Re: A Plethora of Questions Regarding C14 Astrophotography
Dave, Sorry but it did sound like you were looking at just starting.
For your multi-day field setup you may be interested in a Telegizmos cover. I have used one for my C-11/Mach1 for continuous months over a three year period of time with no issues.
I am curious as to why you believe that the C-14 will be difficult to guide?
regards, Ron K.
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Re: A Plethora of Questions Regarding C14 Astrophotography
Have a meeting I need to get to but just a few comments from one who started out using a C14 for astro photos.
Number one.... If you can, get the absolute best mount you ever think you're going to need..... ever! ?Pay the bucks, do it right, will save you in the end.
Second make sure your scope is faststar ready and buy a Hyperstar for it from Starizona. ?it makes getting into astro photography a snap ( well lots easier than trying to image at 3000+mm.... even with a reducer F7 ?requires much longer exposures than f2 with a hyperstar.
Do that and you'll start out having fun and getting some very good stuff vs being very very frustrated. ?You'll be getting great pictures while learning the ropes.
Have to run, but that's my 2 cents.
Al
Al Acker
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 2:14 AM, <dhank1ns@...> wrote:
?
I'm interested in astrophotography using a C14.? I would need to transport the C14 though as my condominium lacks a suitable setup location.? Due to portability requirements, I was leaning towards the C11 but I've heard rumors that the C14 is, in fact, a small scope...
So with this in mind - portable astrophotography using the C14 - I've got quite a few questions I've compiled after doing some Internet research on the topic.? Any advice/opinions on the following questions are much appreciated.
1) Mount - Is the ASA DDM60pro really suitable for C14 astrophotography or would I be much better off with an AP 1100GTO?? Dale Liebenberg? - ?- uses the ASA DDM60pro and seems to achieve good results... but the 28kg maximum payload for the DDM60pro worries me.? Moreover, Dale's C14 is housed in a remote observatory and thus is somewhat shielded from wind.? To the extent that a DDM60pro is sensitive to wind under high loads, my field setup would obviously be much more prone to wind-induced instability.
2) Corrector Plate Reflection Halo - Dennis di Cicco's review of the C14 in the February 2011 issue of Sky and Telescope noted that bright stars sometimes cause halos due to reflection off the corrector plate.? An example of this is shown here:
However, the only mention I could find about?corrector plate reflection halos is the S&T review.? In practice, are reflection halos an issue to be concerned about? 3) Celestron's EdgeHD Reducer - I've read that the EdgeHD reducer is somewhat difficult to use.? What are the issues associated with the reducer?
4) Cooling - For portable use, are?cooling fans (e.g., TEMP-est) necessary?? If installing TEMP-est fans onto a C14 EdgeHD, is any drilling of the OTA required?? 5) OAG and Guide Stars - How difficult is it to find a guide star using an OAG at f/11?? I was thinking that Innovations Foresight's ONAG () might be a better solution.? Does anyone have experience with the ONAG?
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
Dave
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Re: A Plethora of Questions Regarding C14 Astrophotography
Thanks all.
A little more information to help guide the discussion: 1. I'm not interested in beginning astrophotography.? Sorry if I gave?this impression. 2. Although I may eventually be interested in the Hyperstar configuration, at present my interest is imaging at native f/11 or at f/7.7 with the reducer. 3. I anticipate extreme difficulty guiding the C14.? I really don't think I can get away with a guide scope.? Hence my interest in the ONAG. 4. The "halos" I'm specifically interested in knowing about are those that Dennis di Cicco reported as originating from the EdgeHD corrector plate.? The only mention that I've read of halos originating off the corrector plate is the S&T review... so perhaps this is a non-issue.? But if you've heard about such halos or have personally encountered them I'd like to know about it. 5. I will be using a large chip CCD - perhaps the KAF-16803 but likely an interline such as the KAI-11002 or similar ilk. 6. And sadly, my condominium is such that any onsite observing is literally impossible - no space/deck/roof? on my condo, no balcony, lots of tall trees in the surrounding common grounds and bright lights everywhere.? So it is likely that I'll be making multi-day trips out to eastern Washington (I live near Seattle, Washington) to take images. 7. And thanks for the multiple warnings about the C14 weight - yes it's huge (bulky) and heavy (48 lbs).? So my initial impression is that it's crazy to haul that scope around.? But a few brave souls do so and, honestly, lifting the C14 onto its mount is what scares me the most.? These fears have been allayed by Greg Nowell's excellent - and humorous - video.? And besides... if the bulk of my imaging is going to come from multi-day trips, the additional inconvenience of the C14 over the C11 becomes less of an issue for me.? But I still haven't made up my mind on this and am leaning towards the C11.
