Re: Jay Moseley's sysgen instructions
Please, download correct version of mvsInstallationResources from
?
Andre
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Jay Moseley's sysgen instructions
Hi - just a note to document a small error in the above remarkably
detailed and comprehensive instructions. SMPJOB04 instruction section
requests tape j90012.het - this is present but appears to be completely
blank and the job actually specifies j90009.het. The illustrations show
j90012.het being mounted so SMPJOB04 has been changed at some time.
Might save someone some head scratching if they are trying to learn the
intricacies of system generation.
Amazing job Jay - thanks
Bill
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That is certainly better than the reputation the MSS had; when the Central Bank switched to IBM, we had NCR CRAM units ("double drop!") and at some time the MSS was discussed briefly. But rumour had it that they were quite dangerous and people had died through neglecting the safeguards. Never knew whether that was an urban legend or not.
best regards,
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On 7 Feb 2025, at 17:51, Tom Brennan <tom@...> wrote:
Even modern machines can be interesting. ?I was on-site at an implementation of a new IBM tape robot box a few years back. ?The box tested out fine, but intermittently shut down when we were loading tapes. ?Eventually during one shutdown one robot broke its plastic fingers off.It turned out one of the doors had a problem with its sensor switch. The movement of loading the tapes caused the machine to think the door had opened, and to protect puny humans the arm was programmed to immediately drop to the floor. ?By chance, that occurred while the robot had its fingers in a tape slot. ?It was willing to harm itself instead of possibly harm a human.On 2/7/2025 8:27 AM, Jeff Bassett wrote:Charles,
All true - with the caveat - when it worked - it was fun and amazing - HOWEVER, when it failed - there were some horrific messes -
We used to laugh that this was a VERY INTELLIGENT MACHINE - such, that when it would discover that there was some error condition on a cartridge - it would IMMEDIATELY grab it and DESTROY IT - so you would not have to deal with bad data - HA
?-J-
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On Fri, Feb 07, 2025 at 11:00:41PM +0000, Dave Trainor - N8ZFM wrote: It seems to me there is still a need for the larger spinning disks in
array's for massive amounts of data, would be dog gone expensive to put
all that on solid state and the speed is not required in that application,
like for my video storage of movies and tv shows. My current employer recently received three new DS8A00 storage arrays, the latest, 10th generation, in IBM's DS8000 SAN storage array line. All drives in the arrays are flash core modules. -- Kevin Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
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This discussion has been interesting, a good idea that never really worked out due to implementation. --- I was unaware that IBM had discontinued all spinning platters, while I certainly myself would not think of using anything other than a SSD as my boot device on any machine. It seems to me there is still a need for the larger spinning disks in array's for massive amounts of data, would be dog gone expensive to put all that on solid state and the speed is not required in that application, like for my video storage of movies and tv shows. But I guess as time goes on it for sure will be the future. Thanks for the interesting stories of this device I had not heard of before, seems like I was lucky I missed out on the 3850. Thanks, Dave ?On 2/7/25, 11:03 AM, " [email protected] <mailto: [email protected]> on behalf of Jeff Bassett" < [email protected] <mailto: [email protected]> on behalf of bassettj@... <mailto:bassettj@...>> wrote: Dave, The 3850 mass store was at the time quite a device - And due to the high cost of DASD at the time - it really did serve a purpose - At the larger shops that had these - you will hear all manner of horror stories - there were some doozies - believe me - The device was of course very mechanical - and - as such - had many places and opportunities to have failures - This was of early introduction of robotics to do the mounts - THANKFULLY they are gone - relegated to these old stories - Today - we use similar techniques - with HSM (Hierarchical Storage Manager) to back up and recall when required data sets - And of course, HSM has evolved - from using special staging disks to migrating to tape - with auto mounts - and now in today's world VTS which are now entire virtual tape systems - that are entire units that are full of staging DASD - and special units that EMULATE tape - Remember - IBM no longer even sells spinning rust - everything is now solid state - shows how much the technology has evolved. Regards -J- Jeff Bassett Bassettj@... <mailto:Bassettj@...> (301) 424-3362 (office) (240) 388-7148 Cell Time spent flying - is NOT deducted from one’s lifespan
