Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 08:48 PM, Emily Mae wrote:
more fully integrate the schools,
LOL.? What they wanted to do was attract more white kids....bring in the white savior....if this doesn't say "structural racism," I don't know what does.... I agree that the advance of a more multi-cultural and diverse population will help.? Which is why the GOP is freaking out, why white nationalists and militia groups are freaking out and wreaking violence on the rest of us.? They want to go back in time, MAGA Again and Again, and maintain the white patriarchal power structure they so need to protect their fragile egos.?? ? --
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 08:06 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
I'd be curious to hear your response to it.
?
First, that's a bummer.? Looks like they missed the boat, focused on race and forgot to focus on academics.? Gotta have both.? Here's part of the larger picture:?
"A 2019??confirmed what Kansas Policy Institute?.? Most of the more than $400 million allocated to At-Risk students ¡°was used for teachers and programs for all students and did not appear to specifically address at-risk students as required by state law.¡±
 Legislators gave schools a seven-fold increase in at-risk funding between 2005 and 2019, going from $50 million to $413 million.? But since most of that money wasn¡¯t spent as intended, it¡¯s not surprising that achievement for at-risk students remained abysmally low.??
-----------------------------------
Despite spending more than $2 billion over two decades to improve education and attract more white students, the Kansas City School District has essentially been judged a failure by a state education review board, which has denied it accreditation.
With the loss of state accreditation on Monday, public schools in Kansas City, Mo., took another blow to its battered image. Despite long and ambitious efforts stemming from a 1977 desegregation lawsuit, it remains a district where about 75 percent of its students are members of racial minorities and where test scores remain low.
He said the district had seen improvements in the attendance rate lately and had already begun several new strategies at improving education, including a move for more demanding standards on literacy.
The problems of the Kansas City schools, and the long court remedies designed to improve education and more fully integrate the schools, have long been a centerpiece in the national debate over race, test scores and the competing notions of raising academic achievement.
Ms. Grant said that while the school district had spent lavishly on new facilities and had instituted programs like those at a Greek studies magnet school, designed largely to attract suburban students, not enough attention has been paid to basic learning in the classroom.
? --
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 11:57 AM, Steve Sundur wrote:
I think the onus of white guilt that you carry around with you causes you to think that we must pour money into all the areas you cited previously. But simply throwing money at problems usually doesn't work, and especially when it involves just giving money away to people.
?
As usual the problem of working our way out of "structural racism" is complicated and will require work and education and hard choices. Slogans don't do much.
?
I have looked at different approaches to "solving" racism, some of which suggest it is a problem that won't go away for another 150 years until the population becomes more mixed?
Are you saying I carry "white guilt" around because I am stating that "structural racism" exists?? Because I am aware of the privileges I inherited and benefited from by virtue of the advantages granted by our ancestral colonizers? Those who who slaughtered majority populations of indigenous peoples in the name of civilization and relocated the remaining to reservations? Those who profited and built this country on the backs of slaves?? I'm about personal responsibility Steve, just like you.? I personally believe reparations are owed by this nation.? ??? ? --
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
If you want some hard evidence of how simply throwing money at the problem fails, here it is.
I'd be curious to hear your response to it.
I am guessing your response will be, we need to throw more money at, or we didn't throw enough money at it.
But since you imply that schools are sub-substandard in minority communities, and that if?schools were simply better funded, the results would be dramatically different, well it simply is not true.?
But you will cycle back to "structural racism" is so pervasive that nothing short of a complete overall of society is necessary to rectify the problems created by slavery and the subsequent discrimination that followed.?
On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 08:56:59 AM CDT, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 10:44 AM, Steve Sundur wrote:
The problem with education is often not the quality of schools,
Oh yes, this is documented and has been for years---the issue of substandard schools.? Local property taxes fund schools.? Hmmmm..... --
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
I think the onus of white guilt that you carry around with you causes you to think that we must pour money into all the areas you cited previously. But simply throwing money at problems usually doesn't work, and especially when it involves just giving money away to people.
As usual the problem of working our way out of "structural racism" is complicated and will require work and education and hard choices. Slogans don't do much.
