A Dalton lathe in Italy
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Hi there,
my name is Andrea, I'm writing from Italy and I'm very pleased to have found such a huge place of information.
After a long time waiting for a good deal with a small lathe I eventually found an old Dalton (don't know yet if it's been really a good deal :-) ). The label on the train gears cover states "seven inches lathe" , no reference to the lot number at the right end of the rails where I can only see one number : 5066. I really can't understand what model is it. It seems to me a kind of Frankenstein, maybe you will recognize it from the pictures (don't mind the "stand" :-) ). On the apron there is the clutch knob but the lead screw doesn't have any key slot (also there is no worm gear) so it is useless...
As you will see in the pictures,?the lathe has been brutally abused during the years, it is missing several pieces...screws, gears, mandrel...part of the tail stock. Anyway I will try to restore it in order to bring it back to life even if this will be a very long process as I can work on it only in my spare time during the weekend and I have only this lathe to turn/create new pieces.
I don't know why the previous owner disassembled the lathe, maybe he wanted to start a restoration but he must have abandoned the idea after a while. In the meantime he lost some pieces :-(
Hope someone is able to tell what I bought. Thanks! Ciao Andrea ? |
开云体育That’s the same color my Dalton Lot 5 was painted. Odd, I always thought a previous owner had painted it that color.?Ryan Manchester, MA On Jan 27, 2022, at 12:07 PM, Dria72 via groups.io <andre.par@...> wrote:
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Well, I actually found at least three/four layers of different paint when started to disassemble and clean the lathe.
The first layer is black (japanning ? ) , then there is a thick layer of brown, than a light grey and at last the green. Scraping the change gear cover I found maybe the model of the lathe, the brass plate reports a generic seven inches lathe but there is actually another write hidden underside that claims TYPE B-4 (see picture for a better understanding). As you can see from the pictures, the tail stock is missing its back cover and the hand wheel as well so I guess should machining a new one. Does anybody has a picture or drawing of the missing piece (with dimensions would be great) ? Is there any bearing? Thanks, ciao Andrea |
开云体育Wonderful to see these lathes continue to turn up. ?A pre 1915 lathe suggests it saw service in the Great War. ?Dennis May know more...The black is almost certainly Japanning. ?Jappening in the context of early early day 1915 ?lathes was a mixture of linseed oil, small amount of kerosene as a solvent, and Asphaltium. ?Asphaltium is a mineral mined in those days in a few locations in the Western US. When mixed with kerosene and lindseed oil is was reduced by heating to a liquid then painted or sprayed on the surface and baked in an oven at just under 400* F. ?Repeat three times to build up the surface thickness, and you have a crystaline, non porous surface where the mineral content interlocks to seal against water intrusion. Hence a very effective rust inhibitor. Widely used for machine tool coatings and latter by Henry ford as an undercoater in his early day automobile factories. Glenn? On Jan 27, 2022, at 2:55 PM, Dria72 via <andre.par@...> wrote:
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开云体育Good Evening Andrea.? Must be as its 7 in the morning here in Oregon USA.? As to your Dalton yes it has the lot 5 apron with the clutch knob.? Its really odd that it does not have the lead screw without the keyway.? This tells me that your lathe maybe a mix of parts from different years or models.? No keyway means the lead screw came from a Lot 3 or 4 model. I will look over your photos more closely and see if I can help you.? Oh and you’re the first Dalton to show up in Italy so now we have Daltons in the UK, France the Netherlands, Canada, Australia and now Italy. ?Would we not like to know the stories your lathe could tell us in? how it made its way to Italy? ? Dennis ? ? Sent from for Windows ? From: Dria72 via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 9:07 AM To: DaltonLathes@groups.io Subject: [DaltonLathes] A Dalton lathe in Italy ? Hi there, this is the my first attempt in creating a new topic, hope I'm doing it correct. ? |
开云体育OK Andrea I have looked over? your photos more closely and here is what I have found. 1 have no idea of what the fitting on the left side of the apron is that looks like a tube over the lead screw. ?Looks to be some sort of a guard to keep chips off the lead screw. ? 2 it looks like you have a bronze front spindle bearing but the standard looking Babbitt bearing at the rear. ? 3 I see your missing all the spindle bearing cap? attaching screws. ? 4 Question what is the last patent date on your patent tag?? Should be 1922. ? 5 The cross slide dial ring is not a standard Dalton item and also there is a dial ring on the compound slide were as Dalton never had a dial ring on the compound on a Lot 2 3 4 or 5 lathe. ? 6 Looks like? your missing the screw in bushing and hand wheel for the tail stock as well as the woodruff key and attaching nut. ? 7 Question one the left rear saddle wing there is an odd looking fitting that is not something Dalton would have installed can you tell us what its for? ? 8 I see a fitting on the rear of the bed just below the back gear.? I assume this is a pivot point attachment for a counter shaft. ? 9 Also you mentioned that the gear on the end of the spindle was missing.? That gear is fit on assembly and if you look at your spindle you will see One a keyway and two half of a small screw thread.? When Dalton installed the gear on the spindle they then drilled and tapped between? the gear and the spindle and screwed in a small set screw or grub screw not knowing what Italians call them. The set screw was installed to lock the gear in place. ? The lathe looks to have seen heavy use in it s life.? Also some modifications as well as poor house keeping.? Original color would have been a semi gloss black japanned finish. ??I am including a photo of what your lathe looked like brand new.? Also a picture of the back side of the apron so you can see if you have all the parts to yours.? This is a model just like yours that was in like new condition when I found it and then restored it to original glory? ? Dalton offered different floor mounting bases for the lathe. A simple set of legs. A small cabinet leg under the head stock and a simple leg under the tail stock.? The deluxe cabinet that you see in the picture above.? They also made the lathe as a peddle lathe but that was not a very successful version as I have one and they are a devil to run. ? I hope this helps a little Andrea.? If you have any other questions? please ask I have a huge number of photos so can usually show you what you need to see.? Have a great evening Andrea.
