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Re: Oldest Dalton has been found.
Not sure why the text was shown two times as I only sent it one time with the pictures.? DAN help:-)? Dennis
On Wednesday, January 6, 2021, 07:25:03 AM PST, Ron Peeler <ronaldpeeler@...> wrote:
Hi John
Are you in Connecticut?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of John Hinton via groups.io <johnhinton66@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 9:51 AM To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [DaltonLathes] Oldest Dalton has been found. ?
All,
I'm so glad to see these historical machines resurfacing! Ron, I totally agree with your plan to restore the machine. I recently completed a restore on an early Lot 4 with both the intent of preservation and hobby use. I also volunteer for the Mystic Seaport
Museum restoring / documenting early boats, ships and machinery. I have a suggestion on a museum we might reach out to as a group in an effort to see some of the
Dalton history preserved is in VT. The American Precision Museum has an amazing collection of early machines and tools, housed in a historic mill. Horace Smith was an apprentice here. Have a look and see what you think.
Respectfully,
John Hinton
On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 11:49:12 AM EST, Dennis Turk <dennis.turk2@...> wrote:
One other thing Ron that I find odd in your grandfathers Dalton.? The half nut is controlled by a large round knob rather than a lever that we see on all other Daltons.? Also notice you have the same spindle bearing oil cups that serial number
4 has and these are not what we see on later Daltons. I also see that the right side back gear guard has been damaged at some time and it has an odd way of securing it at the lower front of the head stock casting.? I see a hole in the guard casting and wonder
if at one time the guard was moved so it did? not rub on the back gear or the cone pulley.? Have seen Daltons were the guard had to be moved before.? I find one other odd feature on your lathe Ron and that is the front bed way back by the tail stock.? It looks
like the underside of the front bed way has been relieved just past the gear rack.? Never seen this before.? There is anti lift shoes under the saddle on both sides and the one on the right side would become ineffective once the saddle moves to the extrema
right end of the bed.? Also the spring clip that holds the end door closed we do not see on other early Lot 2 lathes but do on later Lot 3 a nd 4 lathes? One thing I will caution you about Ron is both ends of the bed were the threading lead screw mount bushings
are bolted on are very fragile and have seen any number of these broken usually from a fall.? Love this lathe:-))))
Dennis
On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 08:34:56 AM PST, Dennis Turk <dennis.turk2@...> wrote:
This is so odd that the two oldest Daltons show up about the same time.? I got my first one in 1998 and it took me to 2001 to find a second one that one being Andy Sargent of Cincinnati.? Your lathe is also the most complete Lot 2 we have seen.?
Yours is the very first one to have its original compound slide in tack and functional.? The compound slide on the Lot 2 was a real weak point and your lathe is a testament to being carefully used in the past as they were damaged so easily.? Speaks well of
your Grandfather. There is however a bit of a puzzle.? Your end door.? This is not like any of the end doors seen on the Lot 25 and my lot 36 as well as a later lot 2 parts lathe I have.? Actually we have seen three different end doors on the Lot 2 lathes.?
Your end door more resembles the end door on the Lot 3 and 4 lathes though smaller. Most Lot 2 lathes we have seen the end door is rounded at the bottom some fully enclosed some with a bit of an opening at the bottom.? Looks like they were really looking for
the correct look of the end door at this time.
As to the disposition of the lathe Ron that's up to you.? The Lot 2 I have is a bit more complete though modified by having a Atlas six inch lathe cross slide and compound slide installed on the saddle. We have seen South Bend and Atlas cross
slide and compound slides installed on Daltons in the past.? Its a shame we don't have a place to show this old history.? I have a number of machines of historical significance but the only place I know of is the Heritage museum in NJ I think.? I have several
lathes built before the Civil war and I really feel these need to be saved and displayed some were. Thanks you for the great description of your grandfathers lathe Ron.? Its not often we have such complete history.? I have one that I got from the son of the
original purchaser and one that I know were it was purchased but not who purchased it.? These two lathes are both Lot 6 models.? One from NY and one from Washington state.? One built in 1917 and one built in 1929.
Dennis
On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 06:41:25 AM PST, guy.gloor chesilton.com <guy.gloor@...> wrote:
Dear Dennis, ? If the lathe you saw is the oldest Dalton known, then I have the second oldest: Lot 2 serial number 5.? Like the one you describe it has the serial number stamped on the front bed way.? The photo is a few years old and taken just after it was removed from my father¡¯s basement prior to the sale of his house, so the lathe is a bit dusty.? I have cleaned it up a bit and can provide better pictures if you wish. ? I know quite a bit about the history of this lathe.? While I do not know the original owner, I do know that it was acquired sometime before 1930 by my Grandfather, Adolf G. (Gus) Frauenpreis of Elizabeth, and later Wyckoff NJ.? Mr. Frauenpreis was born in Stuttgart Germany, where he apprenticed as a tool and die maker.? In 1920 he came to America to pursue a career in the aviation industry.? In the 1920s he built and flew planes, gave flying lessons, worked as a machinist, and built an airfield in Clark, NJ on a bit of land which is now exit 135 of the Garden State Parkway.? From about 1931 to 1965 he worked as a machinist for Wright Aircraft in Fair Lawn NJ.? As a child (1960s) I spent a great deal of time at my grandfather¡¯s home and he had a pretty well equipped shop in his basement. ? Upon my grandfather¡¯s death in 1979, his tools went to my father, Albert Gloor of Ringwood NJ.? Although my father was a civil engineer, his father owned Hawthorne manufacturing, a machine shop in Hawthorne, NJ.? Growing up in the shop my father as well had a high level of skill as a machinist.? After my father passed away in 2014 the family¡¯s collection of tools was handed to my brother and myself. ? The lathe did not see much use while my father owned it.? We occasionally would turn some parts, a few times a year. ? The lathe is complete, including all of the change gears.? As far as I can tell the cross slide, compound, end cover and tailstock are all original, and appear to have the original finish.? The headstock bearings are excellent.? The ways are in pretty good shape, although I have not done any careful measurement of the wear. ?The leadscrews are quite worn and the compound spindle has some damage.? The tailstock has had a crack welded.? The backgear has a single slightly chipped tooth, but otherwise the drivetrain is complete and works.? The chuck in the picture is a WWII vintage Atlas chuck; I do not have the original chuck.? I also do not have, nor do I ever recall seeing, the cast iron legs and chip pan which would have accompanied the original machine.? The countershaft and support bracket is clearly not original, having modern pillow blocks. ? My original intent was to restore this to working order and use it.? Having done some research however I see that this lathe is both too fragile and too historically significant to put into normal service. ?It really should be restored to its original condition and kept as a museum piece. ?I would be interested in hearing your advice as to what I should do with it. ? Best regards and happy New Year, Guy ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Dennis Turk via groups.io ? Hi guys.? On? one of the Face book? user groups a guy came up with some pictures of a Dalton.? Turns out its a Lot 2 serial number 4.? That makes it the oldest Dalton known? of.? Its a much modified lathe unfortunately.?
