpected gain.)

They do when the element that goes to ground goes open. My 494
had a similar problem with the 20dB pad. It's pretty hard to blow
the series element, but the input resistance of the element,
normally close to 50 ohms, was more like 2k, so the previous
stage did not see 50ohms and the total attenuation when the 20dB
pad was inserted was low by several dBs.

Sure, but since he sees exactly the same signal level with both 40 and 40+20
switched in, I'm not inclined to think the 20 dB section is switching at
all, open ground or not. It seems that it would have to be making a
straight-through connection for those two settings to match, wouldn't it?
Be interesting to hear what turns out to be wrong with this one.

-- john, KE5FX
John,
You are most likely correct (as usual...) If the signal level does not change when the 20dB pad is supposed to be switched in, it seems unlikely a bad element could be the cause. I did not follow the entire thread, I just got in the middle of it :)

Didier KO4BB

Sounds like the driver for the 20 dB pad is stuck on, although
I'm not sure
how that accounts for the -7.7 dBm business (Why isn't it -10?
Attenuators
don't fail in a way that yields +2.3 dB of unexpected gain.)

They do when the element that goes to ground goes open. My 494
had a similar problem with the 20dB pad. It's pretty hard to blow
the series element, but the input resistance of the element,
normally close to 50 ohms, was more like 2k, so the previous
stage did not see 50ohms and the total attenuation when the 20dB
pad was inserted was low by several dBs.

Sure, but since he sees exactly the same signal level with both 40 and 40+20
switched in, I'm not inclined to think the 20 dB section is switching at
all, open ground or not. It seems that it would have to be making a
straight-through connection for those two settings to match, wouldn't it?
Be interesting to hear what turns out to be wrong with this one.

-- john, KE5FX

________________________________
From: John Miles <jmiles@...>
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:00:50 PM
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP8568B Error Correction Routine failure


Sounds like the driver for the 20 dB pad is stuck on, although I'm not sure
how that accounts for the -7.7 dBm business (Why isn't it -10? Attenuators
don't fail in a way that yields +2.3 dB of unexpected gain.)

They do when the element that goes to ground goes open. My 494 had a similar problem with the 20dB pad. It's pretty hard to blow the series element, but the input resistance of the element, normally close to 50 ohms, was more like 2k, so the previous stage did not see 50ohms and the total attenuation when the 20dB pad was inserted was low by several dBs.

Didier

1826-0796 is a SW-02FQ
1826-0938 is a DAC-10FX 10-Bit High Speed Multiplying D/A Converter

This is from HP cross reference.

73
Glenn
WB4UIV

Hi Art,

Check if the results are repeatable. What happens if you exercise the attenuator? Do you get the same results every time?

As John says, it could be the driver circuit for the attenuator, but it could also be a problem in the attenuator itself. The driver circuits are on the A12 assembly.

There are two different attenuator designs. The old one is electromechanical, the new one has some built-in control logic.

Note that the attenuator needs to work in the "pad" and "through" position. For example, if the "through" position for the 10 dB section doesn't work, it may give you 7.7dB of loss due to a bad contact, but 10 dB in the "pad" position. The 20 dB section might be stuck in the "through" mode all the time. There are several possible combinations of what could be wrong. You will probably have to dig in now and check the A12 circuits.

If the problem is the attenuator, Can I do anything by myself of
I have to send the S.A. to the service ?

Attenuator repair requires some mechanical aptitude, manual dexterity, and the ability to understand how the design works. If you feel uncertain, you may be better off sending the attenuator to Agilent for repair or for an exchange unit. If the problem is on A12, you should be able to fix it.

Vladan

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "John Miles" <jmiles@...> wrote:

Sounds like the driver for the 20 dB pad is stuck on, although I'm not sure
how that accounts for the -7.7 dBm business (Why isn't it -10? Attenuators
don't fail in a way that yields +2.3 dB of unexpected gain.)

Lothar B. just posted some photos of attenuator disassembly a few days ago,
but you definitely want to check the driver signals first.

