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Thanks Jonathan - great idea.
Just tried it. Results the same, no flip - even after a 5 min. retry.
Attached is the ascom log should it prove useful.
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A friend with a "new to him" G8 with the same gemini unit and software helped with testing various limit settings and was able to generate a flip with his unit with? E & W limits at 92 and WGT at 2.5. Software was told to flip 5 mins. past meridian.
When I tried the same it failed.
I'm thinking the issue involves something else.
Is it possible I have a corruption and need to reflash the gemini unit firmware with the existing version again ?
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A solution of sorts.? I reverted to a version of the capture software that doesn't rely on pier side to determine when to flip.? When the scope and target cross the median - even all the way to the limits, Gemini reports scope west pointing east and this screws up the flip as the capture software is waiting for a pier side change to make the flip. I'm not an expert in this so I may not be saying it right ( don't shoot please ).
Anyways - a solution that gets me back to imaging.
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Ah. I wonder if this page has anything explanatory.
If the software is relying on SideOfPier to change to trigger the flip, it's wrong.?
The ASCOM log should show the command if it is triggering (:Mf# is the command from memory) - is it in there at the right time?
GC
A solution of sorts.? I reverted to a version of the capture software that doesn't rely on pier side to determine when to flip.? When the scope and target cross the median - even all the way to the limits, Gemini reports scope west pointing east and this screws up the flip as the capture software is waiting for a pier side change to make the flip. I'm not an expert in this so I may not be saying it right ( don't shoot please ).
Anyways - a solution that gets me back to imaging.
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A few posts below this one, I attached an ascom log for one of my troubleshooting runs.? I looked and the Mf# is in there.? Whether done at right time or not is beyond me.
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Frank what software is this?
A solution of sorts.? I reverted to a version of the capture software that doesn't rely on pier side to determine when to flip.? When the scope and target cross the median - even all the way to the limits, Gemini reports scope west pointing east and this screws up the flip as the capture software is waiting for a pier side change to make the flip. I'm not an expert in this so I may not be saying it right ( don't shoot please ).
Anyways - a solution that gets me back to imaging.
-- Brian?
Brian Valente astro portfolio? portfolio astrobin?
--
Brian
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On Sun, Feb 19, 2023 at 08:09 PM, Frank Wielgus wrote:
A few posts below this one, I attached an ascom log for one of my troubleshooting runs.? I looked and the Mf# is in there.? Whether done at right time or not is beyond me.
That's correct. There is a meridian flip command in the log, :Mf# issued, it appears to happen at HA of 0.026183, or past the meridian. The mount reports being on West side of the pier. The software asks to go to East side. The command is sent... Gemini reports success, yet, no motion occurs and hour angle continues to increase past the meridian. 18:13:32.598 Serial received:? ? ? ? ? TID:8 [0]: :GH, +0.026183
18:13:33.314 IT:SideOfPier.Get? ? ? ? ?TID:6 [Enter] pierWest, 42.64
18:13:33.314 IT:CanSetPierSide.Get? ? ?TID:6 [Enter] True
18:13:33.314 IT:SideOfPier.Set? ? ? ? ?TID:6 [Enter] pierEast
18:13:33.315 Transmitting commands? ? ?TID:8 [2]: :Mf#
18:13:33.315 Serial Transmit? ? ? ? ? ?TID:8 [0]: :Mf#
18:13:33.317 Serial received:? ? ? ? ? TID:8 [0]: :Mf#, 0
18:13:33.344 Serial received:? ? ? ? ? TID:8 [0]: :Gv, T
18:13:34.605 Serial received:? ? ? ? ? TID:8 [0]: :GH, +0.026745
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So, given the above:
- mount does not flip even though it should
- manipulating limits does not help?
- happens via usb or ethernet
- happens even when not running an imaging application
- happen after testing a variety of cables and laptops
Does this imply anything regarding my gemini unit ?
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On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 10:43 AM, Frank Wielgus wrote:
So, given the above:
- mount does not flip even though it should
- manipulating limits does not help?
- happens via usb or ethernet
- happens even when not running an imaging application
- happen after testing a variety of cables and laptops
Does this imply anything regarding my gemini unit ?
Can¡¯t say if that¡¯s a hardware or software/settings issue, although it¡¯s hard to imagine that hardware is causing this if everything is working except for flips. Did you try resetting Gemini firmware to all default settings? ?Might be worth a try.
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Thanks for the suggestion Paul.? I tried it out today but no luck.
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Frank,
I may have missed one of your responses, but do you have the meridian flip working from the hand controller?
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So, given the above:
- mount does not flip even though it should
- manipulating limits does not help?
- happens via usb or ethernet
- happens even when not running an imaging application
- happen after testing a variety of cables and laptops
Does this imply anything regarding my gemini unit ?
--
Paul
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On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 10:29 PM, Frank Wielgus wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion Paul.? I tried it out today but no luck.
Hi Frank, so are you ever able to perform a meridian flip? If yes, how and when? As to the original subject line, was this something that was working and then just stopped? I don't see anything in your logs or settings that could prevent a flip. I assume you're starting with the mount in a proper CWD position with a Cold start?
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Cold start CWD.
When I first used the mount, I was able to meridian flip.? The capture software back then used the 3 slew method. Recently, the newer version uses the pier side method - and it always fails. Reverting back to the older version of the software, fixes things.
In this video starting at 5:49, the person indicates some mounts/software do not handle the pier side method well thus he recommends not using it.? This also indicates the issue is not confined to just me and my equipment and software.
The ccdciel software author, is working on an option to turn off pier side thus allowing the 3 slew method.? This will solve the problem as I just tested it.
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Paul,
Meridian flip does not work from the HC.
