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Gemini II dead after upgrade attemp

 

Hi group!
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First posting here from a longtime lurker.
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I bought my G11 with Gemini II new 4 years ago and have been using it sucessfully ever since.
This summer I also managed to upgrade to level 6: PIC programming the servocontrollers and
wrote new SD cards with firmware for the Gemini and HC. It worked fine, save some missing
catalogs etc on the hand controller.? I almost always run the Gemini from a raspberry Pi4 with
astroberry so that did not matter much anyway.
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This was were things stood before last night when I attempted ugrading to 6.1, again copying the
new firmware bin files to the two SD cards, using a card-reader as I don't have a Windows PC for the
GFU utility. Now I cannot connect to the Gemini at all: the handcontroller just cycles between
the opening screen - Initializeing HC... - Connecting to Gemini... all over. The ethernet gives no
response either. Even switching back to the original SD card on the Gemini (the one that came with
the unit and that I never modified) gives the same result: for all practical purposes the Gemini appears
dead, save for the red light on the on/off switch.
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Any suggestion for how to go from here?
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Regards,
Per Erik
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Re: Modeling problem

 

I finally had a clear night. When I had the problem there wasn't a lot of stars to align to because of trees so I was just using two stars going back and forth between the two. That was my problem. When I setup last night with better skies the third star corrected the model. I did try the Sync command after going to a star and then goto back to the same star and it did move off the star but still in the fov of the eyepiece. Problem is resolved.
Re: New Gemini L6.1 and Hand Controller v1.63 firmware available!

 

On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 11:38 AM, <Kevinroyphelan@...> wrote:
Never mind, I found it.....?
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Kevin
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I know I'm late to the party but my favorite thing to do is connect the Gemini 2s to the home LAN using Ethernet and then map the Geminis using Windows File Explorer.? This allows you full access to the contents of the Gemini 2 SD card file structure.? Then I just cut and copy as needed.??
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--

Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?

Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
Re: G11 mount upgrade. Best option

 

On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 11:51 AM, Ryan Noonan wrote:
Ah... Great idea Chip, thanks!
The rear end of my OTA got much lighter when I went to the Aurora Precision EQ cell but the drawback was that it hung much further down. That is a solid input.
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Cheers
Ryan
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Now that is a lovely mirror cell!? This counterweight tip works for large triplet refractors too where the focuser is a smaller lighter visually oriented model or the refractor is just a poorly designed front heavy monster and the typical commodity short tripod and mount designed for use with an SCT is maxed out for height and has you laying on the ground to observe.? This is funny to see IRL but not uncommon.? ?
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--

Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?

Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
Re: G11 mount upgrade. Best option

 

Thanks Chip,
I called Losmandy last week and they recommended the pier and RAEXT.? I will get the motors tucked in a few months.? The pier and RAEXT arrive tomorrow.? Apparently FedEX is also delivering a week of clouds and moon as well.? It looks like a pretty easy deal to add the ra extension so I will bring everything inside and set it up tomorrow.??
Right now my eastern limit is about 79 degrees.?
Tom
Re: G11 mount upgrade. Best option

 

Ah... Great idea Chip, thanks!
The rear end of my OTA got much lighter when I went to the Aurora Precision EQ cell but the drawback was that it hung much further down. That is a solid input.
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Cheers
Ryan
Re: New Gemini L6.1 and Hand Controller v1.63 firmware available!

 

Never mind, I found it.....?
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Kevin
Re: G11 mount upgrade. Best option

 

On Fri, Nov 8, 2024 at 11:09 AM, Ryan Noonan wrote:
Tom?
I believe you will be served well by the RA extension and Pier extension. I've attached some photos that will illustrate the increased mount rotation that you get by raising the OTA above the level of the leg attachment points. With any luck that will give you the additional range you need without needing to tuck the motors. I was initially worried that the increased height would add instability to the mount, but I have not noticed that at all. As someone who sets up and tears down almost daily, the RA extension also greatly increases the ease with which I do so.
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Hope these help reassure you in your decision and I wish you the best of luck.
Clear skies,
Ryan
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Hi Ryan,
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Another trick I have used and something you might consider if your mount is not payload limited is to add some counterweights on top of or behind the mirror end of the tube.? This allows you to push the tube forward in the rings and gain some clearance from the pier or tripod. The more you can push it out the more time you can gain before mechanical interference occurs.?
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--

Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?

Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
Re: New Gemini L6.1 and Hand Controller v1.63 firmware available!

