|
I¡¯m great full that this group exist! I was given a pair of DQ10 speaker. The owner was going to throw then away. I hooked them up and they work. They still sounded worth saving even with incorrect blow woofers and mix matched tweeters. Someone also spray painted most of it black. The screens are in good shape. I am going to rebuild the woofer enclosure, thanks to the schematics in this group. I¡¯m looking at purchasing new woofers and tweeters and rewire both speakers. I would like guidance from the experts. Thank you in advance.
|
Yours are one of the oldest pairs I've seen to judge by what I can tell past the dust and paint. The dusky orange dustcap on the Philips AD5060 means below serial number ~1200, the two piece brackets for the baffles below sn 1000, the smaller 10" woofer of the units below sn 1000, the cap above the L3 inductor rather than moved down beside it means below sn ~500...yeah, early. There are a couple of resistors missing that would be present in the first two hundred units, but the first service bulletin that went out in Dec 73 recommended those be removed. So, yours might be one of those early pairs with the mod. The mirror imaging doesn't rule that out as that was a favored modification done and instructions were distributed for it when it became a factory thing around sn 29093. I'm leaning that way because your crossover boards don't look like masonite. I've heard in passing that that first expanded run used circuit board material (epoxy resin or phenolic) before running out and switching to wax dipped masonite. Unfortunately, sussing out specifics about the crossovers of the sub-1000 sn models has been difficult, so I can't say. Be really curious how the schematic for yours would look like. Shame the tweeter baffles are missing. The first couple of years production used tags that actually stuck (unlike the later paper tags that fell off more often than not) and it would've been interesting to see what the actual serial numbers for yours are.
?
Anyways, the units below serial number 1000 used a 10" CTS woofer originally (of a model number I've not yet been able to locate unfortunately) rather than the Advent woofer with the 12" frame (same size cone) of the later models. The crossover also had several revisions of varying significance. You'll have to decide if you to try to rebuild these as original or make a copy of the later DQ-10s out of the parts you have there (not much more effort since you're already looking at rebuilding the enclosure).
|
Jon, thank you for all the information. I will try to make them as original as possible. Question about the tweeters, I need to purchase replacements. Where and what are my questions? Then I will search for woofers, 10s in 12¡± frame.
I¡¯m beginning the restoration with cleaning and removing as much paint as I can then replace wires, color and gauge correct where needed. I will start checking crossover components confirming condition and whether they meet spec. I will lastly tackle the woofer box rebuild and stripping metal brackets and repainting. I also need to build stands.
|
You might be better served just buying another set in better shape off of eBay I was able to buy two sets for about 350 each. I redid call crossovers with clarity caps and mills resistors from madisound.?
I have my second set all re-done with the crossovers new Waterford screen stem simply speakers and everything looks good sounds good and I put them up for sale in craigslist Baltimore. I also have an extra set of yellow Original crossovers and three extra boards with Twitter and other driver on that board and also one of the subwoofer and if he¡¯s electric bored I have to look but I have two of one of those upper boards and one of the other I also have some re-phone woofers from simply speakers oh. Looking at your crossovers it looks like yours are simply filthy
Jon, thank you for all the information. I will try to make them as original as possible. Question about the tweeters, I need to purchase replacements. Where and what are my questions? Then I will search for woofers, 10s in 12¡± frame.
I¡¯m beginning the restoration with cleaning and removing as much paint as I can then replace wires, color and gauge correct where needed. I will start checking crossover components confirming condition and whether they meet spec. I will lastly tackle the woofer box rebuild and stripping metal brackets and repainting. I also need to build stands.
|
You¡¯ll find out very quickly that buying woofers tweeters another drivers gets to be much more expensive than just picking up a decent set for $350 and working from that.
You¡¯ll find in the file section complete PDF of the parts list needed put a redo the crossovers and also instructions and PDFs about re-doing wiring etc. the ones that I bought the original yellow Cross it was really working fine I just redid them with better calfs I had to replace and re-phone the woofers the rest of my driver we¡¯re fine I didn¡¯t redo any of the wiring as they work perfectly fine with the exception of the woofer phones asis
On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 1:21 PM richard adelberg via <richardadelberg= [email protected]> wrote: You might be better served just buying another set in better shape off of eBay I was able to buy two sets for about 350 each. I redid call crossovers with clarity caps and mills resistors from madisound.?