I have looked at different approaches to "solving" racism, some of which suggest it is a problem that won't go away for another 150 years until the population becomes more mixed?
On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 08:47:30 AM CDT, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 01:13 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
It could cause some degree of cognitive dissonance as you have to factor in, to what degree "structural racism" may have played in such a situation.
There is a direct line between the effects to communities and families from structural racism.? No cognitive dissonance.? That doesn't mean I don't believe in personal responsibility.? It isn't an "either/or" debate.? That's what you don't choose to see.? You're taking the easy way out.?? ? --
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 10:44 AM, Steve Sundur wrote:
The problem with education is often not the quality of schools,
Oh yes, this is documented and has been for years---the issue of substandard schools.? Local property taxes fund schools.? Hmmmm..... --
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 01:13 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
It could cause some degree of cognitive dissonance as you have to factor in, to what degree "structural racism" may have played in such a situation.
There is a direct line between the effects to communities and families from structural racism.? No cognitive dissonance.? That doesn't mean I don't believe in personal responsibility.? It isn't an "either/or" debate.? That's what you don't choose to see.? You're taking the easy way out.?? ? --
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
You might as well know, if you don't already, how this attitude of providing a cover for basically any failings, as due to racism, plays out practically.? It is already in evidence in many urban cities, as I've indicated before.? If you are a victim of a violent crime, it is not likely to be prosecuted. Or not prosecuted aggressively.? ?Even murder 1 suspects may be released on their own recognizance.? Never mind a stolen car, or a break-in or property damage.? There will be little or no follow up by law enforcement because they know it will lead no where.??
Hopefully you will not find yourself in such a predicament.? It could cause some degree of cognitive dissonance as you have to factor in, to what degree "structural racism" may have played in such a situation.
On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 09:54:10 AM CDT, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 09:32 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
You may chalk this situation up to pure unadulterated racism,
I chalk these observations up to the long-term impacts of "structural racism."? Please educate yourself on what this is.? The "structural" piece is key here.? We are products of our environment to large degree.? I was raised middle-class, with a familial emphasis on education and work ethic.? I had excellent teachers in a public school, with lots of extra-curricular activities.? I took family vacations and read voraciously.? I lived in a safe neighborhood.? Yes, it was white.? I got in to the schools that I wanted, I eventually obtained a degree, but not until I was 30.? In my 20's I worked a number of minimum-wage jobs, sometimes 2, and spent 4 summers working hard in Alaska in order to put a few thousand in the bank to draw on for the rest of the year.? I finished school because I was tired of making so little money and I wanted more out of life.? I got a professional job through a friend I met in college.? All this speaks to advantage.? My mother's ancestors owned a logging company and built wealth that they passed on to the generations.? This "built wealth" has afforded my mother and her siblings and all her cousins advantages!!!!? Wealth managed well, builds more wealth, and opportunities!!!? Wealth building has been denied to the black community from the get go.? Read up on it.?? ? --
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
Hey Em,
Thanks for your feedback.? I skimmed the article. I afraid the divide is simply too great to really even discuss.? The measures suggested I don't feel are practical and have failed in many ways.? I brought up education.? The problem with education is often not the quality of schools, but the quality of home life. And then once you dig into that, you bring in whole nother set of problems, and we end up going round and round as we have been doing.
I did not read the second article, but you, (or someone) if I understand it correctly, want to replace the meaning of "personal responsibility" with something different.? It sort of reminds me of the joint statement by Chinese premier Xi and Putin when they met during the Olympics.? They put forth the idea, that the term "democracy" needed to be redefined to show that it represented the type of government currently being practiced in those two countries. Riiigght.
Personal responsibility?is, in my mind, a pretty clear term.
On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 09:41:16 AM CDT, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 08:41 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
What I find odd, is that there is no willingness to put any responsibility on the black community to make progress in areas to improve their quality of life.? Instead,?any and all problems in the black community are attributed to racism.??