Riser blocks have been put under the head stock and tail stock to make it a 9 inch lathe rather than the 6 inch it started out in life as.? It also has? a Lot 4 end door cross slide and compound slide.? Funny thing is its still in all its original finish.?
I will try and steal pictures of Facebook and post them if I can.? Also the lathe is so early that its has its lot and serial number stamped on the front bed way not the rear and is also stamped Lot 1 so this makes it a lathe that started out as the very first
ones built and then Dalton must have decided to call the combination machine Lot 1 and the first little 6 inch lathe Lot 2.? I would love to have gotten my hands on this little lathe unfortunately its in the hands of a rank beginner and he is only interested
in making parts with it and has no intentions of restoring it or bringing it back to its original condition.? |
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Re: Oldest Dalton has been found.
John back in 2015 my buddy and me did a trip from Oregon to York Pa and visited Cabin Fever model engineering show as that is one of my other hobbies.? We spent two weeks on the road and also took in the NAMEs model engineering show in Wyandot Michigan.? On this trip we wanted to go to the Museum you? mention but they did not open till June and the trip we made was in May.? I also have a number of other machines other than Dalton I would love to see exhibited there.? I have a number of machines that I? have restored from the mid to late 1800 one being a lathe I just finished that was built around 1845. I also have a pre 1850 Putnam and a pre civil war era Goodnow and Rightman lathe the only one known of.? I also have a wonderful original 1885 Boynton and Plumber shaper and I don't think the museum has one.? The only other one I? have seen is at the Ford museum in Detroit. I know of three others in private hands. So by all means if your in that area reach out to the museum and see if they are interested in some additional history.? I know its a large place and maybe they would have room for a small historical display of the Dalton Mfg company.? Picture included is of the 1845 Ames lathe I just finished other than the red pinstriping that was originally on the lathe.? The colors may seem a bit odd for something that old but that was what I found under some thick black paint that had been put on the lathe at some time in its history.? I was able to color match the two colors you see and was able to photograph the remints of the pinstriping.? I am also up for any help I can be on the restoration of serial number 4 and 5. First picture is of the 1845 Ames second the Boynton shaper third is the Goodnow and Rightman and the last two of the Putnam.? What I found really interesting was the fact that the Ames looks so modern compared to the other two lathes that are newer. Well other than the square tail stock barrel. One lathe I would love to see in there museum is my Lot 6 Dalton that is for the most part a brand new lathe built in 1917.? The lathe made three wood spokes for a carriage wheel and was never used again.? ?As you can see I am an uncurbable collector. Dennis
On Wednesday, January 6, 2021, 06:52:03 AM PST, John Hinton via groups.io <johnhinton66@...> wrote:
All, I'm so glad to see these historical machines resurfacing! Ron, I totally agree with your plan to restore the machine. I recently completed a restore on an early Lot 4 with both the intent of preservation and hobby use. I also volunteer for the Mystic Seaport Museum restoring / documenting early boats, ships and machinery. I have a suggestion on a museum we might reach out to as a group in an effort to see some of the Dalton history preserved is in VT. The American Precision Museum has an amazing collection of early machines and tools, housed in a historic mill. Horace Smith was an apprentice here. Have a look and see what you think. Respectfully, John Hinton
On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 11:49:12 AM EST, Dennis Turk <dennis.turk2@...> wrote:
One other thing Ron that I find odd in your grandfathers Dalton.? The half nut is controlled by a large round knob rather than a lever that we see on all other Daltons.? Also notice you have the same spindle bearing oil cups that serial number 4 has and these are not what we see on later Daltons. I also see that the right side back gear guard has been damaged at some time and it has an odd way of securing it at the lower front of the head stock casting.? I see a hole in the guard casting and wonder if at one time the guard was moved so it did? not rub on the back gear or the cone pulley.? Have seen Daltons were the guard had to be moved before.? I find one other odd feature on your lathe Ron and that is the front bed way back by the tail stock.? It looks like the underside of the front bed way has been relieved just past the gear rack.? Never seen this before.? There is anti lift shoes under the saddle on both sides and the one on the right side would become ineffective once the saddle moves to the extrema right end of the bed.? Also the spring clip that holds the end door closed we do not see on other early Lot 2 lathes but do on later Lot 3 a nd 4 lathes? One thing I will caution you about Ron is both ends of the bed were the threading lead screw mount bushings are bolted on are very fragile and have seen any number of these broken usually from a fall.? Love this lathe:-)))) Dennis
On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 08:34:56 AM PST, Dennis Turk <dennis.turk2@...> wrote:
This is so odd that the two oldest Daltons show up about the same time.? I got my first one in 1998 and it took me to 2001 to find a second one that one being Andy Sargent of Cincinnati.? Your lathe is also the most complete Lot 2 we have seen.? Yours is the very first one to have its original compound slide in tack and functional.? The compound slide on the Lot 2 was a real weak point and your lathe is a testament to being carefully used in the past as they were damaged so easily.? Speaks well of your Grandfather. There is however a bit of a puzzle.? Your end door.? This is not like any of the end doors seen on the Lot 25 and my lot 36 as well as a later lot 2 parts lathe I have.? Actually we have seen three different end doors on the Lot 2 lathes.? Your end door more resembles the end door on the Lot 3 and 4 lathes though smaller. Most Lot 2 lathes we have seen the end door is rounded at the bottom some fully enclosed some with a bit of an opening at the bottom.? Looks like they were really looking for the correct look of the end door at this time. As to the disposition of the lathe Ron that's up to you.? The Lot 2 I have is a bit more complete though modified by having a Atlas six inch lathe cross slide and compound slide installed on the saddle. We have seen South Bend and Atlas cross slide and compound slides installed on Daltons in the past.? Its a shame we don't have a place to show this old history.? I have a number of machines of historical significance but the only place I know of is the Heritage museum in NJ I think.? I have several lathes built before the Civil war and I really feel these need to be saved and displayed some were. Thanks you for the great description of your grandfathers lathe Ron.? Its not often we have such complete history.? I have one that I got from the son of the original purchaser and one that I know were it was purchased but not who purchased it.? These two lathes are both Lot 6 models.? One from NY and one from Washington state.? One built in 1917 and one built in 1929. Dennis
On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 06:41:25 AM PST, guy.gloor chesilton.com <guy.gloor@...> wrote:
Dear Dennis, ? If the lathe you saw is the oldest Dalton known, then I have the second oldest: Lot 2 serial number 5.? Like the one you describe it has the serial number stamped on the front bed way.? The photo is a few years old and taken just after it was removed from my father¡¯s basement prior to the sale of his house, so the lathe is a bit dusty.? I have cleaned it up a bit and can provide better pictures if you wish. ? I know quite a bit about the history of this lathe.? While I do not know the original owner, I do know that it was acquired sometime before 1930 by my Grandfather, Adolf G. (Gus) Frauenpreis of Elizabeth, and later Wyckoff NJ.? Mr. Frauenpreis was born in Stuttgart Germany, where he apprenticed as a tool and die maker.? In 1920 he came to America to pursue a career in the aviation industry.? In the 1920s he built and flew planes, gave flying lessons, worked as a machinist, and built an airfield in Clark, NJ on a bit of land which is now exit 135 of the Garden State Parkway.? From about 1931 to 1965 he worked as a machinist for Wright Aircraft in Fair Lawn NJ.? As a child (1960s) I spent a great deal of time at my grandfather¡¯s home and he had a pretty well equipped shop in his basement. ? Upon my grandfather¡¯s death in 1979, his tools went to my father, Albert Gloor of Ringwood NJ.? Although my father was a civil engineer, his father owned Hawthorne manufacturing, a machine shop in Hawthorne, NJ.? Growing up in the shop my father as well had a high level of skill as a machinist.? After my father passed away in 2014 the family¡¯s collection of tools was handed to my brother and myself. ? The lathe did not see much use while my father owned it.? We occasionally would turn some parts, a few times a year. ? The lathe is complete, including all of the change gears.? As far as I can tell the cross slide, compound, end cover and tailstock are all original, and appear to have the original finish.? The headstock bearings are excellent.? The ways are in pretty good shape, although I have not done any careful measurement of the wear. ?The leadscrews are quite worn and the compound spindle has some damage.? The tailstock has had a crack welded.? The backgear has a single slightly chipped tooth, but otherwise the drivetrain is complete and works.? The chuck in the picture is a WWII vintage Atlas chuck; I do not have the original chuck.? I also do not have, nor do I ever recall seeing, the cast iron legs and chip pan which would have accompanied the original machine.? The countershaft and support bracket is clearly not original, having modern pillow blocks. ? My original intent was to restore this to working order and use it.? Having done some research however I see that this lathe is both too fragile and too historically significant to put into normal service. ?It really should be restored to its original condition and kept as a museum piece. ?I would be interested in hearing your advice as to what I should do with it. ? Best regards and happy New Year, Guy ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Dennis Turk via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 7:39 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [DaltonLathes] Oldest Dalton has been found. ? Hi guys.? On? one of the Face book? user groups a guy came up with some pictures of a Dalton.? Turns out its a Lot 2 serial number 4.? That makes it the oldest Dalton known? of.? Its a much modified lathe unfortunately.? Riser blocks have
been put under the head stock and tail stock to make it a 9 inch lathe rather than the 6 inch it started out in life as.? It also has? a Lot 4 end door cross slide and compound slide.? Funny thing is its still in all its original finish.? I will try and steal
pictures of Facebook and post them if I can.? Also the lathe is so early that its has its lot and serial number stamped on the front bed way not the rear and is also stamped Lot 1 so this makes it a lathe that started out as the very first ones built and then
Dalton must have decided to call the combination machine Lot 1 and the first little 6 inch lathe Lot 2.? I would love to have gotten my hands on this little lathe unfortunately its in the hands of a rank beginner and he is only interested in making parts with
it and has no intentions of restoring it or bringing it back to its original condition.? |
|
Re: Oldest Dalton has been found.
