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Re: Where to buy midcentury looking legs
dina hirsch
I have two sets one home built the other fact but they have full bottoms. The most study were made from wood and painted brown. On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 6:53 PM <Stephen@...> wrote: Hello, I'm buying a set of DQ10's that have long lost thier stands. I've seen some with 3 midcentury looking legs. Where can I buy some of those that work well for the speaker? From what I've read they do better at about 10" off the floor so legs to get it that high would be nice....but anything is better than the floor.? |
Where to buy midcentury looking legs
Hello, I'm buying a set of DQ10's that have long lost thier stands. I've seen some with 3 midcentury looking legs. Where can I buy some of those that work well for the speaker? From what I've read they do better at about 10" off the floor so legs to get it that high would be nice....but anything is better than the floor.?
I dont have time right now to build full stands. Just want to get some legs others have used that look good (cute midcentury look that the wife likes) and are sturdy. Thanks! |
Re: DQ-10 Regnar Cap Upgrade
That crossover sheet was drawn up some years back by another member of the group and reflects owner input on what they observed in their crossovers. The capacitor values represent early-mid, late and Regnar values roughly in that order. R3 shows the different resistances observed from early-mid and late, but reverse of that. (5.6ohms was s/n 6000-8000, iirc, with 5.5ohms being the standard). Early crossovers were wired up fairly different and had the odd variation here and there as parts supply influenced some choices (such as a short run where two 40uF caps were used in lieu of a single 80uF and the like). This is Dahlquist's final crossover schematic that came out sometime in the 1980s (the move from Freeport to Hauppauge occurred in 1980) and matches those seen in units on through to and above s/n 50000: Caps should be replaced. Resistors are worth checking to make sure they're still good (they can get a bit toasty in these or fall apart over the years). The inductors don't need touching unless they're showing signs of being overheated and melting some (seen some examples like that). Upsizing the gauge to 'better' inductors can upset the balance of the series crossover by reducing the DCR too low. It's not so much an issue in parallel crossovers, but can be with a series setup like this. ? Aging issues with the Philips AD5060/W8 are certainly a concern. Rubber surrounds, much like caps, do not last forever (no matter what the Cliff Clavins on some forums maintain). They stiffen with age and that is not a reversible process. The very hokey attempts at fixing them you'll find in various online fora such as ArmorAll or even brake fluid (a solvent to rubber) only alter the compliance in unpredictable ways and nothing like to the original parameters. Manually manipulating them only induces cracks that again alters the compliance to something other than original. As Philips quit making them ~1985, there are no NOS options that aren't suffering from age as well. The AD5062/W8 is a drop-in replacement and, in fact, was what Dahlquist used the last couple of years of DQ-10 production after supplies of the AD5060 ran out and will be newer, but it isn't the most readily available and will be aging as well. Simply Speakers, however, does sell a refoam kit for the driver that should work:??It's not rubber, but that shouldn't impact much for the bandpass it's used in with the DQ-10. (The main differences between the two materials are more of an issue at higher frequencies where the different acoustic impedance matches and damping they present the cone impacts resonant and break-up behavior and so are chosen accordingly for the desired results. Foam is usually better at this than the rubber-esque options anyways and why it was and still is used in so many drivers.) |
Re: DQ-10 Regnar Cap Upgrade
dina hirsch
The two parts list are in the files or I can email to anyone who wants them. Both use clarity caps and mills resistors . The only diff are un auditable where one lists uses a couple 5.6 caps and the other 6.0¡ as others have stated ?you¡¯ll have more audible difference in your drivers over the past 50 y¡¯s. On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 2:08 PM Charlie Conger <ctconger@...> wrote: I do not know the source. It appears to have values from both the original design, a later Dahlquist variant, as well as those supplied by Regnar. The changes in values of the caps are pretty minor given that series networks like these are partly self compensating. That means changing the values of say the midrange creates a change in the woofer response such that the change is partially compensated for. Given that drivers also will have changed parameters after many years it seems unlikely that it would make much difference. Unless you have the knowledge skills and ability to measure, the knowledge to redesign the network, ?and a good target to shoot for maybe it is best to just replace with the average of the values that have evolved. That should at least put you in the ballpark.? |
Re: DQ-10 Regnar Cap Upgrade
I do not know the source. It appears to have values from both the original design, a later Dahlquist variant, as well as those supplied by Regnar. The changes in values of the caps are pretty minor given that series networks like these are partly self compensating. That means changing the values of say the midrange creates a change in the woofer response such that the change is partially compensated for. Given that drivers also will have changed parameters after many years it seems unlikely that it would make much difference. Unless you have the knowledge skills and ability to measure, the knowledge to redesign the network, ?and a good target to shoot for maybe it is best to just replace with the average of the values that have evolved. That should at least put you in the ballpark.?
