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Does d6.0 have any definitions for TCP/IP Services
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When I load d6.0, it starts a Telnet server task and the IPL info shows it attempting to activate telnet connections, but says that none are available.
Is that because TABLES doesn't have any defined, or that the HIM support is not present in the current version of Hercules? Just wondering if any TCP/IP services would work under d6.0 with the version of TABLES installed in that system under newer Hercules once the HIM support is installed. Finally, has there been any change about the licensing of IBM software like *PASCALVS, *FTNVS and *ASMH?? I read somewhere that IBM let a bunch of stuff fall out of copyright, but not sure if it affects availability of these |
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You're right, D6 seems to contain some version of the HIM code. This is a surprise to me, I had thought all this time that it didn't appear in MTS until later. The ultimate reference for questions like this is the driver file which is guaranteed to be correct since it was used to write the tapes and disk pack. It contains entries for the HIM code. I don't know how well it works in that version, but there is at least some chance that D6 will support TCP connections in Hercules when the HIM code is finished. The copyright question is complicated. It's also not the only question that is relevant, either. There may be other legal restrictions that apply to these programs. Do you have any reference for the idea that IBM let these go into the public domain? Mike On 22 Mar 2024, at 11:25, John Palmer wrote:
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-----Original Message-----Not a chance. The only mainframe code IBM has "released to the public" was APL but its not public domain, it’s a very restrictive licence. Modified versions are not allowed so people jump through hoops to provide code to patch it. Dave G4UGM |
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-----Original Message-----I should have said there is a common misconception that VM/370 and pre MVS/SP operating systems are Public Domain because their copyrights have expired. This isn't true, these products never were copyright, they always were public domain. If the copyright on the first Mickey Mouse film has just expired IBM software is going to remain copyright until long after I am pushing up daisies. DaveDave |
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On 3/27/24 03:24, Dave Wade wrote:
Dave is correct.? And I apologize in advance if none of this is helpful or of interest. If this is TMI for you, stop reading here without missing out on anything.? (I know, why send the email?? I just felt compelled to do so.)-----Original Message-----I should have said there is a common misconception that VM/370 and pre MVS/SP operating systems are Public Domain because their copyrights have expired. Here is some information I have become aware over time. Copyright is not universal! Different jurisdictions have different rules. For example, software copyright did not exist in the U.S. until 1980. See amendments enacted on 12 December, 1980: Other jurisdictions, for example, Great Britain (I believe), software was always able to be copyrighted. IBM marked their programs as copyrighted regardless of jurisdiction to protect it where software copyright was legitimate. So, no matter what software said prior to 1980 IN THE US, the software was not covered by copyright. In effect, this acts like "public domain", but I am not really sure if they are the same. My limitations as "not a lawyer". Additionally, the magic duration for the copyright seems to be 70 years. There are some mention of even longer time frames. So, the earliest copyright in the US, 1980, plus 70 years, puts us at 2050. The picture gets more complicated when considering the IBM consent decree of 1956: This was, of course, as US constraint on IBM from use of monopolistic practices. Welcome the world of Plug Compatible's. It is my understanding that this was the motivation for IBM's creation of two classes of software products: System Products (like OS's) and Program Products (other software). And, note, within the U.S until 1980, none of them were protected by copyright. (This is not to say that a given organization's contract with IBM would not impose protections to those products without US copyright protection used by the customer. An entirely separate topic.) TODAY, IBM is no longer under the consent decree: It ended 2 July, 2001, just in time for the z systems and the gradual disappearance of documentation ever since. Considering we are talking about copyright for products that reside in a system with TCPIP support, MTS, the Internet Engineering Task Force started operation in 1986: TCP/IP essentially was created by these standards. Those other, Program Products, are in all likelihood under copyright protections. Harold Grovesteen |
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Hmm, that means that perhaps *ASMH is free and clear, since I think the IBM product from which it was created predates 1980.?
As for things like Pascal (*PASCALVS) and Fortran 77 (*FTNVS), these may have been created after 1980. I'm trying to find the reference that I mentioned in my original post, but haven't been able to find it. It mentioned that IBM let copyright expire on a "slew of old mainframe software products". This was about 4 months ago. I cannot find it anymore but will keep looking. |
开云体育John, There appears to be some debate, in that explicit regulations for software copyright appeared in 1980, but some lawyers say 1976 is the relevant date. Dave ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John Palmer
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2024 3:23 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [H390-MTS] Does d6.0 have any definitions for TCP/IP Services ? Hmm, that means that perhaps *ASMH is free and clear, since I think the IBM product from which it was created predates 1980.? |
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Dave W is correct, despite the Weeping Angel in his garden, I once asked an IBMer (now retired!) about releasing the rest of the VM/370 content to the community since the base is out in the open. Suffice to say he was hostile to it. Yesterday I raised the point to a different group of IBMers regarding releasing the entire VM/370 kits to a single individual who's responsible for managing it, that individual would be responsible for everything. Next they would convince or confuse IBM Legal to create a sort-of Hobbyist License to manage it, and the MVS code along with it, (Mind I'm still not a full supporter of MVS.) The big problem is that they are aware of the sudden dearth of systems managers for current IBM zVM systems because the schools are not really interested in it. I really do not know what they will do next concerning the whole idea next. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@... "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 4:24?AM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:
-----Original Message-----I should have said there is a common misconception that VM/370 and pre MVS/SP operating systems are Public Domain because their copyrights have expired. |
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On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 08:00 PM, Gregg Levine wrote:
Hello!You wonder why they are that way - they could make a few bucks on selling hobbyist licenses. Who would really want to pay money for the old mainframe software unless they were "software archeologists"? Anyways, hope the HIM code will be out soon.? I assume there are still difficulties getting it working with the new way that Hercules 4.x does TCP/IP. |
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John PalmerI believe that it is all about brand image and perception. Anything that has the ability to impair their brand image is forbidden it might affect share value in a bad way. In that environment no one is going to stick their neck out. Dave |
开云体育On 4/12/24 22:33, John Palmer wrote: On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 08:00 PM, Gregg Levine wrote: I suspect this lack is why there is the effort to support Linux
KVM on current processors.? That eliminates the need for VM for
those interested in virtualizing Linux.? While I doubt is is as
efficient as VM would be, it does address the lack of systems
managers.? KVM is a known quantity in the Linux environment. Does nothing for instances of other OS's on VM.? But that probably has different business drivers with more legacy customers. I have also heard that there is a huge need for those understanding mainframe network administration, Comm Server (as it is called today) and friends.? Separate topic though. Harold Grovesteen |