 

Sorry to ask a really stupid question - I see how to upload an individual file to the SD - but there must be a simple way to upload folders. I just spent the last couple hours and can't figure it out.
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Kevin
Re: G11 mount upgrade. Best option

 

I just thought I¡¯d mention a clearance issue with my own setup. I have a G11 on a permanent pier with the 4¡± pier height extension and the RA EXT right ascension axis extender.
Thus far the largest scope I¡¯ve had on it is a carbon-fiber RC8. With this scope I get around 75 minutes of imaging on either side of the meridian. Ie., I can start with the scope 75 minutes E while imaging to the west, or image 75 minutes past the meridian when aiming towards the east.
If the RA EXT was about 2 inches ¡®longer¡¯ (or thicker), the saddle would be far enough from the mount that I could probably double the limits to nearly 150 minutes on either side of the meridian.
Years ago I used one of those Boller and Chivens 16 inch cassegrain scopes that had the Dec axis mounted at the end of a long RA shaft. No meridian flips were ever needed. I envy PlaneWave LA-350 mount users not having to do meridian flips, but not enough to drain my bank accounts. :-)
-Kevin
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Re: Another G11G/Gemini2 L6 question for a PHD2 dummy

 

I use SharpCap too, it works great. If you notice things getting worse as time progresses, it could be your gear is settling in. I usually leave my gear setup for moths at a time. I setup on patio blocks that have been there a few years now. Even with that I notice within the first couple days the mount may settle a little and I adjust the leveling and redo PA. You got a pretty heavy rig there so it may be worth double checking everything is balanced, leveled and the PA is still good.?
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If all is setup correctly the varying results from one night to the other, or even from one minute to the other, are most likely the seeing. It affects guiding more than it may appear.
The G11 is a solid mount, if you look at some of my other posts, you'll see I've gotten some great guiding results with it.
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If you want, you can use the PHD log uploader I'm sure many folks here, myself included, will be happy to take a look.?
It's under Help-->Upload Log Files... copy the link and paste it here and we can take a look.
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Darryl
Re: Another G11G/Gemini2 L6 question for a PHD2 dummy

 

Thank you Darryl, your suggestions are much appreciated. I'll definitely run the Guide assistant, which I have not done before. I get?it regarding?seeing and mine is typically fair at best so I'll make sure to adjust the exposure duration accordingly. I've been running 1" and will try 2" and see how it goes.

I forgot to mention I use the SharpCap polar alignment tool every session and always get the PA to 20" or less for both axis, and typically closer to 10".

On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 7:46?PM Darryl via <darrylackerman=[email protected]> wrote:
Seeing is a major part of guiding. If the seeing is bad, guiding is bad. Get the app/subscription it's a great way to see what your night has in store for you.?
Just because you go outside and it's still and clear, doesn't mean the seeing is good. Transparency and seeing are not the same. Transparency is basically how clear it is, seeing is what makes the stars twinkle, or not.?
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No 2 setups are the same. My G11 won't behave exactly like your G11, even with the same setup, so there takes some experimentation.?
Try setting your exposure duration to at least 2" maybe as much as 4" to avoid chasing the seeing. Also, I've found that with my G11 L6, and no PEC training done that the Predictive PEC algorithm for RA works best.?
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What matters most, aside from pixel size of your guide camera and focal length of your guidescope being set correctly in PHD2 is the Aggressiveness (Agg) and Minimum move (MnMo) settings at the bottom of the PHD window.? Set the aggressiveness to about 75 on both axis and the MnMo you'll have to play with. I have mine set around .20.
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Aggressiveness at 75 means the command will use 75% of the predicted correction. MnMo at .20 means the star must move 20% of a pixel before it sends a correction.
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If the mount corrects but then overshoots, meaning it has to then quickly pull it back the other way, set the aggressiveness lower, if it sends a lot of commands before the mount corrects, set it higher.?
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Run the calibration assistant, and Guide Assistants as well. Let the guide assistant run for at least 2 worm cycles. The G11 is 240" If I remember correctly, so run it for at least 480". Notice the DEC drift, that's about the best RMS you'll get for that particular night. When the guide assistant run is complete, accept the suggestions, then tweak from there.??
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While the guide assistant is running, your drift should be no more that 1-2 arc/sec over 5minutes on either axis, if it's more, adjust your PA. For DEC, adjust Azimuth, RA, Altitude.
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Re: Another G11G/Gemini2 L6 question for a PHD2 dummy

 