Steve, you are missing the main point and replacing the words "structural racism", which I continue to mention with "personal responsibility."? It's basically the same thing as replacing "common sense gun control" with "personal responsibility."? Here are a couple of articles on what structural racism is and how to start to combat it:?? Article on solutions: Article from the AMA on what it is, in general:? Good article on "what it is", making the point that it is so embedded, that it is invisible.? This is key to understand.? It is invisible because it is embedded in the fabric of American society, and as such, easy to replace with the words "personal responsibility," which is a completely different conversation. ? --
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 09:32 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
but in my mind there are conscious, personal choices being made.
Again, we are products of our world view.? If pregnancy is the best option a girl can think of, that's a problem.? Yes, it's a personal choice.? We are creatures of copy--I'm sure my life would have been very different AND MY CHOICES if I was born into an impoverished neighborhood and all that brings.? In my family, going to college was never a question and my grandparents saw to it they would put aside money to help.? They had the means.? This country's wealth is in the hands of white America, built on the backs of our black ancestors.? I'm in full favor of reparations; the playing field is not level, not even close.? We need structural change.? ? --
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 09:32 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
You may chalk this situation up to pure unadulterated racism,
I chalk these observations up to the long-term impacts of "structural racism."? Please educate yourself on what this is.? The "structural" piece is key here.? We are products of our environment to large degree.? I was raised middle-class, with a familial emphasis on education and work ethic.? I had excellent teachers in a public school, with lots of extra-curricular activities.? I took family vacations and read voraciously.? I lived in a safe neighborhood.? Yes, it was white.? I got in to the schools that I wanted, I eventually obtained a degree, but not until I was 30.? In my 20's I worked a number of minimum-wage jobs, sometimes 2, and spent 4 summers working hard in Alaska in order to put a few thousand in the bank to draw on for the rest of the year.? I finished school because I was tired of making so little money and I wanted more out of life.? I got a professional job through a friend I met in college.? All this speaks to advantage.? My mother's ancestors owned a logging company and built wealth that they passed on to the generations.? This "built wealth" has afforded my mother and her siblings and all her cousins advantages!!!!? Wealth managed well, builds more wealth, and opportunities!!!? Wealth building has been denied to the black community from the get go.? Read up on it.?? ? --
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 08:41 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
What I find odd, is that there is no willingness to put any responsibility on the black community to make progress in areas to improve their quality of life.? Instead,?any and all problems in the black community are attributed to racism.??
Steve, you are missing the main point and replacing the words "structural racism", which I continue to mention with "personal responsibility."? It's basically the same thing as replacing "common sense gun control" with "personal responsibility."? Here are a couple of articles on what structural racism is and how to start to combat it:?? Article on solutions: Article from the AMA on what it is, in general:? Good article on "what it is", making the point that it is so embedded, that it is invisible.? This is key to understand.? It is invisible because it is embedded in the fabric of American society, and as such, easy to replace with the words "personal responsibility," which is a completely different conversation. ? --
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
Sal, has it ocurred to you that since you appear unwilling to answer simple questions, or provide effective counterpoints to the issues I bring up, you have resorted to simple name calling and personal attacks.
Does that sound like anyone you know......
"Crooked Hillary" "Sleepy Joe" "Wacky Bill"
Just sayin'
On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 04:50:10 AM CDT, Sal Sunshine <salsunshineiniowa@...> wrote:
Thank you for doing Steve¡¯s research for him, it is evidently beneath him to look things up to try and prove his prejudices.?
A perfect example of white privilege in action. ?He¡¯s so far gone he feels entitled to demand people prove his point for him. ?Crazy.
On Aug 1, 2022, at 9:48 PM, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
?On Sun, Jul 31, 2022 at 05:31 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
I asked, simply, "Why do you think so many black girls have babies while they are still teenagers, or in their very early twenties"
?
Steve, if you look it up, you'll find the problem is not limited to "black girls."? Here is your answer pursuant to a 2015 article.? Notice, btw, no "men" are mentioned here.? Want to hazard a guess??? BTW, teen pregnancy rates are down across the board since then.?
But when you look at actual rates, they demonstrate a stark reality: Girls of color are much more likely to become pregnant.
