Re: Dec Stall from Custom Park to CWD
On Sat, Apr 12, 2025 at 05:14 AM, <fishonkevin@...> wrote:
Hi,
Last weekend got my G-11 Retro-kit installed but rain kept me from doing Cold Start. Did Quick Start got the Time/Location all set. Last night I was back out, rolled the roof and got ready for Cold Start. Set CWD using level, flipped on Gemini and my 1st chore was to set my Custom Home Park position. Slewed to my custom position, Pier Side W, Set Home Here. No problems so far. My next chore was to set my limits. My mount is in my custom home, so I press Park At CWD. The mount slews fine in RA all the way to CWD, but the Dec starts and stops, giving me a Dec Stall message. I tried manually pressing the Dec buttons, the Dec moves to the W, but when I press the East it beeps and says Dec Stall. I did not try and set the Custom Home to Pier Side E to see if I get the same behavior. One thing, while installing the Retro-fit kit I lost one of the grub/set screws for the Dec Worm Cover. Could this be the problem? Anyone know what size it is so I can get one from the hardware store?
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What retrofit kit, the Gemini 2 controller kit or a full Gemini 2 upgrade kit?? ?
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--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
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Re: Dec Stall from Custom Park to CWD
On Sat, Apr 12, 2025 at 08:14 AM, <fishonkevin@...> wrote:
Hi,
Last weekend got my G-11 Retro-kit installed but rain kept me from doing Cold Start. Did Quick Start got the Time/Location all set. Last night I was back out, rolled the roof and got ready for Cold Start. Set CWD using level, flipped on Gemini and my 1st chore was to set my Custom Home Park position. Slewed to my custom position, Pier Side W, Set Home Here. No problems so far. My next chore was to set my limits. My mount is in my custom home, so I press Park At CWD. The mount slews fine in RA all the way to CWD, but the Dec starts and stops, giving me a Dec Stall message. I tried manually pressing the Dec buttons, the Dec moves to the W, but when I press the East it beeps and says Dec Stall. I did not try and set the Custom Home to Pier Side E to see if I get the same behavior. One thing, while installing the Retro-fit kit I lost one of the grub/set screws for the Dec Worm Cover. Could this be the problem? Anyone know what size it is so I can get one from the hardware store?
?
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Hi,
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Stall messages are due to the motors being unable to overcome the mechanical resistance on that axis. The most common issues that cause that: unbalanced weight -- may need better balancing, or too tight a worm/gear mesh -- may need adjusting.
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Dec Stall from Custom Park to CWD
Hi,
Last weekend got my G-11 Retro-kit installed but rain kept me from doing Cold Start. Did Quick Start got the Time/Location all set. Last night I was back out, rolled the roof and got ready for Cold Start. Set CWD using level, flipped on Gemini and my 1st chore was to set my Custom Home Park position. Slewed to my custom position, Pier Side W, Set Home Here. No problems so far. My next chore was to set my limits. My mount is in my custom home, so I press Park At CWD. The mount slews fine in RA all the way to CWD, but the Dec starts and stops, giving me a Dec Stall message. I tried manually pressing the Dec buttons, the Dec moves to the W, but when I press the East it beeps and says Dec Stall. I did not try and set the Custom Home to Pier Side E to see if I get the same behavior. One thing, while installing the Retro-fit kit I lost one of the grub/set screws for the Dec Worm Cover. Could this be the problem? Anyone know what size it is so I can get one from the hardware store?
?
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Re: Gemini BOOTLOADER update available
Thanks Paul and Don.
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I've received that Gemini 2 from "Chip"....CPU is hot!? 218mA worth of heat.?? Just trying to find if there is anything that caused the burnout before I replace it.?? But I'll be using this new Bootloader.? Will report back on how it goes.
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Cheers
--
Brendan
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On Fri, Apr 11, 2025 at 01:14 PM, Art Trail wrote:
Hello all, where can I find the G2 logs? I am troubleshooting a "disconnect" problem (per ASCOM logs). Not sure if it actually is an ethernet problem or the mount just simply "checking out". I feel like I need more info before posting for help. Thanks!
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Hi Art, if you use the ASCOM driver virtual hand controller, you can go to the Setup->Troubleshooting Report... option while your Gemini is connected to the PC. Select all options, and press Collect and Save. It'll put a compressed zip file together that you can review yourself, or upload here or send to others. The troubleshooter attempts to collect as much as possible from all the logs and Gemini and PC/ASCOM settings.
