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Eastbound at 1520 mixed freight with five 8200s. I think they were
the 42, 16, 47, 32, and 24.
Doug Hately

Doug, go to then follow the
"company history" link.
============
Rainer Auer
Morinville, AB
============

I just did a quick search and yes, CP archives address has changed. Its now
at . Good luck

Doug Hately wrote:

I had a URL for CP Archives which was cparchives@....

Has this been changed?

Doug Hately

Dale makes some good points:you build sidings specifically for work
trains,
perhaps disconnecting switches in the late fall and reconnecting in
early spring. - there is an obsession in this area to tear up every bit
of track not being used regularly.

absurdity of a train in one direction being
too long for most or all passing tracks and so causing all opposing
trains
to wait for however long it takes -- absurd as this sounds, I've heard
it happen on my scanner.

It is presumed the profit margins in trucking were not sufficient---
judging by the safety defects found at each blitz, truckers are not
making enough profit today to maintain their equipment to minimum safety
standards.

much of the traffic - both car and truck - MUST be moved to
the rails. Or is stark terror just turning people on?---I wonder if
something similar to the Autorail idea (Washington D.C. to Florida)
may soon find a place in the Windsor-Quebec corridor???

As populations grow and intensify into urban areas, it will become more
obvious that people cannot be given individual control of a vehicle (car
or truck) on public roads. There are too many 'nuts' out there.
What we call 'road rage' today will be total road anarchy tomorrow.

Doug Hately

Continued from June 6, 1999.
CP Rail Port Coquitlam Yard, B.C.
Going back to 1985.
November 10, 1985
Eastend of yard -yard engine GP-9 1580
Westend of yard- yard engine GP-9 1581
1615-Container train arriving from east-SD40-2's 5566-5625. Total 70
cars.
November 12, 1985
Same location:
1220 Via/CN Super Continental from east to Vancouver:
FP-A 6557-Via FP9-A 6637. Remarks: unit 6557 ex CP 1400
series-renumbered to Via.
Consist:
Stainless-steel baggage dormitory lettered Via, ex CP
Dayniter 5726 ex CN
3242 ex CN
Stainless-steel "Skyline" 517 ex CP
Edenwold-duplex-roomette sleeper ex CN
Elrose-duplex-roomette sleeper ex CN
Total 6 cars-a very light train.

Forward to 1986
CP Rail
New Westminster-transfer for Port Coquitlam
GP-9 8836-GP-38 3000
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
June 12, 1986
Via/CP "Canadian" from east to Vancouver(1210PM) A-B-A units Total 19
cars.
GP-9's 8672-8677-8676 and van deadhead westbound.
GP-9's 8663-8665-8666 and van deadhead on southwest Line-Westminster sub
either to CP Mayfair Intermodal terminal, Sapperton, or New Westminster.

June 15, 1986
1155-coal extra from east-SD40-2's 5858-5805-6055-5713-5924. Transfer
will take train to Pacific Coast Bulk Terminals at Port Moody. Pacific
Coast Terminals a CP Limited subsidiary through CP subsidiary
Consolidated Mining and Smelting(Cominco) Another PCT ocean terminal
facility is located at New Westminster.
Westend yard engine-GP-9 1582.
Speaking of Pacific Coast Terminals-After the Second World War, a few ex
United States Army 0-6-0's were purchased for yard service by PCT.
Today, one is in service at Calgary's Heritage Park.

