Frankly, Rahim, this is ?a pretty silly statement, even for you.
Some people like pork, some people dont.
Some people eat cows, some people dont.
Without Microsoft, DOS, and Windows, the ?PC world would not be nearly as robust as it is today.
Joe
On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 11:13 AM Rahim Azizarab via <rahimazizarab= [email protected]> wrote: Emancipate yourself by switching to Linux.? You can move forward much quicker with Linux mint than with Windows.? Windows is for the corporate folks that have a lot of money to burn and time to waste; the rest of us need to be a little bit more efficient. ?
On Wednesday, November 18, 2020, 3:12:00 AM CST, Patrik Schindler < poc@...> wrote:
Hello Peter, Am 18.11.2020 um 02:42 schrieb pjfarley3 < pjfarley3@...>: > I disagree with Patrik on one point: Many of us who use MSWin hosts aren¡¯t all necessarily competent enough or have enough ¡°round tuits¡± available to ¡°build our own¡± SDL Hercules from source. That¡¯s why I wrote: ?or readily compiled for their particular platform¡°. :-) :wq! PoC
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Hello Rahim, Am 18.11.2020 um 18:13 schrieb Rahim Azizarab via groups.io <rahimazizarab@...>: Emancipate yourself by switching to Linux. You can move forward much quicker with Linux mint than with Windows. Windows is for the corporate folks that have a lot of money to burn and time to waste; the rest of us need to be a little bit more efficient. Besides your post being largely off topic in here¡ Most people are using Windows for a reason. Also, efficiency is tightly paired with knowledge, skill and routine. (I don¡¯t know why you followed up to my remark. Maybe you¡¯ve meant to answer Peter?) :wq! PoC
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Emancipate yourself by switching to Linux.? You can move forward much quicker with Linux mint than with Windows.? Windows is for the corporate folks that have a lot of money to burn and time to waste; the rest of us need to be a little bit more efficient. ?
On Wednesday, November 18, 2020, 3:12:00 AM CST, Patrik Schindler <poc@...> wrote:
Hello Peter, Am 18.11.2020 um 02:42 schrieb pjfarley3 < pjfarley3@...>: > I disagree with Patrik on one point: Many of us who use MSWin hosts aren¡¯t all necessarily competent enough or have enough ¡°round tuits¡± available to ¡°build our own¡± SDL Hercules from source. That¡¯s why I wrote: ?or readily compiled for their particular platform¡°. :-) :wq! PoC
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Re: Attn does not interrupt
On 2020-11-18 9:08 PM, Rupert Reynolds wrote: Attn could interrupt any TSO program I think ATTN button functionality depends on having an SNA session. If your TSO terminal is an MVS 3270 I/O device with its own device address, then that is a non-SNA session and so ATTN does not function.? PA1 will perform the TSO attention function - use RESET first to undo an input-inhibited state first if necessary. Given the limited number of I/O addresses and the growth of networks over the years, as time went on a greater percentage of TSO connectivity came under the SNA and SNA-like umbrella, with ATTN often working even for modern TSO sessions over TCP/IP (depending on the TN3270 parameters used for Communication Server). When a 3270 terminal is an I/O device, ATTN may not be an AID-generating key - or so I imagine, but I'm not really a network guy. Cheers, Greg
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Re: Attn does not interrupt
Oh, I can stop it! If PA1 doesn't work, /C U=ROOPS at the console gets the job done :-)
Sometimes, PA1 interrupts (which is not my experience from MVS/XA and TSO/E in the 1990s).
But I'm wondering whether it's? change in VTAM perhaps, or a configuration issue. Thinking about it, I'm not even sure when VTAM was released! Perhaps it wasn't originally bundled with MVS 3.8?