-- john, KE5FX

-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...]On Behalf Of ik7jwy
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:19 AM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP8568B Error Correction Routine
failure


--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "pianovt"
<pianovt@> wrote:

It could be either. There is a good way to check. Set up the

analyzer like John said to view the calibrator. Then, use the
"shift-q" (that's a small "q") function which will disable the IF
step gain switching.

Now push the "atten" key and step the attenuation up, 10 dB at

a time. (20,30, etc.) Every time you do that, the calibrator
peak should drop by 10 dB. If the drop is significantly different
from 10dB, the problem is with the attenuator.

Vladan

I did it.
This is what I see disabling the IF step switching:

ATTEN 10dB --> peak at -10,7 dBm 10
ATTEN 20dB --> peak at - 7,7 dBm 20
ATTEN 30dB --> peak at - 7,7 dBm 10+20
ATTEN 40dB --> peak at -30,9 dBm 40
ATTEN 50dB --> peak at -40,8 dBm 10+40
ATTEN 60dB --> peak at -30,9 dBm 20+40
ATTEN 70dB --> peak at -40,8 dBm 10+20+40

If the problem is the attenuator, Can I do anything by myself of
I have to send the S.A. to the service ?

Thanks

73 Art IK7JWY

Looking for a cross reference for:

1826-0938
1826-0796

Jim Cotton
n8qoh

John Miles wrote:

Sounds like the driver for the 20 dB pad is stuck on, although I'm not sure
how that accounts for the -7.7 dBm business (Why isn't it -10? Attenuators
don't fail in a way that yields +2.3 dB of unexpected gain.)

Lothar B. just posted some photos of attenuator disassembly a few days ago,
but you definitely want to check the driver signals first.

-- john, KE5FX

In one of mine, one of the attenuator section's solenoid was stuck in one direction. There is a contact for each direction of movement that allows the solenoid current to flow momentarily, and then is opened by a plastic thingy after the solenoid moves to the end of it's travel. In mine the contacts had oxidised so it allowed no current to flow and would not move. Gently cleaning it did the trick. Mechanically the solenoid assemblies are simple enough; with the cover off it is obvious what should do what. Trouble shooting it needs only a multimeter. The actuating voltages are there all the time even though only a pulse is necessary.

John is correct though, the attenuators themselves tend to go open or higher in value when cooked, fried or otherwise mistreated...

Dan

Sounds like the driver for the 20 dB pad is stuck on, although I'm not sure
how that accounts for the -7.7 dBm business (Why isn't it -10? Attenuators
don't fail in a way that yields +2.3 dB of unexpected gain.)

Lothar B. just posted some photos of attenuator disassembly a few days ago,
but you definitely want to check the driver signals first.

-- john, KE5FX

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "pianovt" <pianovt@...> wrote:

It could be either. There is a good way to check. Set up the analyzer like John said to view the calibrator. Then, use the "shift-q" (that's a small "q") function which will disable the IF step gain switching.

Now push the "atten" key and step the attenuation up, 10 dB at a time. (20,30, etc.) Every time you do that, the calibrator peak should drop by 10 dB. If the drop is significantly different from 10dB, the problem is with the attenuator.

Vladan

I did it.
This is what I see disabling the IF step switching:

ATTEN 10dB --> peak at -10,7 dBm
ATTEN 20dB --> peak at - 7,7 dBm
ATTEN 30dB --> peak at - 7,7 dBm
ATTEN 40dB --> peak at -30,9 dBm
ATTEN 50dB --> peak at -40,8 dBm
ATTEN 60dB --> peak at -30,9 dBm
ATTEN 70dB --> peak at -40,8 dBm

If the problem is the attenuator, Can I do anything by myself of I have to send the S.A. to the service ?

Thanks

73 Art IK7JWY

Hi Paul,

On 9/28/09, Paul Read <paulr@...> wrote:

Hi Frank,

When I was de-bugging my 182C, I did find that one of the Y plate drives was open circuit at the sliding contact that goes to the Y amp plug-in, as I recall this caused all sorts of odd behaviour with the focus and brightness..not to mention soggy Y deflection !

I'm still testing with no plugin. Try it, with display on EXT and 400
Hz on ext input you should have a clean horizontal track. It can be
focused pretty well also (tried on the 182T).