Trip to Calgary, Alberta.
June 18, 1986
Enroute to Vancouver Airport, passed BC Hydro Railway's New Westminster
diesel shops-in yard spotted CP GP-9 yard engines 1579-1589.
Flew Pacific Western Vancouver-Calgary.
Not too much time to roam around CP Rail, but a few sightings.
1045-SW1200RS 8100 on Calgary-Edmonton line.
1730- CP Palliser Station:
Eastend of station: Via passenger equipment -all ex CP
Two Manor series stainless-steel sleepers, others MacKenzie Manor, Manor
series unknown, stainless-steel sleeper "Chateau Rigaud" duplex-roomette
sleeper.
Stayed at CP's "Palliser Hotel" with westbound and freights from west
all night.
Observed "Phoenix Transportation" units a CP long distance trucking
subsidiary-units same paint scheme as CP Express, CP Transport, Smith
Transport , Highland Transport etc.
Calgary, Alberta
June 19, 1986
Enroute to airport:
Three SD40-2s on northbound freight to Edmonton
Airport-spent some time at CP Hotel's "Chateau Airport" Hotel.
Airport Terminal
1440 CPA B-737 Jet Empress-'Empress of Prince Rupert" arriving. Fleet
number #721.
1530-CPA Vancouver-Calgary-Toronto-arriving from Vancouver-DC-10
Wide-body Empress-"Empress of Expo 86"
in #900 series.
1555- CPA B-737 Jet Empress pulling up to terminal.
Flew back to Vancouver on late afternoon Pacific Western flight.
To be continued.
Don Scott-Coquitlam, B.C.

CPR
Westend of Port Coquitlam Yard, B.C.
June 3, 1999
GP-9 1553-a new unit to this area-Remarks "Candy Apple Red" RCMP Musical
Ride Logo, unit lettered CP Rail System. Unit in yard service at Port
Coquitlam. Have not seen this unit for past few days.
June 4, 1999
Westend yard engines MU'd working remote-GP-9's 1583-8215
June 5, 1999
1030-Same units as above switching westend-unit 8215 has RCMP Musical
Ride Logo.
1111-Transfer for southwest line Westminster sub-to Sapperton and likely
New Westminster:
SD-40 5402-SD40-2 6042-HATX 104(unabe to make out model-either GP-38,
GP-40 or SD-40) Leased unit looks recently outshopped painted maroon and
blue.Good amount of BC Rail empties forest products cars and bulk head
cars.
1120- Westbound transfer for downtown Vancouver-SD-40's 5411-5414 all
container and double-stacks-Trans-Pacific containers from many shipping
lines. Remark: 5414 dual-flag scheme. A few grain cars including Soo.
1127-Westend yard engines-MU'd working remote: GP-9 1613-SW1200RS 1239.
Remarks unit 1239 downtown Vancouver yard engine.
June 7, 1999
Westend yard engines: GP-9's 1627-8213 working remote. Remarks: 1627
candy apple red lettered CPRS, 8213 candy apple red.
1029-Westbound transfer to downtown Vancouver with containers and
double-stacks:
Units were SD-40 5402-SD40-2 6042 Trans-Pacific traffic.
Mid-mornings seems to have a "window" in efffect, except for transfers,
that is traffic arriving from east.

Don Scott-Coquitlam, B.C.

Construction is under way on a new connecting track from CP's MacTier sub to
the Galt sub. This is being built in the northwest quadrant of the junction
and will allow movements from Vaughan and Alliston to and from Obico and
points west without having to back up or run around their train. The north
approach to the old Weston Rd bridge has been removed, and the connections
can be made without having to remove either CN's abandoned Weston station or
the derelict grain elevators adjacent to the Galt sub. The new diamonds to
cross CN's Weston sub are in place, signal installation is in progress, and
the roadbed has been excavated. Once completed, this should allow CP to
remove one set of diamonds from the Galt sub and 2 from the current Weston
sub crossing.

Ken Pebesma

Years ago, I was doing a bit of train watching at Milwaukee Junction
(Detroit) on Grand Trunk Western and observed a four-unit light movement of
GP38s, in ASCENDING consecutive order! I suspect that a creative hostler
had something to do with this. Alas, I didn't have my camera with me that
day.

