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Re: Build instructions for the tiny spectrum analyzer uploaded to file area
Its a low ESR cap for extra decoupling of the 3.3V. Not sure its needed.
-- HBTE Files section:?/g/HBTE/files Erik, PD0EK |
Re: Build instructions for the tiny spectrum analyzer uploaded to file area
On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:30 PM, <erik@...> wrote:
I uploaded a small document describing how to connect the various modules of the tiny spectrum analyzer.Great work.? Thanks for sharing.? I see an electrolytic cap in your picture that I can not quite see what it is connected to. |
Re: Differentiating real signals from spurs in the tiny spectrum analyzer
#spectrum_analyzer
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý? I downloaded the file and put it in the same SA.exe folder/directory. ? Ricardo Arakaki From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of wb6ogd ? Erik, |
Build instructions for the tiny spectrum analyzer uploaded to file area
I uploaded a small document describing how to connect the various modules of the tiny spectrum analyzer.
You MUST use a 3.3V compatible Arduino (such as zero or due or compatible). Arduino code and a small windows executable for controlling the tiny spectrum analyzer are also available in the files area -- HBTE Files section:?/g/HBTE/files Erik, PD0EK |
Re: Home brew setup for antenna test
I'm not saying the PL365 was a bad choice.
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I have a PL360, have used it a lot. But for a SW antenna, probably best to stick with just attaching a long wire to the PL365's whip antenna. The front end is high gain, optimized for very short antennas. So too much antenna may overload the front end, causing distortion. The SoftRockLite is not nearly as convenient, and may be difficult to get working properly. You need a good stereo soundcard in your computer (many laptops are only mono for audio in), May need to keep noise from the computer out of the radio using special cabling tricks. Need to choose and understand one of the many software programs before you can hear anything. Not at all convenient. Some would disagree with "high performance". But it is cheap. And does try to give you a 50 ohm input, if you want to play with antenna systems. It should be possible to create a toroid impedance match from a 50 ohm coax into the PL365's whip. I'd start with a 50:500 (1:10) impedance transformer, which assumes the whip is around 500 ohms. The whip input to the radio is probably quite a bit higher, but larger impedance ratio wide band transformers are finicky to build. Add a 6 dB resistive attenuator between the 50 ohm coax and the 50:500 impedance transformers, so your experiments with 50 ohm antenna systems will see close to 50 ohms going into the attenuator+toroid+PL365. ? If all you want to do is check out the SW bands during a trip to the beach, just the PL365 and a long hunk of wire up high is ideal. Jerry, KE7ER On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 09:50 AM, Jerry Gaffke wrote:
From all this, I'd assume the PL365 is not designed to accept a 50 ohm antenna system directly for SW. |
Re: Home brew setup for antenna test
Emi, Those are some wide open questions, so tough to answer. For example, most high performance antennas are designed to operate well only at certain frequencies, you apparently are interested in all of 1.7 to 29.99 mhz. And most antenna systems are meant to drive a 50 ohm antenna port on the radio, which the PL365 may not have. The Tecsun PL365 is interesting. https://www.tecsunradios.com.au/store/product/tecsun-pl365-radio/ They sell an (expensive) outside antenna for the radio: https://www.tecsunradios.com.au/store/product/tecsun-shortwave-outdoor-antenna/ Tecsun PL365 uses the Silabs Si4735 chip to implement most of the radio: https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/data-sheets/Si4730-31-34-35-D60.pdf https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/application-notes/AN332.pdf Unusual for a consumer SW radio, this may have a roughly 50 ohm input at the 3.5mm antenna jack for MW and LW. The description for the radio states: "The Tecsun PL365 is the only radio in the Tecsun range apart from the Tecsun S2000 Desktop Radio to provide an external antenna connection for the AM/MW band. Hence our Q3070 Outdoor MW/SW antenna is perfectly suited to this model." The Q3070 antenna is suitable for MW and SW, and has a 10:1 impedance transformer to drive the radio at 50 