All, I'm so glad to see these historical machines resurfacing! Ron, I totally agree with your plan to restore the machine. I recently completed a restore on an early Lot 4 with both the intent of preservation and hobby use. I also volunteer for the Mystic Seaport Museum restoring / documenting early boats, ships and machinery. I have a suggestion on a museum we might reach out to as a group in an effort to see some of the Dalton history preserved is in VT. The American Precision Museum has an amazing collection of early machines and tools, housed in a historic mill. Horace Smith was an apprentice here. Have a look and see what you think. Respectfully, John Hinton
On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 11:49:12 AM EST, Dennis Turk <dennis.turk2@...> wrote:
One other thing Ron that I find odd in your grandfathers Dalton.? The half nut is controlled by a large round knob rather than a lever that we see on all other Daltons.? Also notice you have the same spindle bearing oil cups that serial number 4 has and these are not what we see on later Daltons. I also see that the right side back gear guard has been damaged at some time and it has an odd way of securing it at the lower front of the head stock casting.? I see a hole in the guard casting and wonder if at one time the guard was moved so it did? not rub on the back gear or the cone pulley.? Have seen Daltons were the guard had to be moved before.? I find one other odd feature on your lathe Ron and that is the front bed way back by the tail stock.? It looks like the underside of the front bed way has been relieved just past the gear rack.? Never seen this before.? There is anti lift shoes under the saddle on both sides and the one on the right side would become ineffective once the saddle moves to the extrema right end of the bed.? Also the spring clip that holds the end door closed we do not see on other early Lot 2 lathes but do on later Lot 3 a nd 4 lathes? One thing I will caution you about Ron is both ends of the bed were the threading lead screw mount bushings are bolted on are very fragile and have seen any number of these broken usually from a fall.? Love this lathe:-)))) Dennis
On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 08:34:56 AM PST, Dennis Turk <dennis.turk2@...> wrote:
This is so odd that the two oldest Daltons show up about the same time.? I got my first one in 1998 and it took me to 2001 to find a second one that one being Andy Sargent of Cincinnati.? Your lathe is also the most complete Lot 2 we have seen.? Yours is the very first one to have its original compound slide in tack and functional.? The compound slide on the Lot 2 was a real weak point and your lathe is a testament to being carefully used in the past as they were damaged so easily.? Speaks well of your Grandfather. There is however a bit of a puzzle.? Your end door.? This is not like any of the end doors seen on the Lot 25 and my lot 36 as well as a later lot 2 parts lathe I have.? Actually we have seen three different end doors on the Lot 2 lathes.? Your end door more resembles the end door on the Lot 3 and 4 lathes though smaller. Most Lot 2 lathes we have seen the end door is rounded at the bottom some fully enclosed some with a bit of an opening at the bottom.? Looks like they were really looking for the correct look of the end door at this time. As to the disposition of the lathe Ron that's up to you.? The Lot 2 I have is a bit more complete though modified by having a Atlas six inch lathe cross slide and compound slide installed on the saddle. We have seen South Bend and Atlas cross slide and compound slides installed on Daltons in the past.? Its a shame we don't have a place to show this old history.? I have a number of machines of historical significance but the only place I know of is the Heritage museum in NJ I think.? I have several lathes built before the Civil war and I really feel these need to be saved and displayed some were. Thanks you for the great description of your grandfathers lathe Ron.? Its not often we have such complete history.? I have one that I got from the son of the original purchaser and one that I know were it was purchased but not who purchased it.? These two lathes are both Lot 6 models.? One from NY and one from Washington state.? One built in 1917 and one built in 1929. Dennis
On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 06:41:25 AM PST, guy.gloor chesilton.com <guy.gloor@...> wrote:
Dear Dennis, ? If the lathe you saw is the oldest Dalton known, then I have the second oldest: Lot 2 serial number 5.? Like the one you describe it has the serial number stamped on the front bed way.? The photo is a few years old and taken just after it was removed from my father¡¯s basement prior to the sale of his house, so the lathe is a bit dusty.? I have cleaned it up a bit and can provide better pictures if you wish. ? I know quite a bit about the history of this lathe.? While I do not know the original owner, I do know that it was acquired sometime before 1930 by my Grandfather, Adolf G. (Gus) Frauenpreis of Elizabeth, and later Wyckoff NJ.? Mr. Frauenpreis was born in Stuttgart Germany, where he apprenticed as a tool and die maker.? In 1920 he came to America to pursue a career in the aviation industry.? In the 1920s he built and flew planes, gave flying lessons, worked as a machinist, and built an airfield in Clark, NJ on a bit of land which is now exit 135 of the Garden State Parkway.? From about 1931 to 1965 he worked as a machinist for Wright Aircraft in Fair Lawn NJ.? As a child (1960s) I spent a great deal of time at my grandfather¡¯s home and he had a pretty well equipped shop in his basement. ? Upon my grandfather¡¯s death in 1979, his tools went to my father, Albert Gloor of Ringwood NJ.? Although my father was a civil engineer, his father owned Hawthorne manufacturing, a machine shop in Hawthorne, NJ.? Growing up in the shop my father as well had a high level of skill as a machinist.? After my father passed away in 2014 the family¡¯s collection of tools was handed to my brother and myself. ? The lathe did not see much use while my father owned it.? We occasionally would turn some parts, a few times a year. ? The lathe is complete, including all of the change gears.? As far as I can tell the cross slide, compound, end cover and tailstock are all original, and appear to have the original finish.? The headstock bearings are excellent.? The ways are in pretty good shape, although I have not done any careful measurement of the wear. ?The leadscrews are quite worn and the compound