Trip to Maritimes-October 1986-Observing CP Rail and Canadian Pacific
Airlines.
October 15, 1986
Departed Vancouver on overnight CPA B-737 Jet Empress non-stop to
Toronto. A fast connection to connecting CPA flight #152 another B-737
Jet Empress "Empress Of New France" a non-stop Toronto-Halifax, N.S.
This particular aircraft a former Eastern Provincial, one airline CP had
taken over in the late 1980's. Repainted to CPA's new paint scheme which
was unveiled in late 1985. The aircraft interior was still in the EPA
theme. At Halifax mid morning a good number of CP aircraft at the
terminal, Montreal flights, Newfoundland flights, CP B-737's to and from
Prince Edward Island etc., plus turbo-prop aircraft of Air Atlantic 45%
owned by CP, a Maritime connector to CPA's main-line services. Connected
to Air Atlantic and flew to Moncton, N.B., my former home town. At
Moncton, CPR's former Montreal-Saint John "Atlantic Limited" now under
Via Rail was entended right through to Halifax. In 1986 former CPR
stainless-steel equipment was replaced by Via(ex CN) cars, except the
Scenic-Dome "Park" series. A few of the ex CP "Park" series operating on
the "Atlantic"-"Kootenay Park", "Riding Mountain Park","Evangeline
Park".
A Quick Trip to CP Rail At Saint John, N.B. October 24, 1986
West Saint John Ocean Terminals:
Yard power working MU- MLW/Alco RS-23's 8046-8019-8029.
New Lancaster Yard-at Lancaster:
Yard engines: Working MU-MLW/Alco's RS-23's 8036-8042.
At CP Rail Saint John West(new station and offices) CP Bulk Systems
tractor and tanker.
At eastend of new Lancaster yard-new diesel servicing shops-new
Intermodal terminal.
Motive power outside diesel shop -east end: Three MLW/Alco RS-23's 8000
series.
MLW/Alco M-636's 4719, 4700 series, 4700 series.
October 25, 1986.
Drove to Hillsborough, N.B. the centre for excursion railway "Salem &
Hillsborough Railroad.". A number of pieces of ex CPR equipment. Inside
locomotive shop ex CPR 4-4-0 29 formerly on CP's Norton-Chipman, N.B.
mixed passenger service, that worked alongside 4-4-0's 136 and 144.
Departed back to Vancouver, B.C. from Moncton on CPA subsidiary Air
Atlantic to Halifax, and boarded CPA's Flight #77
another B-737 Jet Empress departing Halifax at 1730 via Toronto to
Vancouver.
At Halifax observed CP flight #151 the aircraft still in Eastern
Provincial paint scheme. Our CP aircraft on Flight #77 was still in the
old color scheme, orange, burgandy and silver aluminum. Prior to
departing Halifax for Vancouver, a CP B-737 Jet Empress arrived from
Deer Lake, Newfoundland and Sydney, N.S. at 1645 with a short stop at
Halifax, and continuing non-stop to Montreal. At Toronto wide-assortment
of CP aircraft including wide-body DC-10 Jumbo Empresses.
To Be Continued-At Vancouver, B.C.

Don Scott-Coquitlam, B.C.

Perhaps something is going on with yard power?
Yesterday London was being switched by 1213-1268-1270. Unheard of!

Ian Platt

I won't copy the previous postings on this as they were fairly lengthy, but
to add something to what Dale Wilson said, it will certainly need a change
in public or government attitudes to move more business onto the rails
although this may be influenced by the increasing cost of highway
construction. However I suspect it is a fair way distant in Ontario.
One of the reasons that EWS is rapidly gaining business in the UK is that
the "Freeway" system there is becoming choked and the current government
(who have a huge majority and may be in power for a while) have indicated
they do not intend to solve the problem by building more roads. It is so
bad that out on the open road things now often come to a halt, not just on
the M25 around London or near the M5/M6 intersection in Birmingham which
have been problem spots for years. This is starting to affect JIT delivery
and shippers are starting to look to rail again because they have better
reliability (something that was never the case when BR ran the trains). It
could happen here but I suspect it will take a while.

Ian Platt

Hello All:

Heading home last night I heard a meet taking place at Kinnear:

0236 StL&H 735 CPRS 5655, 5645. 18 auto parts cars

0247 StL&H 734 CPRS 5729, StL&H 5649. 28 mixed freight

They must have been in the process of changing the yard power,
as there were 4 switchers present rather than the usual pair:

CP 8161, 8165, 8162, 1273.