Among non-Hispanic white teens, the birth rate in 2013 was 19 births per 1,000, while among black teens, it was 39 births per 1,000. Latina teens have the highest birth rate, at 42 births per 1,000 teens. The birth rate for Native American teens was 31 births per 1,000, while among Asian/Pacific Islander teens, the birth rate was 9 births per 1,000. ?
Poverty plays a big role in high teen birth rates, as does geography. Rural teens have higher rates of pregnancy than do urban and suburban teens. Southern states, which tend to be poorer and have the highest rates of HIV infections, also report the highest number of teen births. Education and access to contraceptives play a larger role in teen pregnancy rates than do cultural or religious differences, teen advocates suggest.
¡°When you look at these disparities, it has a lot more to do with a lack of opportunity than with the color of your skin,¡± Albert said.
Poor teens of color are less likely to have access to quality health care and contraceptive services, and are much more likely to live in neighborhoods where jobs and opportunities for advancement are scarce, according to Gail Wyatt, a clinical psychologist and sex researcher at UCLA.
¡°We¡¯re talking about income; we¡¯re talking about sub-par education ¡? with no education about sex and your body,¡± Wyatt said. ¡°This pretty much leaves these girls extremely vulnerable¡. It¡¯s simply an incompatible combination of circumstances that these girls are involved and captured in.¡±
?--
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Steve, if you look it up, you'll find the problem is not limited to "black girls."? Here is your answer pursuant to a 2015 article.? Notice, btw, no "men" are mentioned here.? Want to hazard a guess???BTW, teen pregnancy rates are down across the board since then.?
But when you look at actual rates, they demonstrate a stark reality: Girls of color are much more likely to become pregnant.
Among non-Hispanic white teens, the birth rate in 2013 was 19 births per 1,000, while among black teens, it was 39 births per 1,000. Latina teens have the highest birth rate, at 42 births per 1,000 teens. The birth rate for Native American teens was 31 births per 1,000, while among Asian/Pacific Islander teens, the birth rate was 9 births per 1,000. ?
Poverty plays a big role in high teen birth rates, as does geography. Rural teens have higher rates of pregnancy than do urban and suburban teens. Southern states, which tend to be poorer and have the highest rates of HIV infections, also report the highest number of teen births. Education and access to contraceptives play a larger role in teen pregnancy rates than do cultural or religious differences, teen advocates suggest.
¡°When you look at these disparities, it has a lot more to do with a lack of opportunity than with the color of your skin,¡± Albert said.
Poor teens of color are less likely to have access to quality health care and contraceptive services, and are much more likely to live in neighborhoods where jobs and opportunities for advancement are scarce, according to Gail Wyatt, a clinical psychologist and sex researcher at UCLA.
¡°We¡¯re talking about income; we¡¯re talking about sub-par education ¡? with no education about sex and your body,¡± Wyatt said. ¡°This pretty much leaves these girls extremely vulnerable¡. It¡¯s simply an incompatible combination of circumstances that these girls are involved and captured in.¡±
Perhaps you can?clarify.? Are you saying that that these circumstances are so onerous, that these girls have no choice but to get pregnant?? Or that they are pre-disposed to get pregnant because of this?
? These make for good bullet points, but I'm afraid on closer examination, they may not hold up well.??
Women who live in urban communities, not having access to contraception. Even 100% free contraception. Really???
That public education in urban areas so deficient that girls are not taught about sex, or their bodies.? Really?? Or they don't pick up on knowledge about sex and their bodies from other sources.
Economic opportunities don't exist.? Really?
--
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
Thank you for doing Steve¡¯s research for him, it is evidently beneath him to look things up to try and prove his prejudices.?
A perfect example of white privilege in action. ?He¡¯s so far gone he feels entitled to demand people prove his point for him. ?Crazy.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Aug 1, 2022, at 9:48 PM, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
?On Sun, Jul 31, 2022 at 05:31 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
I asked, simply, "Why do you think so many black girls have babies while they are still teenagers, or in their very early twenties"
?
Steve, if you look it up, you'll find the problem is not limited to "black girls."? Here is your answer pursuant to a 2015 article.? Notice, btw, no "men" are mentioned here.? Want to hazard a guess??? BTW, teen pregnancy rates are down across the board since then.?
