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Hi, Rene and Piotr,

From what I recall, from the last century, it was probably the 1980s the last time I actually worked with DOS/VSE at all "for real"... and it was a long time ago.

The way DOS/360 and DOS/VS and DOS/VSE worked, you used // DLBL and // EXTENT cards to define data sets (files) on DASD.? The DLBL was just a way to assign a "label" to the file, e.g. to create a VTOC entry.? It has an optional "date" parameter, where you can specify an expiration date or number of days until the dataset "expires" ... if you do not specify it, it defaults to 7 days.

Anyway, the way I recall it worked is, when you want to "erase" or "delete" a file, you just create a new file over top of it, using the same or overlapping extents. Then, the DOS system checks the VTOC for those extents and if there is an entry, it checks the expiration date. If it has already expired, no problem, and not operator intervention is required.

But, if the entry has not yet expired, the system operator gets a message, the very popular "UNEXPIRED DATASET" ... blah, blah blah ... to which the operator must reply to allow the current job to overwrite those extents.? If the operator allows it, then DOS deletes the old VTOC entry, before creating a new one, based on the new // DLBL card in the JCL.

At least, that's how I seem to remember it worked.

So, you did not really have to use any fancy special utility for "normal" operations and normal jobs.

Hope that helps,

Mark S. Waterbury

Piotr Kolasinski wrote:

I know that my questions may be stupid but ..

There are no stupid questions if they are asked. It is only when you don't ask your question that it becomes stupid. ;-)

2. If I define DLBL and EXTENTs in JCL, but phase executing
in JOB STEP does not touch (open, write) the file, will any
extent(s) be allocated and an entry created in the VTOC?

No. If the file is never OPENED, it will never be created.

If it is OPENED however, then the VTOC entries *will* be created with however many EXTENTS you defined in your JCL. If you never write data, then the file will simply remain empty.

3. If I have 2 extents defined, and my program writes data
only for one extent (i.e. only writes a small amount of data,
i.e. only enough to need the first extent), will the second
extent be allocated?

Yes. When a file is created, it is created with however many extents are in your JCL. DOS/VS does not automatically create new extents for you or automatically delete unused extents for you either. You need to MANUALLY maintain all of that yourself in your JCL. DOS is very different than MVS. It does not have any automatic space management logic. YOU, the user, must manage your dasd space manually yourself.

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...

On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 01:56 PM, Piotr Kolasiński wrote:

>> I never heard about this tool.

Me neither, before I asked the same question as you in this group. :-)


>> In real that is not even space management ,but only operation to remove VTOC entries :-)

I can't say for sure, but I would not be surprised if DISP=DELETE on MVS just delete the entries in the catalog and VTOC, not the data set itself on disk.

Cheers,

Rene FERLAND, Montreal

Thanks Rene!

I never heard about this tool . It's really strange that for manage space on dasd volume we have to use "diagnostic" tool (as it is defined in last z/VSE documentation). In real that is not even space management ,but only operation to remove VTOC entries :-)

On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 12:44 PM, Piotr Kolasiński wrote:

1. How to remove (delete) BSAM dataset from DASD? In MVS I just use DISP=DELETE and IEFBR14, but how to remove sequenced dataset, previously allocated with DLBL and EXTENTs in JCL?

Hello everybody

I know that my questions may be stupid but ..

1. How to remove (delete) BSAM dataset from DASD? In MVS I just use DISP=DELETE and IEFBR14, but how to remove sequenced dataset, previously allocated with DLBL and EXTENTs in JCL?
2. If I define DLBL and EXTENTs in JCL, but phase exuting in HOB STEP not touch (open, write) the file - will? any extend will be allocated and enty in VTOC created?
3. If I have 2 extents defined, and program write data only for one extend (small record) will second extent will be allocated?

I have strange observation and could not find the answers in available documentation

Thanks
Piotr?

P.S
Sorry for my unfinished previous message, I've incidentally press the enter.

?

Hi,?

I know this thread is somewhat old, but I had exactly the same experience yesterday and managed to recover from it.
I checked both the original POWER input tape as well as the newly created blank tape as both were empty except for two tapemarks on each tape. This was in fact my second attempt to run this job.

I downloaded the POWER input tape again and re-created the blank tape and re-ran the job. On this second (now third) attempt it ran successfully.
My conclusion is; there is nothing wrong with neither the POWER tape nor the DOS/360 utilities. You just have to be very careful when re-running jobs.

Regards,

Steen

The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.

