开云体育

  1. GroupManagersForum
  2. Topics

Bouncing members on Yahoo - uunsure what happens on transfer to groups.io #transfer

Robert
 

My Yahoo group hardly ever gets used. Of my 211 listed members 68 are bouncing. They joined between 2003 and 2011. Because it is a health related group, I suspect (fear) many if not all of these are perhaps no longer with us. Also most have Yahoo email addresses against their membership and the last bouncing message says something to the effect "this person no longer has a Yahoo email account". Others (non Yahoo) say "unreachable" whilst some say "(This message cannot be viewed because it was sent from another group)" which seems strange.

Anyway. If I transfer my list to Groups.io I understand bouncing members get removed in the process. Or if I were first to remove them myself, could they, if still with us, whilst the group is still on Yahoo, get to read the messages from the Group page? I feel slightly nervous about assuming bouncing members are no longer with us, even though I do suspect it, when in fact they might still be.

Also Yahoo used to provide code to insert a joining link and graphic into a webpage. Does Groups.io do this too?

Robert
 

开云体育

Really good questions, Robert. I often wonder about bouncing members. I used to remove them after trying unsuccessfully to unbounded them especially if they had signed up long long ago. Then I think I understood they might actually still be receiving email at a different linked address so I stopped removing bouncing members. Not sure if that is a correct assumption.

"This message cannot be viewed because it was sent from another group" can be explained. I think it just refers to the last email sent by the yahoo member who may have sent it from a different group in which case you are obviously not allowed to read it if you are not a member as well. It gives you an idea of when the member was last active in yahoo groups generally.


Louise



Sent from my iPad

On 9 Dec 2016, at 16:30, Robert <group@...> wrote:

My Yahoo group hardly ever gets used. Of my 211 listed members 68 are bouncing. They joined between 2003 and 2011. Because it is a health related group, I suspect (fear) many if not all of these are perhaps no longer with us. Also most have Yahoo email addresses against their membership and the last bouncing message says something to the effect "this person no longer has a Yahoo email account". Others (non Yahoo) say "unreachable" whilst some say "(This message cannot be viewed because it was sent from another group)" which seems strange.

Anyway. If I transfer my list to I understand bouncing members get removed in the process. Or if I were first to remove them myself, could they, if still with us, whilst the group is still on Yahoo, get to read the messages from the Group page? I feel slightly nervous about assuming bouncing members are no longer with us, even though I do suspect it, when in fact they might still be.

Also Yahoo used to provide code to insert a joining link and graphic into a webpage. Does do this too?

Robert
 

开云体育

From: Robert
?
> My Yahoo group hardly ever gets used. Of my 211 listed members 68 are bouncing.
>They joined between 2003 and 2011. Because it is a health related group, I suspect
> (fear) many if not all of these are perhaps no longer with us. Also most have Yahoo
> email addresses against their membership and the last bouncing message says
> something to the effect "this person no longer has a Yahoo email account".
> Others (non Yahoo) say "unreachable" whilst some say "(This message cannot
> be viewed because it was sent from another group)" which seems strange.
?
That last message indicates that you cannot see the specific 'bounce' message because it was in response to a message in another group.
?
When Yahoo receives a "bounce" message back from an email server it is counted against the Yahoo account of the individual user.? The reason stated for the "bounce" is categorized as either a Hard Bounce (generally considered a permanent error, such as "No Such Account") or a Soft Bounce (considered temporary, usually "Mailbox Full").?? Once a Yahoo account has a Hard Bounce or several Soft Bounces, Yahoo places that account in a "bouncing" status.? The bouncing status is applied to ALL groups where that account was a member.??
?
When you check the status of a "bouncing" member you can see the date of the last bounce message and the category.? If the bounce originated for your group, you can also see the actual bounce message returned by the member's mail server.? But if that last bounce message was for a message from another group you cannot see the actual bounce message because it could include information you are not entitled to see (the name of the other group where the person was a member).
?
?
?
?
[email protected]
 

开云体育

Hi all

?

I joined this group a week or so ago, as I am thinking of transferring from Yahoo too. Like Robert I am anxious about losing members. Though we are supposed to have 1600 members I suspect people actually receiving our emails is much lower. I keep hearing of instances where people are registered as members, but they don’t receive the emails and they are not in their junk folder on Yahoo. The members end up having to reregister with another email. ??

?

Does anybody have any ideas about how I could use the move from yahoo to groups.io to give people the option of opting back in, so I don’t lose them for ever? There doesn’t seem to be anyway of recognizing who is bouncing.

?

Best Julia

?

Julia Powell

Strategic Communications Lead

International Treatment Preparedness Coalition - Global Team

Based: Brighton, UK

?

Skype: juliapowell.uk

Phone: +44 (0) 1273 559 669

Mobile: +44 (0) 7817 585 193

jpowell@...

?

?

?

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: 09 December 2016 16:31
To: [email protected]
Subject: [GMF] Bouncing members on Yahoo - uunsure what happens on transfer to groups.io #transfer

?

