On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 12:20 PM, wforacer.rm wrote:
Wow, I have not seen that controller before, I but it looks like a spin-off of the ci700 controller, and the G11 looks pretty similar to the ci700.? ?:)
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You just have not been around long enough. The Losmandy #492 Digital Drive is not a spin off or copy. They were the original Losmandy #492 non-GOTO Digital Drive controller systems and used a gear reduction stepper motor and still come "standard" on G11s and GM8s mounts since they were first released over 30 years ago.? Celestron marketed and sold Losmandy G11 mounts and controllers as the Celestron CG11 mounts.? The CG11 and G9 mounts were produced by Losmandy and were virtually identical other than the silk screened labels.??
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But Hollywood Machine / Losmandy being a small quality oriented shop could not make the mounts fast enough or cheap enough for Celestron.? So Celestron's solution was to make their own borrowing freely from the G11 mount design.? The CI700 was Celestron's first attempt to bring mount production in-house and make a cheaper and faster to produce mount.? Celestron succeeded in the worst way, they made the CI700 cheaper and faster to produce but the CI700 was also a crude, inelegant, inflexible design with problems.? So after a short run the CI700 was replaced with Celestron's next iteration of cheaper, faster to produce mounts.? To lose the bad taste the CI700 left in people's mouths the mount was reborn as the CGE mount.? The CGE mounts were a better crude, inelegant, inflexible design and fraught with electrical issues around which entire small businesses were built to resolve.? This led to another Celestron mount the ...? ?
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As you can see Scott Losmandy had it right the first time and the careful elegant core mechanical design of the G11 and GM8 mounts has not needed to be changed since it was first designed.? Some small internal details have been altered over time but every G11 and GM8 can be retrofitted and updated to the current production specs. Also development of the G11 and GM8 is ongoing and new improvements keep rolling out of the shop in Burbank.? ? ? ? ? ?
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--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astrospheric - South Pasadena?
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Re: Gemini Motor Mounting Damage?
Hi James, did you try to run PHD2 guide calibration? That should tell you if the mount is responding to guide commands, and how well.
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Regards,
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? -Paul
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On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 01:10 PM, James Richards wrote:
Hi,
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A bit of background first:? ?I have a very old, but faithful, Losmandy G11.? I upgraded to Gemini 2 about a year ago.? Last night I had been successfully autoguiding with PHD2 for a few hours.
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After midnight I executed a go-to to an object in Cassiopeia.? It was nearly overhead.? The mount head collided with the RA motor!? I have NEVER had this happen in many many years of using my G11.??
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I decided to re-align and did several go-to's to rebuild the model.? All seemed fine.? Slewing seemed fine.? I started autoguiding with PHD2 and RA guiding immediatley went off the chart.? I checked cabling - OK.? I unplugged and replugged the RA cable - OK.? I slewed the RA several times and it seemed fine.? I started PH2 again and RA guiding went off the chart.? Ugh.?
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This morning I visually checked the RA motor and housing - it looks ok.? The mounting seems fine and tight.? I have not taken the RA motor off the mount yet.? I have the feeling that since it slews ok, I won't be able to see anything wrong.? I greatly would appreciate any suggestions before pulling the motor off.?
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Thanks!
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Gemini Motor Mounting Damage?
Hi,
?
A bit of background first:? ?I have a very old, but faithful, Losmandy G11.? I upgraded to Gemini 2 about a year ago.? Last night I had been successfully autoguiding with PHD2 for a few hours.
?
After midnight I executed a go-to to an object in Cassiopeia.? It was nearly overhead.? The mount head collided with the RA motor!? I have NEVER had this happen in many many years of using my G11.??
?
I decided to re-align and did several go-to's to rebuild the model.? All seemed fine.? Slewing seemed fine.? I started autoguiding with PHD2 and RA guiding immediatley went off the chart.? I checked cabling - OK.? I unplugged and replugged the RA cable - OK.? I slewed the RA several times and it seemed fine.? I started PH2 again and RA guiding went off the chart.? Ugh.?
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This morning I visually checked the RA motor and housing - it looks ok.? The mounting seems fine and tight.? I have not taken the RA motor off the mount yet.? I have the feeling that since it slews ok, I won't be able to see anything wrong.? I greatly would appreciate any suggestions before pulling the motor off.?
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Thanks!