But when you look at actual rates, they demonstrate a stark reality: Girls of color are much more likely to become pregnant.
Among non-Hispanic white teens, the birth rate in 2013 was 19 births per 1,000, while among black teens, it was 39 births per 1,000. Latina teens have the highest birth rate, at 42 births per 1,000 teens. The birth rate for Native American teens was 31 births per 1,000, while among Asian/Pacific Islander teens, the birth rate was 9 births per 1,000. ?
Poverty plays a big role in high teen birth rates, as does geography. Rural teens have higher rates of pregnancy than do urban and suburban teens. Southern states, which tend to be poorer and have the highest rates of HIV infections, also report the highest number of teen births. Education and access to contraceptives play a larger role in teen pregnancy rates than do cultural or religious differences, teen advocates suggest.
¡°When you look at these disparities, it has a lot more to do with a lack of opportunity than with the color of your skin,¡± Albert said.
Poor teens of color are less likely to have access to quality health care and contraceptive services, and are much more likely to live in neighborhoods where jobs and opportunities for advancement are scarce, according to Gail Wyatt, a clinical psychologist and sex researcher at UCLA.
¡°We¡¯re talking about income; we¡¯re talking about sub-par education ¡? with no education about sex and your body,¡± Wyatt said. ¡°This pretty much leaves these girls extremely vulnerable¡. It¡¯s simply an incompatible combination of circumstances that these girls are involved and captured in.¡±
?--
Em
|
Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 09:48:12 PM CDT, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Sun, Jul 31, 2022 at 05:31 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
I asked, simply, "Why do you think so many black girls have babies while they are still teenagers, or in their very early twenties"
?
Steve, if you look it up, you'll find the problem is not limited to "black girls."? Here is your answer pursuant to a 2015 article.? Notice, btw, no "men" are mentioned here.? Want to hazard a guess???
I don't think I ever implied the "problem" is limited to black girls.??
Since you are willing to discuss the topic, I will share my observations, although with some hesitation.? These are my observations. I don't claim them to be the final word.? I will say that I have had close relationships with both young black women that have worked for me, and black men, that have also worked with me.? And you might be surprised by the candid conversations that take place. You may say there is an implied power relationship because of that, but you would be mistaken.? If you wish to make an issue on those grounds, I would just dismiss it. The organizational chart at my business is basically flat, with a small bump in the middle. And plus, these conversations had nothing to do with business.
For some, I think the thought of graduating high school, without a plan for after high school, may cause them to get pregnant, as it provides them with something that constitutes?a next chapter for them. I think also, for many,?it is a?"rite of passage", that establishes their womanhood.
They do not expect their baby daddy to stick around, and in most cases they don't even want them around.? If the BD has a job, then yes, they will sue for child support. There is little trust among the BM towards their BD.? "Bitches" and "niggas", are the typical terms THEY USE when describing their relationships.
I think also that these women, or?girls may have been raised by single mothers, so they may not be comfortable or feel?awkward entering into a traditional male/female relationship.? It may also be, in some way, be a show of respect to their own mothers, with whom they continue to connect with.
The men feel little obligation to remain in the picture after about six months. They often lose interest, and there are other women with whom they want to make a connection.?
You may chalk this situation up to pure unadulterated racism, as evidently Sal does, but in my mind there are conscious, personal choices being made. Does racism come into play? I am sure it does, but I clearly see two forces at play. ?
P.S. I have someone doing work for me. Someone from rural Missouri.? He has two children with two different women, one of whom he lives with.? He was not married to the first woman and?is not married to the women he lives with, and with whom he shares the child.? He tries to avoid childcare?as best he can.? He is white.
BTW, teen pregnancy rates are down across the board since then.?
But when you look at actual rates, they demonstrate a stark reality: Girls of color are much more likely to become pregnant.
Among non-Hispanic white teens, the birth rate in 2013 was 19 births per 1,000, while among black teens, it was 39 births per 1,000. Latina teens have the highest birth rate, at 42 births per 1,000 teens. The birth rate for Native American teens was 31 births per 1,000, while among Asian/Pacific Islander teens, the birth rate was 9 births per 1,000. ?
