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I noticed you wrote "This world does not work"

I have written this before, too. "The world is upside down and
backwards and not meant to work". I thought this was in ACIM, but
can't find it, at least in that way.

Maybe Ken W. or Marianne Williamson paraphrased on a tape.

The last time I wrote this, someone (forget who) corrected me and
said that's not true. The world DOES WORK. It works perfectly.

It works at being what it is- ego/separation.

But it does work. It works just fine, being "the world".

It just doesn't work the way we might think it should, going by
what ACIM teaches.

But if it was like that, it would no longer be the world.
Ego/illusion.

It wouldn't be anything.

Not saying you're wrong, and I do know what you mean by "The world
doesn't work".

Just thought I'd pass that perspective about it on.

I had never thought of it like that before.

~ Carrie






--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., BBFBBN@a...
wrote:

Hello melbywells@e...,

In reference to your comment:

è Maybe the older we are the easier it is to *practice*
è forgiveness.

I just think that the older we are the more practice we had at

trying to make

this a better world, we try so hard to carve out our little "niche"

and still

feel empty and realize that it is not working and then we ask for

help.

I was introduced to the Course in 1988. I was in my mid 30's

having gone

through another failed relationship ... due to my attraction to men

who were

addicts.

And it answered a lot of questions for me .. it made sense .. but I

still had

to go through stuff ... I still had to try to make this world a

better place

for me ... I wanted equality for Black people, try to find that

good black

man ... I had causes ... but no matter what I did nothing seemed

to work. When

my son got sick I knew I needed help and I found Joe Jessup and

Course Talk.

Even then I knew I had another classroom to go through and when my

son passed

away ... I just shut down ... however, it was my core belief in the

Course ..

that this world is not real, that escape through suicide or

whatever was not

the answer. There is no place to escape in a dream ... all I

could do was

wake up .. and I was and still am too fearful to do that.

I am now 48 now and after reading Gary's Book and recently

attending the

workshops conducted by Ken ... it is almost like I am seeing the

Course with new

eyes.

This world DOES NOT WORK.

I understand that now.

Now I am ready to intensify my study and attention in sticking with

the Right

Teacher and stop thinking that I have the answers.

And I believe that for most folks, that comes with age and time.

Peace

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I would feel the same way you do, but have you thought about maybe
doing what she so strongly wants you to do?

Because she wants it so badly?

There's a place in ACIM where it says if a brother asks you to do a
foolish thing (you feel is foolish) and strongly insists on it, to do
it. Because it means so much to him.

And doesn't really matter all that much, in Truth.

This is later "corrected" (if Jesus really corrected it, and Helen
didn't- realizing the implications of what she had previously
written) and changed to "as long as it doesn't hurt him or anyone
else".

Seems like any other corrections were made where the orginal words
were, and this changed.

I think if we are aligned with Spirit, and in "Right Mind" nobody
would be attracted to us who would strongly insist we do something to
hurt someone else (like murder them).

And if they did, it might be more a projection of what is in our
own mind and not so much someone else strongly insisting on it.


I can just imagine the court case that would result from this!
Using ACIM to show that I did it because my brother strongly insisted
I do. (LOL)

But, if it would make your mother happy and feel better, and not be
all that big a deal, maybe you could just get the kids babpised?

My daughter was faced with this with her first child, her inlaws
wanted him babtised. They finally went ahead and did it, peace
resulted and the baby is now a 15 year old teenager (over 6'tall) and
it doesn't seem to have harmed him any.

Not trying to tell you what to do, but just writing it for the
sake of possible discussion.

~ Carrie





--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "jane4r1"
<melbywells@e...> wrote:

Please bear with me as I tell this story. My mother is 70 years

old.

She is angry with me for not going to Church and for not baptizing

my

2 sons. She believes that "young people today" ("young" for me is

41)

have not had any "real troubles" and are "arrogant in not believing
in God" and "not asking God to help" them. She really thinks that

my

2 sons will go to hell because they have not been baptized. She
doesn't understand that I (along with many other ACIM students)
believe that our relationship with God is individual and personal

and

doesn't require us to attend church or follow the rules of the
established church. I could say that she is too "old" to understand
ACIM, but that would be judging her harshly. She has her path and I
have mine. I love her and forgive her every day.

I guess I am saying that I don't think age has anything to do with
one's spirituality.

Love,
Elizabeth

--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., BBFBBN@a...
wrote:

Hello melbywells@e...,

In reference to your comment:

è Maybe the older we are the easier it is to *practice*
è forgiveness.

I just think that the older we are the more practice we had at

trying to make

this a better world, we try so hard to carve out our

little "niche"

and still

feel empty and realize that it is not working and then we ask for

help.