• /hello_99bottles_pi.zip

By: Doug Wegscheid <dwegscheid@...>

Description:
"Hello world" and "99 bottles of beer on the wall" in assembler, Cobol, FORTRAN, and PL/I, as well as a PL/I program to calculate digits of pi. All tested on DOS/VS, probably will work on DOS/360. A place for the neophyte to start. Some of these are directly from prior postings in this list (thank you, René!)

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 09:36 AM, Doug Wegscheid wrote:

Prof. Ferland, would you be willing to post your complete job(s)?

Here it is:

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 12:22 PM, René Ferland wrote:

was indeed able to print Hello World with one IOAREA and IJDFAZIZ and it just puzzled me that I could not do it with two IOAREAs and a WORKA.

Prof. Ferland, would you be willing to post your complete job(s)? I have hello world working for FORTRAN, PLI, and COBOL, but not assembler yet...

Marcel -
Happy new year to you as well!

I hope to deliver - in the near future - a DOS/VSE/Hyperion/VM370 package!

I am most interested in your efforts and look forward to your delivery. I too, come from that era.

Best regards,
Jim

1=T....

Well my last "real" DOS/VSE IPL was 1990..... (As a VM/VSE systems programmer) ...
The devil was in indeed in the detail..... .. And my memory very big (so details are easily lost!)

I was running Hyperion 4+ with VM370CE with DOSR34.. Only ... that delivered no success...
So I skipped VM370CE .. and .. SUC6...?

To speak with Spock... There must be a logical explanation......

And

I have to thinker with the VM370CE version to include the real console definitions etc etc...

Thx for the support!

I hope to deliver - in the near future -? a DOS/VSE/Hyperion/VM370 package!

But for now...... Happy New Year for all!

Regards,?
Marcel

On Wed, Dec 27, 2023 at 08:45 AM, Marcel Faber wrote:

So 1=T....?

Well, not really... $$A$SUPT is a modified version of $$A$SUP1 made by Michel for all I know. I think $$A$SUP1 still exists on Michel system, but it is not its proper supervisor.

Cheers,

Rene FERLAND, Montreal

On Wed, Dec 27, 2023 at 07:29 AM, Doug Wegscheid wrote:

The VM I have installed is either the 1.2 or 1.3B3 six pack. New enough, or do I need to grab VM/CE?

VM Sixpack 1.2 is fine. If you run DOS/VS native under Hercules, I see no problem using Michel Beaulieu system; use his disks and supervisor $$A$SUPT at IPL instead of $$A$SUP1, and you should be okay. :-)

Cheers,

Rene FERLAND, Montreal

On Wed, Dec 27, 2023 at 10:14 AM, René Ferland wrote:

It's RPG I (not RPG II) which, from what I heard, is less interesting. I have the stuff to install it on Shedlock 5-pack. I will put a ZIP in the Files section.

Thank you!

I've been resisting running this under VM/370, may have to change that.

The VM I have installed is either the 1.2 or 1.3B3 six pack. New enough, or do I need to grab VM/CE?

On Wed, Dec 27, 2023 at 07:17 AM, Doug Wegscheid wrote:

Looking at GC33-5403-1 DOS/VS Power/VS Installation and Operations (Sept 74), there are probably a PSTART for the reader at 02C in the autostart deck on the Beaulieu system. How does a novice change the AUTOSTART deck?

The AUTOSTART deck install job is on minidisk 191 of the DOSVS virtual machine, file POWER SYSIN. So to update it, I suggest you punch it to your host, update it on the host and then submit it to DOS/VS via the card reader of VM/370. I am not sure if running the job will scratch and replace the existing one.

Cheers,

Rene FERLAND, Montreal

Looking at Professor Ferland's supervisor build from the Moshix M92 video, I see that there are additional unit record devices defined.

I have a sockdev reader defined in my hercules config at x'02c', running the $$a$sup1 supervisor in the Shedlock 5 pack. Submitting a job to that reader does not seem to do anything, until I did a PSTART RDR,02C.

If I IPL the Beaulieu system (using the $$a$supt supervisor), I can submit jobs to the reader at x'02c' just fine without manually issuing a PSTART.

Looking at GC33-5403-1 DOS/VS Power/VS Installation and Operations (Sept 74), there are probably a PSTART for the reader at 02C in the autostart deck on the Beaulieu system. How does a novice change the AUTOSTART deck?

On Wed, Dec 27, 2023 at 07:03 AM, Doug Wegscheid wrote:

I thought I heard that RPG could be installed, as well as higher level compilers for the other languages.

It's RPG I (not RPG II) which, from what I heard, is less interesting. I have the stuff to install it on Shedlock 5-pack. I will put a ZIP in the Files section.

As for other languages, I heard Paul Edwards ported GCC on DOS/VS but I never tried to install it.

Cheers,

Rene FERLAND, Montreal