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Re: Fw: Re: [H390-MTS] Any trick to getting *COBOLVS compiler working?
On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 11:03 AM, Lucien Hoydic wrote:
Just trying to understand what *FAKEOS does. To quote the MTS help facility: "*FAKEOS is the OS/360 environment simulation program. Its purpose is to allow object modules containing OS/360 SVCs, control blocks, and references to OS/360 I/O access methods to execute under MTS."
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Cheers,
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Rene FERLAND, Montreal
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Fw: Re: [H390-MTS] Any trick to getting *COBOLVS compiler working?
Just trying to understand what *FAKEOS does. Does *COBOLU require some sort of emulator? It seems to be issuing illegal SVC's when run without *FAKEOS.
------- Forwarded Message ------- From: Ren¨¦ Ferland via groups.io <ferland.rene@...> Date: On Sunday, May 4th, 2025 at 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [H390-MTS] Any trick to getting *COBOLVS compiler working? To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
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Re: Any trick to getting *COBOLVS compiler working?
On Sun, May 4, 2025 at 03:42 PM, John Palmer wrote:
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You need to run the program in the FAKEOS environment:
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?# run *cobolu scards=hello.cbl sprint=*print*
?# Execution begins ? 19:11:40 ? ?*PRINT* assigned receipt number 600001 ?# *PRINT* 600001 released, 4 pages, route=CNTR. ?# Execution terminated ? 19:11:40 ?T=0.182 ?# run *fakeos par=e=-load+*coblib ?# Execution begins ? 19:12:07 ? ? ?FAKEOS begins at 19:12:07 on May 04,25 ? ?HELLO OPERATOR! ? ? ? ?FAKEOS termination at 19:12:07 on May 04,25 ? ? ?Times -- Problem: ?0.003 sec.; Supervisor: ?0.003 sec. ? ?Core high-water mark: ? ? ? 0 bytes. ? ? ?Return code = ? ?0 ?# Execution terminated ? 19:12:07 ?T=0.013 ?#? ?
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Cheers,
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Rene FERLAND, Montreal
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Re: Fw: Re: [H390-MTS] Any trick to getting *COBOLVS compiler working?
I think the issue with *CBELL is that is requires *ASMH since it generates assembler source that it needs to hand to *ASMH, which we don't have.
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I'm waiting for d1996 so I can see if some of the stuff that doesn't work starts to work there.
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In terms of missing libraries, some may be on the distribution tapes, but you have to go on a deep dive to 1) find them and 2) install them properly.
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Lots of fun for hobbyists... |
Fw: Re: [H390-MTS] Any trick to getting *COBOLVS compiler working?
Just tried that and got the same thing.
------- Forwarded Message ------- From: John Palmer <jpalmer@...> Date: On Sunday, May 4th, 2025 at 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [H390-MTS] Any trick to getting *COBOLVS compiler working? To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
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Re: Any trick to getting *COBOLVS compiler working?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýOn 04/05/2025 22:51, Lucien Hoydic via
groups.io wrote:
COBOLVS is licenced code, so I assume its been removed. I think *COBOLU is the only one which works.
Again the BELL "C" compiler was only licenced for universities, so again I assume its been removed Dave |
Any trick to getting *COBOLVS compiler working?
When I try to run *COBOLVS, the system responds to "ETC:VSS" does not exist. Is there some trick to getting this working? Also *CBELL? is also failing. *CBELL responds with: Preprocessor/Compiler messages: ? ? ? Initial load failed code=0 ? ? ? ? ? ? Error Return ? 16:37:51 ?T=0.091 ?RC=8Any help would be appreciated.