I have my second set all re-done with the crossovers new Waterford screen stem simply speakers and everything looks good sounds good and I put them up for sale in craigslist Baltimore. I also have an extra set of yellow Original crossovers and three extra boards with Twitter and other driver on that board and also one of the subwoofer and if he¡¯s electric bored I have to look but I have two of one of those upper boards and one of the other I also have some re-phone woofers from simply speakers oh. Looking at your crossovers it looks like yours are simply filthy
Jon, thank you for all the information. I will try to make them as original as possible. Question about the tweeters, I need to purchase replacements. Where and what are my questions? Then I will search for woofers, 10s in 12¡± frame.
I¡¯m beginning the restoration with cleaning and removing as much paint as I can then replace wires, color and gauge correct where needed. I will start checking crossover components confirming condition and whether they meet spec. I will lastly tackle the woofer box rebuild and stripping metal brackets and repainting. I also need to build stands.
|
I had a similar thought. As much as I hate to see a pair go to their grave, the sum of all the new parts you'll need may far exceed the cost to buy a good used pair (not factoring in your time). These will have to be a "labor of love" project. But I'd tally up your costs and make sure the wife is OK with them going in the living room before pulling the trigger.
You¡¯ll find out very quickly that buying woofers tweeters another drivers gets to be much more expensive than just picking up a decent set for $350 and working from that.
You¡¯ll find in the file section complete PDF of the parts list needed put a redo the crossovers and also instructions and PDFs about re-doing wiring etc. the ones that I bought the original yellow Cross it was really working fine I just redid them with better calfs I had to replace and re-phone the woofers the rest of my driver we¡¯re fine I didn¡¯t redo any of the wiring as they work perfectly fine with the exception of the woofer phones asis On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 1:21 PM richard adelberg via <richardadelberg= [email protected]> wrote: You might be better served just buying another set in better shape off of eBay I was able to buy two sets for about 350 each. I redid call crossovers with clarity caps and mills resistors from madisound.?
I have my second set all re-done with the crossovers new Waterford screen stem simply speakers and everything looks good sounds good and I put them up for sale in craigslist Baltimore. I also have an extra set of yellow Original crossovers and three extra boards with Twitter and other driver on that board and also one of the subwoofer and if he¡¯s electric bored I have to look but I have two of one of those upper boards and one of the other I also have some re-phone woofers from simply speakers oh. Looking at your crossovers it looks like yours are simply filthy
Jon, thank you for all the information. I will try to make them as original as possible. Question about the tweeters, I need to purchase replacements. Where and what are my questions? Then I will search for woofers, 10s in 12¡± frame.
I¡¯m beginning the restoration with cleaning and removing as much paint as I can then replace wires, color and gauge correct where needed. I will start checking crossover components confirming condition and whether they meet spec. I will lastly tackle the woofer box rebuild and stripping metal brackets and repainting. I also need to build stands.
|
No problem. The tweeters were Mikrofonbau HTL-1913, which are on the rarer side, but there are sadly many parted out DQ-10s out there and so second hand tweeters and baffles aren't too difficult to source. The later Advent woofers are also easy to find as plenty of The Advent Loudspeakers were sold and later parted out and new OEM replacement options are available such as this one:??
The original CTS woofers would likely be cheaper because they sell cheap on the used market, but you'd have to know exactly which model and I've not yet found someone with a sub-1000 pair who is able to share with me what might be printed on the magnet's backplate. Going to the Advents will require enlarging the hole and moving the internal braces, but the instructions for that are in the file's section:?/g/DahlquistSpeakers/files/Service%20Documents/DQ-10/DQ-10CompanyDocuments.pdf?