Poverty plays a big role in high teen birth rates, as does geography. Rural teens have higher rates of pregnancy than do urban and suburban teens. Southern states, which tend to be poorer and have the highest rates of HIV infections, also report the highest number of teen births. Education and access to contraceptives play a larger role in teen pregnancy rates than do cultural or religious differences, teen advocates suggest.
¡°When you look at these disparities, it has a lot more to do with a lack of opportunity than with the color of your skin,¡± Albert said.
Poor teens of color are less likely to have access to quality health care and contraceptive services, and are much more likely to live in neighborhoods where jobs and opportunities for advancement are scarce, according to Gail Wyatt, a clinical psychologist and sex researcher at UCLA.
¡°We¡¯re talking about income; we¡¯re talking about sub-par education ¡? with no education about sex and your body,¡± Wyatt said. ¡°This pretty much leaves these girls extremely vulnerable¡. It¡¯s simply an incompatible combination of circumstances that these girls are involved and captured in.¡±
?--
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 10:01:30 PM CDT, Emily Mae via groups.io <emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Sun, Jul 31, 2022 at 10:08 AM, Steve Sundur wrote:
But, since you bring up racism, I am wondering where you draw the line between personal responsibility/accountability and racism, as it pertains to some of the endemic problems in the black community.
?
For example, do black women giving birth in their teens, with no male figure in the picture, or perhaps a revolving door of black men, is this racism, or a matter of personal choice.??
Steve, I don't draw that line.? The bigger picture is that of how "structural racism" has impacted black and brown communities.? For example, structural racism has prevented wealth building in black communities.? Impoverished neighborhoods, with no investment, substandard education and healthcare and opportunity, with no hope of family help for college-age teens, etc., etc., results in higher teen births, among a multitude of other problems.? There is a relationship between racism and teen birth.? Educate teens....particularly the boys...especially the boys...and make contraception free.??
But tell me, Em, where do you live?? Do you live in a neighborhood where crime is prevalent, or do you live a neighborhood where you feel safe taking a walk?.? And if so, why would that be?
?
And are you saying that there have not been attempts to build wealth in black communities?? Are you saying there have not been numerous examples to provide top drawer educational opportunities in black communities???There have been, of course, and in most cases,?they have not had the desired effect.
What I find odd, is that there is no willingness to put any responsibility on the black community to make progress in areas to improve their quality of life.? Instead,?any and all problems in the black community are attributed to racism.??If a young black person decides to become serious in school, they are many times ostracized.?
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Sun, Jul 31, 2022 at 10:08 AM, Steve Sundur wrote:
But, since you bring up racism, I am wondering where you draw the line between personal responsibility/accountability and racism, as it pertains to some of the endemic problems in the black community.
?
For example, do black women giving birth in their teens, with no male figure in the picture, or perhaps a revolving door of black men, is this racism, or a matter of personal choice.??
Steve, I don't draw that line.? The bigger picture is that of how "structural racism" has impacted black and brown communities.? For example, structural racism has prevented wealth building in black communities.? Impoverished neighborhoods, with no investment, substandard education and healthcare and opportunity, with no hope of family help for college-age teens, etc., etc., results in higher teen births, among a multitude of other problems.? There is a relationship between racism and teen birth.? Educate teens....particularly the boys...especially the boys...and make contraception free.?? ? --
Em
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Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
On Sun, Jul 31, 2022 at 05:31 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:
I asked, simply, "Why do you think so many black girls have babies while they are still teenagers, or in their very early twenties"
?
Steve, if you look it up, you'll find the problem is not limited to "black girls."? Here is your answer pursuant to a 2015 article.? Notice, btw, no "men" are mentioned here.? Want to hazard a guess??? BTW, teen pregnancy rates are down across the board since then.?
But when you look at actual rates, they demonstrate a stark reality: Girls of color are much more likely to become pregnant.
Among non-Hispanic white teens, the birth rate in 2013 was 19 births per 1,000, while among black teens, it was 39 births per 1,000. Latina teens have the highest birth rate, at 42 births per 1,000 teens. The birth rate for Native American teens was 31 births per 1,000, while among Asian/Pacific Islander teens, the birth rate was 9 births per 1,000. ?
