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This is for Paul kanevsky.? I have two losmandy mounts,? a 2005 g11 with older servo motors and a g11g SLW,? both with Gemini II mini with L06 and servo motor quadrature upgrades. They both "talk" via a linksys wireless router and LAN cable to on-board mini computers (eagle and mele quieter 4c) to my laptop via remote access (win11). I recently had both fired up and communicating via two different laptops.? Gemini telescope would only work if I used the UDP setting (unverified data packet). If I tried using the HTTP setting for both mini computers (one 192.668.0.220, the other... 221), Gemini telescope couldn't resolve which command went to which mount, i.e., both mounts got the same command.? When I switched to udp,? problem resolved.?
?
Now to the weird part.? So I've left my Gemini telescope on udp on startup.? Last night,? I was getting target unreachable on the handset in the 2005 mount (single mount).? I went out and was able to move the mount to the target (m32 in this case,? with the scope pointing east via the handset). While trying to figure out the problem,? the mount went to limit. So I commanded the mount to CWD. The Gemini telescope slewed to CWD and telescope app showed limit and wouldn't allow me to enter track via my laptop.? I reset both the Gemini II and telescope app but it wouldn't let me go from CWD to track.? I finally set Gemini telescope to HTTP with the handset address (....220) and no more issues!!!? This morning I thought I should have looked at the ARP table but didn't.? Weird behavior.? Your thoughts??
?
Chuck
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Chuck, if I understand correctly, you have both Gemini connected via ethernet cable to their own mini computers. Did you change the MAC address of at least one of the Gemini units? With both units having the same default MAC address packet or datagram routing would be unpredictable. UDP is the preferred method of communicating with Gemini. HTTP is there for complicated networks where UDP routing may not be possible. UDP for Gemini is a reliable protocol with error detection and recovery built-in, so it's not the unverified, raw version of a UDP broadcast.
?
Regards,
?
? -Paul
?
On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 05:45 PM, crocco1250 wrote:
This is for Paul kanevsky.? I have two losmandy mounts,? a 2005 g11 with older servo motors and a g11g SLW,? both with Gemini II mini with L06 and servo motor quadrature upgrades. They both "talk" via a linksys wireless router and LAN cable to on-board mini computers (eagle and mele quieter 4c) to my laptop via remote access (win11). I recently had both fired up and communicating via two different laptops.? Gemini telescope would only work if I used the UDP setting (unverified data packet). If I tried using the HTTP setting for both mini computers (one 192.668.0.220, the other... 221), Gemini telescope couldn't resolve which command went to which mount, i.e., both mounts got the same command.? When I switched to udp,? problem resolved.?
?
Now to the weird part.? So I've left my Gemini telescope on udp on startup.? Last night,? I was getting target unreachable on the handset in the 2005 mount (single mount).? I went out and was able to move the mount to the target (m32 in this case,? with the scope pointing east via the handset). While trying to figure out the problem,? the mount went to limit. So I commanded the mount to CWD. The Gemini telescope slewed to CWD and telescope app showed limit and wouldn't allow me to enter track via my laptop.? I reset both the Gemini II and telescope app but it wouldn't let me go from CWD to track.? I finally set Gemini telescope to HTTP with the handset address (....220) and no more issues!!!? This morning I thought I should have looked at the ARP table but didn't.? Weird behavior.? Your thoughts??
?
Chuck
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Paul
I have no idea how I would change the mac address. I assume this is set by the gemini mini LAN physical layer. I could check the router the next time I have both fired up. As I said, Gemini telescope worked OK with both mounts online and Gemini telescope app in udp mode. But the weird behavior was with the single mount with udp. The other mount was not connected. That's what's I find puzzling. The single mount started working with HTTP not udp.
Chuck
On Thursday, October 31, 2024 at 03:05:22 PM PDT, Paul Kanevsky <yh@...> wrote:
Chuck, if I understand correctly, you have both Gemini connected via ethernet cable to their own mini computers. Did you change the MAC address of at least one of the Gemini units? With both units having the same default MAC address packet or datagram routing would be unpredictable. UDP is the preferred method of communicating with Gemini. HTTP is there for complicated networks where UDP routing may not be possible. UDP for Gemini is a reliable protocol with error detection and recovery built-in, so it's not the unverified, raw version of a UDP broadcast. ? Regards, ? ? -Paul ?