Dave
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Re: A Plethora of Questions Regarding C14 Astrophotography
Dave, With respect if you are just starting to learn astrophotography you need to simplify your setup significantly. Here are a few suggestions in no particular order. a. The most important component is the mount. I have an AP Mach1 that works great with a C-11 as well as my little 110mm refractor. In fact is easier to get excellent results with the low weight refractor and is especially easier to select suitable guide stars with my ST-4000 XCM camera (which does not break the bank and eliminates the need for a separate guide scope). b. I can barely handle the C-11. As stated in other replies the C-14 is a beast. c. If you think you need a focal reducer for your objects of interest?get a shorter fl scope instead. d. Greatly simplify your camera/guiding setup. A dedicated guide scope is good but it is also another component to setup/align every time. e. Take the time to research and?study the software you will need. The learning curve is steep.
regards, Ron K
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Re: A Plethora of Questions Regarding C14 Astrophotography
I own a C14 on an AP1100. Both are in theory portable, but frankly I would only take them into the boonies if it is for more than one night. For more casual portability I would suggest a C11 on a lighter mount (AP900 or a Mach1?) ?as far more likely to be carried around. For DSO imaging I would strongly suggest a Hyperstar, since this ought to enable unguided imaging with subs under a minute each. Get a camera with tiny pixels and you end up with an image scale not too far from the average seeing limit. Using a modded Canon DSLR makes the imaging almost snapshooting, no long cables anywhere, no PC, no bulky batteries. OK, I exaggerate a bit, but you get the "drift". While the Hyperstar ought to keep any beginner at DSO imaging happy for at least 5 years, the C11 Edge HD really ought to be used with its custom-design reducer, at the exact distance specified by Celestron. Anything else is a compromise on what is a fine instrument. Make sure your OAG can be used without messing up the desired back focus distances, both at f11 and at the reduced focal ratio. Reflection halos from bright stars. I suspect that such comments apply to imaging with the Hyperstar at f2, not at the longer focal ratios. At f2 we just have to put up with this nuisance by avoiding bright stars in or very close to the FoV. If your condo has a flat roof, that Hyperstar will be fun.
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Re: A Plethora of Questions Regarding C14 Astrophotography
Thanks Lou. >>? Have you ever seen this beast?? It is much larger and heavier than you think.??Unless you are a body builder, I don't recommend this set-up as a transportable Yes, I'm aware of its size.? But there are those who transport this instrument.? And besides, it's a small scope :-)
Prior to watching the above video, I had completely ruled out transporting a C14.? But having watched the video, I think it's worth some consideration, though in the end, I may go with the C11.
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Re: A Plethora of Questions Regarding C14 Astrophotography
I have an observatory-mounted C14HD on a CGE-PRO?mount.? Have you ever seen this beast?? It is much larger and heavier than you think.??Unless you are a body builder, I don't recommend this set-up as a transportable imaging platform.? It is huge, awkward, and very heavy.??However, image quality is superb. ? The CGE-PRO is at it's limit with this scope and is only marginally steady enough for AP.? Look at Astro-Physics or Paramount mounts. ? I have never seen a corrector plate halo.? It is coated so well that I can barely see it. ? The Edge reducer is very heavy and positioning is essential at 146mm behind the?rear of the scope.? Otherwise, no problem. ? Temp-est fans are essential.? No drilling required.? Very easy to install.? I use dew heaters and a dew shield -- essential in my climate. ? Suggest a small 80mm light-weight refractor for guiding. ? I would emphasize that this is a big, long focal-length scope, and AP with it will not be easy.??Unless you have lots of prior experience, think in terms of smaller, shorter fl, more easily transportable. scopes. ? Clear skies.?? Lou ?