My Yahoo group hardly ever gets used. Of my 211 listed members 68 are bouncing. They joined between 2003 and 2011. Because it is a health related group, I suspect (fear) many if not all of these are perhaps no longer with us. Also most have Yahoo email addresses against their membership and the last bouncing message says something to the effect "this person no longer has a Yahoo email account". Others (non Yahoo) say "unreachable" whilst some say "(This message cannot be viewed because it was sent from another group)" which seems strange.

Anyway. If I transfer my list to Groups.io I understand bouncing members get removed in the process. Or if I were first to remove them myself, could they, if still with us, whilst the group is still on Yahoo, get to read the messages from the Group page? I feel slightly nervous about assuming bouncing members are no longer with us, even though I do suspect it, when in fact they might still be.

Also Yahoo used to provide code to insert a joining link and graphic into a webpage. Does Groups.io do this too?

Robert
 

Louise,

Then I think I understood they might actually still be receiving
email at a different linked address so I stopped removing bouncing
members. Not sure if that is a correct assumption.
I think to receive email at a different address that other address would have to be in your manage members list. So in that sense it would be safe to remove the bouncing address.

On the other hand, the behavior of Yahoo Groups with respect to on-line (web) viewing of group content when your email address is in bouncing status has varied over the years. Or, at least the descriptions and stories have. I think I've heard it said at various times that a) you can't access the group's pages while your subscribed address has bouncing status; b) you get a warning banner if you access the group's pages while your subscribed address is bouncing; and c) you are blissfully unaware that your subscribed address is bouncing.

I think I've experienced (b) in the distant past, but the memory is a bit fuzzy; might have been (a).

Some of these differences may be accounted for by incomplete observation or description of the circumstances. For example, a user with two or more subscribed email addresses may not be paying attention to which is in effect while browsing the group's pages. But some of them may relate to actual changes in Yahoo's behavior.

It is a little difficult to determine the truth by experiment, as you need to be able to create a subscription with a test address that is valid (you must verify it at some point while subscribitng), and then cause the address to go into bouncing status.

To make matters more confusing, my understanding is that the current status of Yahoo Groups' bouncing mechanism is: defunct - it reportedly has ceased putting addresses in bouncing status even when the address is in fact rejecting messages.

"This message cannot be viewed because it was sent from another
group" can be explained. I think it just refers to the last email
sent by the yahoo member ...
Close. Actually your group member was sent an email message from another group, which bounced (was rejected by the member's email service).

Shal
 

开云体育

Recognizing members who are "bouncing" on Yahoo!Groups is as simple as opening the members list and going to the Bouncing tab.?? Members that Yahoo recognizes as bouncing appear in the list under the Bouncing tab.
?
The more complex problem is members who are NOT bouncing _AND_ NOT receiving emails.? This condition can occur when a member is using an email address handled by an ISP that does not send the bounce message the way that Yahoo expects it or simply do not send a bounce message at all.?? So it is entirely possible that your group is sending out messages to some of your members and they are not receiving those messages.
?
?

I joined this group a week or so ago, as I am thinking of transferring from Yahoo too. Like Robert I am anxious about losing members. Though we are supposed to have 1600 members I suspect people actually receiving our emails is much lower. I keep hearing of instances where people are registered as members, but they don’t receive the emails and they are not in their junk folder on Yahoo. The members end up having to reregister with another email.??

 

Julia,

Like Robert I am anxious about losing members. Though we are supposed
to have 1600 members I suspect people actually receiving our emails
is much lower.
As Xaun Loc said, those that Yahoo Groups knows cannot receive the emails are listed on the Bouncing tab of your group's Manage Members list.

The devil of course is in that detail "knows". Yahoo doesn't find out if all the receiving service puts the email into a Spam folder and the user fails to notice them. Yahoo also doesn't know if the receiving service drops the email on the floor without notice ("blackhole").

Worse, it has been reported that the Bounce tracking mechanism has been broken and not been repaired for the last couple years. So Yahoo doesn't know at all for those who've lost contact more recently.

The members end up having to reregister with another email.
That's often the only resort when the user's email service can't or won't reliably deliver messages from the group. Most private email services (including company, school or ISP-supported email) seem to do ok, as does gmail. Many of the other top free webmail services (ironically including Yahoo Mail) seem to have recurring trouble with email lists such as Yahoo Groups.

Does anybody have any ideas about how I could use the move from yahoo
to groups.io to give people the option of opting back in, so I don’t
lose them for ever?
I'm preparing to move a couple of groups over also, and what I've done is use PG Offline to get a complete copy of each group's content onto my computer (that includes members, messages, files, photos, etc.). To be safe I copied each download (to a different computer) as a record of "the group that was".


The free trial of PG Offline is sufficient to archive your group, but I recommend the purchase to help support this very valuable tool.

The key is that one of the things PG Offline will give you is a complete copy of your manage members list - including bouncing members. That's important for you because your group is over the export limit of 1000 members imposed by the Yahoo Groups export feature.