Try PA1 twice ? ? When I worked on MVS/XA via VTAM in the 1990s, Attn could interrupt any TSO program doing terminal I/O using Attn. PA1 produced a similar response from TSO, with the vertical bar on screen, except that it could not be sent while the terminal was locked. With Vista,? x3270 and wc3270, Attn gives me nothing, even at a READY to prompt. Yet if i press it a few times, I suddenly go to the VTAM logon screen. Meanwhile, PA1 will sometimes interrupt, and sometimes not. Is this expected behviour in MVS 3.8j, please? _._,_._,_
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Re: Attn does not interrupt
On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 09:33:15 -0300, Jo?o Reginato <jb.reginato@...> wrote: Try PA1 twice
It is very common to have the TSO prompt right after the first PA1. At the prompt an "END" command should finish the execution. HTH
De: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Em nome de Rupert
Reynolds Enviada em: quarta-feira, 18 de novembro de 2020 07:08 Para:
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Assunto: [H390-MVS]
Attn does not interrupt
When I worked on MVS/XA via VTAM in the 1990s, Attn could interrupt
any TSO program doing terminal I/O using Attn. PA1 produced a similar
response from TSO, with the vertical bar on screen, except that it
could not be sent while the terminal was locked.
With Vista, x3270 and wc3270, Attn gives me nothing, even at a READY
to prompt. Yet if i press it a few times, I suddenly go to the VTAM
logon screen. Meanwhile, PA1 will sometimes interrupt, and sometimes
not.
Is this expected behviour in MVS 3.8j, please?
Roops
Roxo -- ---------------- Non luctari, ludare -------------------+ WYSIWYG Fernando M. Roxo da Motta <mvs@...> | Editor? Except where explicitly stated I speak on my own behalf.| VI !! PU5RXO | I see text, ------------ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?-------------+ I get text!
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RES: [H390-MVS] Attn does not interrupt
Try PA1 twice ? ? When I worked on MVS/XA via VTAM in the 1990s, Attn could interrupt any TSO program doing terminal I/O using Attn. PA1 produced a similar response from TSO, with the vertical bar on screen, except that it could not be sent while the terminal was locked. With Vista,? x3270 and wc3270, Attn gives me nothing, even at a READY to prompt. Yet if i press it a few times, I suddenly go to the VTAM logon screen. Meanwhile, PA1 will sometimes interrupt, and sometimes not. Is this expected behviour in MVS 3.8j, please?
--
att.
Jo?o
-- att. Jo?o
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RES: [H390-MVS] Attn does not interrupt
Try PA1 ? ? When I worked on MVS/XA via VTAM in the 1990s, Attn could interrupt any TSO program doing terminal I/O using Attn. PA1 produced a similar response from TSO, with the vertical bar on screen, except that it could not be sent while the terminal was locked. With Vista,? x3270 and wc3270, Attn gives me nothing, even at a READY to prompt. Yet if i press it a few times, I suddenly go to the VTAM logon screen. Meanwhile, PA1 will sometimes interrupt, and sometimes not. Is this expected behviour in MVS 3.8j, please? -- att. Jo?o
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When I worked on MVS/XA via VTAM in the 1990s, Attn could interrupt any TSO program doing terminal I/O using Attn. PA1 produced a similar response from TSO, with the vertical bar on screen, except that it could not be sent while the terminal was locked.
With Vista,? x3270 and wc3270, Attn gives me nothing, even at a READY to prompt. Yet if i press it a few times, I suddenly go to the VTAM logon screen. Meanwhile, PA1 will sometimes interrupt, and sometimes not.
Is this expected behviour in MVS 3.8j, please?