I was introduced to the Course in 1988. I was in my mid 30's

having gone

through another failed relationship ... due to my attraction to

men

who were

addicts.

And it answered a lot of questions for me .. it made sense .. but

I

still had

to go through stuff ... I still had to try to make this world a

better place

for me ... I wanted equality for Black people, try to find that

good black

man ... I had causes ... but no matter what I did nothing seemed

to work. When

my son got sick I knew I needed help and I found Joe Jessup and

Course Talk.

Even then I knew I had another classroom to go through and when

my

son passed

away ... I just shut down ... however, it was my core belief in

the

Course ..

that this world is not real, that escape through suicide or

whatever was not

the answer. There is no place to escape in a dream ... all I

could do was

wake up .. and I was and still am too fearful to do that.

I am now 48 now and after reading Gary's Book and recently

attending the

workshops conducted by Ken ... it is almost like I am seeing the

Course with new

eyes.

This world DOES NOT WORK.

I understand that now.

Now I am ready to intensify my study and attention in sticking

with

the Right

Teacher and stop thinking that I have the answers.

And I believe that for most folks, that comes with age and time.

Peace

A good book about this (I once read from the library) and Jesus
awakening to his Power is "Discovering the Power Within" by Eric
Butterworth. Or "Discover"?

He was a Unity Minister and writer (who passed away this year).

I keep thinking I'm going to look up that book online, on a used
book store and buy it, and then forget.

It tells about the times of Jesus and goes over bible passages and
writes about them in a real, understandable way.

It was a long time ago, and I don't remember any more of the details.

~ Carrie




--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., LindaL
<lklanglois@y...> wrote:

I think J was 32 or 33 when crucified. At 12 he was talking with

the wise men in the Temple, and they were marvelling at him.

jane4r1 <melbywells@e...> wrote:Hello everybody,
I just had to respond to this thread about age and ACIM. Who made
the original comments? I am curious and would like to know. My

first

thoughts on reading this were, How old was J when he tried teaching
others about the Truth? How old does one have to be to learn
forgiveness lessons, anyway? Or to learn the Truth? "The truth will
seldom be well received by anyone" (D.U., Arten, page 36). Maybe

the

older we are the easier it is to *practice* forgiveness.

Elizabeth
"You are in fact, the Love of God, and your real life is with Him."
(D.U., page 42)




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Actually it is a "correction" (and Ken Wapnick is the one who
pointed it out to me and called it this, when I was new to the course
and asked him about the "foolish thing" passage)

it's just who is it a correction by?

Jesus- who didn't seem to make mistakes, like saying something that
needed another whole paragraph, later on (out of context with what
that chapter was about) and not just having Helen go to the original
lines and cross out, write in the margins, and change it.

I think it could have been find and stood on it's own the way it was
first written.

But someone's fear decided to correct it and change it later on in
the book.

There's also the idea that the course teaches that we CAN'T "do
harm/hurt to anyone else".

Doesn't really matter, whatever anyone believes is true is true.

~ Carrie


--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., "mstreet"
<mastreet@t...> wrote:

Carrie wrote:

This is later "corrected" (if Jesus really corrected it, and

Helen

didn't- realizing the implications of what she had previously
written) and changed to "as long as it doesn't hurt him or anyone
else".<<

Hi Carrie:

Yes, I think the Course needs to be taken as a whole. Not just the

parts we like. Here is that other section that you refer to. And I do
not think it was a correction.

(T.16.I.6.4-8.7)
"I have said that if a brother asks a foolish thing of you do it.

But be

certain that this does not mean to do a foolish thing that would

hurt either

him or you, for what would hurt one will hurt the other. Foolish

requests

are foolish merely because they conflict, since they always contain

some

elements of specialness. Only the Holy Spirit recognizes foolish

needs as

well as real ones. and He will teach you how to meet both without

losing

either."

Seems like any other corrections were made where the orginal

words

were, and this changed.<<

Well I think that some of later parts of the Text are too

threatening to our egos, and our need for specialness, so many like
not even to read them, and would certainly not like to have them seen
as dictated by Jesus. :-)

~ Martha

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Doesn't really matter, whatever anyone believes is true is true.<<

As long as they don't promote it as what A Course in Miracles

teaches. :-)

~ Martha

And, of course, YOU know what ACIM teaches better than anyone
else, right?

And you are promoting your belief in what it teaches.

You seem to have missed the chapter that says everyone is just
as "right" as anyone else, and ego can see and try and correct ego in
anyone else.


I know it's my ego pointing this out to you.

And that I don't see/believe there are contrdictions and
corrections anywhere in ACIM except that one place, that seems to
be "just stuck in", not even all that relevant to what else is being
discussed there.

But, thanks for sharing your beliefs on it.