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <mailto: [email protected]> < [email protected] <mailto: [email protected]>> On Behalf Of Dave Trainor - N8ZFM via groups.io Sent: Friday, February 7, 2025 1:22 AM To: [email protected] <mailto: [email protected]> Subject: [H390-MVS] Historical Question So I am studying the OS JCL and Utilities book (Michael Trombetta) from the mid 80's, good book ,was recommended to me for the MVS 3.8j era of JCL. Am happy with it and can also recommend it. They discuss utilization of the MSS storage device(s) a 3850, and at the mid 80's of the book it was a current device, seems to consist of a 3330 disk (maybe more than one) and a series of tape carts, with an "invisible" autoloader system, so as to implement "near-line" storage. Only one actual dasd and a bunch of different images of it on tape, that would be recalled by the VOLSER from MVS and loaded on the live DASD where it was then a live 3330 disk. (obviously a delay in preforming this "staging operation" as I take it was called). Probably more complicated in reality but that is my gist of the functionality. Different logically but easier than mounting a tape, doing a restore, then archiving, not as fast as having dedicated DASD. I assume since I can't find it in Hercules, that this device and not sure to call it tape or disk - is not emulated by Hercules, probably would not be useful and no one uses any such scheme since the mid 80 As the need probably got replaced quickly by vastly larger amounts of cheap DASD being available? Anyone know? Or remember these things and why they are obscure today? I do not see this as being the same functionality as a backup tape library (automounter) of true tapes treated as tapes which is for sure still being utilized. Is my assessment of what this 3850 MSS device was correct? And why we don't have an emulation for such a thing anymore? Thanks, Dave N8ZFM
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Back in, probably the mid 1990's, the competitive analysis team of
the tape development mission in Tucson, bought one of these STK tape
library silos and played around with it.? They wanted to find a way
to increase market share for our IBM tape drives.? They developed a
modified version of our tape drive's microcode so that it would
identify itself as an STK tape drive and accept commands from the
STK silo.? This would allow it to be mounted in an STK silo in place
of an STK drive.
IBM's first offering of a tape library was a fast-track effort to
throw together something that could compete with STK's tape
library.? They re-purposed some giant robot mechanism that had been
developed for something else to make it do the job of storing and
retrieving tapes from a long linear library.? They nicknamed it
"Conan the Librarian".? It was a huge overkill but it did the job.
IBM's later tape libraries were much better.? They had several of
these in some of our labs running 24/7 with some software that would
issue continuous random requests for mounts and unmounts of tapes,
looking for failures so that the cause could be investigated and
corrected.? I think some of the largest libraries could hold 50K
tape cartridges.
Charles Bailey
On 2025-02-07 10:44, S. L. Garwood via
groups.io wrote:
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Oh yes .. the MSS (or Mess as we used to call it). The JES3
interfaces were horrendous - JES3 tried to own all tapes and
disks. The cobbled together MSS support was a support nightmare.
At the time I was supporting one of our JES3 complexes. ISTR we
had 2 of the beasts and they were heavy - the floor had to be
checked for weight limits. I used to have a cartridge somewhere
but it got lost in one of my moves (or my wife threw it out,
along with a complete set of the PL/1 Optimizing and Checkout
compiler manuals). That and the IBM tape library were 2 of the
not so great ideas from big blue. The STC tape library (the
round one) was faster, had better support.
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Oh yes .. the MSS (or Mess as we used to call it). The JES3 interfaces were horrendous - JES3 tried to own all tapes and disks. The cobbled together MSS support was a support nightmare. At the time I was supporting one of our JES3 complexes. ISTR we had 2 of the beasts and they were heavy - the floor had to be checked for weight limits. I used to have a cartridge somewhere but it got lost in one of my moves (or my wife threw it out, along with a complete set of the PL/1 Optimizing and Checkout compiler manuals). That and the IBM tape library were 2 of the not so great ideas from big blue. The STC tape library (the round one) was faster, had better support.
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Even modern machines can be interesting. I was on-site at an implementation of a new IBM tape robot box a few years back. The box tested out fine, but intermittently shut down when we were loading tapes. Eventually during one shutdown one robot broke its plastic fingers off.
It turned out one of the doors had a problem with its sensor switch. The movement of loading the tapes caused the machine to think the door had opened, and to protect puny humans the arm was programmed to immediately drop to the floor. By chance, that occurred while the robot had its fingers in a tape slot. It was willing to harm itself instead of possibly harm a human.
