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AC servo and DC brushless motors are I believe one and the same for all
intents and purposes.

An induction motor cannot be described as a servo motor as its low speed
performance is generally a bit rough. To produce torque you have to induce
current in the rotor that at very low frequencies and speeds is not very
efficient. With permanent magnets on the rotor (ie your ac servo motor) the
rotor flux is permanently established.

Regards Peter

Did somebody try to get rid of the feed screw all together
and replace it with a hydraulic cylinder?
At the first glance it may present several advantages:
no backlash, big force at low cost.
Alex

In a message dated 11/4/2002 11:17:44 AM Central Standard Time,
elson@... writes:

My problem is that the torque amplifiers have 50V 3-phase motors (50Hz, 1/40
hp, 2750 r.p.m.) <<

WHERE did you come up with "50 V"??? It clearly says "50 Hz.", which is
"cycles" in Fifties-speak, NOT "V[oltage]" !!!!!!!

--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., Jon Elson <elson@p...> wrote:

DC Brushless motors are really misnamed. THEY are truly

synchronous

motors. AC servo motors
are VERY similar to ordinary AC induction motors, and they ARE
asynchronous, as they have to be
for the induction principle to excite the rotor.

I've been confused between DC Brushless and AC synchronous Servo
motors and thought I'd sorted this out, but now I'm confused again.

The MAC AC Servo motors by Indramat (now Bosch Rexroth) are described
as synchronous but they are not similar to ordinary ac induction
motors. They have a wound stator, electronic commutation, and a rotor
comprised of 6 (or another multiple of 3 presumably) permanent
magnets, rather than the squirrel cage of conductors which form the
normal induction motor rotor. As far as I can see there is no
induction involved - the stator produces a rotating magnetic field
and the magnetic rotor follows it. What makes it synchronous is the
commutation which signals the servo drive to supply the correctly
phased stator drive.

How would you describe that type of motor?

Hi,

I need all the help I can get as I'm trying to build my first cnc
router.
I have basic cnc knowledge, and I have a complete workshope.
I need information on how to start, what do I need to know, and
anything that can help me.

My email is minaf@...

Thank you.

I seem to remember some one was asking about an inexpensive PCB machined.
This may work, i have heard of them being used before.

aubob2002 wrote:

Can anyone help me find the web sit for Quickstep solfware The
address I have is but I
can not get through on that address. You help would be appreciated.
Bob B.

As long as shameless plugs are in order, have a look at Axis Wizard, under
Belfab URL, in the tagline. Probably doesn't do quite as much in threading
mode as Wayne's, but it does do threads as inch/metric, inside/outside,
straight/taper, and all common turning, grooving etc, plus has a wide
variety of milling routines.



At 06:46 AM 11/5/02 -0000, you wrote:

Tim,

Here is the shameless plug for my software.

Lathe Quick Code V2.5 $75.00

Demo download on web site.

Programs in Diameter.
Programs in Inch or Metric systems.

Material speeds and feeds for the operation selected.
Select thread sizes, drill sizes, tap sizes from combo list boxes.

Enter size dimensions and parameters into the text boxes, press OK
and the G-Code appears!

The threading features are the best of any CAD/CAM software on the
market.

Programs Fanuc 6T and OT G76 thread cycles or multiple lines in G33.
Calculates 60 degree OD/ID thread depth given the thread major and
pitch. Metric thread sizes are calculated in Inches. If the program
settings are in Metric, then Inch thread sizes are calculated in
metric.

Program multi-lead thread on taper with offset plunge cutting.
Pick thread size from listing - or add your own into the user text
file.
Pipe threading sizes.

Simple outside grooving.

Center drilling to correct depth by drill angle or center drill size.

Deep drilling with G83 or multiple lines in G01

Ream operation.

Tap Operation.

I purposely did not want include single point turning, besides of the
complexity involved, and because there are so many CAD/CAM systems
out there that can handle this with ease.

Wayne




--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., "Tim Goldstein" <timg@k...> wrote:

Wayne,

Please do give us the shameless plug. It is considered acceptable

for

your to explain what you have, give a price, and answer questions

about

it. You just have to conduct actual transactions off the list.

Tim
[Denver CO]

-----Original Message-----
Bill,

Haas resently paid Hurco some big bucks in a patent law

settlement to

use conversational programming on their controls :~) Seems Hurco

has

some patents on the machine side of conversational programming.
There a few PC based conversational programs out there. I will

not

shamlessly plug my conversational lathe software. Contact me

offlist

if you what to learn more about it.

Wayne

Addresses:
FAQ:
FILES:
Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...

Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@...
Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@...
List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@..., wanliker@...
Moderator: jmelson@... timg@... [Moderator]
URL to this group:

OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:

aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if
you have trouble.

I consider this to be a

sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for
OT subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.

NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM.

DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........

bill
List Mom
List Owner



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

Regards, Hoyt McKagen

To prevent virus propogation, don't put this addy in your book
Belfab CNC -
US Best MC -
Camping/Caving -
Two-Wheel-Tech List -
Never trust a fat man

Yes but moving from x(0)y(0) to x(1)y(1) requires the same sort of calc.
However you cut it though, the inherent differences in accuracy at
differing radii in polar machine, is the death knell for practicality.


