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How mixer responses to different PORT and LEVEL


Simon
 

Sorry long post

Since i saw posting on mixer at time of TinySa development hot time in this forum, i would appreciate advises on how mixer reacts to signal coming from different PORT and LEVEL.

This is for ham receiver. Normal ham receiver has filter to reduce the f3 and f4 as described below. Assume it only has average filter and it is in strong interference field day, so, f3 and f4 still very strong after leaking through the less than perfect filter and reach the mixer. Assume mini circuit ade-1 mixer as used inside TinySa

Actual freq, wanted receive freq is 7.03MHz. Two unwanted freq is 3.52 and 3.51 MHz and their sum is same 7.03 MHz. Modern ham receiver have half octave filter and will attenuate it quite a bit but can still leak through in field day or similar. Yes, they do make contest grade receiver with extra strong filter but that is not the issue here. My question is how this mixer will response in what manner.

Question 1.
Does mixer act differently toward "a pair of signal both coming from RF port (as in ham receiver unwanted out of band interference) and the normal pair of signal, wanted signal, called f1, from rf port at says -90 dBm and a much stronger signal from Lo port at 7 dBm, called f2.

As the example mixer, the IF port will have sum and difference at -95 dBm, as 5 dB conversion loss at f1+f2 and f1-f2.

As for the unwanted interference coming from RF port, called f3 and f4 , is it true that it need to be "quite strong" before f3 and f4 can produce their own set of mixed output at IF port, at f3+f4 and f3-f4 (which is no use here)

Beated product IMD interference signal, f3+f4 shall has same IF frequency as wanted signal f1-f2 (or f2-f1)

Question2
When both f3 and f4 are weak and at similar level as the wanted f1, -90 dBm. How much dBm will the mixed output of f3+f4?? Will it be very weak?

Question 3
What will happen when f3 and f4 both rise to says, -40 dBm, quite strong as incoming signal but much less than the normal beating signal Lo at 7 dBm? Will it start to produce siginificant output at f3+f4?

Question 4.
What are the signal level condition that
f3 and f4 can generate at IF port, f3+f4, at same -95 dBm of the wanted f1-f2 signal?
How strong f3 and f4 need to be? Assume f3 and f4 are same level

Sorry for long post. Many thanks for your time in reading this. Much Appreciated.


 

Not wanting to answer your questions in detail I suggest you to study the concept of Intermodulation Intercept, both for 2nd and 3rd order.
This concept states that with every dB reduction of one of the signals below the intercept point the 2nd order intermodulation will reduce with 2dB and the 3rd order intermodulation with 3dB.
Once you know the 2nd and 3rd order intercept points of a mixer (mostly specified for 3rd order as IIP3 level, +15dBm for the ADE-1 mixer when driving the LO port with +7dBm) you can calculate the impact of other signals at the RF port.
Signals leaking from one port to another are simply reduced by the isolation between the ports and from there seen as if they are originating from that port.
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HBTE Files section:?/g/HBTE/files
Erik, PD0EK