On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 05:45 PM, crocco1250 wrote: This is for Paul kanevsky.? I have two losmandy mounts,? a 2005 g11 with older servo motors and a g11g SLW,? both with Gemini II mini with L06 and servo motor quadrature upgrades. They both "talk" via a linksys wireless router and LAN cable to on-board mini computers (eagle and mele quieter 4c) to my laptop via remote access (win11). I recently had both fired up and communicating via two different laptops.? Gemini telescope would only work if I used the UDP setting (unverified data packet). If I tried using the HTTP setting for both mini computers (one 192.668.0.220, the other... 221), Gemini telescope couldn't resolve which command went to which mount, i.e., both mounts got the same command.? When I switched to udp,? problem resolved.? ? Now to the weird part.? So I've left my Gemini telescope on udp on startup.? Last night,? I was getting target unreachable on the handset in the 2005 mount (single mount).? I went out and was able to move the mount to the target (m32 in this case,? with the scope pointing east via the handset). While trying to figure out the problem,? the mount went to limit. So I commanded the mount to CWD. The Gemini telescope slewed to CWD and telescope app showed limit and wouldn't allow me to enter track via my laptop.? I reset both the Gemini II and telescope app but it wouldn't let me go from CWD to track.? I finally set Gemini telescope to HTTP with the handset address (....220) and no more issues!!!? This morning I thought I should have looked at the ARP table but didn't.? Weird behavior.? Your thoughts?? ? Chuck
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Paul
The 2005 has a mele minicomputer from China with both a Wi-Fi and LAN connection. It could be they are not properly resolving the IP address with Gemini udp with a Wi-Fi and LAN address from my router. I'm not sure if this is a hardware issue (Mele) or udp problem. I'm just putting it out there I had this issue. It can be resolved via HTTP. I'm not sure why!!!
Chuck
On Thursday, October 31, 2024 at 03:15:12 PM PDT, crocco1250 via groups.io <crocco1250@...> wrote:
Paul
I have no idea how I would change the mac address. I assume this is set by the gemini mini LAN physical layer. I could check the router the next time I have both fired up. As I said, Gemini telescope worked OK with both mounts online and Gemini telescope app in udp mode. But the weird behavior was with the single mount with udp. The other mount was not connected. That's what's I find puzzling. The single mount started working with HTTP not udp.
Chuck
On Thursday, October 31, 2024 at 03:05:22 PM PDT, Paul Kanevsky <yh@...> wrote:
Chuck, if I understand correctly, you have both Gemini connected via ethernet cable to their own mini computers. Did you change the MAC address of at least one of the Gemini units? With both units having the same default MAC address packet or datagram routing would be unpredictable. UDP is the preferred method of communicating with Gemini. HTTP is there for complicated networks where UDP routing may not be possible. UDP for Gemini is a reliable protocol with error detection and recovery built-in, so it's not the unverified, raw version of a UDP broadcast. ? Regards, ? ? -Paul ?
On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 05:45 PM, crocco1250 wrote: This is for Paul kanevsky.? I have two losmandy mounts,? a 2005 g11 with older servo motors and a g11g SLW,? both with Gemini II mini with L06 and servo motor quadrature upgrades. They both "talk" via a linksys wireless router and LAN cable to on-board mini computers (eagle and mele quieter 4c) to my laptop via remote access (win11). I recently had both fired up and communicating via two different laptops.? Gemini telescope would only work if I used the UDP setting (unverified data packet). If I tried using the HTTP setting for both mini computers (one 192.668.0.220, the other... 221), Gemini telescope couldn't resolve which command went to which mount, i.e., both mounts got the same command.? When I switched to udp,? problem resolved.? ? Now to the weird part.? So I've left my Gemini telescope on udp on startup.? Last night,? I was getting target unreachable on the handset in the 2005 mount (single mount).? I went out and was able to move the mount to the target (m32 in this case,? with the scope pointing east via the handset). While trying to figure out the problem,? the mount went to limit. So I commanded the mount to CWD. The Gemini telescope slewed to CWD and telescope app showed limit and wouldn't allow me to enter track via my laptop.? I reset both the Gemini II and telescope app but it wouldn't let me go from CWD to track.? I finally set Gemini telescope to HTTP with the handset address (....220) and no more issues!!!? This morning I thought I should have looked at the ARP table but didn't.? Weird behavior.? Your thoughts?? ? Chuck
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?
The MAC address should be different for two devices on the same network. UDP relies on it to deliver datagrams. Heres how to change the MAC address:
?
?
Regards,
?