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Re: Looking for cable source - Try Cat8 cables
The twisting of Ethernet patch cables differs from
what Gemini needs. There could be spurious encoder ticks induced
by PWM pulses if motor wires and encoder wires are paired. Not
sure about cat8 cabling, but flat motor cables are O.K.
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦
Am 06.10.24 um 20:36 schrieb
wforacer.rm via groups.io:
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I recently fixed my 2nd Gemini1.
The flat motor cables were intermittent.
I made some cat5e cables 2.5' long and it seemed to work but I
let it run on my bench for an hour and noticed the PWM signal
(pin#5) on the RA drive IC give some really long pulses (simply
put oscope in envelope mode) and the motor jerk for a brief
moment. I had laying around a 15' long cat 6 cable and zero
issue with 9 hours of bench running.
After researching, I found cat8 cables are shielded pairs and
cost the same (~$6 for a pair of 3' cables on Aliexpress), so I
am using them w/o issue.
 
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Wow, I have not seen that controller before, I but it looks like a spin-off of the ci700 controller, and the G11 looks pretty similar to the ci700.? ?:)
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Re: Looking for cable source - Try Cat8 cables
I recently fixed my 2nd Gemini1. The flat motor cables were intermittent. I made some cat5e cables 2.5' long and it seemed to work but I let it run on my bench for an hour and noticed the PWM signal (pin#5) on the RA drive IC give some really long pulses (simply put oscope in envelope mode) and the motor jerk for a brief moment. I had laying around a 15' long cat 6 cable and zero issue with 9 hours of bench running. After researching, I found cat8 cables are shielded pairs and cost the same (~$6 for a pair of 3' cables on Aliexpress), so I am using them w/o issue.  
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Re: GeminiTelescope Solar System catalog seems to be empty
On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 11:35 AM, David C. Partridge wrote:
I¡¯m using a G1 right now¡ Does that catalog get pulled from a G1?
Doesn't work with G1. Support for Solar System objects through the serial protocol was added in G2.
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Re: GeminiTelescope Solar System catalog seems to be empty
I¡¯m using a G1 right now¡ Does that catalog get pulled from a G1? ? D. ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Paul Kanevsky
Sent: 03 October 2024 13:45
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Gemini_users_io] GeminiTelescope Solar System catalog seems to be empty? On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 07:17 AM, David C. Partridge wrote: If I open the Object Catalog manager and select the Solar System catalog, no objects are shown.? This is true in 1.1.25 and 1.1.28 Should be easy to fix I expect.
David, the same problem with Gemini not being connected. The driver loads all the catalogs only once, the first time you go into the manage catalogs page. If you're not connected to Gemini, it will not load the Solar System catalog, as Gemini-2 L6 is required to use it. If you connect to Gemini L6 later in that same session, the catalogs are already loaded and will not be reloaded, so Solar System will still be missing. The solution is to start Gemini.NET, connect to Gemini L6, and only then go to Manage Catalogs screen. Solar System objects should work then.
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Re: GeminiTelescope Solar System catalog seems to be empty
On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 07:17 AM, David C. Partridge wrote:
If I open the Object Catalog manager and select the Solar System catalog, no objects are shown.? This is true in 1.1.25 and 1.1.28
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Should be easy to fix I expect.
David, the same problem with Gemini not being connected. The driver loads all the catalogs only once, the first time you go into the manage catalogs page. If you're not connected to Gemini, it will not load the Solar System catalog, as Gemini-2 L6 is required to use it. If you connect to Gemini L6 later in that same session, the catalogs are already loaded and will not be reloaded, so Solar System will still be missing.
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The solution is to start Gemini.NET, connect to Gemini L6, and only then go to Manage Catalogs screen. Solar System objects should work then.
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Regards,
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? ? -Paul
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GeminiTelescope Solar System catalog seems to be empty
If I open the Object Catalog manager and select the Solar System catalog, no objects are shown.? This is true in 1.1.25 and 1.1.28
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Should be easy to fix I expect.
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David
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Re: GeminiTelescope can't change location fields
This has always been the case (don't ask me why!) -- but to change site information, you must first enable 'Set Gemini Site on Connect' option. You can turn it off when you're done changing:
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Regards,
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? -Paul
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GeminiTelescope can't change location fields
I just installed 1.1.28 and went into Setup to change the location (I have move to a new house).
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The fields for latitude and longitude would let me position the cursor in them but I couldn't change the values?