That's all :o)

#######################################
Greg Smith
lgrsmith@...
Hamilton, ON
#######################################

From: Doug Hately <cprnut@...>

John Reay wrote:

From: "John Reay" <reay@...>

Doug,

I don't think CP is ever going to capture more than a tiny fraction of truck
trailer traffic passing through your community on Hwy 401. Here are some
reasons why it'll never happen.

1. The Belleville sub is single track and cannot accomodate enough
additional
traffic to make any significant impact.
2. The Smith's Falls crew change is not conducive to truck
competitive timings.
3. CN competition
4. Independent truckers
5. A lot of the truck traffic you see on the 401 is destined for
intermediate
points, and cannot economically be serviced by rail.
6. A lot of truck traffic is over the road from Chicago. Unless it
is already
on a flatcar leaving Chicago, it's not likely to be on the rails between
Toronto and Montreal.
7. A significant number of trucks on the 401 are actually drayage,
to or from
the intermodal yards of both CN and CP.

John makes some interesting points but I think some further discussion
might be of interest.

1. Re. the capacity of the Belleville Sub. I think there is room for a
few more trains per day. CP was running 30 trains/day 40 years ago with
train orders, steam power and ABS. Surely diesels and CTC can do better.
I should know how many trains per day on average run on the Belleville
(it is in my back yard) but can only guess it may average 25 to 30.

2. The Smiths Falls crew change must be a few minutes. I would think
about the same as a coffee and stop at the WC for a truck driver.

3. CN has VIA to deal with. Would this nullify the double track
advantage? CP is double east of Smiths Falls.

CP and CN had a huge piggyback business in the 60s mostly because they
owned the truck lines. If the railways could deal with terminal
congestion, their schedules could be more competitive. What's the point
of speedy mainline running only to sit and wait to get into the
terminals? CN does a lot of this in the Pickering area.

I hope the railways persist until the next fuel crisis because a
great deal more traffic will be diverted off the roads as an economic
necessity.

Doug Hately

Have been following this string with a great deal of interest. Have some
comments and questions.

Concerning CP line capacity between Smiths Falls and Toronto, I suspect
Doug is right about there being a potential for more trains than whatever
the average is now. However, that implies that (a) you don't tie up the
existing passing tracks with work equipment; since summer work projects are
normal every summer, you build sidings specifically for work trains,
perhaps disconnecting switches in the late fall and reconnecting in early
spring; (b) those passing tracks are long enough to handle the longest
trains; (c) conversely, there is strict attention paid to the length of
trains so there is never the absurdity of a train in one direction being
too long for most or all passing tracks and so causing all opposing trains
to wait for however long it takes; (d) as new power is acquired, making
longer trains practical, a blitz program is inaugurated to lengthen
existing passing tracks and likely to create some new ones.

Question: Is the CTC system in use as up to date and efficient as possible?
Are the dispatchers able/permitted to be as efficient as possible?

The problem with the Smiths Falls (or other) crew change is not that it
takes too long, it's simply that it takes place at all, thus adding cost to
the movement of freight and making the railways less competitive. Of
course, rail operating union people will protest this, and certainly just
removing a crew change point to double the mileage covered by an individual
crew solves nothing unless accompanied by very careful planning and proper
negotiation with the unions - not always a strong point of rail management.

Question: What does it take to do this right - in a way that is practical
and fair to both employees and shareholders?

It is presumed the profit margins in trucking were not sufficient to keep
the railways interested in owning the trucks. In this "just-in-time" day of
industry dictating to the taxpayer that the public roads will provide an
infinite amount of space for rolling warehouses, the economics of trucking
are still shaky - witness the trucking companies that are no longer with us.

The intermodal terminal issue is perhaps the most important one facing
North American railways today. Despite much touted expansion of such
facilities by railways, are they really keeping up with demand? Several
years ago, on behalf of Transport 2000 Ontario, I was involved in talking
to the Ontario Trucking Association and found that intermodalism is NOT
something truckers are against, but they were/are disturbed by the
congestion and occasional downright inefficiency in getting
trailers/containers in and out of these facilities.