? -Paul
On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 06:35 PM, crocco1250 wrote:
Paul
The 2005 has a mele minicomputer from China with both a Wi-Fi and LAN connection. It could be they are not properly resolving the IP address with Gemini udp with a Wi-Fi and LAN address from my router. I'm not sure if this is a hardware issue (Mele) or udp problem. I'm just putting it out there I had this issue. It can be resolved via HTTP. I'm not sure why!!!
Chuck
On Thursday, October 31, 2024 at 03:15:12 PM PDT, crocco1250 via groups.io <crocco1250@...> wrote:
?
?
Paul
I have no idea how I would change the mac address. I assume this is set by the gemini mini LAN physical layer. I could check the router the next time I have both fired up. As I said, Gemini telescope worked OK with both mounts online and Gemini telescope app in udp mode. But the weird behavior was with the single mount with udp. The other mount was not connected. That's what's I find puzzling. The single mount started working with HTTP not udp.
Chuck
On Thursday, October 31, 2024 at 03:05:22 PM PDT, Paul Kanevsky <yh@...> wrote:
?
?
Chuck, if I understand correctly, you have both Gemini connected via ethernet cable to their own mini computers. Did you change the MAC address of at least one of the Gemini units? With both units having the same default MAC address packet or datagram routing would be unpredictable. UDP is the preferred method of communicating with Gemini. HTTP is there for complicated networks where UDP routing may not be possible. UDP for Gemini is a reliable protocol with error detection and recovery built-in, so it's not the unverified, raw version of a UDP broadcast.
?
Regards,
?
? -Paul
?
On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 05:45 PM, crocco1250 wrote:
This is for Paul kanevsky.? I have two losmandy mounts,? a 2005 g11 with older servo motors and a g11g SLW,? both with Gemini II mini with L06 and servo motor quadrature upgrades. They both "talk" via a linksys wireless router and LAN cable to on-board mini computers (eagle and mele quieter 4c) to my laptop via remote access (win11). I recently had both fired up and communicating via two different laptops.? Gemini telescope would only work if I used the UDP setting (unverified data packet). If I tried using the HTTP setting for both mini computers (one 192.668.0.220, the other... 221), Gemini telescope couldn't resolve which command went to which mount, i.e., both mounts got the same command.? When I switched to udp,? problem resolved.?
?
Now to the weird part.? So I've left my Gemini telescope on udp on startup.? Last night,? I was getting target unreachable on the handset in the 2005 mount (single mount).? I went out and was able to move the mount to the target (m32 in this case,? with the scope pointing east via the handset). While trying to figure out the problem,? the mount went to limit. So I commanded the mount to CWD. The Gemini telescope slewed to CWD and telescope app showed limit and wouldn't allow me to enter track via my laptop.? I reset both the Gemini II and telescope app but it wouldn't let me go from CWD to track.? I finally set Gemini telescope to HTTP with the handset address (....220) and no more issues!!!? This morning I thought I should have looked at the ARP table but didn't.? Weird behavior.? Your thoughts??
?
Chuck
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Thanks Paul. If I run into this problem again, I'll look up the mac addresses and see if that's the problem. At least I'll know where i can modify the address.
Chuck
On Thursday, October 31, 2024 at 03:50:35 PM PDT, Paul Kanevsky <yh@...> wrote:
? The MAC address should be different for two devices on the same network. UDP relies on it to deliver datagrams. Heres how to change the MAC address: ? ? Regards, ? ? -Paul
On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 06:35 PM, crocco1250 wrote: Paul
The 2005 has a mele minicomputer from China with both a Wi-Fi and LAN connection. It could be they are not properly resolving the IP address with Gemini udp with a Wi-Fi and LAN address from my router. I'm not sure if this is a hardware issue (Mele) or udp problem. I'm just putting it out there I had this issue. It can be resolved via HTTP. I'm not sure why!!!
Chuck On Thursday, October 31, 2024 at 03:15:12 PM PDT, crocco1250 via groups.io <crocco1250@...> wrote: ? ? Paul
I have no idea how I would change the mac address. I assume this is set by the gemini mini LAN physical layer. I could check the router the next time I have both fired up. As I said, Gemini telescope worked OK with both mounts online and Gemini telescope app in udp mode. But the weird behavior was with the single mount with udp. The other mount was not connected. That's what's I find puzzling. The single mount started working with HTTP not udp.