Seeing is a major part of guiding. If the seeing is bad, guiding is bad. Get the app/subscription it's a great way to see what your night has in store for you.?
Just because you go outside and it's still and clear, doesn't mean the seeing is good. Transparency and seeing are not the same. Transparency is basically how clear it is, seeing is what makes the stars twinkle, or not.?
?
No 2 setups are the same. My G11 won't behave exactly like your G11, even with the same setup, so there takes some experimentation.?
Try setting your exposure duration to at least 2" maybe as much as 4" to avoid chasing the seeing. Also, I've found that with my G11 L6, and no PEC training done that the Predictive PEC algorithm for RA works best.?
?
What matters most, aside from pixel size of your guide camera and focal length of your guidescope being set correctly in PHD2 is the Aggressiveness (Agg) and Minimum move (MnMo) settings at the bottom of the PHD window.? Set the aggressiveness to about 75 on both axis and the MnMo you'll have to play with. I have mine set around .20.
?
Aggressiveness at 75 means the command will use 75% of the predicted correction. MnMo at .20 means the star must move 20% of a pixel before it sends a correction.
?
If the mount corrects but then overshoots, meaning it has to then quickly pull it back the other way, set the aggressiveness lower, if it sends a lot of commands before the mount corrects, set it higher.?
?
Run the calibration assistant, and Guide Assistants as well. Let the guide assistant run for at least 2 worm cycles. The G11 is 240" If I remember correctly, so run it for at least 480". Notice the DEC drift, that's about the best RMS you'll get for that particular night. When the guide assistant run is complete, accept the suggestions, then tweak from there.??
?
While the guide assistant is running, your drift should be no more that 1-2 arc/sec over 5minutes on either axis, if it's more, adjust your PA. For DEC, adjust Azimuth, RA, Altitude.
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Re: New Gemini L6.1 and Hand Controller v1.63 firmware available!

 

Great to know! thanks for the clarification.
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Re: New Gemini L6.1 and Hand Controller v1.63 firmware available!

 

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Hi Ryan, yes, the automatic drift correction is applied when PEC programming is completed. But unless you see noticeable, uncorrected drift after PEC, I would not recommend that you reprogram it. The changes introduced are small, at best, so if your PEC is working, I¡¯d leave it be.
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On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 06:33 PM, Ryan Noonan wrote:

Paul?
If I understand correctly, does that mean an existing PEC will therefore not be affected by the change/update?

Would it be beneficial to record a new PEC with PEMPRO again? or is it only affect when PEC is recorded directly to the mount via the ASCOM PEC settings?
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Thanks for your clarification!
Ryan
Re: New Gemini L6.1 and Hand Controller v1.63 firmware available!

 

Paul?
If I understand correctly, does that mean an existing PEC will therefore not be affected by the change/update?

Would it be beneficial to record a new PEC with PEMPRO again? or is it only affect when PEC is recorded directly to the mount via the ASCOM PEC settings?
?
Thanks for your clarification!
Ryan
Re: G11 mount upgrade. Best option

 

On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 11:02 AM, <Tjkallenbach@...> wrote:
Hello,
I am not sure if this is the correct forum but I will ask anyway.? I have a G11, non-tucked in motors, Gemini 2 recently upgraded.? When I use the G11 with a short refractor I can set the limits with a fairly broad range, however when I put the TS Optics 130 on the mount, the limits have to be narrowed considerably to avoid a crash into the tripod.? Also, with either scope, the saddle can be quite close to the motors.? I could get the motors tucked in, which adds up in cost pretty fast, I could buy RA extensions to move the scope away from the motors and/or I could buy a pier extension to help clear the tripod.? Could someone please provide advice as to what may be the best first option???
I sure do appreciate the help.
Thank you,
Tom
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Hi Tom,
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You will likely find that to get maximum limit range you will need to do all of the actual mount updates starting with tucked-in servo motors with spring loaded OPWs as well as the RAEXT.? These parts were designed to work together to overcome the mechanical interference limitations of the classic Losmandy straight-line motor drive configuration.? This means that unless you get these updates all done together you will not achieve the maximum RA and DEC freedom possible because the mount mechanically interferes with itself before you will have any OTA or imaging train mechanical interference.? Also depending on which tripod you use an 8" or 12" pier extension can improve the maximum limits available to your imaging system.??
?
--

Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?

Astrospheric - South Pasadena, CA?
Re: Minimal response from the touch screen on the HC.

 

Great tip, Ken.? Just now ordered some DeoxIT.
Re: Minimal response from the touch screen on the HC.

 

Worked like charm, Paul.? This is a testimony to the robustness of the Gemini as I had purchased my GM811 almost 3 years ago and never had a glitch.? Thanks much.
Re: Minimal response from the touch screen on the HC.

 

Recalibration did the trick for me last week. I had a similar issue except it exhibited itself by cycling through language options as I touched Cold Start over and over. The Groups archive quickly set me straight.

FXF
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