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On 2/7/2025 8:27 AM, Jeff Bassett wrote: Charles,
All true - with the caveat - when it worked - it was fun and amazing - HOWEVER, when it failed - there were some horrific messes -
We used to laugh that this was a VERY INTELLIGENT MACHINE - such, that when it would discover that there was some error condition on a cartridge - it would IMMEDIATELY grab it and DESTROY IT - so you would not have to deal with bad data - HA
-J-
Jeff Bassett
Bassettj@...
(301) 424-3362 (office)
(240) 388-7148 Cell
Time spent flying - is NOT deducted from one’s lifespan
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Charles Bailey via groups.io
Sent: Friday, February 7, 2025 11:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [H390-MVS] Historical Question
When I worked for IBM in Tucson, AZ, in the early 1980's, much of our data was stored on MSS. When we would run a foreground job from TSO, the application would typically output a message like: "Allocating datasets, please be patient". That is because executing a statement like "ALLOC DD(xxxx) DSN(xxx.yyy.zzz)" took a half minute to a full minute to execute. The MSS monstrosity was amazing to watch in operation. It consisted of a wall of honeycomb-like compartments where the tapes were stored. The operation of the whole contraption was mostly transparent to the user. The command to allocate a dataset would cause the picker to locate the honeycomb location where the tape was stored, retrieve it, and mount it on a device that emulated a DASD. I don't think the tape was copied to a real DASD. Data was read from and written directly to the tape, which was quite wide. I think each vertical (crosswise) stripe on the tape emulated a DASD track. When a FREE command was executed, the tape would be rewound back into the cartridge and the picker would put it back into the honeycomb. I'm not sure if any special support would be required from Hercules. I think the VOLSER of the tape appeared to the OS as just another 3330 DASD.
(This is all from my distant memory of conversations with older engineers would used to work on the beast. I'm sure an internet search would yield a much better description.)
Charles Bailey
On 2025-02-07 00:21, Dave Trainor - N8ZFM wrote:
So I am studying the OS JCL and Utilities book (Michael Trombetta) from the mid 80's, good book ,was recommended to me for the MVS 3.8j era of JCL. Am happy with it and can also recommend it.
They discuss utilization of the MSS storage device(s) a 3850, and at the mid 80's of the book it was a current device, seems to consist of a 3330 disk (maybe more than one) and a series of tape carts, with an "invisible" autoloader system, so as to implement "near-line" storage. Only one actual dasd and a bunch of different images of it on tape, that would be recalled by the VOLSER from MVS and loaded on the live DASD where it was then a live 3330 disk. (obviously a delay in preforming this "staging operation" as I take it was called).
Probably more complicated in reality but that is my gist of the functionality. Different logically but easier than mounting a tape, doing a restore, then archiving, not as fast as having dedicated DASD.
I assume since I can't find it in Hercules, that this device and not sure to call it tape or disk - is not emulated by Hercules, probably would not be useful and no one uses any such scheme since the mid 80 As the need probably got replaced quickly by vastly larger amounts of cheap DASD being available? Anyone know? Or remember these things and why they are obscure today?
I do not see this as being the same functionality as a backup tape library (automounter) of true tapes treated as tapes which is for sure still being utilized.
Is my assessment of what this 3850 MSS device was correct? And why we don't have an emulation for such a thing anymore?
Thanks,
Dave N8ZFM
|
Charles,
All true - with the caveat - when it worked - it was fun and amazing - HOWEVER, when it failed - there were some horrific messes -
We used to laugh that this was a VERY INTELLIGENT MACHINE - such, that when it would discover that there was some error condition on a cartridge - it would IMMEDIATELY grab it and DESTROY IT - so you would not have to deal with bad data - HA
-J-
Jeff Bassett
Bassettj@...
