----- Original Message -----

From: paulatkinson22

To: C14@...

Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 2:01 AM

Subject: [C14] C14 vs Meade 12"

Many people asked if I would post my OPINION of the C14 vs the Meade
12" LX200 (non-GPS) that I own.? The original post wanted to know
which scope was better having only $7000 to spend.? I reluctantly
agreed to post this after so many responded.? Please understand that
these are my impressions and experience with each scope and my own
thoughts and viewpoints.? Each scope has strong and weak points.?

THE SCOPES:

My Meade is approximately 4 years old and the C14 was bought new in
February 2002 with the Fastar Optics and the new Carbon color tube.?
Both are housed in my garage on JMI wheely bars and used on my
driveway.

OPTICS:

The Celestron is the clear winner here.? Star test are near perfect
for a SCT.? Diffraction patterns in and out of focus are text book.?
After a minor collimation issue out of the box it has been perfect
since.? 2" of extra ap doesn't hurt either.? Views of clusters and
galaxies are what you dream of with sprial arms and the bridge
showing in objects like M51.? The Celestron is truly an Observatory
grade instrument when it comes to optics. The Meade has great optics
as well but they cannot hold up to the test against the Celestron.?
Views in the Meade are also impressive but here the extra ap of the
Celestron will make all the difference as will the better optics.

FIT and FINISH:

Meade is the clear winner here.? The Meade OTA and assembly are first
rate.? I could find no major flaws in the finish.? The blue OTA is
beautiful.? Meade also uses a satin black vs. the Celestron using a
black crackle style finish.? This finish is sligtly shiny on the
Meade.? All screws and assembly look carefully done.? On the other
hand my Celestron has a few problems.? In several areas the black
crackle paint is over sprayed so heavy in some areas that it left
rough patches that are clearly visible.? Also, there are several
areas where dings and blemishes in the metal appear to have been just
painted over.? Some corners on the rear of the OTA are more rounded
and then suddenly become very sharp or flattened.? My focuser also
looks sloppily assembled (although it works flawless).? Here there is
clearly glue/silicone of some sort present that seeped out around the
focuser assembly where it attaches to the scope.? The Meade dust
cover has felt all the way around the inside.? The Celestron only has
three small pieces. They will become worn over time taking it off and
on and will need to be replaced.? There are other things but I don't
want to write a book.? This may all sound minor and many will point
out that the Optics are all that count.? True the optics are clearly
the most important.? However, I say that you wouldn't accept a NEW
car off the lot with dents and scratches just because the engine ran
perfect.? Celestron clearly needs to catch up here (at least on my
scope).

MOUNT:

This is a tricky area.? Again, only for simplicity sake, I say that
Meade has the edge.? It is easy to align, tracks realatively well out
of the box and the goto is VERY good.? I have my C14 on a Losmandy
G11 with Gemini(also brand new in February).? Do not get the
Celestron mount.? It is junk (just my opinion).? The G11 is the
smallest mount I would consider and only for visual.? The Losmandy
200 or AP900/1200 is a much better choice if you plan to try
photo/CCD unless you are in a very protected enviornment.? The
downside to GEM mounts is that they are very quirky.? They require a
much more precise alignment and multiple extra alignments to really
get them on track.? Once done they operate very well.? That can be
said for the AP900 and 1200 I have used.? They cost more but are
still inherent to the GEM problems nonetheless.? However, they are
much more precise than the Losmandy and much more capable of carrying
the 14.? The Meade, on the other hand, I simply pick two stars and
away I go. In Meades HP mode, it is VERY accurate.? If you can't see
it, it isn't because it isn't there, it is because you can't see it.?
GEM mounts also require more assembly, extra weights, tube balance
issues, more cables and wires, and more setup time.? They don't
travel well in my opinion compared to the Meade having taken both to
the Winter Star Party in the Keys and others around the country.? The
downside to the Meade is that with a fork assembly the scope is much
bulkier and heavier as a whole unit to hoist and mount.? I prefer to
use mine in Alt/As vs. the wedge.? Again, this is really a personal
choice.? I would say to a novice you are better off with the Meade.

EASE OF USE:

If setup permanently, or say JMI wheely bars in and out of a garage,
both scopes are equal.? If taking in the field, the fact that the
Meade breaks down into basically two pieces, the OTA/Forkarm and
Tripod, give it the advantage in setup time.? The GEMS require much
more assembly, putting on and taking off weights, balancing the
scope, ect...? I do not like the Losmandy hand controller compared to
the Meade.? You have to push more buttons to get it to the proper
menu, object, goto.? However, the AP's are much better in this regard
and are equal to the Meade in friendliness.? Once aligned they are
about equal in terms of ease of use.

VALUE:

The Meade is hard to beat.? At $4000+ it is a lot of scope.? The
Celestron 14 OTA cost that much alone.? Add a G11 with Goto and you
are talking near $8000 with taxes, then add extra counterweights,
motor covers, and other needed extras and the cost continues to
rise.? That is a lot of money.? Pick an AP900 or Losmandy 200 and you
are $11,000+ and it goes up from there for the AP1200.? Clearly, the
Meade is the winner in value.

FINAL THOUGHTS:

I hope everyone remembers that these are my personal impressions with
the the two scopes I currently own.? I am sure that there are others
that have differing views.? As such, my views are just that, my views
and not the final word.? That being said, if I had only $7000 to
spend, as was the original question posted, I would buy the 12" and
get a lot of extra's with the other $3000 or so, you have left.? If
money is not an object then clearly the C14 with a great mount will
give you the views that take your breath away. In any event I love
both scopes and don't want to get rid of either one.





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