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Re: DQ-10 Regnar Cap Upgrade
Charlie - Is this diagram "official" in the sense that it came from Dahlquist? I've seen a few versions of this diagram over the years.? I have a pair I want to upgrade at some point and want to confirm the source of guidance. I agree with your philosophy on changes - best to stay as close to the original as possible given the engineering a design behind it. I've always felt the DQ-10's design was its greatest feature and its biggest liability. Something about it beckons one to mess with it, to try and improve it. I'm open to "upgrades" but I need to see real data to support the change, otherwise you're just chasing a dream based on somebody else's opinion.
I will add all 5 versions of schematics I have to the Files section. On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 5:04 PM Charlie Conger <ctconger@...> wrote:
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Re: DQ-10 Regnar Cap Upgrade
Yeah definitely all food for thought. I'd spec out and match the yellow film version and enjoy. You may even find them still closely matched. Not only are modern rebuilds overkill but they become something different than what the creator created. As there are many different variables involved other than who produces a cap, inductor, resistor, or even a wire type. They all matched to the drivers to produce the gumbo it became. They put countless hours designing the final remarkable result. Best to consider it sacred and tread lightly. Or at least get two pairs and keep one oem as reference. Later on you may be surprised as to which you prefer. Been there done that. Just get a LP1 and biamp and save a whole lot of expended time. Best, On Sep 10, 2021 1:59 PM, "Charlie Conger" <ctconger@...> wrote: The higher voltage caps are fine. Using "high power" coil means heavier wire with lower series resistance. This will slightly increase the level of the drivers that is fed from the respective coil. this could be good or bad thing depending on whether that drivers level is to low or too high relative to the others. In general coil do not go bad, ?I would leave them alone.? |
Re: DQ-10 Regnar Cap Upgrade
The higher voltage caps are fine. Using "high power" coil means heavier wire with lower series resistance. This will slightly increase the level of the drivers that is fed from the respective coil. this could be good or bad thing depending on whether that drivers level is to low or too high relative to the others. In general coil do not go bad, ?I would leave them alone.?
John looks like he had good advice. I will say i have the necessary equipment to thoroughly tested caps and the I have the same yellow caps as yours. they were all fine. However if you are replacing all the caps in the other xover might as well do them all. THE?ClarityCap PX are good choice if within your price range.? This sheet may help Dahlquist DQ-10 Modified Schematic.pdf If the drivers are original they are the more likely suspect in terms of causing audible colorations. Both of my tweeters had odd impedance curves and one was totally dead. The voicecoil lead wire was broken on that one. When i disassembled the driver to repair it I noticed a huge glob of adhesive that had hardened over most of the corrugated tweeter surround. This impeded dome motion. I was able to gently remove most of the adhesive on the inner surround using very small exacto knife. It is like brain surgery so i don't recommend trying this unless you are confident in your skills. Removing the adhesive greatly improved both the tweeter sound and the impedance curves. The midranges also had hardened surrounds which I softened by gently pushing the cones in and out by the surrounds. I would add if exact replacements were available I would have used them instead. The Renar replacements are out of the my price range if they are all replaced. My original goal was to restore as close to original. They sounded great restored that way. The project has since changed, I am doing some relatively minor upgrades. Going well so far. ?i leave one speaker as the reference and then compare in mono. Also have made tons of measurements and used those as a compass to guide any changes. All measurements are confirmed by listening. Any time a change is made that is NOT confirmed by both measurements and listening to be better it is undone. As the redesign progresses a larger percentage of the time is spent listening. Right now it is 80% listening.? |
Re: DQ-10 Regnar Cap Upgrade
Dave Ferrey
Thanks everyone for your responses. ?You've given me a lot to think about as well as understanding I need to develop more knowledge in this area before I make any decisions.?