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Re: MTS under VM/ESA
On 7 Feb 2025, at 15:38, Mike Ward wrote:
Not necessarily VM/370, it could be some other virtual machine. For example the MTS virtual machine also sets the first byte of the CPU ID to FF. If MTS is going to close its printers when a job is done, it will need a reliable way to determine if the VM it is running on supports that feature. We would also need to know how to actually do that. Presumably some diagnose instruction, but I have no idea which one. Mike |
Re: MTS under VM/ESA
Tony Harminc wrote:
Are you sure you're not thinking of virtual memory handshaking?No. I was talking about VM print spool handshaking. The guest (in this case MTS), when run under VM, being able to close its VM printer to cause its printouts to appear as separate VM spool files that the VM user could then do what they wish with. (i.e. print to VM's real printer, purge it, transfer it to their VM user's reader so they could read it in to their 'A' disk and look at it, etc). That was the original topic of this thread after all, yes? This was implemented long ago by end users for everything fromThat's a completely different type of VM handshaking. AFAIK we weren't talking about that. We were talking about only the VM print spool handshaking. Yes? This has nothing to do with closing SPOOL files and the like,I agree the two topics are completely different from one another, but AFAIK closing spool files and the like WAS what we were talking about, yes? Unless I missed something and the topic changed to something else midstream? <me: confused by your reply> -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... |
Re: MTS under VM/ESA
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 at 00:48, Fish Fish via <david.b.trout=[email protected]> wrote: Ren¨¦ Ferland wrote: No - the VM we have is of roughly the same vintage as the OS/VS and DOS OSs. ? > If I am not mistaken, George Shedlock added handshaking to Are you sure you're not thinking of virtual memory handshaking? This was implemented long ago by end users for everything from MVT to VS1 to DOS/VS, and only later by IBM. This is about avoiding double paging, and having VM notify the guest when a storage reference reqires VM to bring in a page from disk, so that the guest can dispatch another task instead of the entire multi-tasking guest being forced to wait. This has nothing to do with closing SPOOL files and the like, which is pretty trivial to implement. Tony H. |
Re: MTS under VM/ESA
Ren¨¦ Ferland wrote:
Fish wrote:Really? Wow. Maybe the ones we have were before VM's time?AFAIK all IBM operating systems do thisExcept for MUSIC/SP, none of the vintage systems we have If I am not mistaken, George Shedlock added handshaking toREALLY?! Again, WOW. I specifically recall the option being there when I was working with DOS/VS(E) back in the day. I guess back then it was something new that IBM had just recently added? I mean, I can understand earlier versions not having it (not even IBM operating systems are psychic after all, being able to predict the future), but I would have thought that virtually all of their later versions would have had it. and Bob Polmanter did so for MVS 3.8J. To my knowledge,Quite right. It's not possible to have *every* VM guest use the real printer at the same time. :) Cheers,Ah yes! I forgot about AF. My bad. The version of DOS/VSE we had was a not-yet-released still-under-development pre-AF version of DOS/VSE. (Our president was a former IBM'er and managed to get a copy of DOS/VSE before AF was officially released.) I guess that's why we had it. My bad. But I hope my point was made: once the feature became available, it *was* eventually incorporated into virtually all subsequent releases/versions of IBM's most popular operating systems. Perhaps not ALL of them, but most of them I suspect. And given how easy it was to do too, I can't see why ALL of the older vintage IBM operating systems that are run on Hercules today wouldn't have it. It's such a very simple tiny change. Anyway, don't mind me. Sorry to bother you all. Just passing through. I'll go away now and leave you guys alone. :) -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... |
Re: MTS under VM/ESA
On Fri, Feb 7, 2025 at 11:06 AM, Fish Fish wrote:
AFAIK all IBM operating systems do this Except for MUSIC/SP, none of the vintage systems we have implement handshaking. If I am not mistaken, George Shedlock added handshaking to DOS/VS R34, and Bob Polmanter did so for MVS 3.8J. To my knowledge, there is no handshaking in DOS/360, MVT, OS/VS1, and MTS. A work around for these systems (when run under VM) is to use dedicated printers (and punches), something easy to do when VM runs under Hercules, maybe not that much on a real system. :-)
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Cheers,
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Rene FERLAND, Montreal
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P.S. -- From the manual "Introduction to DOS/VS Release 34" we learn, on page 124, that handshaking was provided by a licensed product called "Advanced Functions", which explains why it is not in the operating system we get after a sysgen from the tapes we have. |
Re: MTS under VM/ESA
Adding in:
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QUERY CPUID = aabbbbbbccccdddd Where: aabbbbbbccccdddd is the 16-digit processor identification associated with the virtual machine. aa is the version code; these two digits are forced to X'FF' to identify that the virtual machine is running under VM/370. bbbbbb is the processor identification number; this field contains six hexadecimal digits. This is the only part of the CPUID that can be modified by means of the SET CPUID command or set by the VM/370 directory's OPTION contrel statement. cccc is the model number; this field contains a leftmost digit of 0 followed by three digits of the wodel number (0-9;. This field defaults to the model number of the real machine. dddd is the machine check extended logout; this field is forced to X'OOOO' since CP does not reflect machine checks back to the virtual machine. -----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mike Ward Sent: Friday, February 7, 2025 2:23 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [H390-MTS] MTS under VM/ESA If I remember correctly you can use the STIDP store processor ID instruction and the info you get back (I think it's high values at the end X'FF' means it's running under VM. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Fish Fish via groups.io Sent: Friday, February 7, 2025 1:06 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [H390-MTS] MTS under VM/ESA Mike Alexander wrote: Ren¨¦ Ferland wrote:Most operating systems are largely, but not completely, unaware that they are running under a virtual machine such as VM, and rightly so. BUT... in a few specific places they, IMHO, do need to be aware of it. Closing their spooled printers between jobs is one such place. AFAIK all IBM operating systems do this, and IMHO so should MTS too, if/when it's run under VM.Will it implement handshaking? That is, will MTS automatically closeNo. It has no special support for VM. It treats VM like a funny sort -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... |
Re: MTS under VM/ESA
If I remember correctly you can use the STIDP store processor ID instruction and the info you get back (I think it's high values at the end X'FF' means it's running under VM.
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-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Fish Fish via groups.io Sent: Friday, February 7, 2025 1:06 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [H390-MTS] MTS under VM/ESA Mike Alexander wrote: Ren¨¦ Ferland wrote:Most operating systems are largely, but not completely, unaware that they are running under a virtual machine such as VM, and rightly so. BUT... in a few specific places they, IMHO, do need to be aware of it. Closing their spooled printers between jobs is one such place. AFAIK all IBM operating systems do this, and IMHO so should MTS too, if/when it's run under VM.Will it implement handshaking? That is, will MTS automatically closeNo. It has no special support for VM. It treats VM like a funny sort -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... |
Re: MTS under VM/ESA
Mike Alexander wrote:
Ren¨¦ Ferland wrote:Most operating systems are largely, but not completely, unaware that they are running under a virtual machine such as VM, and rightly so. BUT... in a few specific places they, IMHO, do need to be aware of it. Closing their spooled printers between jobs is one such place. AFAIK all IBM operating systems do this, and IMHO so should MTS too, if/when it's run under VM.Will it implement handshaking? That is, will MTS automaticallyNo. It has no special support for VM. It treats VM like a funny -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... |
Re: MTS under VM/ESA
On 7 Feb 2025, at 0:22, Ren¨¦ Ferland via groups.io wrote:
No. It has no special support for VM. It treats VM like a funny sort of real machine. Mike |
Re: MTS under VM/ESA
On Thu, Feb 6, 2025 at 09:13 PM, Mike Alexander wrote:
It will be aware that it is running under VM and may change its behavior in a few ways, mostly dealing with error recovery. Will it implement handshaking? That is, will MTS automatically close the spooled printer files so it will be printed by the real printer of VM?
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Cheers,
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Rene FERLAND, Montreal |
Re: MTS under VM/ESA
This should work fine. MTS sometimes ran in production under VM back in the day although I don't think it ever did so at UM. It will be aware that it is running under VM and may change its behavior in a few ways, mostly dealing with error recovery. However, this may not be too useful since it won't have any support for TCP/IP. Mike On 6 Feb 2025, at 8:40, Jay Maynard via groups.io wrote:
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MTS under VM/ESA
I have a Multiprise 3000 system and, now, lots of spare disk space. It struck me a few moments ago that I can now run MTS on it. The system currently runs VM/ESA 2.4, z/OS 1.5, VSE/ESA 2.4, and MVS/XA 2.2.3, all snappily enough for a small number of users. Will MTS use VM for anything beyond a simple hypervisor? MUSIC/SP does, since it needs the VM IUCV to talk to the VM TCP/IP stack, but I don't recall what considerations there are for MTS. Jay Maynard |