The capacitors will need changing. These are early Temple brand bipolar electrolytics and those aren't good much past 15 years. (Generally, if you see black caps with red ends in a crossover, plan on replacing them. Seems the worst offenders were all that color scheme.) That carbon composition resistor on the supertweeter probably does too since those love to such up moisture and change in value quite significantly, but as the supertweeter was crossed at 12kHz, the need isn't pressing there. The sandcast resistors should be good, too, unless crumbling as sometimes happens. They don't look toasted, at least.
As the others have said, this will definitely be a labor of love and something that should be approached from the aspect of having fun fixing them up rather than from monetary considerations. Not many of these early units from 1973 survive, so there's something to be said for the novelty of saving the vanguard of a model that's achieved legendary status in audio circles and often gets credited among the top 50, even top 10, speakers ever made. However, it would be cheaper to buy another later pair that's complete and go from there.
|
Not too long ago there was an early set with those woofer which had good pictures of the backs of them . Purhaps check search under sold completed sales for them..
On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 2:49 PM John van Son < jpvanson@...> wrote: No problem. The tweeters were Mikrofonbau HTL-1913, which are on the rarer side, but there are sadly many parted out DQ-10s out there and so second hand tweeters and baffles aren't too difficult to source. The later Advent woofers are also easy to find as plenty of The Advent Loudspeakers were sold and later parted out and new OEM replacement options are available such as this one:??
The original CTS woofers would likely be cheaper because they sell cheap on the used market, but you'd have to know exactly which model and I've not yet found someone with a sub-1000 pair who is able to share with me what might be printed on the magnet's backplate. Going to the Advents will require enlarging the hole and moving the internal braces, but the instructions for that are in the file's section:?/g/DahlquistSpeakers/files/Service%20Documents/DQ-10/DQ-10CompanyDocuments.pdf?
The capacitors will need changing. These are early Temple brand bipolar electrolytics and those aren't good much past 15 years. (Generally, if you see black caps with red ends in a crossover, plan on replacing them. Seems the worst offenders were all that color scheme.) That carbon composition resistor on the supertweeter probably does too since those love to such up moisture and change in value quite significantly, but as the supertweeter was crossed at 12kHz, the need isn't pressing there. The sandcast resistors should be good, too, unless crumbling as sometimes happens. They don't look toasted, at least.
As the others have said, this will definitely be a labor of love and something that should be approached from the aspect of having fun fixing them up rather than from monetary considerations. Not many of these early units from 1973 survive, so there's something to be said for the novelty of saving the vanguard of a model that's achieved legendary status in audio circles and often gets credited among the top 50, even top 10, speakers ever made. However, it would be cheaper to buy another later pair that's complete and go from there.
|
I saw a set for sale recently in the sn 430 range, but they only had photos of the whole speakers, not any with one of the woofers removed from the cabinet with a view of where the parts number would be stamped on the motor's backplate.
|
NewOn Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 12:06 PM, John van Son wrote:
I saw a set for sale recently in the sn 430 range, but they only had photos of the whole speakers, not any with one of the woofers removed from the cabinet with a view of where the parts number would be stamped on the motor's backplate.
It will be a labor of love. I'm going for a mix of old and new but save as much old as possible. I have decided to save the woofer cabinets by using some resin, sanding, and paint. I'm going to rewire and swap caps as suggested. I will post pics and questions as I go. Y'all are awesome. Cheers!
|
Greeting Matt,
Nice save! Don't discount those CTS woofers. If you can source the proper surrounds and by all means rebuild them. As stated earlier the caps should definitely be replaced. Also give serious consideration in retaining the OEM wire unless it has been eaten up internally. I rebuilt a pair with standard bell wire. Which is one gauge larger solid that can be had at Home Depot. The jury is still out on the difference in final sound. But it is darn close to the OEM. All of that occured due to a pair I saved from the dump that were in even worse shape. The PO had rewired then with stranded Radio Shack wire from the 80's. Which came down with a case of the internal green goo. The tweeters I'd put off till last. You may find that they still work. And if so you should take in whatever flavor they produce. At least then you have a base line for incorporating replacements. As for caps perhaps you can examine the drawings to see if the later yellow ones are the same values. If so find some of those, match them and slap them in. Same for the resistors. As for cost it could be done alot cheaper than what has been stated. Plus I've yet to hear a pair with modern caps that really outshined the yellow OEM's. Which remarkably most of those are still in operational condition after 40 years.?