(301) 424-3362 (office)
(240) 388-7148 Cell
Time spent flying - is NOT deducted from one’s lifespan
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Charles Bailey via groups.io Sent: Friday, February 7, 2025 11:23 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [H390-MVS] Historical Question When I worked for IBM in Tucson, AZ, in the early 1980's, much of our data was stored on MSS. When we would run a foreground job from TSO, the application would typically output a message like: "Allocating datasets, please be patient". That is because executing a statement like "ALLOC DD(xxxx) DSN(xxx.yyy.zzz)" took a half minute to a full minute to execute. The MSS monstrosity was amazing to watch in operation. It consisted of a wall of honeycomb-like compartments where the tapes were stored. The operation of the whole contraption was mostly transparent to the user. The command to allocate a dataset would cause the picker to locate the honeycomb location where the tape was stored, retrieve it, and mount it on a device that emulated a DASD. I don't think the tape was copied to a real DASD. Data was read from and written directly to the tape, which was quite wide. I think each vertical (crosswise) stripe on the tape emulated a DASD track. When a FREE command was executed, the tape would be rewound back into the cartridge and the picker would put it back into the honeycomb. I'm not sure if any special support would be required from Hercules. I think the VOLSER of the tape appeared to the OS as just another 3330 DASD. (This is all from my distant memory of conversations with older engineers would used to work on the beast. I'm sure an internet search would yield a much better description.) Charles Bailey On 2025-02-07 00:21, Dave Trainor - N8ZFM wrote: So I am studying the OS JCL and Utilities book (Michael Trombetta) from the mid 80's, good book ,was recommended to me for the MVS 3.8j era of JCL. Am happy with it and can also recommend it.
They discuss utilization of the MSS storage device(s) a 3850, and at the mid 80's of the book it was a current device, seems to consist of a 3330 disk (maybe more than one) and a series of tape carts, with an "invisible" autoloader system, so as to implement "near-line" storage. Only one actual dasd and a bunch of different images of it on tape, that would be recalled by the VOLSER from MVS and loaded on the live DASD where it was then a live 3330 disk. (obviously a delay in preforming this "staging operation" as I take it was called).
Probably more complicated in reality but that is my gist of the functionality. Different logically but easier than mounting a tape, doing a restore, then archiving, not as fast as having dedicated DASD.
I assume since I can't find it in Hercules, that this device and not sure to call it tape or disk - is not emulated by Hercules, probably would not be useful and no one uses any such scheme since the mid 80 As the need probably got replaced quickly by vastly larger amounts of cheap DASD being available? Anyone know? Or remember these things and why they are obscure today?
I do not see this as being the same functionality as a backup tape library (automounter) of true tapes treated as tapes which is for sure still being utilized.
Is my assessment of what this 3850 MSS device was correct? And why we don't have an emulation for such a thing anymore?
Thanks,
Dave N8ZFM
|
When I worked for IBM in Tucson, AZ, in the early 1980's, much of our data was stored on MSS. When we would run a foreground job from TSO, the application would typically output a message like: "Allocating datasets, please be patient". That is because executing a statement like "ALLOC DD(xxxx) DSN(xxx.yyy.zzz)" took a half minute to a full minute to execute. The MSS monstrosity was amazing to watch in operation. It consisted of a wall of honeycomb-like compartments where the tapes were stored. The operation of the whole contraption was mostly transparent to the user. The command to allocate a dataset would cause the picker to locate the honeycomb location where the tape was stored, retrieve it, and mount it on a device that emulated a DASD. I don't think the tape was copied to a real DASD. Data was read from and written directly to the tape, which was quite wide. I think each vertical (crosswise) stripe on the tape emulated a DASD track. When a FREE command was executed, the tape would be rewound back into the cartridge and the picker would put it back into the honeycomb. I'm not sure if any special support would be required from Hercules. I think the VOLSER of the tape appeared to the OS as just another 3330 DASD. (This is all from my distant memory of conversations with older engineers would used to work on the beast. I'm sure an internet search would yield a much better description.)
Charles Bailey
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On 2025-02-07 00:21, Dave Trainor - N8ZFM wrote: So I am studying the OS JCL and Utilities book (Michael Trombetta) from the mid 80's, good book ,was recommended to me for the MVS 3.8j era of JCL. Am happy with it and can also recommend it.
They discuss utilization of the MSS storage device(s) a 3850, and at the mid 80's of the book it was a current device, seems to consist of a 3330 disk (maybe more than one) and a series of tape carts, with an "invisible" autoloader system, so as to implement "near-line" storage. Only one actual dasd and a bunch of different images of it on tape, that would be recalled by the VOLSER from MVS and loaded on the live DASD where it was then a live 3330 disk. (obviously a delay in preforming this "staging operation" as I take it was called).