Dennis ? Sent from for Windows ? From: Dennis Turk
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 7:35 AM To: DaltonLathes@groups.io Subject: Re: [DaltonLathes] A Dalton lathe in Italy ? Good Evening Andrea.? Must be as its 7 in the morning here in Oregon USA.? As to your Dalton yes it has the lot 5 apron with the clutch knob.? Its really odd that it does not have the lead screw without the keyway.? This tells me that your lathe maybe a mix of parts from different years or models.? No keyway means the lead screw came from a Lot 3 or 4 model. I will look over your photos more closely and see if I can help you.? Oh and you’re the first Dalton to show up in Italy so now we have Daltons in the UK, France the Netherlands, Canada, Australia and now Italy. ?Would we not like to know the stories your lathe could tell us in? how it made its way to Italy? ? Dennis ? ? Sent from for Windows ? From: Dria72 via groups.io ? Hi there, this is the my first attempt in creating a new topic, hope I'm doing it correct. ? ? |
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Hi,?
So I have a mixed lathe :-)? Thank you so much for your answers! I got to work on it these days... Here you are some more pictures and what you asked Dennis: 1 yes, that pipe seems a protection for the lead screw.? 2 actually both front and rear bearings are bronze, they look like have run without oil for a while...and maybe worse, someone fitted a greaser instead of oiler on the caps. The spindle seems to me in good shape . 3 unfortunately yes, all them are missing, I'll try to fit four allen head screws. 4 correct , the latest date is 1022 5 I took a couple of pictures of it disassembled 6 yes, my tail stock needs lot of pieces... My opinion is that the lead screw is not original, the thread at the back is metric (M8).
Andrea7 the odd thing is a bolt (seems a DIY solution) . There is a pass through hole threaded, the bolt pushes down against the lower plate that holds the saddle down on the way. I have a picture. 8 yes, it is the attachment for the counter shaft. For sure not original, the hinge for the change gears cover is welded on that attachment. 9 I don't see other than the key slot at the back of the spindle...could be also this changed during the past years? Who knows.? Thanks again and good night, here in Italy it's 10pm :-) |
开云体育Nice looking shop made front spindle bearing Andrea.? Also that dial ring tells me that the lathe is setup for metric am I correct.? If so check the threading lead screw it might also be? metric that maybe why there is no keyway in it as it may have come from some other small lathe. To our knowledge Dalton never made a metric version of there lathe.? I got a Lot 2 out of Holland years ago and it was still inch.? Oh that thing had been through two world wars and it had damage from explosives I could tell.? Boy was that old girl in sad shape. Makes yours like almost new? ? Sent from for Windows ? From: Dria72 via groups.io
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 1:28 PM To: DaltonLathes@groups.io Subject: Re: [DaltonLathes] A Dalton lathe in Italy ? Hi,? ? 6 yes, my tail stock needs lot of pieces... My opinion is that the lead screw is not original, the thread at the back is metric (M8). Andrea ? ? |
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Hi,
I got to work on the lathe...I finished disassembling and cleaning every single piece. To reply Dennis, mi apron is missing the worm gear and the casting supporting it. Also the split nut is different from the one in the picture you posted, in my case the thread is brass. Here two pictures of the back of the apron (before and after cleaning). About the threading lead screw I remembered well, it is imperial, 12 threads per inches. Andrea |
开云体育Hi Andrea ? As to the half nut what you’re looking at is a very well done repair job.? Dalton never made a set of half nuts with bronze inserts? but is a standard practice for repairing worn out threads in original half nut.? I have not done so but I know of one guy here in the US that actually does this all the time for people.?? I don’t think I? have any Lot 5 apron parts Andrea.? Lot 4 yes but no Lot 5.? You? would also need a keyway in the lead screw to power the worm if we had the parts.? Yes 12 pitch for the lead screw would be correct.? Lot 2 3 4 and 5 used the 12 pitch Lot 6 and Dalton 9 used 10 pitch and the really rare Dalton 10 inch used 8 pitch. Dennis ? From:
DaltonLathes@groups.io [mailto:DaltonLathes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dria72
via groups.io ? Hi, |
glenn brooks
Dennis Turk
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