On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 06:08 PM, m0wid wrote:

Hi group

I have finally got round to building the Tiny-SA this week.

My version uses B3555 filters, kindly supplied by Tony G4WIF, and I am using an ESP32 as the processor (another processor with impressive ADC specs but almost useless real-life performance).

Hi all,?

Thanks for the info on the ADE-25MH's and ESP32.?

Wondering about the potential to run more than one task on both cores like in ESP32 on steroids using two cores w/Arduino:?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_D_Qu0cgu8

Might not be pertinent, though wondering since I inventoried my MCU's, have two ESP32's and was wondering about using before investing in another MCU like the Zero or Blue Pill or an even more expensive board.? I do have an AtomicPi that might be a candidate also.?

On another note, more regarding programming and the software... the last Visual Studio I own is VS2005 Pro and was thinking I'd try something new... so installed VS Code, with the PlatformIO,?C/C++, C/C++ Intellisense, Native Debug and Arduino IDE extensions.? Well, I just uninstalled and am going to assess the state of the ESP32 drivers with Arduino 1.8.9 IDE?using Espressif ESP32 and Git or the ESP_IDF since for some reason the online referenced links are not working for the espressif ESP32 via Preferences, Additional Boards Manager URL from the Github source. ESP8266 libraries are working however via the URL.

I want to compare with VS Code with PlatformIO, C/C++, C/C++ Intellisense, Native Debug and Arduino IDE extensions.? Wondering if anyone is using and what version are being used?

Seems the newer IDE's and compilers are more of a pain with more online thicker server and thinner client requirements and demands.?I haven't seriously programmed since about 2009... so I don't know...?I'm starting to think about reading into the capabilities of interfacing the Arduino IDE with one of the older versions of VS (2003 or 2005) or?maybe even something simpler like Dev-C++ since I'm used to using more.? Anyone familiar with using VS 2003/2005 with Arduino and if so, any advice and/or reference to read into more regarding?

I also inventoried where I left off last winter and see I have a bag of pigtail SMA connectors (seems easier than using the rigid coax for now), 10, 20 & 30dB SMA attenuators, two AD831's (mixer), a AD603 (VGA), AD8362 (linear dB power detector),?AD8307 (log dB amp detector) and AD8317 (log dB power detector). I was thinking about detecting linear and log power as an option and as noted elsewhere in a post... seems like the software functionality can be useful both ways.?For some reason I picked up a HMC189 (2 to 4GHz doubler) and am thinking I got ahead of myself as I've not made any basic diode ring doublers yet and want to do that with some toroid wound transformers... thinking to try a mixer also since seems similar with just a trifilar winding basically?wound similar design.?

Back to the mixers and ordering more parts topic... reads like most are having better performance with the ADE-1's, so thinking will order those and some ADE-25MH's for future use.? Wondering for future also the ADE-42 and some other options including filters, attenuators and some other parts to make my own modules.? Any suggestions for options for wider frequency range of operation in the future?? ?Of course seeing the PE4432's are about $2 ea... I'm thinking I'm going to order at least four to see about using & modifying those too.? I was also wanting to try the Si570... though am not finding cost effectively anywhere like more prefered Si569, Si564, Si549... any ideas or references for buying cost effectively?

I'm thinking I'm going to wait on the ADF4351's to see if a better module comes out or what is out comes down in price since the AD9XXX modules are showing up, albeit higher priced for now.? Eager to make next months order and am waiting on back ordered Mouser resistors and?capacitors I ordered last year... was hoping they'd be shipped Feb 4th, though just read pushed out to Feb 11th. Not a biggy for this project though is for the infrasonic, sonic, ultrasonic and ELF-VLF range projects using the TL071's and other ultra low noise amps study compared to transistor designs. I have a Si5331 and AD9850 for starters and will be interesting to see if I can find a manual with the specs on the connectors to get the Pacific Measurement/Wavetek 1038 NS201 working.? Thinking I'm not going to touch that equipment since is more ESD sensitive, until I learn some more confidently with an awareness of the tolerances so not to damage anything... or more than is so can be repaired easilier. Here's what I've compiled with that equipment... though the detection systems aren't RF heterodyne and are thermistor detector design with what looks more like lock-in amplifiers or something new to me.? http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Pacific_Measurements_1038

Anyhow, moving forward with these tinySA easier variations of design and use hands on study since I need to learn more before firing up the lab grade test equipment.? Kind of like instrument analysis course work during my first B.S. study... build the basic circuits and systems before using the lab systems.?

Looks like fun testing all the options. Just getting into the coding and only reviewing is stimulating regarding getting these new IDE's to function seamlessly.? Reminds me of java and everything is java confusing now days with nit picky version requirements and requirements all over the web versus just coming with a set of disks or CD's and that's about all required.??

To better review when leaving and coming back more blind say from a season break... I'm thinking about making a summary document on my google drive public, and can mirror on the HTBE files section too,?of all the design variations noted on HTBE as I'm inventorying the related components and modules with images and specs I invested in to keep track of all the projects and this tinySA/VNA range of versions too. I was thinking about linking my datasheets to the google drive in the representative spreadsheet entry also.?Looks like there are pictures for most of the designs (VNA's & Spectrum Analyzer's) with a few associated schematics also.??