Probably more complicated in reality but that is my gist of the functionality. Different logically but easier than mounting a tape, doing a restore, then archiving, not as fast as having dedicated DASD.
I assume since I can't find it in Hercules, that this device and not sure to call it tape or disk - is not emulated by Hercules, probably would not be useful and no one uses any such scheme since the mid 80 As the need probably got replaced quickly by vastly larger amounts of cheap DASD being available? Anyone know? Or remember these things and why they are obscure today?
I do not see this as being the same functionality as a backup tape library (automounter) of true tapes treated as tapes which is for sure still being utilized.
Is my assessment of what this 3850 MSS device was correct? And why we don't have an emulation for such a thing anymore?
Thanks,
Dave N8ZFM
|
Dave,
The 3850 mass store was at the time quite a device -
And due to the high cost of DASD at the time - it really did serve a purpose -
At the larger shops that had these - you will hear all manner of horror stories - there were some doozies - believe me -
The device was of course very mechanical - and - as such - had many places and opportunities to have failures -
This was of early introduction of robotics to do the mounts -
THANKFULLY they are gone - relegated to these old stories -
Today - we use similar techniques - with HSM (Hierarchical Storage Manager) to back up and recall when required data sets -
And of course, HSM has evolved - from using special staging disks to migrating to tape - with auto mounts - and now in today's world VTS which are now entire virtual tape systems - that are entire units that are full of staging DASD - and special units that EMULATE tape -
Remember - IBM no longer even sells spinning rust - everything is now solid state - shows how much the technology has evolved.
Regards
-J-
Jeff Bassett
Bassettj@...
(301) 424-3362 (office)
(240) 388-7148 Cell
Time spent flying - is NOT deducted from one’s lifespan
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Trainor - N8ZFM via groups.io Sent: Friday, February 7, 2025 1:22 AM To: [email protected]Subject: [H390-MVS] Historical Question So I am studying the OS JCL and Utilities book (Michael Trombetta) from the mid 80's, good book ,was recommended to me for the MVS 3.8j era of JCL. Am happy with it and can also recommend it. They discuss utilization of the MSS storage device(s) a 3850, and at the mid 80's of the book it was a current device, seems to consist of a 3330 disk (maybe more than one) and a series of tape carts, with an "invisible" autoloader system, so as to implement "near-line" storage. Only one actual dasd and a bunch of different images of it on tape, that would be recalled by the VOLSER from MVS and loaded on the live DASD where it was then a live 3330 disk. (obviously a delay in preforming this "staging operation" as I take it was called). Probably more complicated in reality but that is my gist of the functionality. Different logically but easier than mounting a tape, doing a restore, then archiving, not as fast as having dedicated DASD. I assume since I can't find it in Hercules, that this device and not sure to call it tape or disk - is not emulated by Hercules, probably would not be useful and no one uses any such scheme since the mid 80 As the need probably got replaced quickly by vastly larger amounts of cheap DASD being available? Anyone know? Or remember these things and why they are obscure today? I do not see this as being the same functionality as a backup tape library (automounter) of true tapes treated as tapes which is for sure still being utilized. Is my assessment of what this 3850 MSS device was correct? And why we don't have an emulation for such a thing anymore? Thanks, Dave N8ZFM
|
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On Fri, Feb 7, 2025 at 12:21?AM Dave Trainor - N8ZFM via <dave= [email protected]> wrote: So I am studying the OS JCL and Utilities book (Michael Trombetta) from the mid 80's, good book ,was recommended to me for the MVS 3.8j era of JCL.? Am happy with it and can also recommend it.
They discuss utilization of the MSS storage device(s) a 3850, and at the mid 80's of the book it was a current device, seems to consist of a 3330 disk (maybe more than one) and a series of tape carts, with an "invisible" autoloader system, so as to implement "near-line" storage.? ?Only one actual dasd and a bunch of different images of it on tape, that would be recalled by the VOLSER from MVS and loaded on the live DASD where it was then a live 3330 disk. (obviously a delay in preforming this "staging operation" as I take it was called).
Probably more complicated in reality but that is my gist of the functionality.? ?Different logically but easier than mounting a tape, doing a restore, then archiving, not as fast as having dedicated DASD.