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What am I missing (no the telescope's not connected).
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** UPDATE Never mind - when I connected the 'scope I was able to adjust them
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David
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Re: Help needed re: connecting Gemini 2 to PC
Ron, you may need a cross-over?cable to use an ethernet connection directly from your PC.
-Will
On Fri, Sep 27, 2024 at 10:16?PM stargazer66207 via <strgzr622= [email protected]> wrote: Hello group,
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Recently my trusty old Gemini I shot craps after 19 yrs of faithful service. I had to upgrade to the new Gemini 2 and Hand Controller.
As you know, the old Gemini I connected to a PC via a Serial/R12 connector cable which plugged in to one of the RJ 12 sockets on the control box. This does not work on the new Gemini 2.
I decided I want to connect via an ethernet cable (Cat 5) directly from the Gemini 2 to the ethernet port on my PC.? I have now installed this.
My question is: Now that I have the connection, what are my next steps to make it operational so that I can use programs like The Sky 6 and N.I.N.A. to run my mount?? I am a Newbie to Gemini 2, so any assistance you experienced Gemini 2 users can give me will be greatly appreciated! Thanks.
Ron Abbott
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Re: Problem with my Gemini 1
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Re: Problem with my Gemini 1
Thank you guys, I will try the reset and battery removal and see how it goes. If nothing than off to Mr. Herman
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Re: Problem with my Gemini 1
John
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since you swapped motors over it¡¯s a fault with Gemini Encoder IC DEC PLD. ?It needs to go to a for replacement.?
Sorry, it¡¯s easily repairable but this IC does have embedded firmware and needs programming?
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cheers
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brendan
--
Brendan
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Re: Problem with my Gemini 1
Hi John, if you've tried resetting Gemini to all defaults, taking out and leaving out and then replacing the 3v battery, the next step would be to contact one of the repairers that is closest to you:
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Regards,
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? -Paul
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On Sun, Sep 29, 2024 at 05:04 PM, John wrote:
Hello group,
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When I boot up, it shows DEC motor stalled, but the DEC axis very slowly rotates but fast enough to easily see without pressing any buttons.
Pressing any buttons at this point does nothing.
I swapped cables same thing. If I plug RA into DEC port, the RA axis rotates slowly.
Anything I can try?
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Thanks,
John
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Hello group,
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When I boot up, it shows DEC motor stalled, but the DEC axis very slowly rotates but fast enough to easily see without pressing any buttons.
Pressing any buttons at this point does nothing.
I swapped cables same thing. If I plug RA into DEC port, the RA axis rotates slowly.
Anything I can try?
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Thanks,
John
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Re: Need advice on strange guiding problem
Thanks, Bill. This one I can read :)?
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PE is kind of high, around 20 arcseconds peak-to-peak. Most Losmandy mounts I¡¯ve seen have PE of around 10 arcsecs p2p, often less.?
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What concerns me are the large, fast jumps of many arcseconds at a time. These are hard to guide out, as the error grows quickly and autoguider often can¡¯t keep up. You could try increasing guide speed to 0.8x to see if that might help (recalibrate the guider, of course, once you do it). It may also be worth swapping the worms between DEC and RA to see how much better the PE might be with the other worm. I had a G11 where my PE was around 10 arcsecs p2p, but once I swapped worms, it went down to 4 arcsecs. Amazing improvement and a fairly quick and free fix :)
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Regards,
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? -Paul
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On Sun, Sep 29, 2024 at 12:39 PM, Bill Tschumy wrote:
I resent the image to your email, bypassing Google. ?Hopefully that will be readable.
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As to the slipping.
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1. Yes, I have checked the coupler
2. Clutches are tightish. ?I can make them move with come moderate pressure on them, but I can see how guiding changes could do it. ?I have previously tried this with clutches really tight and really loose. ?No real change.
3. As I mentioned in my original message, I have trid swapping the motors and well as the gearboxes (and as well the worms). ?No real difference.
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It is a mystery.
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On Sep 29, 2024, at 10:19?AM, Paul Kanevsky <yh@...> wrote:
It's nearly impossible to read the PE chart due to small scale. What I was interested in seeing was any sudden jumps, and especially those that don't repeat with the worm cycle (which requires more than one worm cycle to be recorded). PE looks OK from a very high level, but I really can't see the details in the image to be sure.