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I'm not quite sure I grasp what the "Pier Side Method" is?
It's clear from the ASCOM log that :Mf# is being sent to the mount - the mount does the rest if a flip is possible. From the handset it doesn't work.?
I'm fairly sure this is not an issue around the way that the flip is commanded by the software,? just that by doing gotos (I presume someway west of where you intend first to force the mount to flip sides) is sidestepping whatever issue is at play. If Nina didn't work at all with Gemini, we'd see far more issues being raised here.
Graeme?
Cold start CWD.
When I first used the mount, I was able to meridian flip.? The capture software back then used the 3 slew method. Recently, the newer version uses the pier side method - and it always fails. Reverting back to the older version of the software, fixes things.
In this video starting at 5:49, the person indicates some mounts/software do not handle the pier side method well thus he recommends not using it.? This also indicates the issue is not confined to just me and my equipment and software.
The ccdciel software author, is working on an option to turn off pier side thus allowing the 3 slew method.? This will solve the problem as I just tested it.
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On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 01:13 PM, Frank Wielgus wrote:
Paul,
Meridian flip does not work from the HC.
That is indeed strange! :Mf# command certainly works for others, and I have no idea why it doesn't for you. Maybe try to reflash the firmware, but this has an even smaller chance of working than anything you've tried so far... One more thought. Try resetting the safety limits to their defaults and see if a flip occurs then, somewhere between the meridian and the safety limit. You can use ASCOM driver Func->Perform Meridian Flip to do this, as this uses the :Mf# command also. First, position the mount to be just past the meridian (Hour Angle of just a bit more than 0). Obviously, don't try it if this risks a collision with the pier. Either put a smaller load on it, or you could even test with the motors removed from the mount. You'll hear and see the slew if the meridian flip is successfully executed.?
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Frank,
Back to my original post, you need to resolve the issue of not being able to perform a meridian flip with the hand controller before worrying about the software.
It must be either a time or location setting issue or the limits.
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Paul,
Meridian flip does not work from the HC.
--
Paul
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I"ve been following this, and I agree something fundamental just seems amiss. I really don't think there's anything about the Gemini or the firmware that's causing this, particularly since you have it working under some circumstances.?
Paul suggested you could try a few additional steps, but beyond an HGM reset and re-entering your data, I don't know if those will make any actual difference. The meridian flip is really about correct settings, coordinating those settings, and allowing enough time padding that even if the coordination misses by a handful of minutes, it will still work. Many hundreds/thousands of people use Gemini 2 with automated flips, or we'd hear a lot more about this issue. This is the first time i've heard CDC being used for imaging and meridian flip tracking (nice! i wasn't aware it did this, but i'm not a cdc user), so you may be breaking some ground on that software with a gemini, only from what I've seen in the past 5 years.?
I also think sorting out the flip without getting third party software involved would help isolate what is the cause.?
Here's a fairly simple test that could help using only the telescope and Gemini Telescope.net (computer attached) - cold start from CWD
- Use your hand controller to set your limits to something very generous, say 120 eastern, 120 western, with a western goto limit of 19. This is only for this test
- connect Gemini Telescope.net to your gemini, but make sure it's not updating any settings on connect
- using the hand controller, manually slew the mount until it is pier side west, but counterweight up. I'm talking a good 5-10 degrees past meridian and obviously counterweight up. You will probably need/want to adjust dec so your telescope/camera does not hit the pier. The goal here is to have a position that hasn't yet hit the limit but that you can clearly reach on opposite side of pier when you do a flip
- then from Gemini Telescope.net choose Perform Meridian Flip. If everything above is set up correctly, that should flip the mount to opposite side of pier. if that's the case, then you know things are working correctly and it's a matter of figuring out which settings are causing issues
 (just remember to reset your limits and WGT limit back to what you had them at).?
Meridian flips in general are not well defined in the spec nor handled consistently between applications, mounts, etc.?
We are adding a Flip Corridor feature in L6 to make things easier to configure and more consistent across a broader range of third party apps. Hopefully that will help reduce issues like this in the future
On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 12:40 PM Paul Homer < phomer60@...> wrote: Frank,
Back to my original post, you need to resolve the issue of not being able to perform a meridian flip with the hand controller before worrying about the software.
It must be either a time or location setting issue or the limits.
Paul,
Meridian flip does not work from the HC.
--
Paul
-- Brian?
Brian Valente astro portfolio? portfolio astrobin?
--
Brian
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Paul - I agree with you but I am at a loss.? I am hoping the smarter brains with this group can help me.
Attached is a screen shot of the relevant info.? Maybe someone can see an issue. Time and location seem correct.? The limits are what had worked initially ( I cannot go past 94 ). I previously had not used the HC meridian flip function to know if it ever worked - as an imager I rely on the capture software to manage.
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Frank these are just the mount settings, which need to be coordinated with the software meridian flip settings. Can you post those ? computer<->Gemini settings for date/time/timezone need to be the same as well. I¡¯ve seen incorrect timezone cause issues b/c it was an hour off between the two ? ? ? ? ? Thanks ? Brian ? Brian Valente Losmandy Astronomical ? Losmandy.com Tutorials and vids at ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Frank Wielgus
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2023 1:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Gemini-II_io] Meridian Flip - Stopped Working ? Paul - I agree with you but I am at a loss.? I am hoping the smarter brains with this group can help me.
Attached is a screen shot of the relevant info.? Maybe someone can see an issue. Time and location seem correct.? The limits are what had worked initially ( I cannot go past 94 ). I previously had not used the HC meridian flip function to know if it ever worked - as an imager I rely on the capture software to manage.
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Paul Kanevsky