spindle has some damage.? The tailstock has had a crack welded.? The backgear has a single slightly chipped tooth, but otherwise the drivetrain is complete and works.? The chuck in the picture is a WWII vintage Atlas chuck; I do not have the original chuck.? I also do not have, nor do I ever recall seeing, the cast iron legs and chip pan which would have accompanied the original machine.? The countershaft and support bracket is clearly not original, having modern pillow blocks. ? My original intent was to restore this to working order and use it.? Having done some research however I see that this lathe is both too fragile and too historically significant to put into normal service. ?It really should be restored to its original condition and kept as a museum piece. ?I would be interested in hearing your advice as to what I should do with it. ? Best regards and happy New Year, Guy ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Dennis Turk via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 7:39 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [DaltonLathes] Oldest Dalton has been found. ? Hi guys.? On? one of the Face book? user groups a guy came up with some pictures of a Dalton.? Turns out its a Lot 2 serial number 4.? That makes it the oldest Dalton known? of.? Its a much modified lathe unfortunately.? Riser blocks have
been put under the head stock and tail stock to make it a 9 inch lathe rather than the 6 inch it started out in life as.? It also has? a Lot 4 end door cross slide and compound slide.? Funny thing is its still in all its original finish.? I will try and steal
pictures of Facebook and post them if I can.? Also the lathe is so early that its has its lot and serial number stamped on the front bed way not the rear and is also stamped Lot 1 so this makes it a lathe that started out as the very first ones built and then
Dalton must have decided to call the combination machine Lot 1 and the first little 6 inch lathe Lot 2.? I would love to have gotten my hands on this little lathe unfortunately its in the hands of a rank beginner and he is only interested in making parts with
it and has no intentions of restoring it or bringing it back to its original condition.? |
|
Re: Oldest Dalton has been found.
One other thing Ron that I find odd in your grandfathers Dalton.? The half nut is controlled by a large round knob rather than a lever that we see on all other Daltons.? Also notice you have the same spindle bearing oil cups that serial number 4 has and these are not what we see on later Daltons. I also see that the right side back gear guard has been damaged at some time and it has an odd way of securing it at the lower front of the head stock casting.? I see a hole in the guard casting and wonder if at one time the guard was moved so it did? not rub on the back gear or the cone pulley.? Have seen Daltons were the guard had to be moved before.? I find one other odd feature on your lathe Ron and that is the front bed way back by the tail stock.? It looks like the underside of the front bed way has been relieved just past the gear rack.? Never seen this before.? There is anti lift shoes under the saddle on both sides and the one on the right side would become ineffective once the saddle moves to the extrema right end of the bed.? Also the spring clip that holds the end door closed we do not see on other early Lot 2 lathes but do on later Lot 3 a nd 4 lathes? One thing I will caution you about Ron is both ends of the bed were the threading lead screw mount bushings are bolted on are very fragile and have seen any number of these broken usually from a fall.? Love this lathe:-)))) Dennis
On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 08:34:56 AM PST, Dennis Turk <dennis.turk2@...> wrote:
This is so odd that the two oldest Daltons show up about the same time.? I got my first one in 1998 and it took me to 2001 to find a second one that one being Andy Sargent of Cincinnati.? Your lathe is also the most complete Lot 2 we have seen.? Yours is the very first one to have its original compound slide in tack and functional.? The compound slide on the Lot 2 was a real weak point and your lathe is a testament to being carefully used in the past as they were damaged so easily.? Speaks well of your Grandfather. There is however a bit of a puzzle.? Your end door.? This is not like any of the end doors seen on the Lot 25 and my lot 36 as well as a later lot 2 parts lathe I have.? Actually we have seen three different end doors on the Lot 2 lathes.? Your end door more resembles the end door on the Lot 3 and 4 lathes though smaller. Most Lot 2 lathes we have seen the end door is rounded at the bottom some fully enclosed some with a bit of an opening at the bottom.? Looks like they were really looking for the correct look of the end door at this time. As to the disposition of the lathe Ron that's up to you.? The Lot 2 I have is a bit more complete though modified by having a Atlas six inch lathe cross slide and compound slide installed on the saddle. We have seen South Bend and Atlas cross slide and compound slides installed on Daltons in the past.? Its a shame we don't have a place to show this old history.? I have a number of machines of historical significance but the only place I know of is the Heritage museum in NJ I think.? I have several lathes built before the Civil war and I really feel these need to be saved and displayed some were. Thanks you for the great description of your grandfathers lathe Ron.? Its not often we have such complete history.? I have one that I got from the son of the original purchaser and one that I know were it was purchased but not who purchased it.? These two lathes are both Lot 6 models.? One from NY and one from Washington state.? One built in 1917 and one built in 1929. Dennis
On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 06:41:25 AM PST, guy.gloor chesilton.com <guy.gloor@...> wrote:
Dear Dennis, ? If the lathe you saw is the oldest Dalton known, then I have the second oldest: Lot 2 serial number 5.? Like the one you describe it has the serial number stamped on the front bed way.? The photo is a few years old and taken just after it was removed from my father¡¯s basement prior to the sale of his house, so the lathe is a bit dusty.? I have cleaned it up a bit and can provide better pictures if you wish. ? I know quite a bit about the history of this lathe.? While I do not know the original owner, I do know that it was acquired sometime before 1930 by my Grandfather, Adolf G. (Gus) Frauenpreis of Elizabeth, and later Wyckoff NJ.? Mr. Frauenpreis was born in Stuttgart Germany, where he apprenticed as a tool and die maker.? In 1920 he came to America to pursue a career in the aviation industry.? In the 1920s he built and flew planes, gave flying lessons, worked as a machinist, and built an airfield in Clark, NJ on a bit of land which is now exit 135 of the Garden State Parkway.? From about 1931 to 1965 he worked as a machinist for Wright Aircraft in Fair Lawn NJ.? As a child (1960s) I spent a great deal of time at my grandfather¡¯s home and he had a pretty well equipped shop in his basement. ? Upon my grandfather¡¯s death in 1979, his tools went to my father, Albert Gloor of Ringwood NJ.? Although my father was a civil engineer, his father owned Hawthorne manufacturing, a machine shop in Hawthorne, NJ.? Growing up in the shop my father as well had a high level of skill as a machinist.? After my father passed away in 2014 the family¡¯s collection of tools was handed to my brother and myself. ? The lathe did not see much use while my father owned it.? We occasionally would turn some parts, a few times a year. ? The lathe is complete, including all of the change gears.? As far as I can tell the cross slide, compound, end cover and tailstock are all original, and appear to have the original finish.? The headstock bearings are excellent.? The ways are in pretty good shape, although I have not done any careful measurement of the wear. ?The leadscrews are quite worn and the compound spindle has some damage.? The tailstock has had a crack welded.? The backgear has a single slightly chipped tooth, but otherwise the drivetrain is complete and works.? The chuck in the picture is a WWII vintage Atlas chuck; I do not have the original chuck.? I also do not have, nor do I ever recall seeing, the cast iron legs and chip pan which would have accompanied the original machine.? The countershaft and support bracket is clearly not original, having modern pillow blocks. ? My original intent was to restore this to working order and use it.? Having done some research however I see that this lathe is both too fragile and too historically significant to put into normal service. ?It really should be restored to its original condition and kept as a museum piece. ?I would be interested in hearing your advice as to what I should do with it. ? Best regards and happy New Year, Guy ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Dennis Turk via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 7:39 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [DaltonLathes] Oldest Dalton has been found. ? Hi guys.? On? one of the Face book? user groups a guy came up with some pictures of a Dalton.? Turns out its a Lot 2 serial number 4.? That makes it the oldest Dalton known? of.? Its a much modified lathe unfortunately.? Riser blocks have
been put under the head stock and tail stock to make it a 9 inch lathe rather than the 6 inch it started out in life as.? It also has? a Lot 4 end door cross slide and compound slide.? Funny thing is its still in all its original finish.? I will try and steal
pictures of Facebook and post them if I can.? Also the lathe is so early that its has its lot and serial number stamped on the front bed way not the rear and is also stamped Lot 1 so this makes it a lathe that started out as the very first ones built and then
Dalton must have decided to call the combination machine Lot 1 and the first little 6 inch lathe Lot 2.? I would love to have gotten my hands on this little lathe unfortunately its in the hands of a rank beginner and he is only interested in making parts with
it and has no intentions of restoring it or bringing it back to its original condition.? |
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Re: Oldest Dalton has been found.
This is so odd that the two oldest Daltons show up about the same time.? I got my first one in 1998 and it took me to 2001 to find a second one that one being Andy Sargent of Cincinnati.? Your lathe is also the most complete Lot 2 we have seen.? Yours is the very first one to have its original compound slide in tack and functional.? The compound slide on the Lot 2 was a real weak point and your lathe is a testament to being carefully used in the past as they were damaged so easily.? Speaks well of your Grandfather. There is however a bit of a puzzle.? Your end door.? This is not like any of the end doors seen on the Lot 25 and my lot 36 as well as a later lot 2 parts lathe I have.? Actually we have seen three different end doors on the Lot 2 lathes.? Your end door more resembles the end door on the Lot 3 and 4 lathes though smaller. Most Lot 2 lathes we have seen the end door is rounded at the bottom some fully enclosed some with a bit of an opening at the bottom.? Looks like they were really looking for the correct look of the end door at this time. As to the disposition of the lathe Ron that's up to you.? The Lot 2 I have is a bit more complete though modified by having a Atlas six inch lathe cross slide and compound slide installed on the saddle. We have seen South Bend and Atlas cross slide and compound slides installed on Daltons in the past.? Its a shame we don't have a place to show this old history.? I have a number of machines of historical significance but the only place I know of is the Heritage museum in NJ I think.? I have several lathes built before the Civil war and I really feel these need to be saved and displayed some were. Thanks you for the great description of your grandfathers lathe Ron.? Its not often we have such complete history.? I have one that I got from the son of the original purchaser and one that I know were it was purchased but not who purchased it.? These two lathes are both Lot 6 models.? One from NY and one from Washington state.? One built in 1917 and one built in 1929. Dennis
On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 06:41:25 AM PST, guy.gloor chesilton.com <guy.gloor@...> wrote:
Dear Dennis, ? If the lathe you saw is the oldest Dalton known, then I have the second oldest: Lot 2 serial number 5.? Like the one you describe it has the serial number stamped on the front bed way.? The photo is a few years old and taken just after it was removed from my father¡¯s basement prior to the sale of his house, so the lathe is a bit dusty.? I have cleaned it up a bit and can provide better pictures if you wish. ? I know quite a bit about the history of this lathe.? While I do not know the original owner, I do know that it was acquired sometime before 1930 by my Grandfather, Adolf G. (Gus) Frauenpreis of Elizabeth, and later Wyckoff NJ.? Mr. Frauenpreis was born in Stuttgart Germany, where he apprenticed as a tool and die maker.? In 1920 he came to America to pursue a career in the aviation industry.? In the 1920s he built and flew planes, gave flying lessons, worked as a machinist, and built an airfield in Clark, NJ on a bit of land which is now exit 135 of the Garden State Parkway.? From about 1931 to 1965 he worked as a machinist for Wright Aircraft in Fair Lawn NJ.? As a child (1960s) I spent a great deal of time at my grandfather¡¯s home and he had a pretty well equipped shop in his basement. ? Upon my grandfather¡¯s death in 1979, his tools went to my father, Albert Gloor of Ringwood NJ.? Although my father was a civil engineer, his father owned Hawthorne manufacturing, a machine shop in Hawthorne, NJ.? Growing up in the shop my father as well had a high level of skill as a machinist.? After my father passed away in 2014 the family¡¯s collection of tools was handed to my brother and myself. ? The lathe did not see much use while my father owned it.? We occasionally would turn some parts, a few times a year. ? The lathe is complete, including all of the change gears.? As far as I can tell the cross slide, compound, end cover and tailstock are all original, and appear to have the original finish.? The headstock bearings are excellent.? The ways are in pretty good shape, although I have not done any careful measurement of the wear. ?The leadscrews are quite worn and the compound spindle has some damage.? The tailstock has had a crack welded.? The backgear has a single slightly chipped tooth, but otherwise the drivetrain is complete and works.? The chuck in the picture is a WWII vintage Atlas chuck; I do not have the original chuck.? I also do not have, nor do I ever recall seeing, the cast iron legs and chip pan which would have accompanied the original machine.? The countershaft and support bracket is clearly not original, having modern pillow blocks. ? My original intent was to restore this to working order and use it.? Having done some research however I see that this lathe is both too fragile and too historically significant to put into normal service. ?It really should be restored to its original condition and kept as a museum piece. ?I would be interested in hearing your advice as to what I should do with it. ? Best regards and happy New Year, Guy ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Dennis Turk via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 7:39 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [DaltonLathes] Oldest Dalton has been found. ? Hi guys.? On? one of the Face book? user groups a guy came up with some pictures of a Dalton.? Turns out its a Lot 2 serial number 4.? That makes it the oldest Dalton known? of.? Its a much modified lathe unfortunately.? Riser blocks have
been put under the head stock and tail stock to make it a 9 inch lathe rather than the 6 inch it started out in life as.? It also has? a Lot 4 end door cross slide and compound slide.? Funny thing is its still in all its original finish.? I will try and steal
pictures of Facebook and post them if I can.? Also the lathe is so early that its has its lot and serial number stamped on the front bed way not the rear and is also stamped Lot 1 so this makes it a lathe that started out as the very first ones built and then
Dalton must have decided to call the combination machine Lot 1 and the first little 6 inch lathe Lot 2.? I would love to have gotten my hands on this little lathe unfortunately its in the hands of a rank beginner and he is only interested in making parts with
it and has no intentions of restoring it or bringing it back to its original condition.? |
|
Re: Oldest Dalton has been found.
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýDear Dennis, ? If the lathe you saw is the oldest Dalton known, then I have the second oldest: Lot 2 serial number 5.? Like the one you describe it has the serial number stamped on the front bed way.? The photo is a few years old and taken just after it was removed from my father¡¯s basement prior to the sale of his house, so the lathe is a bit dusty.? I have cleaned it up a bit and can provide better pictures if you wish. ? I know quite a bit about the history of this lathe.? While I do not know the original owner, I do know that it was acquired sometime before 1930 by my Grandfather, Adolf G. (Gus) Frauenpreis of Elizabeth, and later Wyckoff NJ.? Mr. Frauenpreis was born in Stuttgart Germany, where he apprenticed as a tool and die maker.? In 1920 he came to America to pursue a career in the aviation industry.? In the 1920s he built and flew planes, gave flying lessons, worked as a machinist, and built an airfield in Clark, NJ on a bit of land which is now exit 135 of the Garden State Parkway.? From about 1931 to 1965 he worked as a machinist for Wright Aircraft in Fair Lawn NJ.? As a child (1960s) I spent a great deal of time at my grandfather¡¯s home and he had a pretty well equipped shop in his basement. ? Upon my grandfather¡¯s death in 1979, his tools went to my father, Albert Gloor of Ringwood NJ.? Although my father was a civil engineer, his father owned Hawthorne manufacturing, a machine shop in Hawthorne, NJ.? Growing up in the shop my father as well had a high level of skill as a machinist.? After my father passed away in 2014 the family¡¯s collection of tools was handed to my brother and myself. ? The lathe did not see much use while my father owned it.? We occasionally would turn some parts, a few times a year. ? The lathe is complete, including all of the change gears.? As far as I can tell the cross slide, compound, end cover and tailstock are all original, and appear to have the original finish.? The headstock bearings are excellent.? The ways are in pretty good shape, although I have not done any careful measurement of the wear. ?The leadscrews are quite worn and the compound spindle has some damage.? The tailstock has had a crack welded.? The backgear has a single slightly chipped tooth, but otherwise the drivetrain is complete and works.? The chuck in the picture is a WWII vintage Atlas chuck; I do not have the original chuck.? I also do not have, nor do I ever recall seeing, the cast iron legs and chip pan which would have accompanied the original machine.? The countershaft and support bracket is clearly not original, having modern pillow blocks. ? My original intent was to restore this to working order and use it.? Having done some research however I see that this lathe is both too fragile and too historically significant to put into normal service. ?It really should be restored to its original condition and kept as a museum piece. ?I would be interested in hearing your advice as to what I should do with it. ? Best regards and happy New Year, Guy ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Dennis Turk via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 7:39 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [DaltonLathes] Oldest Dalton has been found. ? Hi guys.? On? one of the Face book? user groups a guy came up with some pictures of a Dalton.? Turns out its a Lot 2 serial number 4.? That makes it the oldest Dalton known? of.? Its a much modified lathe unfortunately.? Riser blocks have