I assume since I can't find it in Hercules, that this device and not sure to call it tape or disk - is not emulated by Hercules, probably would not be useful and no one uses any such scheme since the mid 80 As the need probably got replaced quickly by vastly larger amounts of cheap DASD being available?? ? Anyone know?? ?Or remember these things and why they are obscure today?
I do not see this as being the same functionality as a backup tape library (automounter) of true tapes treated as tapes which is for sure still being utilized.
Is my assessment of what this 3850 MSS device was correct? And why we don't have an emulation for such a thing anymore?
Thanks,
Dave N8ZFM
-- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
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On 07/02/2025 06:37, Jay Maynard via
groups.io wrote:
The 3850 (and the 2821 before it, which performed a
similar function in a much different manner) were notoriously
unreliable, with serious issues surrounding the function of
retrieving and storing of cartridges. When they worked, they
worked fairly well, but the problems were such that people
tended to design their systems not to need that functionality.
Only a few of the largest customers had them, and only for uses
where they needed the performance. Eventually, software such as
DFHSM and equivalents from Sterling Software and FDR provided
the same function with standard tapes.
I would say it was hard to design systems that made efficient use of
them. I can see that some Universities and research organizations in
the UK had them. I think at Manchester University they were used for
storing data for an individual user. I think in a commercial setting
it might be hard to design a system that made efficient use of them.
As they were unreliable I imagine you would want them backed up and
I can't see how you would achieve that..
On Fri, Feb 7, 2025 at
12:21?AM Dave Trainor - N8ZFM via <dave= [email protected]>
wrote:
So
I am studying the OS JCL and Utilities book (Michael
Trombetta) from the mid 80's, good book ,was recommended to me
for the MVS 3.8j era of JCL.? Am happy with it and can also
recommend it.
They discuss utilization of the MSS storage device(s) a 3850,
and at the mid 80's of the book it was a current device, seems
to consist of a 3330 disk (maybe more than one) and a series
of tape carts, with an "invisible" autoloader system, so as to
implement "near-line" storage.? ?Only one actual dasd and a
bunch of different images of it on tape, that would be
recalled by the VOLSER from MVS and loaded on the live DASD
where it was then a live 3330 disk. (obviously a delay in
preforming this "staging operation" as I take it was called).
Probably more complicated in reality but that is my gist of
the functionality.? ?Different logically but easier than
mounting a tape, doing a restore, then archiving, not as fast
as having dedicated DASD.
Not really. Thats pretty much what it did. The complex bit probably
writing the updated disk track back to the 3330.
I assume since I can't find it in Hercules, that this device
and not sure to call it tape or disk - is not emulated by
Hercules, probably would not be useful and no one uses any
such scheme since the mid 80 As the need probably got replaced
quickly by vastly larger amounts of cheap DASD being
available?? ? Anyone know?? ?Or remember these things and why
they are obscure today?
Not many made. Really only useful in special, e.g. R&D settings.
Quickly eclipsed by cartridge loaders and larger disks. Some
recollections by VMers are here
I do not see this as being the same functionality as a backup
tape library (automounter) of true tapes treated as tapes
which is for sure still being utilized.
It wasn't. A common use was in Universities and research where each
user had a cartridge.
Is my assessment of what this 3850 MSS device was correct?
Pretty much
And
why we don't have an emulation for such a thing anymore?
I think no love for it. People write emulations because they have a
love for something. No one loved the MSS.
Also getting to right amount of unreliability to make a realistic
emulation might be tricky, even on windows.
--
Dave
G4UGM
|
The 3850 (and the 2821 before it, which performed a similar function in a much different manner) were notoriously unreliable, with serious issues surrounding the function of retrieving and storing of cartridges. When they worked, they worked fairly well, but the problems were such that people tended to design their systems not to need that functionality. Only a few of the largest customers had them, and only for uses where they needed the performance. Eventually, software such as DFHSM and equivalents from Sterling Software and FDR provided the same function with standard tapes.
On Fri, Feb 7, 2025 at 12:21?AM Dave Trainor - N8ZFM via <dave= [email protected]> wrote: So I am studying the OS JCL and Utilities book (Michael Trombetta) from the mid 80's, good book ,was recommended to me for the MVS 3.8j era of JCL.? Am happy with it and can also recommend it.