ohms from an (assumed) 500 ohm long wire antenna. Not clear from this if the 3.5mm antenna connection is only for MW/LW (below 1.7mhz), or if it also works for SW. However, page 18 of the manual: https://www.tecsunradios.com.au/store/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/PL-365-MANUAL.pdf shows that we should use the 3.5mm jack only for AM/LW (below 1.7mhz) Their outside antenna for SW is simply a long wire attached to to the PL365 whip antenna The first page of the Si4735 datasheet shows that FM and SW signals go into one pin of the chip, and that AM and LW (anything below 1.7mhz) go into two other pins. From all this, I'd assume the PL365 is not designed to accept a 50 ohm antenna system directly for SW. And that your best bet is to simply run a wire, long and high, directly into that whip. And forget the specialized antenna systems when using this radio. But I could be wrong. Here's a source for cheap high performance SW radios: http://fivedash.com/ At $21 that SoftRockLite is a good start, though the front end filter will only allow through a few hundred KHz. And they are cheap because all the heavy lifting is being done by your computer with soundcard, and thus not very portable or convenient. For ham band use with my radios that do have a 50 ohm antenna port, I am quite happy with a resonant EFHW, pretty much as described in this forum: https://www.facebook.com/groups/EndFedHalfWaveAntennas/ For a receiver, you could use a much smaller toroid. Of particular interest to me, that Tecsun webpage states: "The Tecsun PL365¡¯s RF design has been upgraded and now utilises the SiLabs Si 4735 chipset (the earlier model PL360 utilised the Si 4734 chipset). The new chipset adds Single Side Band (SSB) to the Tecsun PL365 as well as increasing the coverage of the SW band up to 30 MHz. " A search through the Si4735 datasheet and programming guide shows no mention of SSB or BFO, so this is almost certainly not supported by the firmware embedded inside the Si4735. Most unfortunate! This chip is targeting very cheap AM/SW/FM receivers for the consumer market, but firmware for SSB would have been trivial for them to include. There's not a whole lot of AM stations worth listening to on the SW bands these days, that stuff has mostly moved to the web. Since this chip converts directly from RF to baseband I and Q, the most obvious way for them to receive SSB would be to add some sort of BFO at the same frequency as the incoming RF. Alternately, it might use the chip to receive at a constant IF frequency of perhaps 9mhz, with an extra mixer and oscillator up front to convert incoming RF to 9mhz, and add a standard 9mhz bfo. Some of the SiLabs chips provide a way to see the baseband I and Q data to allow an added custom processor to decode SSB, but I don't think the Si4735 does this. Anybody know exactly how Tecsun is implementing SSB? > Limitations:I can only fabricate f.s. meters, simple swr bridges and attenuators. Antenna analysers with micro > processors are over me and my budget. Big toroids for baluns are beyond my reach. But i can make air core > cores as I have an LC meter. Have fun. Not clear why you think building a toroid transformer would be beyond your reach. That LC meter is probably working at one frequency, and that frequency may be very very low, inter-winding capacitance can mean entirely unexpected results at higher frequencies. So may take some experimentation, lots of resources on the web to give you a starting point. There's a lot you could learn by playing with this stuff, and what you might do is totally open ended. But you probably want a receiver with a 50 ohm antenna port on SW before seriously exploring antenna systems. If you really want to know what is going on with your antenna, then you might do a web search for the nanoVNA. Use caution, driving the local oscillator from something like the nanoVNA into a radio might blow the radio. Another reason for caution: This is a rabbit hole that could take years to properly explore. Jerry, KE7ER On Thursday, November 28, 2019, 5:18:12 PM PST, emi constantino via Groups.Io <emiconstantino@...> wrote: Hi all! ?Your ideas born out of actual experiences are appreciated.1.Objective :just a simple knock out test to have an antenna system for the best bang of the buck. 2.For qrp and qth use.To use same type of antenna for both installation. 3.To include comparison of transmission line and atu's. 4.Will use hf beacons all over the world as signal sources. 5.Test site:a deserted salty beach. 6.Inclined to test unsymetrical type,EFHW ,long wire due to location of the qth to the space available and personnal bias for ease of installing long wires in emergencies. 7.Limitations:I can only fabricate f.s. meters, simple swr bridges and attenuators. Antenna analysers with micro ? processors ?are over me and my budget. Big toroids for baluns are beyond my reach. But i can make air core ? cores as I have an LC meter. ? My receiver is a Tecsun PL365 with built in signal meter.It cover 1.7 to 29.99mhz . Thanks in advance, EmiConstantino. /DW3 CBO |