BTW I also found that it was possible to so miss-adjust the front panel controls and presets on the 4 channel amp (1804a), that it looked as though it was faulty as well. Another thought, if you are running the mainframe without an amplifier, I believe that the Y plates are open circuit, and that may cause odd happenings.

I'll try inserting a plugin, just in case the 182C and 182T (which is
working) have different behaviours when no plugins is inserted.

Thanks
Frank

Hi Frank,

When I was de-bugging my 182C, I did find that one of the Y plate drives was open circuit at the sliding contact that goes to the Y amp plug-in, as I recall this caused all sorts of odd behaviour with the focus and brightness..not to mention soggy Y deflection !
BTW I also found that it was possible to so miss-adjust the front panel controls and presets on the 4 channel amp (1804a), that it looked as though it was faulty as well. Another thought, if you are running the mainframe without an amplifier, I believe that the Y plates are open circuit, and that may cause odd happenings.
Best of luck.

Cheers

Paul

Hi Steve,

I am not very up on the options, but the Agilent site should have all the info. EBay is probably the most realistic gauge of price.

Cheers

Paul

Hello again Erich,

On 9/28/09, erich_schlecht <schlechtca@...> wrote:

I may not be much help -- my 182T might be different than the 182C you have.

In mine, the tube has three pins/wires coming out of the bottom; they are
the vertical deflection and mesh (focus) pins and go to a board below the
tube. The two vertical wires go to a gray cable and down to the plug in
board in the rear.

the tube is the same I think.

Two pins coming from the top have wires going to the horizontal deflection
amp on the right side (looking at the front). When the beam is centered,
those two have zero volts between them, when the beam is on the side they
are about 48 Volts.

yes, that's what I see on the horizontal plates too.

Three pins coming out the side are the flood (graticule illuminator), not
related to your problem. They also go to the board below the tube.

There are two compensation circuits, trace align and y-align that go to
metal rings around the tube. If either of those circuits were not working
(especially the trace align) you might have a problem. They don't use the
vertical plates, they are magnetic coils.

I see from the schematic, I'll try troubleshoot the two align circuits.

By the way, you can get a horizontal line (rather than just a dot) by
injecting a signal of 100 to 500 Hz or so into the external input. That
might help.

yes, I know, what I get is a curved and distorted trace, just like the
one I get with manual turning the horizontal knob.

The only other thing I can think of is that something magnetic (or
accidentally magnetized) is near your unit. It would have to be really
strong, though!

hmmm if that's the case it would be inside the unit, I moved it a lot
and tried in different positions just to probe various boards.
By the way, the bad focusing gets even worse when the unit is laid on a side.
Also turning the scale flooding trimmer for maximum illumination shows
a strange bright
"spider-web" like pattern on the lower right corner of the CRT. I
believe this shouldn't happen.

thanks again and best regards.

Frank

Hi all,

My lab was audited recently by an ISO auditors.
I have some old units with me in which i use to calibrate the older version of sensors but now after getting audited by these people , i learnt that i have been making calibrations with wrong instruments.
I would be much obliged if i can get some suggestion on the instruments that i should have for the calibration of power sensors.
I need to suggest some instruments and i would appreciate getting some info through this group.
If i wish to clean the connectors be it the sma or the N type..can i use an alcohol based solution?
Appreciate the help and reply.


I wish to also get a suggestion on how to make accurate frequency measurements using a microwave counter.
I have been using A HP5351 unit to do it till it got faulty and ever since, i have been using the 8563E to make my microwave freq measurements.
Am i doing it right?
How do i calculate the freq uncertainty using the analyzer with an external GPS unit?

Rgds
Ruben

Hi Mark,

For conducted emissions tests, you will probably use a LISN. The most important piece of equipment you will need is a 11947A to protect the analyzer from tarnsients. Without it, you will very likely damage the analyzer.

Vladan

It could be either. There is a good way to check. Set up the analyzer like John said to view the calibrator. Then, use the "shift-q" (that's a small "q") function which will disable the IF step gain switching.

Now push the "atten" key and step the attenuation up, 10 dB at a time. (20,30, etc.) Every time you do that, the calibrator peak should drop by 10 dB. If the drop is significantly different from 10dB, the problem is with the attenuator.

Vladan