Chuck On Thursday, October 31, 2024 at 03:05:22 PM PDT, Paul Kanevsky <yh@...> wrote: ? ? Chuck, if I understand correctly, you have both Gemini connected via ethernet cable to their own mini computers. Did you change the MAC address of at least one of the Gemini units? With both units having the same default MAC address packet or datagram routing would be unpredictable. UDP is the preferred method of communicating with Gemini. HTTP is there for complicated networks where UDP routing may not be possible. UDP for Gemini is a reliable protocol with error detection and recovery built-in, so it's not the unverified, raw version of a UDP broadcast. ? Regards, ? ? -Paul ? On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 05:45 PM, crocco1250 wrote: This is for Paul kanevsky.? I have two losmandy mounts,? a 2005 g11 with older servo motors and a g11g SLW,? both with Gemini II mini with L06 and servo motor quadrature upgrades. They both "talk" via a linksys wireless router and LAN cable to on-board mini computers (eagle and mele quieter 4c) to my laptop via remote access (win11). I recently had both fired up and communicating via two different laptops.? Gemini telescope would only work if I used the UDP setting (unverified data packet). If I tried using the HTTP setting for both mini computers (one 192.668.0.220, the other... 221), Gemini telescope couldn't resolve which command went to which mount, i.e., both mounts got the same command.? When I switched to udp,? problem resolved.? ? Now to the weird part.? So I've left my Gemini telescope on udp on startup.? Last night,? I was getting target unreachable on the handset in the 2005 mount (single mount).? I went out and was able to move the mount to the target (m32 in this case,? with the scope pointing east via the handset). While trying to figure out the problem,? the mount went to limit. So I commanded the mount to CWD. The Gemini telescope slewed to CWD and telescope app showed limit and wouldn't allow me to enter track via my laptop.? I reset both the Gemini II and telescope app but it wouldn't let me go from CWD to track.? I finally set Gemini telescope to HTTP with the handset address (....220) and no more issues!!!? This morning I thought I should have looked at the ARP table but didn't.? Weird behavior.? Your thoughts?? ? Chuck
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On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 02:45 PM, crocco1250 wrote:
This is for Paul kanevsky.? I have two losmandy mounts,? a 2005 g11 with older servo motors and a g11g SLW,? both with Gemini II mini with L06 and servo motor quadrature upgrades. They both "talk" via a linksys wireless router and LAN cable to on-board mini computers (eagle and mele quieter 4c) to my laptop via remote access (win11). I recently had both fired up and communicating via two different laptops.? Gemini telescope would only work if I used the UDP setting (unverified data packet). If I tried using the HTTP setting for both mini computers (one 192.668.0.220, the other... 221), Gemini telescope couldn't resolve which command went to which mount, i.e., both mounts got the same command.? When I switched to udp,? problem resolved.?
?
Now to the weird part.? So I've left my Gemini telescope on udp on startup.? Last night,? I was getting target unreachable on the handset in the 2005 mount (single mount).? I went out and was able to move the mount to the target (m32 in this case,? with the scope pointing east via the handset). While trying to figure out the problem,? the mount went to limit. So I commanded the mount to CWD. The Gemini telescope slewed to CWD and telescope app showed limit and wouldn't allow me to enter track via my laptop.? I reset both the Gemini II and telescope app but it wouldn't let me go from CWD to track.? I finally set Gemini telescope to HTTP with the handset address (....220) and no more issues!!!? This morning I thought I should have looked at the ARP table but didn't.? Weird behavior.? Your thoughts??
?
Chuck
?
The networking term UDP stands for User Datagram Protocol.? Like many computer terms it is an arcane term made up by dudes in garages wearing pointy hats.? AFAIK UDP packets are verified using checksums but the handshake protocol does not wait for receipts from the receiving device(s).? Because of this it is a faster protocol due to the much lower network overhead but UDP can lose packets if the receiver is not ready to accept data.? IME it is very reliable in use with Gemini controllers as Gemini Ethernet is relatively slow by modern standards.? If you are experiencing dropped packets or data loss once the Gemini is talking to the computer this is not likely the fault of the use of UDP protocol but some other layer in your network.? ?
?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
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Chip
According to paul, if you have two losmandy mounts on the same network , you can get the same mac address. You have to go into the web server and manually change one of the two mac addresses. I had a kind of fuzzy idea of how a mac address is assigned and thought each mount would be assigned a unique mac address. It appears they aren't unique and hence the problem with Gemini telescope.