If you have any summaries of your projects, I can add to the spreadsheet... linking to source info too along with itemizing docs, parts/modules, apps and code along with versions. Even if you better recall posts/sources you recommend will be a great assistance.

A little more reading and organizing and I'm thinking this season I'll be able to get some design iterations working.

Thanks for sharing, your time & experience and hanging in if you read all this as I just realized I wrote a lot.? Neat reading the variations from a hardware and software perspective and am excited to start more hands on work!? Thanks again!

Dave
You just missed post #828,
Joerg has the solution.
In the tinySA.ino file change the line:
?BUFFERSIZE 512
to
?BUFFERSIZE 32

You have the same problem I had.? The fix WORKS.
73,
Gary
WB6OGD

With some poking around on the web, it appears that the serial read buffer is 64 bytes.
So Serial.readStringUntil() might be suitable for grabbing a newline terminated tinySA command from the host.

The timeout on that is always in effect, though Serial.setTimout() takes a long (32 bits) to specify how many milliseconds.
and 2**32/1000/60/60/24 is almost 50 days.? Though they don't bother to actually say how long the timeout can be.
I can easily imagine they arbitrarily break the timeout after a few seconds.
They do limit delayMicroseconds() to 16383 microseconds max, I have no idea why.

This lack of concise documentation is disturbing, I'd never know for sure if I had handled all the edge cases.

Jerry, KE7ER

There's a lot left unsaid in the Arduino documentation.
For example, from? ?
"Serial.readString()?reads characters from the serial buffer into a String. The function terminates if it times out"


So how big is the buffer?
Exactly what happens when it gets full?

Seems best on Arduino to only ask the Serial library to do low level character IO one byte at a time.
Do everything else in code you have some control over.?

Jerry, KE7ER

Hi Group.

I also had not realised the Logger window had to be open.

With the logger window open I can reduce the speed down to 0 and it works for a single scan.? With the logger window closed it hangs.? If I choose run with the logger window open then it manages a few sweeps then hangs.

The data is sent from the Arduino at the same speed regardless of whether or not the logger window is open, so it must be a problem at the PC end.? The arduino is sending the data very much faster than the display update in the Tiny-SA application.? A 300 point sweep takes < 1 second to send the data.? The tiny-sa.exe takes around 12 seconds to plot it.
Moving the mouse over the sweep slows it to almost stopped, but still the data in the buffer is being handled and the sweep continues.

This is the data from the logger window at a hang:

<<x37
<<x39
<<x42
<<x42
<<x42
<<x46
<<x37
<<x44
<<x43
<<x41
<<x41
<<x42
<<x41
<<x45
<<x41
<<x41
<<x46
<<x41
<<x42
<<x43
<<x46
<<x42
<<x55
<<x112
<<{
<<Steps: 300_
<<a VFO: -1_
<<x29300
<<E
<<time pr step: 0_
<<Stop: 533920533_
<<Start: 433920433_
<<VFO: 1_
<<Width: 10000_
<<Output frequency: 433920000_
<<VFO: 0_
<<Output frequency: 483920483_
<<VFO: 1_
<<Parameter? 6 = 0_
<<Parameter? 5 = 0_
<<}
<<x43
>>m
>>s300
>>e-1
>>t0
>>b533920533
>>a433920433
>>v1
>>w333
>>o433920000
>>v0
>>o483920483
>>v1
>>p6 0
>>p5 0
<<x46


I tried a 1000 step single scan with speed zero and Logger Window open that worked (very very slow to plot - the data comes from the ESP32 in around 2 secs).? The logger window slows things considerably, which is strange as that should not be a very time consuming task on a modern PC.
My thought is that the serial comms is OK as lots of data seems to be buffered OK, but there is a problem in the tiny-sa.exe.? Is there a lot of maths going in in the application or is it just converting the data values to db and plotting?
73
Dave M0WID

开云体育

YES.
How do you get away with it with your 32bit Zero?? It does it all in hardware and is fast enough?
73,
Gary
WB6OGD

The problem is in the USB serial driver. If you give a large buffer to send it crashes. With the Arduino monitor you get very small transfer.
--
HBTE Files section:?/g/HBTE/files
Erik, PD0EK

I have one modified module to show. Will take some pictures and use example schematics (there are many different filter configurations being used).
Will take some time

W.r.t to boxing up.
YES.
In particular the low pass filter, mixer, band pass filter and RX module.
I can see local FM broadcast and mobile phone signals without connecting anything.
Also the Spurs will reduce with shielding
--
HBTE Files section:?/g/HBTE/files
Erik, PD0EK

Dan,
I am just like you.. wanting to be a real RF engineer but have a long way to go.
Every project I build I get more of an education than I even expected.. they never work the first time ;-)
I say build the tinySA!? Now that mine is basically working I am really excited.

I too am wanting ideas about boxing/shielding it up.

