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One of my group members has had problems with a “send mail as” address. He gave me the information below. I don’t totally understand it but thought someone here might.

Sharon

Sharon,
Has the member added their gmail address as an alias on their account?? This should resolve this issue.

Account -> Login setting page -> Advanced settings

Email Alias

If the email service you use for this account sends your outgoing messages from a different address than your account address, please enter your sending address here. Please note: No group email messages or notifications will be sent to this address; group emails and notices from group owners & moderators are sent only to your account address.

Toby

?

?

On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 02:17 PM, Toby Kraft wrote:

Account -> Login setting page -> Advanced settings

This is exactly the setting I needed (sorry for bumping an old thread, but it seemed to be the most recent on this topic) for the same problem, different symptoms: because I have two groups.io accounts for my group, I wasn't seeing rejections. Instead every email was being posted as if sent from my gmail account, even if I had used gmail to "send mail as" my personal domain email address.

I had hoped setting this alias for the account using my personal domain would fix the problem, but when I try to add my gmail address as an alias, I get an error message that the address is already registered, so I can't add it.

Is there any way around this restriction? There may be circumstances in which someone uses both their gmail address and one that goes through that gmail account.

I would think that I could get around this by deleting the gmail address' Groups.io account, only keeping the personal domain one, and then presumably I can set gmail as an alias. But,?I'm new to groups.io, and don't yet know if accounts can be truly deleted (releasing the email address for "clean" reuse again) and even if so, how long a system purge takes.

But my question still stands: for gmail addresses especially, where people might have valid reasons for creating a groups.io account with their gmail address (maybe pre-dating a personal domain?), and also having a different groups.io account with a different address that relies on that same gmail address for mail delivery, is this restriction necessary, and can anything be done to get around this?

Thanks for any help,
Sarah.

On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 02:17 PM, Toby Kraft wrote:

Account -> Login setting page -> Advanced settings

I can't reference the email I just wrote, because it hasn't been moderated yet, so sorry if this confuses anything in the chain. :)

I guess if the emails appear to be coming from my Gmail address, how would groups.io know which account to post from? That must be the initial tech constraint to having a gmail alias that is also its own groups.io account. So, I guess this could only work if groups.io can parse the "send as" field somehow, as a further identification. And, I'm assuming it doesn't do that now, or why would this even be an issue in the first place? It could just read from that field to determine the sender and not need to know about the alias at all.

So, thinking about it more, it would seem like I can't continue to have 2 accounts, and be able to send email from the personal domain and have it show up as the personal domain, unless groups.io starts using a different header field entirely. (It's obviously not a problem for the two separate accounts to exist, because they currently already do. It's only when sending via email that the issue arises.)

If I had to choose just one account, I'd prefer the personal domain. But there's more chance of something going wrong if I delete the gmail account, since that's the one that I at least know I can email from (and, I don't yet know if/when deleting its group.io account frees it up to use as an alias, since clearly I'd need it for the personal one to function properly). And, because of this, I've already started using the gmail account more with my group.

So I no longer think I need an answer to the question about why the restriction is in place, but as I'm thinking through my various options, I wouldn't mind suggestions for what those more experienced with the platform would do in this position.? :)? It may turn out to be that I just use the gmail account exclusively.

Thanks, and sorry that I hadn't thought this far by the time I hit send on the first message.? :)?

(For extra context, as a group owner and the tech person for my organization, I often do make myself a couple of accounts so I can test under different conditions and vary settings/permissions and view things from various users' perspectives. I don't need to participate in the group as two separate entities. And, to be fair, gmail has sometimes caused issues with our current (soon to be former) Mailman list serv, so it was easier to have two accounts so that whatever gmail decided to do, I was a member and covered.)

Sarah,

Instead every email was being posted as if sent from my gmail account,
even if I had used gmail to "send mail as" my personal domain email
address.

Oddly, that sounds like the expected result of having your personal email set as an Alias in your account with the Gmail address.

