Dalton Lot 2 Lathe Issues
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I have a Lot 2 Dalton Lathe, I posted a photo of it and some details at the time Lot 2 No 23, anyway I have now sorted a few items out namely mounted the lathe on a metal table and fixing the motor below and to the rear with the Pulley above to feed the Lathe. I had the motor fixed, the solenoid had broken, its now sorted. Now I'm at the point of turning metal so I've produced a few practise pieces and have found issues more important than say sorting out any backlash in the Slides.
1) On turning work I'm finding when cutting that the work ends with a slight taper (thicker at the Lathe Chuck end), there's 0.5mm or a number of thou out over say 50mm or 2", I've checked its not the top slide being out and causing it by moving from back to front using the carriage and apron instead for the parallel movement of the cutting tool. 2) I have play on the Tailstock Barrel when I want to drill into my Work Piece, it ends up off centre. The Lathe is 108 years old so there's going to be play everywhere but I need to fix these if it's to become a successful working lathe. The Lathe Bed is Cast Iron so that should be straight, so is the error in the Headstock bearings, so that it's running slightly out of line. I'm not sure what or where the play is in the Tailstock Barrel.? |
开云体育Hi Bryan?? ? OK as to your lathe cutting a taper.? Your bed I assume is bolted to your table.? If so you have twisted the bed.? So if the end of your work piece is smaller than at the chuck here is what you have to do.? You will need to shim the rear of the tail stock bed foot.? This will twist the bed back straight.? I know this sounds odd but this is how its done and has been for a couple of hundred years of lathe manufacturing.? I? have a Jet lathe that the bed was not only twisted but worn and I was cutting .008 of taper in ?a 6 inch long work piece.? So as this bed is very stiff and is bolted to a stand I had to shim under the stand foot.? I shimmed the right rear leg of the stand to a point that the right font stand foot was up in the air not touching the floor.? It took three months for the bed to finally give in and move.? A few more months and now I can cut a 8 inch long work piece with only .0005 taper this is? how its done. ? Now to the tail stock.? Once you have the bed straight and your not cutting a taper any longer now its time to tune the tail stock.? First if you have good dead centers put one in the tail stock barrel and one in the spindle.? Now move the tail stock close to the head stock so the points on the dead centers are almost touching.? Now looking down vertically see how far off the two points are. ?(If you don’t have a dead center for the spindle you can put a piece of stock in the chuck and cut a taper on it as this is the most accurate way of doing this procedure)? ?So by using the two screws on the side of the tail stock you can shift the top casting back and fourth on the bottom casting.? Do this till you? have the points of the centers as close as you get them.? Now look at the two centers on a horizontal plain and see if the tail stock point is high or low as to the dead center in the spindle.? It will be low I am almost certain of that.? So now you have to shim between the two tail stock castings to raise your dead center point in line with the dead center point in the spindle.? This gets you close enough that now you can mount a test indicator in the chuck and then sweep the inside of the tail stock barrel to further tune the tail stock.? With patents you can make old worn lathe cut accurately as well as the tail stock work as it should. ??If you accomplish these two items then I will go into more detail on the tail stock tuning but we can deal with that later.? ??Dennis ? Sent from for Windows ? From: Bryan Alton via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 1:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [DaltonLathes] Dalton Lot 2 Lathe Issues ? I have a Lot 2 Dalton Lathe, I posted a photo of it and some details at the time Lot 2 No 23, anyway I have now sorted a few items out namely mounted the lathe on a metal table and fixing the motor below and to the rear with the Pulley above to feed the Lathe. I had the motor fixed, the solenoid had broken, its now sorted. Now I'm at the point of turning metal so I've produced a few practise pieces and have found issues more important than say sorting out any backlash in the Slides. ? |
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Dennis, although I initially bolted the lathe down I found I could not move the leather drive belt between pullies without unbolting the lathe, I need to sort this bit out first, what would you think, change to a serpentine belt instead.