Chuck On Friday, November 1, 2024 at 10:27:24 AM PDT, Chip Louie <chiplouie@...> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 02:45 PM, crocco1250 wrote: This is for Paul kanevsky.? I have two losmandy mounts,? a 2005 g11 with older servo motors and a g11g SLW,? both with Gemini II mini with L06 and servo motor quadrature upgrades. They both "talk" via a linksys wireless router and LAN cable to on-board mini computers (eagle and mele quieter 4c) to my laptop via remote access (win11). I recently had both fired up and communicating via two different laptops.? Gemini telescope would only work if I used the UDP setting (unverified data packet). If I tried using the HTTP setting for both mini computers (one 192.668.0.220, the other... 221), Gemini telescope couldn't resolve which command went to which mount, i.e., both mounts got the same command.? When I switched to udp,? problem resolved.? ? Now to the weird part.? So I've left my Gemini telescope on udp on startup.? Last night,? I was getting target unreachable on the handset in the 2005 mount (single mount).? I went out and was able to move the mount to the target (m32 in this case,? with the scope pointing east via the handset). While trying to figure out the problem,? the mount went to limit. So I commanded the mount to CWD. The Gemini telescope slewed to CWD and telescope app showed limit and wouldn't allow me to enter track via my laptop.? I reset both the Gemini II and telescope app but it wouldn't let me go from CWD to track.? I finally set Gemini telescope to HTTP with the handset address (....220) and no more issues!!!? This morning I thought I should have looked at the ARP table but didn't.? Weird behavior.? Your thoughts?? ? Chuck
? The networking term UDP stands for User Datagram Protocol.? Like many computer terms it is an arcane term made up by dudes in garages wearing pointy hats.? AFAIK UDP packets are verified using checksums but the handshake protocol does not wait for receipts from the receiving device(s).? Because of this it is a faster protocol due to the much lower network overhead but UDP can lose packets if the receiver is not ready to accept data.? IME it is very reliable in use with Gemini controllers as Gemini Ethernet is relatively slow by modern standards.? If you are experiencing dropped packets or data loss once the Gemini is talking to the computer this is not likely the fault of the use of UDP protocol but some other layer in your network.? ? ? --
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
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On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 04:41 PM, crocco1250 wrote:
Chip
According to paul, if you have two losmandy mounts on the same network , you can get the same mac address. You have to go into the web server and manually change one of the two mac addresses. I had a kind of fuzzy idea of how a mac address is assigned and thought each mount would be assigned a unique mac address. It appears they aren't unique and hence the problem with Gemini telescope.
Chuck
?
Hi Chuck,
?
The Gemini 2 controllers all come from the factory with the same MAC address by default.? It's easy to change the MAC address and this should allow both to work without mistaking one Gemini 2 for the other.? Gemini.net can handle more than one Gemini 2 on the same network but AFAIK you still need different MAC addresses even using UDP protocol because both UPD and TCP protocols use IP which is dependent on their MAC address.? It's been a long time since I did networking but I think this is the way it works.?
?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
|
?
Oh, I forgot.to mention that I have had three Gemini 2 controllers on my home LAN and the all worked fine but all had different IP and MAC addresses.? I never tested operating more than 2 at once as one of the Gemini-2 was always controlled by an ASIAIR talking to a PC using the BlueStacks emulator.??
?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
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On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 12:08 PM, Chip Louie wrote:
The Gemini 2 controllers all come from the factory with the same MAC address by default.? It's easy to change the MAC address and this should allow both to work without mistaking one Gemini 2 for the other.?
That's exactly right. All Gemini ship with the same MAC address. To use them on the same network, at least one of the two must be changed manually.
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Chip
That was Pauls reply. The mac is the same for all mounts and you have to go into the web server and alter one of the two mount mac addresses. I found I could get around Gemini telescope not responding after hooking up two mounts via udp by using HTTP instead. Now I know what went wrong. My computer couldn't distinguish between two identical twins!!!
Chuck
On Wednesday, November 6, 2024 at 09:08:50 AM PST, Chip Louie <chiplouie@...> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 04:41 PM, crocco1250 wrote:
Chip
According to paul, if you have two losmandy mounts on the same network , you can get the same mac address. You have to go into the web server and manually change one of the two mac addresses. I had a kind of fuzzy idea of how a mac address is assigned and thought each mount would be assigned a unique mac address. It appears they aren't unique and hence the problem with Gemini telescope.
Chuck
? Hi Chuck, ? The Gemini 2 controllers all come from the factory with the same MAC address by default.? It's easy to change the MAC address and this should allow both to work without mistaking one Gemini 2 for the other.? Gemini.net can handle more than one Gemini 2 on the same network but AFAIK you still need different MAC addresses even using UDP protocol because both UPD and TCP protocols use IP which is dependent on their MAC address.? It's been a long time since I did networking but I think this is the way it works.? ? --
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
|
Paul Kanevsky
Chip Louie