Roops
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Hello Peter, Am 18.11.2020 um 02:42 schrieb pjfarley3 <pjfarley3@...>: I disagree with Patrik on one point: Many of us who use MSWin hosts aren¡¯t all necessarily competent enough or have enough ¡°round tuits¡± available to ¡°build our own¡± SDL Hercules from source. That¡¯s why I wrote: ?or readily compiled for their particular platform¡°. :-) :wq! PoC
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Thanks for the reply ´³¨¹°ù²µ±ð²Ô. ? I mostly agree with Patrik (who replied earlier) that a TK4 release with a stable SDL Hercules in it¡¯s current form MINUS the unstable TXF facility would still be very useful to those of us running MVS3.8J aa well as those running more advanced but still ¡°back level¡± OS systems that don¡¯t require TXF. ? It seems to me that TK4 need not support the ¡°bleeding edge¡± of Hercules, and in fact may benefit from not being ¡°out there¡± in the engine underlying it all.? Even if the SDL TXF issues are resolved soonish, it will undoubtedly take quite a lot of testing to ensure it really is rock-solid, and in the meanwhile TK4 users of the kinds I mentioned could benefit from the actual work you¡¯ve so graciously and generously done and from a newer and stable SDL engine underneath it, even without TXF available. ? I disagree with Patrik on one point: Many of us who use MSWin hosts aren¡¯t all necessarily competent enough or have enough ¡°round tuits¡± available to ¡°build our own¡± SDL Hercules from source.? Having a pre-built, stable SDL version for MSWin hosts would be a blessing in many ways. ? Just my USD$0.02 worth. ? Peter ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Juergen Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 4:28 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [H390-MVS] New tk4 release? ? Have the various issues holding up the next release of tk4 been resolved
yet? Is there any possibility of a Christmas present of a new tk4 this
year?
Hi All
sorry for the delay with releasing TK4- Update 09.
The major issue holding the release up is the current state of SDL Hyperion, which will be the engine running TK4- Update 09. Although the MVS 3.8j component of TK4- does not require modern z/Arch features, it is out of question to publish a TK4- release based on a Hyperion version that doesn't support key features required by the modern counterpart of MVS 3.8j. This simply because I know, that there are many people out there, running just that inside of TK4- instead of the MVS 3.8j it comes with. The main missing/instable feature is the transactional execution facility, as Fish described in this post:?.
I'm doing the utmost to help the Hercules developers community (which I'm part of) with straightening that implementation, But this really is a _very_ complex feature that, when done wrong, will inevitably lead to instability, miserable performance and data integrity issues when running an OS requiring that facility. So, bear with me (us), we really don't have reached a state yet in which it can be released.
Christmas present? Well, probably not: Once SDL Hyperion 4.3 is released, I'll require some 6 weeks to get TK4- out. So, clearly, this cannot be done before Christmas. Sorry again :-(
Cheers
´³¨¹°ù²µ±ð²Ô
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Re: [Marketing Mail] Re: [H390-MVS] Newbie question about REVIEW/RPF etc
Actually,
You probably would do better to actually USE it ¨C
As you spend time ¨C you learn various tricks ¨C
Reading manuals or help files ¨C will get you started, but ¨C it is the DOING with YOUR WORK that causes you to learn.
?
-J-
?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of marcoxa@...
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 4:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Marketing Mail] Re: [H390-MVS] Newbie question about REVIEW/RPF etc
?
Thanks.? Understood.
I presume that to figure out all the defaults in TSO, one has to do some... RTFM.
--
Marco Antoniotti
Somewhere over the rainbow
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Hello ´³¨¹°ù²µ±ð²Ô, Am 17.11.2020 um 22:27 schrieb Juergen <winkelmann@...>: Although the MVS 3.8j component of TK4- does not require modern z/Arch features, it is out of question to publish a TK4- release based on a Hyperion version that doesn't support key features required by the modern counterpart of MVS 3.8j. This simply because I know, that there are many people out there, running just that inside of TK4- instead of the MVS 3.8j it comes with. Sorry, but I disagree. I don¡¯t see why TK4- (in it¡¯s original meaning as Turn-Key MVS 3.8j) is supposed to be delayed for something clearly not needed by it. People wanting to run newer OS¡¯s can readily use the available online resources to get a newer Hyperion version as source to compile themselves, or readily compiled for their particular platform. Or they can ask here for advice. I really do appreciate your work and efforts, and I really do not want to offend you. But please rethink your decision. I guess many of us are (more or less patiently) waiting for a newer TK4-: Updated and/or newly added programs, better settings in the countless PDS, and whatnot within the MVS environment. Not for a newer Hyperion. I can¡¯t tell how many people are waiting for Hyperion, and how many are waiting for what I described. Maybe take a poll? ;-) Maybe a good way ?in the middle¡° would be to release TK4- 8.5, with all the newer stuff outlined above, but with an older Hyperion, or even the one being distributed currently with TK4-? What¡¯s your opinion with that? :wq! PoC
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Re: Newbie question about REVIEW/RPF etc
Thank you Rob,
I have also used RPF.? As a matter of fact, the difference between the panels in REVIEW and RPF was what puzzled me to start with.