At least I'm not inducing a twist in the lathe bed by over tightening the anchor bolts, Ok, I need to anchor the lathe down again. My lathe table consists of a sheet of 25mm plywood bolted to a solid metal table frame ( the lathe came with a sheet of 20mm plate steel but without any holes to anchor the lathe down too but I gave that away thinking it was redundant). Anyway I need to anchor my lathe down again and correctly without inducing any twist infact to pull out any present twist. Let me get this bit sorted then. Bryan |
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Further to my previous correspondence on this subject you may note presently to move the belt across on my Lathe is by physically moving the Lathe back and forth, the Lathe package is incomplete. The Lathe’s previous owner operated it in the same manner, the Lathe came with a metal stand complete with a sheet of plate steel laid across the top to act as the table top (the plate steel was held in place by sheer weight, no holes in what so ever to hold the lathe in place or fasten the plate steel down) The electric motor was positioned off the end of the table on a side frame, the drive belt ran up to the countershaft mounted on two angle iron supports welded to the back of the stand. All I’ve done to the package since then is to move the motor under the table, moving across the shaft on the countershaft to accommodate the motor in it’s new location, lose the plate steel. I needed to move the motor out the way so the Lathe would fit in it’s new location at the back of my Garage (a tight squeeze). Initially I was totally unaware that the set up was minus a clutch mechanism to allow moving the belt across and re-tensioning because of my lack of any previous Engineering Experience.??I can now see something is required so if I am to modify the set up to take a clutch mechanism my thoughts would be to hang a frame hinged from roughly where I’ve recently hung the motor, fit both the motor and countershaft to that frame, fit a lever and locking mechanism to this so that I can release this move the belt across and re-tension by re-locking the mechanism again. Any thoughts, I can weld, not to a professional standard but presentable so I should be able put something together, any guidance would be welcome.? |
开云体育Picture would be most helpful.The old south bends solved this problem by mounting a motor and three stage pulley on a shaft attached to a hinged frame. This hung off the back of the lathe bed behind the headstock. A tensioning rod connects to the lathe and the motor mount to tighten the belt. The rod is jointed with ?a quick release handle in the middle. ?Flip the handle, break tension. Move the belt to select whatever speed you want. Retention and your good to go. (I hardly ever change speeds on my Dalton, as the work diameter of the radius of lathe is pretty limited.) I bolted one of these 9” SB hinged motor mounts, for my Lot 4 Dalton, directly to my table and made a ?vertical post, (also bolted to the tale)to anchor the tensioning rod.? Works very well. Glenn On Oct 10, 2021, at 12:38 PM, Bryan Alton via <bryanalton@...> wrote:
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On Oct 15, 2021, at 11:15 AM, Bryan Alton via <bryanalton@...> wrote:
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开云体育Bryan,Here are a couple more photos of my Dalton tensioning setup. Also shows a method I made up to level the bed. The dalton mounting casting is bolted to two lengths of 1/4” flat bar. ?The flat bar is bolted to the table and threaded somThe hex headed bolts protruding out of the flat bar allow front and back off the lathe ?to be raised or lowered individually, as needed, to take the twist out ?of the bed. ?The tailstock end is bolted solidily to table. ? On Oct 15, 2021, at 3:13 PM, glenn brooks <brooks.glenn@...> wrote:
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开云体育Grey Pilgrim,Much appreciate the kind words. ?The little tensioning post has worked out quite well. A bit overbuilt. But I like “Stout”, as a rule. Glenn? On Oct 16, 2021, at 7:13 PM, Grey Pilgrim via <pilgrim23@...> wrote:
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I now have a Countershaft Clutch Mechanism put together for my Lathe, nothing as elaborate as the one's I've seen attached to your Lathes but it should suffice. Now that's sorted I can level up and anchor the Lathe down and hopefully turn out some straight work. I've still a few washers to add and tightening up the Mechanism fully when I'm satisfied with it.
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开云体育Looks like you made good use of a very limited space. I find the custom made tool Tee slot fixture on the end of the cross slide.? I would imagine it was built to hold a parting tool.? Nice to see a very early Dalton with its back gear guards still? in place most get broken or lost usually broken.? ? From:
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bryan
Alton via groups.io ? [Edited Message Follows] I now have a Countershaft Clutch Mechanism put together for my Lathe, nothing as elaborate as the one's I've seen attached to your Lathes but it should suffice. Now that's sorted I can level up and anchor the Lathe down and hopefully turn out some straight work. I've still a few washers to add and tightening up the Mechanism fully when I'm satisfied with it. ? Here is a picture of the latest ?Turk works project.? Turns out that this lathe was built in the engineering prototype shop at SB in August of 1934.? This is a prototype of the1935 model 415 workshop lathe.? As Steve Wells has all the factory records about bed manufacturing it turns out that his lathe is one of only two built.? The bed did not make it to production though it’s a much better stronger more ridged bed than what the production model turned out to be.? Production model has one cross member between the bed rails this one has three. The saddle cross slide compound slide and apron came from the 1934? model 405 workshop lathe and is a full inch shorter than the production model machines just a few months later.? The tail stock is also a one of a kind and did not make it to production.? Seams the end door and head stock threading lead screw and lead screw mounts was about the only thing that was carried over to the production machine.? I found this lathe in Connecticut in 2002 and finally got around to do something with it.? I also have a late model Dalton Lot 4 with a 36 inch bed and on floor legs in the works also. ? Just last week I was able to acquire an original vintage age correct Furnace drum switch for the lathe.? The first Furnace drum switch was built in a man’s home shop in South Bend Indiana with the help of the twins who owned South Bend lathe.? This was in 1931 and in 1932 this switch was standard issue for the 1932 8? inch Jr. lathe.? It’s interesting in that I also have a Furnace drum switch made in the late 1990’s and other than a couple of very? minor details the switches are the same and parts interchange.? Speaks well of the original design as this switch has been in production for 90 years. ?The switch you see in the picture is the second generation switch.? The only thing that changed was a Furnace logo was added to the tag on the front of the switch.? The first ones made did not have the logo.? Steve Wells records show that the logo was added to the switch in he thinks 1934 or 35.? Just trivia here guys lathe history”-))))))
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Bryan Alton
Dennis Turk
glenn brooks