Re: Differentiating real signals from spurs in the tiny spectrum analyzer
#spectrum_analyzer
On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 09:10 AM, wb6ogd wrote:
MSVCR100D.dllI see I uploaded the debug version. Have replaced it with the release version. Can you download again? You may need to install VC++ 2010 runtime more info here ? -- HBTE Files section:?/g/HBTE/files Erik, PD0EK |
Re: Differentiating real signals from spurs in the tiny spectrum analyzer
#spectrum_analyzer
Erik,
I am sorry, I missed your post that said the same thing. I downloaded it but when I try to run it (Windows 10 Home 64) it says it needs MSVCR100D.dll Where do I find that? Gary WB6OGD |
Re: Differentiating real signals from spurs in the tiny spectrum analyzer
#spectrum_analyzer
The windows SW executable can be found in the files section (see at the end of this post)
You can test the SW without HW using the build in mockup device. Select "Mockup" at start and click? ok -- HBTE Files section:?/g/HBTE/files Erik, PD0EK |
Re: Differentiating real signals from spurs in the tiny spectrum analyzer
#spectrum_analyzer
Erik,
Yes, thank you.? I think I need to build one of these. I just did a quick search of ebay, looks like total part cost is about $35 (USD)...? that is fantastic. I was planning to build Farhan's Specan but this is far easier.. and if I am not mistaken, actually better. Erik, will you eventually be releasing the Windows software? Gary WB6OGD |
Re: Differentiating real signals from spurs in the tiny spectrum analyzer
#spectrum_analyzer
Erik, This is really excellent work. Thank you for sharing it with the group! Mike M. KU4QO On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 4:49 AM <erik@...> wrote: When measuring the harmonics from my Softrock Ensemble RXTX I noticed a number of strange (e.g. none harmonic) signals such as at 0.8MHz , 9MHz, 12.8MHz and 13.8MHz |
Re: Tiny low cost home build spectrum analyzer
#spectrum_analyzer
Thank you. Time to order some parts ;)
Karl Heinz - K5KHK? |
Re: Tiny low cost home build spectrum analyzer
#spectrum_analyzer
I did tidy up and uploaded also the windows executable for controlling the tiny spectrum analyzer to the file area
|
Differentiating real signals from spurs in the tiny spectrum analyzer
#spectrum_analyzer
When measuring the harmonics from my Softrock Ensemble RXTX I noticed a number of strange (e.g. none harmonic) signals such as at 0.8MHz , 9MHz, 12.8MHz and 13.8MHz
Is the output of the RXTX really that bad, or are these spurs and mirrors? Below is a 4 times averaged scan of the output of the TXRX through a 60dB attenuator with RBW set to automatic When wobbling the first IF around 433MHz, real input signals should stay at the same frequencies but mirrors or internally generated spurs may change to different frequencies or disappear altogether. This is possible because??the 434MHz IF filter is about 1MHz wide , much wider than the currently selected RBW bandwidth of about 20kHz. Luckily I implemented this wobbling for the 2GHz spectrum analyzer and I could enable it by switching on "Spur Reduction" Combined with 4 times averaging this positions the 434MHz IF at 4 different frequencies, still within its 1MHz bandwidth but twice the RBW apart and the averaging should reduce the signals that change position in the scan. The impact is easily seen as most spurs and mirrors almost disappear giving confidence the RXTX is not that bad. There is some different in the amplitude of the real signals at 7.11MHz and 14.22MHz as the IF filter at 434MHz is not really a flat top filter and the calculated IMD changes a bit but the difference (about 1dB) is acceptable The SW spur reduction nicely compensates for the absence of good HW filtering and helps to keep the tiny spectrum analyzer small and easy to build. |
Extending the Tiny Spectrum Analyzer to above 2GHz
The Tiny Spectrum Analyzer is limited in its frequency range by the highest frequency the SI4432 can generate and the choice of IF.
