Upgrading Gemini L6 to L6.02 or L6.12
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I have been operating my Losmandy G11 using the original Level 6 release in since about mid-2023 without any issues that I'm aware.? But after upgrading to telescope to a longer focal length, I determine that it may be beneficial to upgrade to a version that supported the latest PEC enhancements.? So, I jumped all in upgrading the firmware to Level 6.12.? I also generated a PEC curve using PEMPro Version 3.10.14.
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Since the telescope was already Polar Aligned and the PHD2 was already calibrated, I tried running Guiding Assistant but observed that the DEC axis would shift like it was not getting any guiding pulses.? I checked for cables snag but found none.? I then thought that maybe the firmware update had enabled TVC but found that is was still set to Zero on the HC and Gemini Telescope.? I was also unable to re-run the PHD2 calibration.? So I reinstalled Level 6.0 and was able to perform my Guiding Assistance and imaging for the remainder of the night.
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So I than tried to just upgrade to the Level 6.02 but had the same issue that I observed with Level 6.12, so I once again downgraded to Level 6 and was able to do guiding assistance and imaging for the remainder of the night.
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After reviewing most of the feedback about the firmware upgrades to Level 6.02 and 6.1; I was unable to determine anybody having similar issue, so I'm at a lost to the solution.? Does anybody have any ideas as to what could be causing this issue?
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Thanks,
Michael |
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Hi Michael,
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What does your main imaging and guiding hardware setup consist of?? Are you guiding with an OAG or piggyback?? There are many potential issues which ones to consider depend entirely on the gear being used.? List your full configuration and let's go from there.?
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Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware? Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA? |
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Chip,
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I'm using N.I.N.A for imaging software with PHD2 for guiding.? Here is my imaging setup
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GSO RC10 f8 @ 2000FL
ZWO Off Axis Guider with ZWO ASI174mini
ZWO ASI2600MM Pro Imaging Camera
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Let me know if you need any information.
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As stated above, the guiding and imaging was working fine with the Gemini Level 6 version of the driver.? I was guiding error of about 0.6 & 0.7 arcsec Total error using the Level 6 driver.? ?The only change to the setup was Gemini Firmware version.? However after upgrading to Level 6.02 or 6..12, I could not get it to guide because the DEC axis kept guiding to the North or South and the guide pulse were not able to keep up with the shift of the guide star until the guide star was lost.? It almost like the guide pulses need to be much larger with the new software but I don't understand why that would be.? ?The polar alignment did not change between firmware changes.? Reinstalling Level 6.0 firmware seems to be the only solution that I have been able to identify.
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Hi Michael,
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That's kind of weird.? I've been using a full house ASIAIR Plus 256GB V3 hardware system with a very recent, possibly still the latest ASIAIR firmware and app. V2.3.1 build 814.? I just yesterday updated the G11 Gemini 2 mini to L6.12 from L6.11 no problem but have not had a clear night yet to image.? It was working fine with L6.11 and HCv1.63 on the old Gemini 2? bootloader.?
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I recently swapped the Askar FRA500 - 90mm f/5.6 Petzval - out for the LX200 10" f/6.3 SCT.? I am using the same imaging train.? I might get to use it tonight in the driveway but have a time conflict that may make it impossible.? We'll see if it has any new issues and report back.??
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Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware? Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA? |
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Hi Michael,
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It's odd that PEC is not working. The L6.12 release was specifically reworked to correct a PEC weirdness and I'm sure Rene has tested it carefully.? So your gear choices likely have nothing to do with this issue.? I use the ASIAIR sans PEC so this is not something I should see.??
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But maybe there is some other weirdness going on. Did you use GFU to do your update or copy the file over using ftp and pointing the UI to point at and upload the new file?? If this is your method maybe something in here went sideways.? If you did not use GFU try it.? GFU is virtually foolproof, not that you're a fool but sometimes it helps to try something different of having issues.??
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Just trying to figure it out?
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Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware? Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA? |
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Chip,
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Thanks for the suggestions, I did use GFU to do the firmware updates for the main unit and the hand controller.? I will continue to troubleshoot this issue and if I determine the issue, I will post it here.
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FYI, I got no reason to believe that PEC is not working correctly.? The PEC run of PEMPro showed a reduction in the PEC error once the curve was uploaded to the mount.? This was measured using the main camera not the guide camera.
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It appears that PHD2 is getting different information from the Gemini firmware that is causing incorrect DEC guiding correction, so I need to figure that out what needs to happen to fix it.
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Thanks
Mike
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Did you uncheck the direction reversal settings under mount gearing page on the HC?
On Sat, Apr 19, 2025 at 09:27 PM, Michael Broyles wrote:
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Hi Mike,?
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I know there was a way to reverse the direction of travel in L5.x through the web server UI but it must not have been an option visible in the HC until L6.x.? AFAIK users have always been able to reverse direction at least in L5.x or the folks who installed the Mclennan gearboxes could not have done so.?