To: C14_EdgeHD@... From: dhank1ns@... Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 01:14:44 -0800 Subject: [C14_EdgeHD] A Plethora of Questions Regarding C14 Astrophotography
?
I'm interested in astrophotography using a C14.? I would need to transport the C14 though as my condominium lacks a suitable setup location.? Due to portability requirements, I was leaning towards the C11 but I've heard rumors that the C14 is, in fact, a small scope...
So with this in mind - portable astrophotography using the C14 - I've got quite a few questions I've compiled after doing some Internet research on the topic.? Any advice/opinions on the following questions are much appreciated.
1) Mount - Is the ASA DDM60pro really suitable for C14 astrophotography or would I be much better off with an AP 1100GTO?? Dale Liebenberg? - ?- uses the ASA DDM60pro and seems to achieve good results... but the 28kg maximum payload for the DDM60pro worries me.? Moreover, Dale's C14 is housed in a remote observatory and thus is somewhat shielded from wind.? To the extent that a DDM60pro is sensitive to wind under high loads, my field setup would obviously be much more prone to wind-induced instability.
2) Corrector Plate Reflection Halo - Dennis di Cicco's review of the C14 in the February 2011 issue of Sky and Telescope noted that bright stars sometimes cause halos due to reflection off the corrector plate.? An example of this is shown here:
However, the only mention I could find about?corrector plate reflection halos is the S&T review.? In practice, are reflection halos an issue to be concerned about?
3) Celestron's EdgeHD Reducer - I've read that the EdgeHD reducer is somewhat difficult to use.? What are the issues associated with the reducer?
4) Cooling - For portable use, are?cooling fans (e.g., TEMP-est) necessary?? If installing TEMP-est fans onto a C14 EdgeHD, is any drilling of the OTA required??
5) OAG and Guide Stars - How difficult is it to find a guide star using an OAG at f/11?? I was thinking that Innovations Foresight's ONAG (http://www.innovationsforesight.com/) might be a better solution.? Does anyone have experience with the ONAG?
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
Dave
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A Plethora of Questions Regarding C14 Astrophotography
I'm interested in astrophotography using a C14.? I would need to transport the C14 though as my condominium lacks a suitable setup location.? Due to portability requirements, I was leaning towards the C11 but I've heard rumors that the C14 is, in fact, a small scope...
So with this in mind - portable astrophotography using the C14 - I've got quite a few questions I've compiled after doing some Internet research on the topic.? Any advice/opinions on the following questions are much appreciated.
1) Mount - Is the ASA DDM60pro really suitable for C14 astrophotography or would I be much better off with an AP 1100GTO?? Dale Liebenberg? - ?- uses the ASA DDM60pro and seems to achieve good results... but the 28kg maximum payload for the DDM60pro worries me.? Moreover, Dale's C14 is housed in a remote observatory and thus is somewhat shielded from wind.? To the extent that a DDM60pro is sensitive to wind under high loads, my field setup would obviously be much more prone to wind-induced instability. 2) Corrector Plate Reflection Halo - Dennis di Cicco's review of the C14 in the February 2011 issue of Sky and Telescope noted that bright stars sometimes cause halos due to reflection off the corrector plate.? An example of this is shown here: However, the only mention I could find about?corrector plate reflection halos is the S&T review.? In practice, are reflection halos an issue to be concerned about? 3) Celestron's EdgeHD Reducer - I've read that the EdgeHD reducer is somewhat difficult to use.? What are the issues associated with the reducer? 4) Cooling - For portable use, are?cooling fans (e.g., TEMP-est) necessary?? If installing TEMP-est fans onto a C14 EdgeHD, is any drilling of the OTA required?? 5) OAG and Guide Stars - How difficult is it to find a guide star using an OAG at f/11?? I was thinking that Innovations Foresight's ONAG (http://www.innovationsforesight.com/) might be a better solution.? Does anyone have experience with the ONAG?