Apart from an active war in the Persian Gulf region, there's not likely to
be a fuel crisis for some time, measured at least in years and perhaps
decades. True, petroleum is a wasting asset that will eventually be used
up, but the current reserves and volume of usage - plus society's inability
to think past today and perhaps a little bit of tomorrow - suggests that no
one is going to have trouble finding fuel for their car, or for trucks.

VIA's presence on CN, properly handled by dispatchers, SHOULD not interfere
with train movemenbts for either company. Yes, we are approaching (and
perhaps have reached on certain portions of the Toronto-Montreal trackage)
a time when there should be a THIRD main line track plus appropriate
passing tracks in addition to being able to switch faster trains to another
track to get around slower ones. Of course, VIA would be asked to pay for
such expansion and it has no money to do so - the Transport Minister, Mr.
Collenette, has made it clear there is now an absolute limit to how much
subsidy money is available from Ottawa, never mind needs!

We kill something like 3,000 people a year on Canadian highways. Transport
Canada "boasts" the number keeps dropping, as if they had anything to do
with it, although in fairness some federal mandates are found in safer
vehicles, restraints and the like. Anyone who has driven Highway 401 to any
extent, unless they're completely insensitive to their own survival, will
surely agree much of the traffic - both car and truck - MUST be moved to
the rails. Or is stark terror just turning people on?

The province (any one, really) and municipalities could have much more to
say about this, but apparently road system expansion is so firmly fixed in
the minds of the Canadian public that to NOT build more roads is
politically incorrect. Not being able to look after the roads we have now
is not considered worthy of consideration by current politicians. The
province could find multiple ways to reduce truck traffic, and before
anyone gets on the trucking industry bandwagon claiming that the cost of
living would just be raised, please remember that you and I, at whatever
level of taxation pay to maintain those roads, however imperfectly and
truck licence fees and fuel taxes come nowhere close to paying for the
damage trucks do. In fact, there might be a case made for CAR licence fees
and fuel taxes being too high and therefore helping subsidize trucks!
Municipalities do NOT have to permit tractor-trailer sized "delivery"
trucks - which tie up traffic and bring demand for more lanes on MUNICIPAL
roads.... you get the picture. If anyone in power comes to their senses
there is a great future for a breakdown of load/warehousing industry.

Dale Wilson.
________________________________________________________
Dale Wilson <dale.wilson@...>;
Nickel Belt Rails, Box 483, Station "B", Sudbury, ON, P3E 4P6
________________________________________________________