Something to remember next time I think about discussing something.

I'll have to check it out with you first and make sure it's what
ACIM really says- and means.

~ Carrie

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--- In Disappearance_of_the_Universe@..., BBFBBN@a...
wrote:

Hello starchild1124@y...,

In reference to your comment:

è Actually it is a "correction" (and Ken Wapnick is the
è one who pointed it out to me and called it this, when I
è was new to the course and asked him about the
è "foolish thing" passage)

One of the things that have been consistent with Ken when he speaks

of

changes in the Course early on, was due to Helen's fear. Early on

Helen's ego would

slip in and Jesus would later correct it.

Peace

I think it's the other way around. I think Helen took it down as
Jesus gave it to her, in the first place. Where it says "if a brother
asks you to do a foolish thing- even if it's insane (which it will be
if he's in ego), etc" (from memory)

Later, a few chapters on, maybe when they were rereading it or
editing it, Helen read that and thought "oh no, people will be asking
someone else to steal or kill someone and strongly insisting on it,
and the person (if they have read the course) will feel they have to
do it!"

And added that afterthought, which doesn't even really fit in the
place it's in, like "I have told you to do a foolish thing, but not
if it might harm yourself or others".

Which came from Helen's ego/fear.

I think (not that I was there or asked (LOL) that the first
reference to it was clear and simple and could have stood on it's
own. Just the idea of "trusting HS" would take care of it.

Trusting that nobody would strongly insist you do something like
kill someone.

And it doesn't really mean you have to do it. If you felt it was
wrong (which killing someone might be) you don't have to do it, even
if it seems really important to someone else. But, look at the armed
forces, who are trained to kill and ordered to in a war?

Just look at it (whatever it is) and ask yourself WHY do I have a
stronger investment in not doing it?

Like giving in, as the most peaceful/joining way to be.

Ask myself "does this really matter?" My brother is just as right
as I am.

Like Hugh Prather has said about forgiveness being a thought and
not (always) a behavior. You can forgive a murderer and still keep
him locked up or an abusive spouse and not choose to live with them.

Even IF someone strongly insisted you do something that might hurt
someone, or you didn't feel right about doing. You could look at it
and why you might not want to do it (if it's just digging in your
heels and not wanting to give in) without actually doing it.

More of a thought/exercise than actually doing it.

But I've always thought that was an ego/afterthought where it was
later corrected "out of the blue" like that.

If anyone believes differently and feels strongly about it, they
can be right (LOL)

Actually, I applied this myself, when I had a discussion board (not
an ACIM based one but we sometimes wrote about this and quoted from
it) and recieved an email from the foundation's lawyer (Carrie
Fletcher) pointing out the copyright rules and guidelines and
how "the other versions" weren't to be quoted at all, etc.etc. I was
supposed to monitor and moderate the board (which I wasn't doing up
till then and didn't want to) to make sure the copyright rules
weren't broken. Because it was MY board and I was responsible for
what was written on it.

My board was a little "nothing" board that had been brought to the
attention of the foundation (by the "ACIM police" (LOL)

I did write about it on the board and suggested that people just
give the reference number instead of using long quotes. I got accused
of being "afraid of getting sued" but it was more like Ken and the
foundation seemed to want so badly to own and control those words,
the most peaceful thing to do was just allow them to. No big deal. We
could put it into our own words if we needed to.

Not that there weren't (and still aren't) boards that are openly
writing about and quoting the course and don't even have copyright
notices on. And the foundation is aware of this.

But at the time it was something that felt right to me. If we don't
at least try and live what we believe, what good is it?

~ Carrie

I think it's the other way around. I think Helen took it down as
Jesus gave it to her, in the first place. Where it says "if a brother
asks you to do a foolish thing- even if it's insane (which it will be
if he's in ego), etc" (from memory)

Later, a few chapters on, maybe when they were rereading it or
editing it, Helen read that and thought "oh no, people will be asking
someone else to steal or kill someone and strongly insisting on it,
and the person (if they have read the course) will feel they have to
do it!"

And added that afterthought, which doesn't even really fit in the
place it's in, like "I have told you to do a foolish thing, but not
if it might harm yourself or others".

Which came from Helen's ego/fear

Hello, Carrie -

I would suggest that you read these two sections very carefully, with an
open mind - then still your mind - let the Holy Spirit - Jesus - the Right
Mind - whatever term you are comfortable using - communicate to you what
these sections mean.

Also I was fortunate enough to go to the 25 year anniversary of ACIM in
Anaheim. I also have read much about the beginning years of the Course. It
was a miracle how all the beginning students/teachers came together and
worked to get this very important work to the "others" who seem to be "out
there."

I trust my brother who is One with me. (But I sure don't trust the ego.)

Judy

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