At 08:23 PM 11/4/02 -0600, you wrote:

Fred, I have to agree with the other Ray H. A Polar
machine/software making a move from X(1) to X(2) must
calculate every position along the path, whereas a
Recti-linear machine merely has to say' "Am I at X(2)
yet?... no, well, then add another pulse at the X-axis."
Now, it's true, that in a Rect. machine/software,
interpolating a circular move, the program must calculate
every point on the path, but so must a Polar
machine/software. Polar machines must, of necessity be more
complex. I trained o a FANUC 120-iL Robot Welder at the
Lincoln Electric School in Cleveland, OH, a couple of years
ago, and that was one complex machine. Six axes, and four
different reference frames (points of view). Fortunately,
the programming was done via a Pendant, so it was
relatively easy... But the machine was complex. It was
really fearsome, to watch that robot welding, just thinking
about all the calculations it had to be making every few
microseconds.

RayHex

----------

From: Fred Smith <imserv@...>
To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Polar Coordinates CNC?
Date: Sunday, November 03, 2002 8:06 PM

--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., Ray Henry <rehenry@u...>

wrote:

along that vector so in effect it is a polar move. I

can't for the

life of me see how specifying three angles and a

distance would be more

efficient or would somehow alter the fundamental

thinking about

milling or turning.

It's the machine that is simpler.

Think of a turntable (like a lazy susan) with the part

mounted in

place on the turntable. The rotation is C axis

Now place a single horizontal linear axis parallel to the

face of the

turntable (X) above the work piece, and mount a Vertical

Z axis onto

the X. (R is not a valid CNC linear axis so I will refer

to it as X.)

The machine is simplified to a single linear X and a

bearing for C.

Instead of at least 4 precision linear guide components

for a linear

gantry style machine, you reduce it to 2 (shortest

possible) plus the

bearing (Actually only 1 if you use a dove tail

arrangement like a

Bishop-Wisecarver rail). The Z axis is the same

mechanism in this

case.

Addresses:
FAQ:
FILES:
Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...

Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@...
Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@...
List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@..., wanliker@...
Moderator: jmelson@... timg@... [Moderator]
URL to this group:

OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:

aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if
you have trouble.

I consider this to be a

sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for
OT subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.

NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM.

DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........

bill
List Mom
List Owner



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

Regards, Hoyt McKagen

To prevent virus propogation, don't put this addy in your book
Belfab CNC -
US Best MC -
Camping/Caving -
Two-Wheel-Tech List -
Never trust a fat man

Tim,

Here is the shameless plug for my software.

Lathe Quick Code V2.5 $75.00

Demo download on web site.

Programs in Diameter.
Programs in Inch or Metric systems.

Material speeds and feeds for the operation selected.
Select thread sizes, drill sizes, tap sizes from combo list boxes.

Enter size dimensions and parameters into the text boxes, press OK
and the G-Code appears!

The threading features are the best of any CAD/CAM software on the
market.

Programs Fanuc 6T and OT G76 thread cycles or multiple lines in G33.
Calculates 60 degree OD/ID thread depth given the thread major and
pitch. Metric thread sizes are calculated in Inches. If the program
settings are in Metric, then Inch thread sizes are calculated in
metric.

Program multi-lead thread on taper with offset plunge cutting.
Pick thread size from listing - or add your own into the user text
file.
Pipe threading sizes.

Simple outside grooving.

Center drilling to correct depth by drill angle or center drill size.

Deep drilling with G83 or multiple lines in G01

Ream operation.

Tap Operation.

I purposely did not want include single point turning, besides of the
complexity involved, and because there are so many CAD/CAM systems
out there that can handle this with ease.

Wayne




--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., "Tim Goldstein" <timg@k...> wrote:

Wayne,

Please do give us the shameless plug. It is considered acceptable

for

your to explain what you have, give a price, and answer questions

about

it. You just have to conduct actual transactions off the list.

Tim
[Denver CO]

-----Original Message-----
Bill,

Haas resently paid Hurco some big bucks in a patent law

settlement to

use conversational programming on their controls :~) Seems Hurco

has

some patents on the machine side of conversational programming.
There a few PC based conversational programs out there. I will

not

shamlessly plug my conversational lathe software. Contact me

offlist

if you what to learn more about it.

Wayne

Bill,

Haas resently paid Hurco some big bucks in a patent law settlement to
use conversational programming on their controls :~) Seems Hurco has
some patents on the machine side of conversational programming.

Ref:

ticker=HURC&script=410&layout=6&item_id=110480

Funny thing - The Haas website does not mention this.



There a few PC based conversational programs out there. I will not
shamlessly plug my conversational "Lathe Quick Code" software.
Contact me offlist if you what to learn more about it.

Wayne




--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., wanliker@a... wrote:

When this list was first started there was quite a lot about

Conversational

CNC, but nothing since, for a long time.

Would someone undertake explaining to me and the list, what, and

why

Conversational CNC is desirable, its advantages and disadvantages.