Continued from earlier June 5, 1999
On board CPR's passenger train #39 nicknamed "Boat Train" Feburary 8,
1951.
Our train is out of Fredericton Junction enroute to McAdam enjoying the
comforts of one of CP's new streamlined ligh-weight 2200 series Deluxe
coaches.
*Symbol denotes CPR steam in tuscan red-grey-black and gold paint
scheme.
Train #39 arrived at McAdam, N.B.(a great railway town) at 2225. A
locomotive change-baggageman, conductor and trainmen continue to
Brownville Junction, Maine-a mixture of Canadian and International of
Maine crew who reside in Brownville Jct. Maine. On the head-end
semi-streamlined heavy 4-6-2 *2402 was taken off(goes eastbound next
morning to Saint John on train #40.(84 mile run Saint John-Mc
Adam).Headends were put on-express car or cars off North line, and
passenger refers with fish products from St. Andrews-a 2-8-0 switcher
performed the work. Semi-streamlined heavy 4-6-2 *2397 coupled on the
train(came west out of Saint John at 1700 on train #41 the "Atlantic
Limited" as far as McAdam. A 2-8-0 switcher coupled on the back of our
train as a helper(pusher) out of McAdam as far as St. Croix on the
Maine/New Brunswick border. While our train stopped at McAdam, observed
2-8-0 yard engines 3492, 3474 and 3637 near the station. A bustling
railway centre. A very distinctive station, waiting room, news stand, CP
hotel(upstairs) restaurant-coffee shop and a plush dining room. A
railway paradise to observe passenger trains(26) on a regular week day,
one freight after the other-main line, Mcadam-Woodstock-Aroostook, "The
North Line" which also goes into the State of Maine and connects with
CP's Aroostook Valley Railroad, and connections to the Bangor and
Aroostook. CP line from McAdam via Watts Junction to St. Andrews line
and from Watts Jct. to St. Stephen. 4-6-0 D-10 class 1006 was observed
arriving off the North line from Aroostook and Woodstock on a freight.
Finally, train #39 was out of McAdam being assisted by a helper of the
back end heading for Vanceboro, Maine. At Vanceboro, an eastbound
doublehead freight powered by 2-8-2's 5137-5357. Observed Maine Central
Alco S-2 yard engine 958 with a CP caboose. Power to take over the
westbound "Gull" from CP to Boston was Boston & Maine EMD E-7 of 3800
series. Back in the late 1940's a Maine Central 4-6-2 of 400 series
would handle the "Gull" to Bangor and Portland, where Boston & Maine
steam would takeover. The "Gull" was made up of Maine Central, Boston &
Maine head-ends and coaches, sleeping cars B&M, CP and Pullman Company.
Two hours later our train arrived at Brownville Jct. Maine. Engine crew
change, baggageman, conductor and trainmen. Brownville has a new modern
station, A connecting point with Bangor and Aroostook Railroad. At
Brownville an eastbound double-head freight powered by light 4-6-2's
2583-2597. These locomotives with a few other 2500 class only operate in
the State of Maine as far east as McAdam, N.B., west to Montreal and
south to Vermont lines. Westbound at Holeb, Maine, had a meet with
eastbound freight-semi-streamlined 2-8-2 5420. Later had meet with
eastbound passenger #40 from Montreal to Saint John. Our train #39 was
now back on the Canadian side and arrived at Megantic, Quebec-another
locomotive crew change and train crew. Observed 2-8-0 yard engine 3560
equipped with a horseshoe tender, semi-streamlined 2-8-2 5434. At
Megantic CP's Quebec Central serves the area coming in from north. At
Megantic usually westbound passenger trains #39 and #41 can be found
double-heading with a light 4-6-2 of 2200 or 2600 class all the way to
Windsor Station, Montreal. At Lennoxville, 2-8-2 5330 observed,
semi-streamlined 2-8-2 5416(solid plate pilot). Our train arrived at
Sherbrooke-a buffet-parlor car was added, plus adding a helper which
coupled onto *2397, being light 4-6-2 2600 to be a double-header to
Montreal. CPR's subsidiary operates freight and passenger through
Sherbrooke on the north/south Quebec City-Newport, Vermont route. QCR
offer through passenger cars to Boston and at one time to New York. For
Boston through cars CPR's "Alouette" day service, and overnight "Red
Wing" out of Montreal via Newport add these cars. A CP Alco S-2 switcher
switched our train. Before departing Sherbrooke, a Quebec Central
doublehead freight with light 4-6-2's 2610-2578. Quebec Central
Transportation buses service both Megantic and Sherbrooke on
long-distance routes. At Magog, Quebec 4-6-0 D-10 class 1067 was
observed on freight. Same location eastbound doublehead freight 2-8-2
5394-semi-streamlined 2-8-2 5410(solid plate pilot). Also spotted
gas-electric combination-passenger 9006 for Drummondville. Also observed
4-6-0 489. At Farnham 4-6-0 419, light modern 4-6-2 1268, yard engines
2-8-0's 3498, 3563, semi-streamlined 2-8-2 5409(solid plate
pilot)semi-streamlined 2-8-2 5417. Observed Montreal-Boston "Alouette"
day train powered by E-8 1800. Also at Farnham eastbound
Montreal-Sherbrooke passenger powered by E-8 1801.
To Be Continued at Later Date.
Don Scott-Coquitlam, B.C.

John Reay wrote:

From: "John Reay" <reay@...>

Doug,

I don't think CP is ever going to capture more than a tiny fraction of truck
trailer traffic passing through your community on Hwy 401. Here are some
reasons why it'll never happen.