So dig in as you should find yourself amazed with the end result.?
DD
NewOn Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 12:06 PM, John van Son wrote:
I saw a set for sale recently in the sn 430 range, but they only had photos of the whole speakers, not any with one of the woofers removed from the cabinet with a view of where the parts number would be stamped on the motor's backplate.
It will be a labor of love. I'm going for a mix of old and new but save as much old as possible. I have decided to save the woofer cabinets by using some resin, sanding, and paint. I'm going to rewire and swap caps as suggested. I will post pics and questions as I go. Y'all are awesome. Cheers!
|
By the way, where would the serial number be located? I¡¯m guessing a plaque that is long gone.?
|
Early models had a very small sticker on the back of one of the upper baffles, but easily could have fallen off on yours.
By the way, where would the serial number be located? I¡¯m guessing a plaque that is long gone.?
|
As mentioned by w e, at the time yours were made, they would have been on a sticker on the back of the tweeter baffle like you can see here:? /g/DahlquistSpeakers/wikiimage/10202?As the baffles are missing altogether on yours, the serials would've gone with them. Good luck with saving them. The more work you put into restoring a set of speakers, the more you'll appreciate them in the end. It's a great feeling bringing a dead set back to life.
|
I'm going to order the caps and other crossover parts. Is there a "cheat sheet" of what I need and any suggestions on where to purchase?
|
I can send u the cap and resister list but should be in files . What¡¯s email
I'm going to order the caps and other crossover parts. Is there a "cheat sheet" of what I need and any suggestions on where to purchase?
|
Mab.switawi@...Thank you very much. I will make sure to add pictures as the restoration continues. Matt
|
Two list ?one diff between the two. 5.6 vs 6.0.? I used 6.0 and sonic diff if u out into crossover calculation is inaudible ?
Mab.switawi@...
Thank you very much. I will make sure to add pictures as the restoration continues. Matt
|
Put u to crossover calculator is inaudible?
On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 5:46 PM dina hirsch < Rdajr1079@...> wrote: Two list ?one diff between the two. 5.6 vs 6.0.? I used 6.0 and sonic diff if u out into crossover calculation is inaudible ? Mab.switawi@...
Thank you very much. I will make sure to add pictures as the restoration continues. Matt
|
Your crossovers are different than what the last fifty some thousand DQ-10s came with. If you wish to go with the newer style crossover, you may need to make more modifications to what you have there and order more parts rather than just dropping the new values in. It'll be easier in the long run to sort out what your crossover is doing and what parts you'll ultimately need now than get the parts in hand and then try to figure it out. For instance, I've circled three?things you'll need to check with yours here:?
?
#1 is a resistor that has a value of 5.5?s (sometimes 5.6?s in the odd unit) in most examples made. The first two hundred, however, had that with a value of 8?. The next 800 reduced it to 4?. After that the standard was established. You'll want to check what that one is to figure out if you need to replace it with the newer value and, if so, what other changes to the crossover need to be done so that it becomes the correct value.
#2 may be original or a later mod. Early units had two resistors there (unknown value), a modification went out about the same time as with #1 to reduce it to a single 4? resistor. Later on, this was switched again to two 4? resistors that lasted until the end of the run. You'd need the latter.
#3 You may or may not be missing a resistor here. Some early units had one. Later units did not and a mod went out to remove it. You'll want to figure out from the rest of the crossover which might be the case and if you have to change how things are wired elsewhere. Same with another near #1 that would've been removed at the same time. It's a bit fun to suss these things out, but it does take time.
Regarding capacitor values, if you're going with the final crossover revision, you can find the schematic here:?/g/DahlquistSpeakers/wiki/23560?Regnar changed the values around some, hence the 5.6?F cap in a Regnar recapped crossover vs. 6.0?F in the stock. I do not know their reasons be it to tweak the sound just a tiny bit to sell their services (because people tend to hear different as better with the right sales pitch), to improve the design or just because of bulk prices for the caps.
|
MattB
SpongeSound