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Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware? Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA? |
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Mike, I think you should try to upgrade to the latest firmware and then, reset to defaults, like Chip suggested. There was nothing that I¡¯m aware of in 6.02 or later releases that should affect DEC motion, except for possibly the reversal setting.
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if you do and try calibration and it still fails, please change trace setting to maximum and generate and share the ASCOM driver log, as that could help figure out what¡¯s going on:
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On Sun, Apr 20, 2025 at 10:28 AM, Michael Broyles wrote:
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Thanks Chip and Paul,
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It looks like I'm going to get some clear weather for the next couple of nights.? I'll upgrade to Level 6.12, reset the HGM to defaults, double check revesal check boxes on hand controller, web interface, etc.? Provide logs if it still failing.? I will let you know the results.
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Thanks,
Mike |
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Chip and Paul,
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Last night I was able to upgrade to Level 6.12.? I performed the HGM reset after this upgrade.? Eventually, I was able to get the guiding to work but I had to alter the guiding calibration procedure slightly.? My normal procedure, is to press the Up Arrow on the Gemini.net application until the guide star has started to move to the North, then start the calibration.? I found that with Level 6.12 MU and 1.64 HC pressing the Up Arrow is actually sending a Guide South command to mount instead of a Guide North.? Therefore, once the Guide East has been completed by PHD2, it was taking over 30 guide pulses to remove the backlash and always resulted in a PHD2 error indicating RA/DEC axis guide rate mismatch..??
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To fix the issue, instead of pressing the Up Arrow on the Gemini.net application, I pressed the Down Arrow.? This resulted a successful PHD2 calibration.? After getting a successful PHD2 calibration, I was able to slew to a target and guide as normal.
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I have confirmed from the logs, that pressing Up Arrow send GuideSouth command and pressing Down Arrow sends GuideNorth command.? Also confirmed that Gemini is sending GuideNorth commands during PHD calibration which is as expected.
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Not sure when or why Up Arrow press resulted in a GuideSouth but that what I observed and found in the logs.? FYI, I did confirm that the RA/DEC Reverse checkbox on the HC were not checked.? Also confirmed they were not checked on the Gemini Web.? Or maybe I had some setting set that was effecting altered behavior that clearing the HGM fixed.
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I do have the log file if you still want to see it.? Just let me know if you want it uploaded.? I'll put together some notes where to look? in the logs for the above explanation.
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Also let me know if there is any other analysis you would like to have performed.
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At this point, I seem to be able to perform PHD2 calibration and guide on an imaging target, so I'm fairly happy.? Now I need to get a good PE curve to see if it still works after PEC.
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I'm sure Paul has.some ideas why this is happening but I'm fresh out of ideas.? Something is flipped or flipping, I don't know all the places it could be altered but at least we have some change though? not sure why.? This is the part that is bothering me, nothing visible changed and the results are different.??
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Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware? Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA? |
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Hi Michael,
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Glad to hear you got your guiding working again. What I find strange is that you are reporting that up arrow on the Gemini.NET virtual HC is sending guide South command -- the only way that could happen is if you had the reverse DEC option checked on the HC:
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In all other cases, the command sent by Gemini.NET is :Mn or move North.
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On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 06:51 PM, Michael Broyles wrote:
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Paul,
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That's what I was thinking.? However, I can assure you that the Reverse Dec checkbox was not checked.? In fact, I was thinking about setting the to Rev Dec so it worked as before.
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Here is was is puzzling to me.? I'm sure that there are many people that are using Level 6.02 - 6.12 without any issue.? So I'm wondering if maybe there is something we are missing.? One thing that I've seen mention as different times is the Lithium Battery Voltage.? I saw a thread that Brian Valente(/g/Gemini-II/topic/battery_replacement_gemini/86901178)? says that the battery should work fine down to 2.0 V but others in the same thread indicated that anything below 3.00V the battery should be replaced because the Gemini will become less reliable.
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My battery is currently 2.878V.? Since what I'm seeing with my mount on Level 6.02 and greater seems to be unexplained behavior of the mount.? Do you think this battery should be replaced or may be causing some of the issues that I'm encountering.? Or is this just me grasping for straws.
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Thanks,
Mike
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Hi Mike,
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Well you are at that point where if replacing a battery fixes it who cares if we're grasping at straws?? The battery backup circuitry is flakey and some people have no issues with a battery showing well under 3.0v no load.? Others, myself included have seen unreliable operation and weird Gemini 2 behavior under 2.9v.? Who knows?? If you have weird stuff happening and you replace the battery with a new one and it goes away stop asking questions and go use it before it changes it's mind.?
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Cheers/Chip
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Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware? Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA? |
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Hi Mike,
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Like Chip, I think it's worth replacing the battery, just to be sure. Different versions of Gemini over the years had different 3v battery holders and had different current draw that resulted in wildly different estimates of what voltage is fine and what isn't. With newer G2, I'd agree with Brian's assessment -- 2.8v or even 2.5v should be sufficient (test this while the battery is in circuit, not when the battery is removed). Some of the older Gemini versions could become flakey with voltages below 3v. |
Michael Broyles
Chip Louie
Paul Kanevsky