What I can't wrap my head around is that you say each of these addresses (Gmail and Personal) have their own Groups.io account associated with them. That shouldn't be possible if one is being used as an Alias of the other. But maybe you've somehow slipped through a crack in the logic.

That name "alias" has been nothing but trouble. It would better be called an "Alternate Posting Address". The exact effect of the setting is to allow you to post using a different address than your subscribed address. Those posts then appear as if posted by your subscribed address.

It exists because certain email services require it, not because it is expected to be generally useful.

Is there any way around this restriction?

Not so long as the other address also has an account. An address which has an account may be subscribed to groups, and as such it should log in and post showing its own address, not some other.

There may be circumstances in which someone uses both their gmail
address and one that goes through that gmail account.

The address(es) at which you wish to receive group messages, or which you wish to use to log into the group's web pages, should each have an account. Addresses used in the Alias field are send-only: they never receive email from groups, nor can they be used to log in.

But, I'm new to groups.io, and don't yet know if accounts can be truly
deleted (releasing the email address for "clean" reuse again) and even
if so, how long a system purge takes.

They can. There is a red "Delete My Account" button at the bottom right of the Login page in your Account. But I don't know if there's a delay time involved. I've never tested it and I don't recall it being mentioned (unlike group names, which are reserved after a group is deleted).

people might have valid reasons for creating a groups.io account with
their gmail address ..., and also having a different groups.io account
with a different address that relies on that same gmail address for
mail delivery, ...

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here, but my understanding is that if you use your Gmail account to send a message via a different email service that Gmail submits the message to that service for transmission. So for all intents and purposes the message came from that other address.

It could just read from that field to determine the sender and not
need to know about the alias at all.

Groups.io uses the inbound message's From field to determine which account the message belongs to. That address must match exactly one account, in either the subscription or Alias address field. If it matches the Alias field of an account, the message posts as if it came from the subscription address.

So, thinking about it more, it would seem like I can't continue to
have 2 accounts, and be able to send email from the personal domain
and have it show up as the personal domain,

There is absolutely no problem with having two accounts and having messages from each show up under their own subscribed address.

It's only when sending via email that the issue arises.

It is only when one address is an Alias of the other that there's any shenanigans about which address is used to post the message.

I wouldn't mind suggestions for what those more experienced with the
platform would do in this position.

I would double check and make sure that your account with the Gmail address does not have an Alias address set in it. And likewise for your account with the Personal address.

We could examine what's going on in detail through my test group, shalstest, if you like.

Shal


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On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 04:24 AM, Shal Farley wrote:

I would double check and make sure that your account with the Gmail address does not have an Alias address set in it. And likewise for your account with the Personal address.

None of my accounts in groups.io currently have alias addresses set in the advanced email settings, but your response gave me another idea to check. This might be related to my alias settings in gmail itself, because I know you can have "send as" addresses that are or aren't treated as "aliases" by gmail. (And yes, use of the term "alias" could be confusing the issue, depending on exactly what each system means by alias.)

So I'm going to play around with gmail's alias settings, and see if that makes a difference. Thanks so much for the reply, and I'll report back if I learn something that helps so others can troubleshoot the similar issues!

OK, for the benefit of anyone who encounters a similar problem in the future, here's how I fixed things:

On gmail's end, I needed to change the outgoing smtp for my personal domain's email address to one associated with the service my personal domain runs through. It didn't seem to matter whether this email address was used "as an alias" or not. Apparently on gmail's end, acting as an alias refers to how incoming mail is treated (acting as an inbox for that account), and then separately, there's an outgoing mail setting that can be set independent of being an alias or not. So, when you add an account to "send mail as" in gmail, you could have a few different configurations that all seem to "work" when you're using gmail, but interact a little differently with the outside world.

Now that my personal domain's email address has its own, non-gmail, outgoing smtp set, emails that I "Send as" that personal domain email through gmail are in fact recognized as "coming from" that domain, and therefore that particular groups.io account. I did not need to make any setting changes in groups.io for this, only in gmail. (For example, I don't have any aliases specified in any groups.io accounts.)

Thanks for your help, Shal!