been put under the head stock and tail stock to make it a 9 inch lathe rather than the 6 inch it started out in life as.? It also has? a Lot 4 end door cross slide and compound slide.? Funny thing is its still in all its original finish.? I will try and steal
pictures of Facebook and post them if I can.? Also the lathe is so early that its has its lot and serial number stamped on the front bed way not the rear and is also stamped Lot 1 so this makes it a lathe that started out as the very first ones built and then
Dalton must have decided to call the combination machine Lot 1 and the first little 6 inch lathe Lot 2.? I would love to have gotten my hands on this little lathe unfortunately its in the hands of a rank beginner and he is only interested in making parts with
it and has no intentions of restoring it or bringing it back to its original condition.? |
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For Sale: Dalton Six Type B-4
#DaltonLathes
#DaltonLatheGroup
Dan Malsom
I was told this is a 1917, the saddle and crosslide and everything move smoothly and seem to be not heavily worn.? There is not alot of backlash on the handles and there is no wear grooves in the beginning of the bed. it runs and comes with a handful of the change gears which i guess are impossible to find anywhere!! 3-jaw chuck operates smoothly. Lakeville, MN. (10 minutes south of the Mall of America) $750 |
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Re: lathe
Pictures, please, Norm !!!? ?:) On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 3:28 PM <clockcangey61@...> wrote:
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Dan & Jeanne Linscheid Salem, OR |
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Re: Oldest Dalton has been found.
Hi Terry As to small mills there are a few to choose from.? In the table top verity the mill drill machine is not a bad start though I don't like them but they have been around since the early 70's and so there are a lot of used ones out there.? In small floor models the Rockwell 2100 series is a good bet especially if you can find one that also has the horizontal spindle as well as the vertical.? The small Clausing and Millright are also very good small mills in the floor model kind.? ?There was a very small mill built for years and that is the Benchmaster.? Very small mill offered in a vertical as well as a horizontal model.? These are even smaller than the Atlas horizontal mill that again I don't like and consider them a pile of junk though they will make small parts.? Sold one of the Atlas mills this last summer that was just like new with all the accessories.? ?To bad you live so far away as I have a Benchmaster that is still in the crate but shipping would be a killer.? Picture is of my Delta Rockwell 2100 mill I restored from a rusty pile of missing parts that had sat in a front yard with a tarp over it for five years so you know what it looked like.? This thing was really bad and took a lot of work to bring it back to what you see in the photo.? Like six months of work.? Hardest part was finding some of the missing parts that would normally never be missing. Some I had to make like the quill down feed shaft with gear and the down feed clutch parts.? modified the lead screw and end lead screw support casting and installed a Servo style power feed then also a Dro Pros digital.? Had to have the motor re-wound and had it done in inverter service and now run the mill with a VFD. In the import small floor models there is what we called the 8 - 30.? These again have been around since the early 70's and were built in Taiwan and are a fairly good mill.? They are still sold by Jet Grizzly and others though they are really expensive in new models today.? When these came out you could get a new one for less than $1000.? ?One of these days I have a friend that is now 90 years old and many years ago I built him from a freight damaged mill a very nice vertical horizontal mill that he has really never used other than a drill press.? Its going to come up for sale one of these days and I will keep you guys posted when it does.? He also has a really neat 12 by 24 small gear head lathe that I also did a lot of work on that will make someone a great home shop lathes some day.? Dennis
On Saturday, January 2, 2021, 08:28:39 AM PST, John Hinton via groups.io <johnhinton66@...> wrote:
Terry, It took me three years to find just what you're looking for. I stumbled across a 1942 BC Ames horizontal mill that somebody mounted a Bridgeport C-head on. Picked it up a year ago for $700. A little clean up / set up and I was making chips! The challenge is finding the old machines like this in the first place. Condition would obviously be a factor too. I'm always watching Craigslist, etc. both in New England and central Florida for quality home shop machines. I'm sure myself and others in the group would be happy to let you know if there's anything out there. Enjoy! John H Montville, CT On Friday, January 1, 2021, 08:22:08 PM EST, flhd1340 via groups.io <flhd1340@...> wrote: Hello Dennis? Terry here from St.Pete Florida --Beautiful job you did on that SB. My Dalton is still purring away and always doing something with it every day greatest thing since sliced bread---have not installed the pully system yet that I got from you awhile back but will get to it I hope soon--- Have a question about Vertical Mills--- I am looking for a small one ( Older Style like 1940's to 1960's maybe) was there anything small made back then that I could look for ? Will most likely be just Milling brass/copper/Alu./Mild Steel.? As I said? ? ? " Small " since my 1925 garage is not that big and since I retired throwing things out but every time I go in my garage I see no difference LOL . Hope you can give me some ideas . |
Dennis Turk
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Dan Linscheid