Poverty plays a big role in high teen birth rates, as does geography. Rural teens have higher rates of pregnancy than do urban and suburban teens. Southern states, which tend to be poorer and have the highest rates of HIV infections, also report the highest number of teen births. Education and access to contraceptives play a larger role in teen pregnancy rates than do cultural or religious differences, teen advocates suggest.
¡°When you look at these disparities, it has a lot more to do with a lack of opportunity than with the color of your skin,¡± Albert said.
Poor teens of color are less likely to have access to quality health care and contraceptive services, and are much more likely to live in neighborhoods where jobs and opportunities for advancement are scarce, according to Gail Wyatt, a clinical psychologist and sex researcher at UCLA.
¡°We¡¯re talking about income; we¡¯re talking about sub-par education ¡? with no education about sex and your body,¡± Wyatt said. ¡°This pretty much leaves these girls extremely vulnerable¡. It¡¯s simply an incompatible combination of circumstances that these girls are involved and captured in.¡±
?--
Em
|
Re: If You Don't Have A Center, You Don't Have Stability
I think I'll take a pass on this Ravi.? I try to employ the KISS* method in my affairs, both business and personal.? There's too much to unpack here.
I'll accept any label, or JUDGEMENT you (or anyone here) wishes to assign to me.
Take Care,
Your Friendly Older White Guy, Steve
* Keep It Simple, Stupid
On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 01:30:49 AM CDT, RC <chivukula.ravi@...> wrote:
You must watch lot of MTV Steve? Or listen to rap songs? Or black reality shows? Are menthol cigarettes cultural?
Just to also consider that black folks have embraced and continue to embrace derogatory, racist, judgmental, stereotypes assigned to them by their oppressors - you know to take the power away, or surrender, accept as they have lives to live!!
I wonder though - do you have derogatory terms for white southern women - say of Appalachia? Is it cultural for them? Is it a reflection of the entire White race? Or more kids equates to more money from guvmint? Hence socio-economic? I personally don¡¯t judge either a black teen mom from St. Louis or white teen mom from West Virginia.?
You are from what I can tell a very friendly, nice guy if I ran into you in my neighborhood but the casual racism you show, though not obvious to you, is very transparent to some! (And I do see many older white guys in my neighborhood exactly like you - not kidding!)
Yours truly, The resident Indian Chief.?
On Jul 31, 2022, at 6:52 PM, Steve Sundur via groups.io <steve.sundur@...> wrote:
?
Ravi:? Of course,?doesn¡¯t mean Steve¡¯s comments aren't racist - Black teens do have more babies, but it¡¯s not a race thing more so than socioeconomic - poverty, education etc and system racism that¡¯s the cause of many other issues also is the contributor.
It's really rather fascinating.? I see it up close, from both the women's side, and the men's side. Even delicate discussions that get into the nitty gritty. Baby Mama and Baby Daddy issues across the board.
Many of the things you indicate above are true.? But there are cultural components as well.? I won't go into them now, but I follow some of the facebook postings of some of women who have worked for me.
There are cultural differences.? There just are.? And I am not making a value judgement about it.?? ?
? On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 08:58:53 AM CDT, Emily Mae via < emily.mae50@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 08:08 PM, Steve Sundur wrote:But you seem to imply that any who works hard, who comes up with innovations, and is rewarded thus, is somehow undeserving, and has gamed the system.? Hey, I don't know what you mean here.? What is the "S" word?? "Structural"?? Are you saying that because I'm acknowledging the existence of "Structural racism", I'm saying what you state above????
I'm sorry.? That was very unclear.? The "S" work I'm referring to was "socialist".? But, since you bring up racism, I am wondering where you draw the line between personal responsibility/accountability and racism, as it pertains to some of the endemic problems in the black community.
For example, do black women giving birth in their teens, with no male figure in the picture, or perhaps a revolving door of black men, is this racism, or a matter of personal choice.??
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Emily Mae
Sal Sunshine