All the best
--
Marco Antoniotti
Somewhere over the rainbow
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Re: Newbie question about REVIEW/RPF etc
Thank you Greg for the explanation.
Things do make more sense now.
--
Marco Antoniotti
Somewhere over the rainbow
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Re: Newbie question about REVIEW/RPF etc
Thanks.? Understood.
I presume that to figure out all the defaults in TSO, one has to do some... RTFM.
--
Marco Antoniotti
Somewhere over the rainbow
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Re: Newbie question about REVIEW/RPF etc
Hi Jeremy
Ok. Point taken :)? I should not complain too much about IBM, given that it payed my wife's salary for more than ten years :)
What I meant is that somehow, it looks like at a certain point IBM "froze" some organizational practices into its products.
--
Marco Antoniotti
Somewhere over the rainbow
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Have the various issues holding up the next release of tk4 been resolved
yet? Is there any possibility of a Christmas present of a new tk4 this
year?
Hi All sorry for the delay with releasing TK4- Update 09. The major issue holding the release up is the current state of SDL Hyperion, which will be the engine running TK4- Update 09. Although the MVS 3.8j component of TK4- does not require modern z/Arch features, it is out of question to publish a TK4- release based on a Hyperion version that doesn't support key features required by the modern counterpart of MVS 3.8j. This simply because I know, that there are many people out there, running just that inside of TK4- instead of the MVS 3.8j it comes with. The main missing/instable feature is the transactional execution facility, as Fish described in this post:?. I'm doing the utmost to help the Hercules developers community (which I'm part of) with straightening that implementation, But this really is a _very_ complex feature that, when done wrong, will inevitably lead to instability, miserable performance and data integrity issues when running an OS requiring that facility. So, bear with me (us), we really don't have reached a state yet in which it can be released. Christmas present? Well, probably not: Once SDL Hyperion 4.3 is released, I'll require some 6 weeks to get TK4- out. So, clearly, this cannot be done before Christmas. Sorry again :-( Cheers ´³¨¹°ù²µ±ð²Ô
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Re: Newbie question about REVIEW/RPF etc
On 11/16/20 5:43 AM, Vince Coen wrote: IBM created the format for using the system based on their design BUT they were one of the first in creating a commercial computer system from scratch starting with the 1401 and for science based the 7090 series (i.e., 7094 as it had a built in arithmetic control unit)).
This kind of thinking was a bit like the first micros which did not have one within the CPU logic chip but as a separate optional chip.. On Micros, CP/M (and hence MS-DOS) got drive letters descending from VM. ¡°Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.¡± Attributed to author and cleric Charles Caleb Colton. -ahd- -- Drew Derbyshire In the beginning was the word, and the word was content-type: text/plain
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Re: I've just realised how 'stone age' CLIST is with MVS 3.8 :-)
On 11/17/20 5:15 AM, Rupert Reynolds wrote: I tried to write a CLIST that processes all DSNs for an HLQ.
No &SYSINDEX(needle,haystack)
No SYSCALL for an internal PROC
I need to install Rexx, or port my compiler :-)
Stone knives and bear skins. Over on VM/370, the original EXEC is based on the script processor for CTSS, RUNCOM.? That's wonderful historical trivia, not so wonderful when you're trying to get work done! -ahd- p.s. There's a reason I hang out on the LCM+L VM/SP system (mostly for XEDIT and REXX). -- Drew Derbyshire "Cool! Crossbow! Check out these babies. Goodbye stakes, hello flying fatality." -- "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"
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Jo?o Reginato
Jeff Bassett
Marco Antoniotti