After completing the Easy Group Transfer you can export the membership list from PG Offline and the one from your new Groups.io group, pull both exports into Excel and compare them. That will let you find the members that didn't make the transfer, and you can take whatever action you think is appropriate to inform/invite them to the new group.

In a group that size you probably don't have alternate contact information for very many members. There may not be much you can do for the ones whose email address no longer functions.

Shal
 

Robert,

Also most have Yahoo email addresses against their membership and the
last bouncing message says something to the effect "this person no
longer has a Yahoo email account".
These you may as well remove. Or not bother, I can't see that it makes much difference in either case.

When both the email address and the Yahoo Profile name the same Yahoo account, and that account is no more, then there's no hope that the member could come back and reclaim their membership. Even if the person came back, they'd have a fresh identity as far as Yahoo is concerned and would have to re-join the group.

For other cases, where a member's subscription lists a non-Yahoo email address, that person can reclaim their full membership using either their Yahoo Account or their email address - whichever they can still use.

Also Yahoo used to provide code to insert a joining link and graphic
into a webpage.
Ah, the old Promote page.


Does Groups.io do this too?
Yup. Look for "Promote" in the left-hand column, under the "Admin" drop-down.

Shal
Julia Powell
 

Thank you so much Shal. This is so helpful.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Very best Julia

Julia Powell
Strategic Communications Lead
International Treatment Preparedness Coalition - Global Team
Based: Brighton, UK

Skype: juliapowell.uk
Phone: +44 (0) 1273 559 669
Mobile: +44 (0) 7817 585 193
www.itpcglobal.org
jpowell@...

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Shal Farley
Sent: 11 December 2016 05:43
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [GMF] Bouncing members on Yahoo - uunsure what happens on transfer to groups.io #transfer

Julia,

> Like Robert I am anxious about losing members. Though we are supposed > to have 1600 members I suspect people actually receiving our emails > is much lower.

As Xaun Loc said, those that Yahoo Groups knows cannot receive the emails are listed on the Bouncing tab of your group's Manage Members list.

The devil of course is in that detail "knows". Yahoo doesn't find out if all the receiving service puts the email into a Spam folder and the user fails to notice them. Yahoo also doesn't know if the receiving service drops the email on the floor without notice ("blackhole").

Worse, it has been reported that the Bounce tracking mechanism has been broken and not been repaired for the last couple years. So Yahoo doesn't know at all for those who've lost contact more recently.

> The members end up having to reregister with another email.

That's often the only resort when the user's email service can't or won't reliably deliver messages from the group. Most private email services (including company, school or ISP-supported email) seem to do ok, as does gmail. Many of the other top free webmail services (ironically including Yahoo Mail) seem to have recurring trouble with email lists such as Yahoo Groups.

> Does anybody have any ideas about how I could use the move from yahoo > to groups.io to give people the option of opting back in, so I don’t > lose them for ever?

I'm preparing to move a couple of groups over also, and what I've done is use PG Offline to get a complete copy of each group's content onto my computer (that includes members, messages, files, photos, etc.). To be safe I copied each download (to a different computer) as a record of "the group that was".


The free trial of PG Offline is sufficient to archive your group, but I recommend the purchase to help support this very valuable tool.

The key is that one of the things PG Offline will give you is a complete copy of your manage members list - including bouncing members. That's important for you because your group is over the export limit of 1000 members imposed by the Yahoo Groups export feature.

After completing the Easy Group Transfer you can export the membership list from PG Offline and the one from your new Groups.io group, pull both exports into Excel and compare them. That will let you find the members that didn't make the transfer, and you can take whatever action you think is appropriate to inform/invite them to the new group.

In a group that size you probably don't have alternate contact information for very many members. There may not be much you can do for the ones whose email address no longer functions.

Shal
Robert
 

Thanks Shal,
I'm certainly tempted to get shot of the bouncers.
Thanks for the pointer to the Promote link. Really a lot more simple requiring just an email address. If only Yahoo..........etc.etc...
Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Shal Farley
Sent: 12 December 2016 05:32
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [GMF] Bouncing members on Yahoo - uunsure what happens on transfer to groups.io #transfer

Robert,

> Also most have Yahoo email addresses against their membership and the > last bouncing message says something to the effect "this person no > longer has a Yahoo email account".

These you may as well remove. Or not bother, I can't see that it makes much difference in either case.

When both the email address and the Yahoo Profile name the same Yahoo account, and that account is no more, then there's no hope that the member could come back and reclaim their membership. Even if the person came back, they'd have a fresh identity as far as Yahoo is concerned and would have to re-join the group.

For other cases, where a member's subscription lists a non-Yahoo email address, that person can reclaim their full membership using either their Yahoo Account or their email address - whichever they can still use.

> Also Yahoo used to provide code to insert a joining link and graphic > into a webpage.

Ah, the old Promote page.


> Does Groups.io do this too?

Yup. Look for "Promote" in the left-hand column, under the "Admin"
drop-down.

Shal

1 - 10 of 10