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
Dave
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Re: Mars - February 17, 2014
Where is the "jelly donut"??<g> (the rock dislodged?by?rover)
Stan???
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Wow! Christopher Go has nothing over you. Stan
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Seeing was pretty good for a change when this 3 minute image was made: Brian
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Seeing was excellent last night! The first time in quite some time I could boast that. Europa is seen to the right of the GRS: Brian
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Beautiful!!
I am so jealous!
great work.
Stan
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Nice seeing for a while when this 10 minute image was taken:
Brian
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Re: Jupiter 01/08/2014 from DEC
Hi,
Have a look here for an in deep discussion of planetary color
imaging :
Best
Christian
Le 21/01/2014 02:01, maadscientist@... a ¨¦crit?:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hey Stan,
I agree with what you said. But, the monitors we use and the
images we process in Photoshop (or whichever program) are set to
display pictures in the human visual acuity, around 60% green, 30%
red and 10% blue. So even if you do narrowband (and I do), the
"narrow" nm spectrum is mapped to the wider visual spectrum. S2 to
red, HAlpha to green, OIII to blue, (the hubble palatte) and
displayed in those percentages.
Deep sky imagers "try" and get the color correct by matching the
color balance to a G2V star, like our sun. Hey, I agree, it is
still not very accurate, and I goose stuff all the time, hence why
my buddy calls me "Captain Crunch". However, I do believe that
most people that do planetary and deep sky RGB and Bayer images
are locked in to the human visual prsentation by the filters that
are used, 400-700 nm, human vision, and the programs that process
them, transmissive color, RGB for human visual. You can swap chann
els, insert narrowband, add Infrared, but essentially you are
making a false color image that is mapped into the normal visual
spectrum percentages.
So for general color correctness, a red filter that captures
photons in the red zone of the electromagnetic spectrum for human
visual cone response is considered visually correct for a
transmissive color device (your monitor). Same for green and blue.
When you add an IR pass to the red channel, or substitute the IR
for the red filter, you have created a false color image and it
must be labeled in such a matter that the viewer knows he/she is
seeing data outside the visual range.
Dan L
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Brian,
That is a very good start!? I was out at 5am and seeing stunk here in Decatur.
Dan L
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Re: Jupiter 01/08/2014 from DEC
Hey Stan,
I agree with what you said. But, the monitors we use and the images we process in Photoshop (or whichever program) are set to display pictures in the human visual acuity, around 60% green, 30% red and 10% blue. So even if you do narrowband (and I do), the "narrow" nm spectrum is mapped to the wider visual spectrum. S2 to red, HAlpha to green, OIII to blue, (the hubble palatte) and displayed in those percentages.
Deep sky imagers "try" and get the color correct by matching the color balance to a G2V star, like our sun. Hey, I agree, it is still not very accurate, and I goose stuff all the time, hence why my buddy calls me "Captain Crunch". However, I do believe that most people that do planetary and deep sky RGB and Bayer images are locked in to the human visual prsentation by the filters that are used, 400-700 nm, human vision, and the programs that process them, transmissive color, RGB for human visual. You can swap channels, insert narrowband, add Infrared, but essentially you are making a false color image that is mapped into the normal visual spectrum percentages.
So for general color correctness, a red filter that captures photons in the red zone of the electromagnetic spectrum for human visual cone response is considered visually correct for a transmissive color device (your monitor). Same for green and blue. When you add an IR pass to the red channel, or substitute the IR for the red filter, you have created a false color image and it must be labeled in such a matter that the viewer knows he/she is seeing data outside the visual range.
Dan L
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Seeing was pretty good when this 8 minute image was taken:
Brian
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Lou Halikman