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As to what else can be slipping:
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1. Oldham coupler, as you already checked
2. Clutches
3. Encoder ring inside the servo (you can try swapping DEC and RA servos to see if the problem goes over to DEC)
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Additionally, poor connection to the encoder(s), noisy or intermittent cable connection, or encoder damage / dirt on the encoder optical ring can all cause issues that look like something is slipping. I had one servo that was misbehaving. Turns out a small spider crawled through the external connector and put up some spiderwebs inside the motor that caused all kinds of strange problems :) Dirt or damage in the gearboxes can also cause erratic behavior.
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For most of these, try swapping the components between RA and DEC to see what makes the problem switch to the other axis.
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Regards,
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? -Paul
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Re: Need advice on strange guiding problem
I resent the image to your email, bypassing Google. ?Hopefully that will be readable.
As to the slipping.
1. Yes, I have checked the coupler 2. Clutches are tightish. ?I can make them move with come moderate pressure on them, but I can see how guiding changes could do it. ?I have previously tried this with clutches really tight and really loose. ?No real change. 3. As I mentioned in my original message, I have trid swapping the motors and well as the gearboxes (and as well the worms). ?No real difference.
It is a mystery.
On Sep 29, 2024, at 10:19?AM, Paul Kanevsky <yh@...> wrote:
It's nearly impossible to read the PE chart due to small scale. What I was interested in seeing was any sudden jumps, and especially those that don't repeat with the worm cycle (which requires more than one worm cycle to be recorded). PE looks OK from a very high level, but I really can't see the details in the image to be sure.
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As to what else can be slipping:
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1. Oldham coupler, as you already checked
2. Clutches
3. Encoder ring inside the servo (you can try swapping DEC and RA servos to see if the problem goes over to DEC)
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Additionally, poor connection to the encoder(s), noisy or intermittent cable connection, or encoder damage / dirt on the encoder optical ring can all cause issues that look like something is slipping. I had one servo that was misbehaving. Turns out a small spider crawled through the external connector and put up some spiderwebs inside the motor that caused all kinds of strange problems :) Dirt or damage in the gearboxes can also cause erratic behavior.
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For most of these, try swapping the components between RA and DEC to see what makes the problem switch to the other axis.
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Regards,
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? -Paul
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On Sun, Sep 29, 2024 at 12:02 PM, Bill Tschumy wrote:
Paul (and others),
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I¡¯ve attached a screenshot showing the unguided results over about 18 minutes. ?You can sort of see the periodic error which I think is 478 seconds (about 8 minutes) for the GM8. ?I¡¯m not sure what this tells us, but hopefully it will be useful.
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I also noticed a curiosity last night. ?Ekos has a ¡°Plate solve and center target¡± function. ?It will automatically repeat this until the error is less than some amount (30 arcsec in my case). ?Lately it seems to be having more trouble zeroing in on the target. ?Here is a screenshot of what it did. ?Rows 8 through 18 are its trying to zero in. ?Note that the declination zeros in nicely. ?However, the RA seems to oscillate by overshooting the center each time (assuming I¡¯m reading this correctly). ?It oscillates between a positive error and a negative error.
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It seem kind of surprising it would be overshooting in this case.
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Back to the guided results I posted initially, it sort of feels like something is slipping. ?It tries to make a correction, but doesn¡¯t get there (or possibly goes too far). ?The most likely thing I know of that could slip is the connection of the motor shaft and the worm shaft to the Oldham coupler. ?However, I¡¯ve verified several times that the set screws are tight. ?I don¡¯t see how that connection could be slipping. ? Is there any place else in the system where slippage could occur?
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Bill
On Sep 28, 2024, at 3:41?PM, Bill Tschumy <bill@...> wrote:
Paul,
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I should be able to get an unguided log tonight.
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Yes, Gemini 1. ?The autoguider is connected to the main camera, which in turn is connected to a Raspberry Pi 4. ?The RPi4 also has a USB cable coming out that goes into the RS232 port on the Gemini 1 (via a USB to serial converter). ?Pretty sure I¡¯ve tried the autoguider plugged directly into the RPi4, but I can try that again to see if if there are any differences.
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--?
Bill Tschumy
Otherwise -- Longmont, CO
www.otherwise.com
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--? Bill Tschumy Otherwise -- Longmont, CO www.otherwise.com
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Chip Louie
Paul Kanevsky
wforacer.rm
David C. Partridge
John
Bill Tschumy