Also would any of the programmers on the list like to tackle a

project like

that? If so I would set up a group for you to handle the technical
conversations. And I would be happy ti take care of any overhead

for the

list. Hopefully this would add another option to our

members????????????

Thanks,
bill
List Mom

hugo_cnc wrote:

Hi all,

Most of people use either steppingmotors or DC-servo, I noticed that the big manufactures (fadal, haas, dmg etc.) all use AC-servo. The benefits are more dynamic, more compact, higher peak torque. Are there any step and direction AC-drives out there, or is the price too high. AC-servo motors are synchroonmotors while a regular AC-motor (like the spindle motor) is asynchronic, right? Could it be possible to use a regular AC-motor as a drive motor, these motor are very cheap and deliver a lot of power.

DC Brushless motors are really misnamed. THEY are truly synchronous motors. AC servo motors
are VERY similar to ordinary AC induction motors, and they ARE asynchronous, as they have to be
for the induction principle to excite the rotor. The major differences are in cooling provisions and
to reduce rotor inertia.

If you had a flexible (ie. programmable) AC servo drive, you could connect a standard induction
3-phase motor. It may not perform quite as well as a proper servo motor, but probably would
do fine. You'd need to pull out the internal fan and supply a "boxer" fan to provide cooling.
A long, narrow motor would probably be better for the inertia situation. You'd need to provide
an encoder with the exact characteristics needed for the servo drive. Most of them just need an
incremental encoder with index, though.

Jon

Wayne,

Please do give us the shameless plug. It is considered acceptable for
your to explain what you have, give a price, and answer questions about
it. You just have to conduct actual transactions off the list.

Tim
[Denver CO]

My friend uses them and swears by them and not at them.

--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., wanliker@a... wrote:

When this list was first started there was quite a lot about

Conversational

CNC, but nothing since, for a long time.

Would someone undertake explaining to me and the list, what, and

why

Conversational CNC is desirable, its advantages and disadvantages.

Hi Bill. A few years back I used the Bridgeport Proto trak

conversions where I worked. They are conversational and for short
run or prototype they could not be beat. All you need to do is follow
the menu and answer the questions! After years of using them, it
sounded like a steady stream of beeps (beeps everytime you press a
key). Mill and drill programs only took minutes to write! I really
think that it would great if someone would (could?) write such a
program! Thanks! Rick
Ps Cannot really remember any disadvantages.

Item # 1784625512

This is a square column mill that may be suitable for CNC conversion.

Bill -

I ran across this site recently:


Looks like an interesting approach...


Regards,

Carlos Guillermo
VERVE Engineering & Design

Okay. I'll pose the design to a few folk that I know and see what they
say about the EMC running it. It will not be programmed with polar
coordinates at this point.

Ray

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Polar Coordinates CNC?

<s>

My interest was actually sparked in making a small bench top machine. ?
I'm thinking 12x12 inches rectangle (on the turntable), maybe less. ?6
inch Z height. ?Rack and pinion on the X and Z w/B-W skate wheel
guides, and a large spur gear and pinion w/ motor mounted vertically,
underneath the turntable. disk overhang protects the moving parts from
dust and swarf. Angle Iron/channel frame. ?Might be a kick-butt kind of
kit or entry level machine with a router motor installed.

Best Regards, ? ? ?Fred Smith- IMService

Fred, I have to agree with the other Ray H. A Polar
machine/software making a move from X(1) to X(2) must
calculate every position along the path, whereas a
Recti-linear machine merely has to say' "Am I at X(2)
yet?... no, well, then add another pulse at the X-axis."
Now, it's true, that in a Rect. machine/software,
interpolating a circular move, the program must calculate
every point on the path, but so must a Polar
machine/software. Polar machines must, of necessity be more
complex. I trained o a FANUC 120-iL Robot Welder at the
Lincoln Electric School in Cleveland, OH, a couple of years
ago, and that was one complex machine. Six axes, and four
different reference frames (points of view). Fortunately,
the programming was done via a Pendant, so it was
relatively easy... But the machine was complex. It was
really fearsome, to watch that robot welding, just thinking
about all the calculations it had to be making every few
microseconds.

RayHex

----------

From: Fred Smith <imserv@...>
To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Polar Coordinates CNC?
Date: Sunday, November 03, 2002 8:06 PM

--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., Ray Henry <rehenry@u...>

wrote:

along that vector so in effect it is a polar move. I

can't for the

life of me see how specifying three angles and a

distance would be more

efficient or would somehow alter the fundamental

thinking about

milling or turning.

It's the machine that is simpler.

Think of a turntable (like a lazy susan) with the part

mounted in

place on the turntable. The rotation is C axis

Now place a single horizontal linear axis parallel to the

face of the

turntable (X) above the work piece, and mount a Vertical

Z axis onto

the X. (R is not a valid CNC linear axis so I will refer

to it as X.)

The machine is simplified to a single linear X and a

bearing for C.

Instead of at least 4 precision linear guide components

for a linear

gantry style machine, you reduce it to 2 (shortest

possible) plus the

bearing (Actually only 1 if you use a dove tail

arrangement like a

Bishop-Wisecarver rail). The Z axis is the same

mechanism in this

case.