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Re: Gemini BOOTLOADER update available
On Fri, Apr 11, 2025 at 03:58 PM, David Wormuth wrote:
Will this same hardware (the Amazon thingy)/software(Keil) update accomplish the upgrade from not 6 to 6 level firmware?
Hi Dave, no, the JTAG/ULINK2 unit is just for Bootloader update (can also be used to program and debug the ARM CPU, should you feel the need to ;))
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What I think you're referring to is the upgrade to the latest PIC servo controller firmware. For that you'll need PICKit2 or PICKit3 programmer, instead.
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Re: Gemini BOOTLOADER update available
On Fri, Apr 11, 2025 at 03:44 PM, David C. Partridge wrote:
I think that the Objects sub-folder should also contain files: BL_Gem2.bin, and MB_BL_2024.hex?
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Hi David, those files are not needed when using Keil debugger to flash the bootloader.?
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Re: Gemini BOOTLOADER update available
Will this same hardware (the Amazon thingy)/software(Keil) update accomplish the upgrade from not 6 to 6 level firmware?
Dave
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Show quoted text
On Apr 11, 2025, at 15:44, David C. Partridge via groups.io <david.partridge@...> wrote:
Paul
I think that the Objects sub-folder should also contain files: BL_Gem2.bin, and MB_BL_2024.hex?
D.
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Paul Kanevsky
Sent: 11 April 2025 12:34
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Gemini-II_io] Gemini BOOTLOADER update available
Hi Don, and others,
Please try this file instead of the .uvproj file that was mentioned in the instructions. This is the complete project zip that you'll need to download and extract to your hard drive.
Then, in Keil debugger open the MB_BL_2024.uvproj file from this extracted zip archive and proceed as in the instructions. Please post your results. We'll update the instruction file with the latest project file a bit later.
File structure should look like this after you uncompress the zip file:
<image001.png> Regards,
-Paul
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Re: Gemini BOOTLOADER update available
Paul ? I think that the Objects sub-folder should also contain files: BL_Gem2.bin, and MB_BL_2024.hex? ? D. ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Paul Kanevsky
Sent: 11 April 2025 12:34
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Gemini-II_io] Gemini BOOTLOADER update available? Please try this file instead of the .uvproj file that was mentioned in the instructions. This is the complete project zip that you'll need to download and extract to your hard drive. Then, in Keil debugger open the MB_BL_2024.uvproj file from this extracted zip archive and proceed as in the instructions. Please post your results. We'll update the instruction file with the latest project file a bit later. File structure should look like this after you uncompress the zip file:
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Hello all, where can I find the G2 logs? I am troubleshooting a "disconnect" problem (per ASCOM logs). Not sure if it actually is an ethernet problem or the mount just simply "checking out". I feel like I need more info before posting for help. Thanks!
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Re: Gemini BOOTLOADER update available
Good news! Thanks for reporting the issue and then testing the update, Don!?
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It makes sense, but it is an unanticipated benefit that faster booting means that GFU is no longer required to wait minutes for a reboot to complete :)
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Regards,
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? -Paul
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On Fri, Apr 11, 2025 at 12:51 PM, Don Klase wrote:
Hi Paul,
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Great news! ?This new file worked perfectly. ?Attached is a photo of the final confirmation.
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Also, and this is the best part, no more timeout error messages when updating via the GFU! ?I just did the update like you normally would, didn't remove the SD card or reformat it first.
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Thanks again guys.
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Re: Gemini BOOTLOADER update available
Hi Paul,
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Great news! ?This new file worked perfectly. ?Attached is a photo of the final confirmation.
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Also, and this is the best part, no more timeout error messages when updating via the GFU! ?I just did the update like you normally would, didn't remove the SD card or reformat it first.
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Thanks again guys.
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Re: Gemini-2 confusing east and west
Paul, thanks for the suggestion.? I checked the mount last night and the problem didn't happen after almost a week being off; it seems like the firmware update (and/or the new battery) may have fixed the problem. I'll check the clock if it happens again.
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Thanks,
-Joe
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Re: Gemini BOOTLOADER update available
Hi Don, and others,
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Please try this file instead of the .uvproj file that was mentioned in the instructions. This is the complete project zip that you'll need to download and extract to your hard drive. ?
Then, in Keil debugger open the MB_BL_2024.uvproj file from this extracted zip archive and proceed as in the instructions. Please post your results. We'll update the instruction file with the latest project file a bit later.[edit: done!]
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File structure should look like this after you uncompress the zip file:
?