They discuss utilization of the MSS storage device(s) a 3850, and at the mid 80's of the book it was a current device, seems to consist of a 3330 disk (maybe more than one) and a series of tape carts, with an "invisible" autoloader system, so as to implement "near-line" storage.? ?Only one actual dasd and a bunch of different images of it on tape, that would be recalled by the VOLSER from MVS and loaded on the live DASD where it was then a live 3330 disk. (obviously a delay in preforming this "staging operation" as I take it was called).
Probably more complicated in reality but that is my gist of the functionality.? ?Different logically but easier than mounting a tape, doing a restore, then archiving, not as fast as having dedicated DASD.
I assume since I can't find it in Hercules, that this device and not sure to call it tape or disk - is not emulated by Hercules, probably would not be useful and no one uses any such scheme since the mid 80 As the need probably got replaced quickly by vastly larger amounts of cheap DASD being available?? ? Anyone know?? ?Or remember these things and why they are obscure today?
I do not see this as being the same functionality as a backup tape library (automounter) of true tapes treated as tapes which is for sure still being utilized.
Is my assessment of what this 3850 MSS device was correct? And why we don't have an emulation for such a thing anymore?
Thanks,
Dave N8ZFM
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So I am studying the OS JCL and Utilities book (Michael Trombetta) from the mid 80's, good book ,was recommended to me for the MVS 3.8j era of JCL. Am happy with it and can also recommend it.
They discuss utilization of the MSS storage device(s) a 3850, and at the mid 80's of the book it was a current device, seems to consist of a 3330 disk (maybe more than one) and a series of tape carts, with an "invisible" autoloader system, so as to implement "near-line" storage. Only one actual dasd and a bunch of different images of it on tape, that would be recalled by the VOLSER from MVS and loaded on the live DASD where it was then a live 3330 disk. (obviously a delay in preforming this "staging operation" as I take it was called).
Probably more complicated in reality but that is my gist of the functionality. Different logically but easier than mounting a tape, doing a restore, then archiving, not as fast as having dedicated DASD.
I assume since I can't find it in Hercules, that this device and not sure to call it tape or disk - is not emulated by Hercules, probably would not be useful and no one uses any such scheme since the mid 80 As the need probably got replaced quickly by vastly larger amounts of cheap DASD being available? Anyone know? Or remember these things and why they are obscure today?
I do not see this as being the same functionality as a backup tape library (automounter) of true tapes treated as tapes which is for sure still being utilized.
Is my assessment of what this 3850 MSS device was correct? And why we don't have an emulation for such a thing anymore?
Thanks,
Dave N8ZFM
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Hi All,
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I will release MVS-TK5 Update 4 in a few days.
Review 51.6 is included and many more components.
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Cheers,
Rob
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Re: The FUTURE is here. Finally! AI from IBM that can answer all your MVS, z/OS, z/VM, JCL, HLASM or COBOL questions. FOR FREE!!!
Dear Patrik,
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I get your skepticism, but i was not born yesterday, and also pretty familiar with all this new AI stuff.
Of course if you ask deep complex question, there is a chance that you will get some bullshit from LM.
I am not suggesting to use it exclusively and throw away all books. I am just saying that it is very easy to get quick answer, when you are not sure.
Here is an example, i just asked it about some console output:
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Explain provided line from z/OS console:
HWI008I BCPII FAILED TO CONNECT TO THE LOCAL CENTRAL PROCESSOR
?COMPLEX (CPC). RC = 00000101, RSN = 00000082. BCPII INITIALIZATION IS HALTED. ?
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His answer:
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Here's detailed explanation:
BCPii (Base Control Program internal interface): This z/OS component facilitates the management of mainframe resources such as processors,
memory, and channel subsystems from a single system image or sysplex environment. It enables advanced automation, monitoring, and management capabilities for CPCs.
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CPC (Central Processor Complex): The central processing unit of a mainframe computer, comprising one or more processors,
memory, and Input/Output (I/O) controllers. BCPii communicates with the CPC to gather information about its status and configuration.
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z/OS Communication Manager: A part of the z/OS operating system responsible for managing communication
between systems and devices in a sysplex environment, including BCPii-to-CPC communication.