With an IF of 434MHz and a maximum generated frequency of 960MHz and the LO above the IF it is possible to cover the whole range of 0 till 434MHz, but what about above 434MHz? Given the maximum LO frequency covering till? 525MHz is straightforward, if you eliminate the low-pass filter at the input and be careful in interpreting the possibly many spurs being generated. But what about above 525MHz. Of course if you put the LO below the IF you can get to 960MHZ + IF is 1.394GHz but is even higher possible? As an experiment I implemented harmonic modes in the setting of the LO. When the mode is set to 1/5 the LO is not set to frequency X but X/5 and you hope the 5th harmonic will do something The chosen settings are: This means the first SI4432 (LO:1) is set to convert the input to an IF of 434MHZ using subtractive mixing (LO is above the IF) based on the 5th harmonic (times = 1/5). The second SI4432 (the receiver, LO:0) is set to receive the first IF frequency in fundamental? (times = 1) zero IF mode so it is set to 434MHz But does this work? As mixer I'm using an ADE-25MH that should work fairly well till above 2GHz so lets try a -30dBm 2.5GHz input signal And there it is: 2.5GHz at -50dBm so 20dB reduction in sensitivity. Not bad for the 5th harmonic mixing. The scan contains much less spurs than expected and later measurements showed 2.5GHz was an accidental optimal choice. As you can seen I'm scanning 1GHz span with 1000 steps so step size (resolution) is 1MHz and the RBW is 300kHz so it is well possible spurs are hidden in the gaps between the steps. Any form of preselector (e.g. tracking bandpass filter)? would help but a YIG input filter is not tiny. So if you keep this spectrum analyzer tiny you have to understand what you are to expect and interpret accordingly. |
A tracking generator for the tiny spectrum analyzer
#spectrum_analyzer
It would be nice if the tiny spectrum analyzer would also have a tracking generator.
It turns out to be rather easy to add such functionality. As a prototype I removed the 434MHz filter between the mixer and the receiver SI4432 and started the arduino monitor to so I could set the SI4432 manually. These are the command I entered where # precedes a comment line #select the LO SI4432 v1 #set the LO SI4432 to a fixed frequency (435MHz) for testing o435000000 #set the LO SI4432 to TX mode by writing 0x0B to register 0x07 x07 0B #and set to max output by writing 0x1F to register 0x6B x6B 1F #select the receiver SI4432 v0 #set the receiver SI4432 to a fixed frequency of 434000000 o434000000 #set the receiver SI4432 also to TX mode by writing 0x0B to register 0x07 x07 0B #and set to lowest output by writing 0x18 to register 0x6B to avoid intermodulation products x6B 18 and voila, a nice sinus output of 1MHz comes from the IF port of the mixer. I did not measure IMD but on a scope a looks OK. When I now sweep the LO, the output of the mixer nicely tracks the LO - 434MHz which is exactly the tune frequency of the spectrum analyzer. Some additional remarks: - Best would be to use a good 400MHz low pass filter after the mixer IF port output to remove the high LO frequency leakage (at least -20dBm) - The SI4432 synthesizer can only step in steps of about 260Hz so keep in mind your requested output frequency will be rounded to the 260Hz grid. - At the lowest output level you get about -10dBm output from the mixer. You can set the receiver SI4432 also to highest output level and get more than 0dBm? but the output will no longer be a sinus, more like a triangular wave - To act as a real tracking generator you would need a second mixer and a SMA Tee to to split the LO signal to drive the two mixers Even when you do not have only two SI4432 modules, having a signal generator able of outputting a sine wave between 0Hz and 400HMz is nice to have at no extra cost. |
Re: Tiny low cost home build spectrum analyzer
#spectrum_analyzer
OK,? I will run thru it and tidy up a bit. I will post it after I get the parts to test it out.
|
Re: Tiny low cost home build spectrum analyzer
#spectrum_analyzer
I won't mind if you tidy up the arduino code and post an updated version....
These are the commands used by the PC SW for the tiny spectrum analyzer:? v : select VFO o: set output frequency a: start of scan b: end of scan m: scan once t: step time w: RBW s: steps x: read/write SI4432 registers (very usefull in Arduino monitor when experimenting with the SI4432) |
Re: Tiny low cost home build spectrum analyzer
#spectrum_analyzer
Hi Erik
OK thank you, that analogReference call threw me for a while but I think I have worked it out. ON the GUI understood, I was a developer for many year.s? I never liked to let my code free until I was happy with it. That said from the screen shot it must be in a far better state than you let on.? I look forward to seeing a more advanced version at some point. Let me know if you need someone to help tidy any of this up and all the best. Jim |
Re: Tiny low cost home build spectrum analyzer
#spectrum_analyzer
@Jim,
The windows GUI SW is managed C++ that I hacked together in a couple of hours. I do not want to share it as its rather dirty code For the Arduino SW I upload the relevant code to the files section of this group, also this code is a mess reflecting various experiments I did. The scanning is done using the 'm' command The 'f' command is for a VNA so not used here |
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