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Regards,
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? ?-Paul
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Re: Mount Disconnect and Ignores Safety Limit
On Thu, Apr 10, 2025 at 09:38 PM, Konstantin Baranov wrote:
1. I was told the problem is that some SD cards are 2GB when they should be 8GB. I don't know more details how exactly is causes problems... Are there known issues around that? I am in Las Vegas, NV. Pretty dry I guess. I don't remember thunderstorms around the time when thing started, but I am not sure.
3. It's mini, two years old.
4. I don't have verbose logs. What I have, it just starts complaining 'Error reading RA/DEC.' at some point. In both recent cases it starts well in the middle of an exposure, so no slews, only guiding.
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My power supply is Victron Blue Smart IP65 12/7, connected in parallel with LiFePO4 battery. I have never seen anything suspicious coming out of them. I checked voltage at various points once in a while, it has always been within ¡À0.1V of requested voltage. I don't monitor continuously for momentary spikes or anything similarly sophisticated... Anyway, there are also two mini PCs and imaging goodies sitting on the same DC and none broke so far.
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If it still sounds like damaged hardware, I guess the only remedy is to replace the board, right?
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1 -- I don't believe there was any issue or compatibility with 2GB cards. That's the cards that Gemini has been working with for many years. I suspect just a bad batch of cards.?
3 -- OK, then it's not likely due to the date/time not being set
4 -- It sounds like something is causing Gemini to lock up. It could be communication from the PC, bad cable, power surge, ESD, or something else that someone else can think of.
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I also don't know for sure if anything is really damaged. Try resetting Gemini to HGM defaults, reset all settings, and see if the problem will reoccur. There are also some logs on Gemini SD card. After it locks up again, it may be worth it to retrieve all the logs from the SD card and check if anything was recorded during the incident.
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Re: Mount Disconnect and Ignores Safety Limit
1. I was told the problem is that some SD cards are 2GB when they should be 8GB. I don't know more details how exactly is causes problems... Are there known issues around that? I am in Las Vegas, NV. Pretty dry I guess. I don't remember thunderstorms around the time when thing started, but I am not sure.
3. It's mini, two years old.
4. I don't have verbose logs. What I have, it just starts complaining 'Error reading RA/DEC.' at some point. In both recent cases it starts well in the middle of an exposure, so no slews, only guiding.
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My power supply is Victron Blue Smart IP65 12/7, connected in parallel with LiFePO4 battery. I have never seen anything suspicious coming out of them. I checked voltage at various points once in a while, it has always been within ¡À0.1V of requested voltage. I don't monitor continuously for momentary spikes or anything similarly sophisticated... Anyway, there are also two mini PCs and imaging goodies sitting on the same DC and none broke so far.
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If it still sounds like damaged hardware, I guess the only remedy is to replace the board, right?
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Re: Mount Disconnect and Ignores Safety Limit
Hi Konstantin,
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There are many symptoms that you're describing that are hard to diagnose individually, but taken alltogether might be even harder to explain :)
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Let me try to put my thoughts down, one incident at a time:
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1. You said that your second Gemini was bricked, but replacing the SD card fixed it. Then, the first Gemini was "bricked", and again, replacing the SD card fixed that one.
I find this hard to imagine, except if the SD card was loose in both cases, and just moving things around caused it to dislodge.. in both cases? Strange, but not impossible.
It's also possible that the SD cards were from a bad batch and had some issues when Gemini attempted to write. Also not impossible, and maybe even a bit more likely.
Some sort of static electricity (or lightning) discharge may have corrupted Gemini memory, and/or SD card. Unlikely, but do you live in a very dry climate? Is there static electricity around, or lightning storms?
Without seeing and testing the "bricked" SD card, it's hard to know what actually happened, and if the card was bad or something else caused it to be corrupted.
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2. The voltage display is incorrect. That's measured by an analog-to-digital converter on the CPU. If it is really showing the wrong result, there may be some damage of the circuit board or the CPU or the supporting circuitry. Static electricity/lightning discharge can also explain this.
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3. The battery voltage appears to drop quickly. How old is your Gemini, and is it the "mini" or the "tall-boy" version? There was an issue with older Gemini revisions that required you to set the date/time soon after putting in a new battery. If you didn't do that, the battery would be quickly discharged. If your Gemini is fairly new... I don't have a good explanation for this.
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4. Gemini not responding but continues to track. For whatever reason, it sounds like Gemini is locking up. Tracking is handled by the servo PIC controllers, so if the CPU is hung, the mount will continue to track and will not respond to PC or HC commands. Other than sharing INDI drivers for that session, I don't know what else you could check.
