开云体育

This has happened a couple of times lately. Someone in the group ‘forwards’ a post on our list to another member of the group, with their own private comment. The recipient ‘replies’, assuming they are replying exclusively to the sender, only to find that their reply has gone to the whole group. They did not consider the option of using the ‘Reply to Sender’ link, as it appeared to have come from just one person. Somehow the forwarder’s email address had acquired the group’s ‘groups.io’ address.

?

How is this possible, and more importantly how can it be avoided? Sorry if this has already been covered – I’ve searched the Forum but probably with the wrong keywords.

?

I’ve also noticed that my email system now predicts the addresses of list members when I start typing their name on the address line, giving me two options – one being their email address, and the other being them with a groups.io tag. Is this part of the same issue?

?

Thanks

Barry

P.S. As soon as this happened, I deleted the post in question from the group site. Of course this won’t delete it from members’ inboxes if they are already open, but will it stop the post from appearing in the inbox of members whose mail wasn’t opened prior to me deleting it?

?

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 12:36 PM, BarryS wrote:

will it stop the post from appearing in the inbox of members whose mail wasn’t opened prior to me deleting it?

Not if they're set to receive individual messages as it will already have been sent to them.?

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 12:36 PM, BarryS wrote:

This has happened a couple of times lately. Someone in the group ‘forwards’ a post on our list to another member of the group, with their own private comment. The recipient ‘replies’, assuming they are replying exclusively to the sender, only to find that their reply has gone to the whole group.

Barry -- I suspect the second person (the one who?received?the forwarded message) didn't realize that the forward was private...after all, it contained all the group footer links, and did not have "Private:" in the subject line.?

So if he clicked on "reply to group" (instead of using the reply function of his email client) this would happen.?

They did not consider the option of using the ‘Reply to Sender’ link, as it appeared to have come from just one person.

That wouldn't have worked, either. If he clicked on "Reply to Sender," it would have gone to the person who posted the original message, not the person who forwarded it with a comment..

You asked a similar question back in January (ref:??/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/69470848#27387) and it ended up that the message had been cross-posted to another (non-groups.io) group. If I were you,?I'd seriously consider shutting down one of these groups. As long as you continue to manage two groups with members in common all discussing the same topics, confusion can be expected to reign.
?
Regards,
Bruce

---

Check out the groups.io Help Center?and?groups.io Owners Manual

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 01:24 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:

So if he clicked on "reply to group" (instead of using the reply function of his email client) this would happen.

It could be that he simply hit his mail program's "reply to all" button (not any of the links provided by groups.io).? Either out of habit, or thinking that it was a private conversation and wanting to include anyone else in the "private" loop.

The underlying problem is that messages from groups.io are sent with headers which make MUAs (mail readers) "help" by including the group-post address in their built-in "reply to all" function. ? This happens EVEN IF the group is configured to only offer "Reply to Sender" and "No Other Options", so there is no "reply to group" link provided by groups.io in the message.

There's an open bug in beta.groups.io about this.? Mark tried removing some headers which seemed likely to be causing this, but that didn't work.

Barry,

Someone in the group ‘forwards’ a post on our list to another member
of the group, with their own private comment. The recipient ‘replies’,
assuming they are replying exclusively to the sender, only to find
that their reply has gone to the whole group.

Taken at face value, that is impossible.

The forwarded message would have carried the forwarding member's address in its From field, and the recipient's address in its To field. The group's address would not be present in the headers at all. The same is true if the "forwarding" member actually clicked Reply in their email interface, and then replaced the group's address in the To field with the recipient's address.

If the forwarding member had made the mistake of including the group's posting address in the To or CC fields in the forwarded message you would be making a different complaint, about that person posting a message obviously intended to be private.

So the only explanation I can think of is that the receiving member clicked the Reply to Group link in the footer - but that seems like too obvious a mistake to have actually been the cause.

Somehow the forwarder’s email address had acquired the group’s
‘groups.io’ address.

I don't know what you mean by "had acquired".

An email can only carry a single address in the From field, and unless the forwarding member deliberately "spoofed" the group's posting address it would never be included as the From address. Most email services would in fact prevent something like that from happening (they generally disallow sending "From" any address but your own, unless you go to special effort to authenticate using an alternate From address).

I’ve also noticed that my email system now predicts the addresses of
list members when I start typing their name on the address line,
giving me two options – one being their email address, and the other
being them with a groups.io tag.

I don't know what you mean by "a groups.io tag".

If you mean that the offered address is of the form user=example.com @ groups.io (without the spaces) then that's a member whose address needed to be modified for DMARC.
/helpcenter/faq/1/group-member-faq/q-why-are-some-people-s-email

Is this part of the same issue?

No.

Even if one of the parties accidentally posted to an address modified in that form the message would not post to the group - note that the group's address is not included, only groups.io. Instead Groups.io would reject (bounce) the message as invalid.

I think Bruce may be on to something. Yahoo Groups's address modification in response to DMARC does put the Yahoo Group's posting address in the From field. And contaminates the group members' address books with multiple named entries all having the group's posting address instead of the member's address.


But I don't see how that could cause anything to be posted to the Groups.io group, unless there's also some group-to-group forwarding going on.

Shal


--
Help: /helpcenter
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

Jim,

It could be that he simply hit his mail program's "reply to all"
button (not any of the links provided by groups.io).

Nope.

The forwarding member might make that mistake and reply to the group, but the recipient wouldn't have the group's posting address in any field. All of that would have been stripped out by the forwarding member's email interface, leaving the forwarded message with only his own address in the From field.

However, this did spark an idea.

The email application Eudora had a "Redirect" function. It was a little bit like Forward, in that you provide a new destination address, but the redirected message kept (nearly?) all of the other header fields from the original message. Including IIRC a spoof of the original From address. It is possible that the Forwarding member is using a function like that, and then that the recipient clicked "Reply to All". A double fault, but it could have produced the effect of posting the reply to the group.

I know someone that still uses Eudora, perhaps I can arrange to test this idea.

There's an open bug in beta.groups.io about this.

It isn't actually about "this" case (Barry's). That topic has to do with members replying to group postings; Barry's includes the extra step of having the message forwarded to another member.

Shal


--
Help: /helpcenter
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

From: Shal Farley <shals2nd@...>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 08:18:09 CEST

The email application Eudora had a "Redirect" function. It was a
little bit like Forward, in that you provide a new destination
address, but the redirected message kept (nearly?) all of the other
header fields from the original message.

Is that the feature that some people call "bounce" ?

Its point seems to be that the person receiving it can click reply without it going to the redirector


groetjes/?is, Ronaldo

Thanks to you all for giving this problem such careful thought. I wonder if Shal's double fault theory might explain it - that is, a redirect rather than forward, followed by a Reply All rather than a Reply. I don't know what email application my forwarder uses, but if Shal is really able and willing to test the theory with his Eudora-using contact, it might shed some light on this. My "offending" replier definitely didn't click on the groups.io Reply to Sender link, but it's possible they clicked on their email program's Reply All button (though I can't imagine why).

Just to clarify (Bruce) - although the question I asked back in January probably looks similar, the circumstances were quite different. I'm probably not very good at describing these things. And also just to clarify: I don't "manage two groups with members in common all discussing the same topics". One group is more than enough. The "other" group I was referring to in January was not mine, and the overlap of members probably only amounts to 3-4.?

BarryS