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Analyzing the error message components:
RC = 00000101 (Return Code): This code signifies an error during function execution, specifically a failure to establish a connection between BCPii and the CPC.
Return codes help identify and categorize errors for troubleshooting purposes.
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RSN = 00000082 (Reason Code): This code provides more specific information about why the error occurred.
Reason code 82 points to an issue within z/OS Communication Manager (z/OS Comm). It could be due to misconfiguration, network connectivity problems, or issues within z/OS Comm itself.
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The message indicates that "BCPII INITIALIZATION IS HALTED," meaning BCPii services are unavailable because of the connection failure.
This may impact other operations relying on BCPii for managing and monitoring mainframe resources.
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To resolve this issue:
Review and verify your z/OS Comm configuration to ensure it is correctly set up for BCPii-to-CPC communication.
Check network connectivity, firewall rules, and any relevant parameters in the COMMUNICATIONS section of the BCPii profile dataset (IXCPROFxx).
Investigate potential issues within z/OS Comm itself, such as outdated code levels or known defects. Apply PTFs (Program Temporary Fixes) if necessary, or consult IBM support for further assistance.
Restart BCPii services after addressing the identified problem and confirming that communication with the CPC is established successfully.
Understanding these components and error codes enables you to diagnose and resolve the issue preventing BCPii from connecting to the local CPC effectively.
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Best wishes,
Andre
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Re: The FUTURE is here. Finally! AI from IBM that can answer all your MVS, z/OS, z/VM, JCL, HLASM or COBOL questions. FOR FREE!!!
Hello Andre, I hate to spoil your enthusiasm, but… Am 04.02.2025 um 22:02 schrieb Andre via groups.io <> <procritic@...>: My dreams come true … and a dream it is. If you blindly trust today's whatever AI's output you get what you deserve. Always verify allegations. And if you need to check, and AI asking + checking takes more time than doing proper research in the first place, what's the point of wasting time with AI? AI can be helpful for certain tasks, but as long as the "I" is for "Idiot", just be careful. :wq! PoC
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The FUTURE is here. Finally! AI from IBM that can answer all your MVS, z/OS, z/VM, JCL, HLASM or COBOL questions. FOR FREE!!!
Hello guys, good news indeed.
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My dreams come true, i don't need to search answers in documentation anymore,
because there is AI Helper from IBM itself, which will explain to me in detail anything and everything mainframe related.
He can even help with JCL, HLASM or COBOL programming.
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And the best part of it - you can run it locally, on your machine, completely for free!
Very easy setup for Windows 10 users, also available for Linux and Mac.
1. You need VideoCard with at least 6GB of video memory. Well, i use NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB.
2. You need middle class 64bit PC with at least 16GB of RAM and multicore CPU. The more the better.
3. Go to and download installer for your system.
4. Run it, open 'Discover' panel and search for "Granite 3.1 8B", it is LLM from IBM supporting up to 128K context length, trained on 500B tokens.
5. Download it and after that you can launch it from inside your video memory! It is trained on IBM stuff, and answers pretty quickly.
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No more waiting for someone on the forum to answer your stupid question. Now you can get the answer almost instantly from AI.
What i know, is that you can access this same model online at IBM cloud through watsonx, but it will cost you money.
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Best wishes,
Andre
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Hello Greg, Am 21.01.2025 um 11:15 schrieb Greg Price via groups.io <procegrog@...>: Broadly speaking, copy the load modules into a linklist library and then issue the desired TSO command(s) at the READY prompt.
Examples of such TSO commands are
REV mydsname
REV SYSPROC F
RFE
REVOUT
REVLEV
FSH ALLOC O(UNIT)
For extra functionality copy the CLISTs with names beginning with REV into a SYSPROC DD library.
If you want, you can copy the HELP members into a SYSHELP DD library.
If you have a TK-based system then likely these libraries already have versions of these programs.
Look in libraries like SYS2.CMDLIB and SYS2.LINKLIB to find out where the existing copies are.
The PANELS members can be copied into an ISPPLIB DD library, but if you have such a library then they may already be there. Has anybody done an install "procedure" (aka: JCL) matching the turnkey environment? I think this might be a good add-on to the distribution package of REVIEW, since it would ease updating for those who aren't that much fluent with the environment — like me, for example. :-) :wq! PoC
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Jeff Bassett
Rob Prins