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An HC connected to a non-responding (hung) Gemini will continue to cycle, trying to re-establish connection. The HC doesn't access Gemini directly -- there is a serial protocol between them, and the HC sends serial commands to the main CPU when the user selects a menu or presses a button. Other than some electrical fault (like a short) in the HC or its cable, I can't think of any way that plugging it into Gemini can cause Gemini to be bricked. Again, it could be static electricity (ESD) - caused damage.
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That's all I can come up with at the moment. Sorry, but other than ESD, I can't think of one common explanation that can explain all the faults you've reported.
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Oh, and do use a voltmeter to double-check your power supply when Gemini is plugged in and tracking (or slewing). Make sure that it doesn't vary too much from the expected 14v. Much over 18v can cause problems, and even permanent damage.
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Regards,
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? ?-Paul
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On Thu, Apr 10, 2025 at 07:04 PM, Konstantin Baranov wrote:
Paul,
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I saw very similar symptoms with my mount 3 times over last month. 20 nights, give or take.
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I do imaging with KStars/Ekos. The mount is connected to PC via Ethernet, HC is not connected at all. At some random point the mount stops talking to INDI driver. I do not see anything interesting the exact moment when it happens, seems pretty random. Meanwhile, the mount continues tracking until it hits mechanical resistance. Gemini Web server does not respond. Ethernet link is up as seen from the PC but no traffic there. When I see it happened, I come to the mount and plug HC. It lights up, goes to 'Connecting to Gemini' screen, waits there several seconds, and cycles back, again and again. Simple power cycling Gemini restores it back to a good state.
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This has never happened during the two years I have and very actively use the mount. It was L5 originally. I upgraded it to L6 as soon as the upgrade kit became available. I upgraded it further to 6.10 later with GFU. So far so good.
Until recently when bought second mount. Now please bear with me.
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That mount's Gemini bricked on second night. I contacted Losmandy and they sent me a replacement SD card. You may have heard this story from them. That new card helped resurrecting the Gemini and also likely updated the HC. Likely (I cannot say for sure but also do not see any alternative explanation) I then plugged that HC to the first mount for some quick task as I occasionally do. Nothing wrong at that point but next day the first mount bricked too! Losmandy sent me another SD card and it helped again. It happens to be 6.10 which should be the same version and I already had on that Gemini. The mount worked mostly fine since then. One suspicious thing started after that upgrade:
The power supply is 14.1V, not anywhere near 24V. I did not change it. The second mount sits on the same DC output and is connected in very similar manner. It reports 14.1-14.2V. Anyway, the mount has been working, so I ignored this quirk. Before the bricking and upgrade the first mount reported the voltage correctly.
Not long before I was forced to upgrade I saw the coin battery at ~2.8V. So I decided to change it too while I was there. I do not remember when exactly I changed it though. At first it was reported above 3V, but after several days it dropped to 2.9V, then 2.8V. That may be just a crappy battery or a symptom of something in Gemini, I don't know. Somewhere at that time I had the disconnect issue happened to me the first time.
I ignored the problem and continued using the mount for another several nights. Three days ago it happened again and had been waiting for me until last night.
As the coin battery was looking quite bad by then I decided to replace it again. I checked the old battery by shorting its outputs for 10s and measuring voltage after that. It was in the 2.95-3.0V range. The battery itself and Gemini contacts look clean, no rust or anything. Anyway, I put the new battery in, reset the settings, set time, loaded SRAM back.
I then immediately upgraded to 6.12 with GFU, cycled the power a few times. All looked good, so I started the imaging session.
In two hours it disconnected again! I simply restarted it because I have no more ideas what more I could jiggle. It worked fine through the rest of the night and is still online. The above screenshot it taken just now.
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I hope you fine some clue it this pile of details!
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Re: Gemini BOOTLOADER update available
Ah ok I¡¯ll wait for further instructions. Thanks for your help!
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Re: Gemini BOOTLOADER update available
In step 2, looks like the ARM compiler version 5 is missing.?
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Re: Gemini BOOTLOADER update available
On Thu, Apr 10, 2025 at 07:43 PM, Brendan wrote:
I was caught cross posting whips you were posting.
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Yes, there are a few files missing that should be included. The full bootloader was a compressed zip file with this project file and some additional files under the Objects folder. I asked Ren¨¦ to send the complete file, and will post the update here as soon as I get it.
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Don -- until then, please don't worry about trying all the settings I posted earlier: that's not going to help.
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Regards,
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? -Paul
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Chip Louie
Paul Kanevsky
David Wormuth
David C. Partridge
Art Trail
Don Klase