The crossovers came from 2 different dests of speakers, I should have mentioned that. Here is an opinion from a friend - Overkill? So have done a little research going to all 250 volt caps upgraded 300 watt coils and 20 watt 1% resistors. So basically upgrading all parts looking about 320.00 plus shipping and assembly. That would be replacing everything in crossovers. If you wanted to use foil caps to bypass about an additional 20.00. |
Re: DQ-10 Regnar Cap Upgrade
There are two parts list in filed using clarity caps and milks resistors. Inky diff I¡¯d one used 5.6 uf the other 6.0 uf . Hardly an audible diff as I tried it both ways? On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 8:13 AM John van Son <jpvanson@...> wrote:
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Re: DQ-10 Regnar Cap Upgrade
Interesting pairing. Those crossovers are a few thousand serial numbers apart. Wonder how such a disparate pair got together? ? You'll definitely need to be replacing all the caps in the DQ-10 with the black electrolytics and the gray Matsushita 80?F. Electrolytic capacitors do not last half as long (or even a third as long) as those are old and series crossovers are finnicky enough with caps that are in value with the right ESR let alone dried out caps with eroded oxide layers. You'll want to do both at the same time to keep their voicing the same. It's not a waste, those old polyester film caps do degrade with time and forty years is about when their failure rate becomes significant ie around the age of that crossover. So, it'll need to be done sooner than later anyways to avoid risking something being off or bad. As for the Regnar kits, the basic package uses Solens non-polarized metallized polypropylene film capacitors that can be picked up most anywhere (Madisound, Parts Express, Solen.ca, etc). Iirc, the blue 80?F cap is a Bennic electrolytic, but the brand may have changed. The more expensive packages change to ClarityCap PX metallized polypropylene film caps (again available at Madisound and Parts Express) to increasing degrees as the price goes up. They're solid cap choices and my recommendation regardless of what others may sell as a package. You could go more expensive (Janzen, Mundorf) or throw away money on lower quality, but even more expensive esoteric options like those from Dueland, but there'd be nothing to gain there or you might even end up worse off. (Audiophile esoterica has little correlation with good, competent electronic design.) The cap values in the Regnar kits, however, are tweaked just a little bit from the last Dahlquist revision values. That was his own improvement on the design and, coupled with the customer service, a point (though arguable) to the premium pricing. I don't feel comfortable sharing those and undercutting his business in a more direct manner (no matter how small the degree may be) beyond good generic advice that applies to all vintage speakers. |
Re: DQ-10 Regnar Cap Upgrade
dina hirsch
I used clarity caps and mills resistors from madisound . Cost about $250 and takes an hr each.? There¡¯s a restoration pdf in the files with parts list on dahlquist group page. I can forward it if you want it. I noticed that the highs and mids were slightly tamed and not as piercing . No change to bass. Also don¡¯t replace film caps in piezo network . Seldom fail.? I have 2 extra. Yellow cap crossovers. I also think it¡¯s expensive abd yellow caps versions seldom fail.? On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 12:28 AM Charlie Conger <ctconger@...> wrote: Looks like you have two crossovers there. The left one has film caps (rarely fail) ?and the blue 80uF electrolytic. The right one has mostly electrolytics, the black ones are a good brand but could be old and need replacement. The grey one should be replaced.? |
Re: DQ-10 Regnar Cap Upgrade
Looks like you have two crossovers there. The left one has film caps (rarely fail) ?and the blue 80uF electrolytic. The right one has mostly electrolytics, the black ones are a good brand but could be old and need replacement. The grey one should be replaced.?
I just went thru this process and the improvement if any was very subtle. Unless you just want to spend a fair amount of money I would replace all the black ones with the same value Polypropylene caps and replace both 80uF electrolytics with either a high end electrolytic or film cap. Parts express parts are OK if you want to save some money, other wise the sky is the limit.? Far more critical is careful cleaning of the boards with a brush, vacuum, or compressed air then alcohol and careful soldering. My boards had MANY botched solder joints from the last person that repaired it. Those bad solder joints were easily audible. Far more audible that the new caps. The woofers were also wired out of phase relative to the correct wiring so if you are not the original owner you should check that as well. The values should be derived from the schematic for your specific version. Also cross check with the values printed on each cap. |
DQ-20 replacements
Can anyone suggest a list to the following questions:
For both the DQ-20 and the DQ-20i 1) What were the original drivers? I know small companies tend to change components during production, so to get the best answer, the DQ-20 serial numbers are in the 20-02400 range, and the DQ-20i in the 007900 range 2) What are the currently available best replacements for each of the three drivers (from Madisound or other good speaker component supplier)? |