And Erik, modifying the Si4432 modules, more info would be appreciated.
Mine do not have the final filter caps stuffed so I am part way there.
From your schematic, should we remove the TR switch on the LO one?
I know we are working you to death, take your time we can wait, hi hi..
73,
Gary
WB6OGD

Joerg,
NO, I missed that..? well I remembered something about reducing it, I know I tried 64 without any change..
BUT.. 32 WORKS!!!!
You are good!? THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

I will have to try to understand this..?? There is enough dynamic memory for 512.. so says the compiler..
Bigger buffer spits out data too quickly?
73,
Gary
WB6OGD

Erik, I don't consider myself to be anything close to an RF engineer but VNA's and SA's have fascinated me for years. I think I'm going to give it a try making up your tinySA project.?
I was wondering if you posted a pic of the modifications to the SI4432 module. I did follow your links to the modules page at electrodragon. Seems like there is no shortage of those modules available - LOL. Perhaps there is a picture of a modified SI4432 somewhere?
I'm anxious to give this a go...
I was curious if you shielded any of these boards or boxed them up? Would boxing up each module help at all? In the past when I've "boxed" things up I ended up changing things - like the VFO that I put a lid onto - no it wasn't temperature, it was the PCB lid that moved the frequency - LOL.?

Several years of Dayton shopping - I now have a selection of copper strapping and thin sheets that are much easier to work than PCB. And since they are so thin - easier to solder.
--
Dan Reynolds - KB9JLO

Gary,
did you reduce BUFFERSIZE to 32 in the Nano C-code as I mentioned in message #721?
With this change communication with the SA.EXE and the Nano worked fine for me. I can run 3000 points without any problems.?
--
Joerg, ex-DB2OO

Here is from the Nano:
<<x54
<<x49
<<x49
<<x57
<<x51
<<x54
<<x52
<<x53
<<x76
<<x52
<<x54
<<x51
<<x53
<<x54
<<x52
<<x61
<<x57
<<x81
<<x111
<<x96
<<x229
<<{
<<Steps: 100_
<<time pr step: 90_
<<Stop: 533500533_
<<Start: 433500433_
<<VFO: 1_
<<Output frequency: 433500000_
<<VFO: 0_
<<Output frequency: 483500483_
<<VFO: 1_
<<Parameter? 6 = 0_
<<paramenter=6_
<< -30_
<<Parameter? 5 =
<<Gattenuate=60_
>>e-1
<<callin atten with60_
>>w1000
<<paramenter=5_
>>p6 0
>>p5 -30
empty

Plot is just over to the left..? not enough points to plot!
Gary

Erik,
We are getting somewhere!
I did not know you have to open the log window before doing a sweep.
When I do, I see the Nano IS sending back good data..
only problem is it stops at about 10 (doing sweep of 100).
This is why I see only a section on the left of the graph!!
Something is timing out?

Doing it in Mockup like you asked, I get this:
>>o483500483
>>v1
>>m
>>s100
>>e-1
>>t90
>>b533500533
>>a433500433
>>v1
>>w1000
>>o433500000
>>v0
>>o483500483
>>v1
>>p6 0
>>p5 -30
empty


Gary

Test option:
When you start sa.exe and activate file/connect... , do you also see "Mockup"?
Click on mockup and OK
Then view/view log
Log window opens with "empty"
Then click "RUN" and see if the log window populates.
The mockup scanner does not log datapoints or replies but the rest should be there
--
HBTE Files section:?/g/HBTE/files
Erik, PD0EK

I use the same sweeper core code also on a nano using a somewhat different windows executable (TAPR-VNA)
No issues.
Extremely weird
--
HBTE Files section:?/g/HBTE/files
Erik, PD0EK

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 09:03 AM, wb6ogd wrote:

I know about the other log window.. it just says EMPTY.

The log window will only be populated when activated so you first have to open the log window and then do a sweep
?
--
HBTE Files section:?/g/HBTE/files
Erik, PD0EK

That makes sense.
I only ask because pretty much all SA plots I see in the forums seem to be linear.
Can't recall ever seeing a log plot from an SA.

Jerry

Thanks Erik,
Unfortunately new version gives same results for me.

One think I have noticed is when I unplug/plug the USB cable, then open tinySA.exe I get a pop up error
window that says "no sweeper found".? I say ok, then it pops up the PortSelector window with my COM5
already highlighted.. I say ok and the main window pops up with a noise graph (like it is in Mockup mode?).
If I push Run, the tx/rx leds on nano do blink, power supply does change current but log window doesn't
show any communication.
I am thinking it might be something at startup.. With Nano code, the info comes out immediately, maybe it
should wait for the .exe to ask for it?

I see in the .ino in setup:

? Serial.begin(115200); // 115200
#if defined(ARDUINO_ARCH_SAMD)
//? while(!SerialUSB); // Uncomment this line if you want the Arduino to wait with starting till the serial monitor is activated, usefull when debugging
#endif

So I have tried putting in:
?delay(10000);? //gaw experiment
OR
? while(? Serial.available() == 0)? //gaw exp

BUT still nothing...
Thanks and 73,
Gary
WB6OGD

?

Certain measurements are best done in log sweep but acceptable if not available as with more points you can display In log scale
--
HBTE Files section:?/g/HBTE/files
Erik, PD0EK