1. The Belleville sub is single track and cannot accomodate enough additional
traffic to make any significant impact.
2. The Smith's Falls crew change is not conducive to truck competitive timings.
3. CN competition
4. Independent truckers
5. A lot of the truck traffic you see on the 401 is destined for intermediate
points, and cannot economically be serviced by rail.
6. A lot of truck traffic is over the road from Chicago. Unless it is already
on a flatcar leaving Chicago, it's not likely to be on the rails between
Toronto and Montreal.
7. A significant number of trucks on the 401 are actually drayage, to or from
the intermodal yards of both CN and CP.

CP's Iron Highway service seems primarily aimed at the fleet operator and is
sold on a reserved guaranteed slot basis. The trucking company pays whether or
not the service is used. Therefore the I.H. can theoretically be profitable
even with many empty spots on the train. As they have just announced a
significant expansion (longer trains rather than more trains), its performance
must be deemed satisfactory.

...John Reay, mailto:reay@...

From: Doug Hately <cprnut@...>

It is with a lot of dismay that I watch the I.H. daytime trains
running with a handful of trailers. The 401 in my area is an endless
stream of big trucks with their polluting and road damaging results.
The I.H. is full on weekends and this suggests the railway is unable to
match delivery times demanded by business today.
In the 60s, CP was moving 5000 trailers per week between Montreal
and Toronto. The potential must be H U G E for this type of traffic
today. Why can't the rails get it??? What do you think????

Doug Hately

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John makes some interesting points but I think some further discussion
might be of interest.

1. Re. the capacity of the Belleville Sub. I think there is room for a
few more trains per day. CP was running 30 trains/day 40 years ago with
train orders, steam power and ABS. Surely diesels and CTC can do better.
I should know how many trains per day on average run on the Belleville
(it is in my back yard) but can only guess it may average 25 to 30.

2. The Smiths Falls crew change must be a few minutes. I would think
about the same as a coffee and stop at the WC for a truck driver.

3. CN has VIA to deal with. Would this nullify the double track
advantage? CP is double east of Smiths Falls.

CP and CN had a huge piggyback business in the 60s mostly because they
owned the truck lines. If the railways could deal with terminal
congestion, their schedules could be more competitive. What's the point
of speedy mainline running only to sit and wait to get into the
terminals? CN does a lot of this in the Pickering area.

I hope the railways persist until the next fuel crisis because a
great deal more traffic will be diverted off the roads as an economic
necessity.

Doug Hately

Bill Miller wrote:

From: Bill Miller <bmiller@...>

methinks it might be 4507 as those C-630s came in maroon and gray and
4507 was delivered Oct. 10/68 (Dean and Hanna) while 5564 was delivered
April 28/67.(also from Dean & Hanna)

Why does one always assume Alcos must be "old". Of course there are/were many Alcos delivered after the original SD40's because of CP's dissatisfaction with them. If that date is correct, then 4507 would be last because the 5500's were 1966 or 1967.

Might it also be possible that 4507 was delivered after the CP Rail red was introduced on 4239/4242 ??

----------------------------------------------------------
Bill Miller - CPR Editor CTC Board Railroads Illustrated
----------------------------------------------------------
ICQ# 9907692
The View From Galt Station
" << MOVED !!
Canadian Pacific Railway Diesel Locomotive Roster
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I had the delivery date wrong for 4507. It was Oct. 1, 1968. CP unveiled
their "symbol train" in Montreal on Oct. 3/68. C424s 4239 and 4242 were
probably painted a couple of days before so it is probable that 4507 and
the two multi-mark locomotives were done about the same time. The
original plan was to paint the locomotives solid black with the
multi-mark on rear.
Doug Hately

Further to this discussion, what was the last CPR SD40 to be repainted into action
red?

5541

What was the last CPR diesel to hold the tuscan colours? Need dates. =)

Probably an Alco switcher around 1980 or 1981 my guess.










----------------------------------------------------------
Bill Miller - CPR Editor CTC Board Railroads Illustrated
----------------------------------------------------------
ICQ# 9907692
The View From Galt Station
" << MOVED !!
Canadian Pacific Railway Diesel Locomotive Roster
"
----------------------------------------------------------

At 09:13 PM 6/5/1999 -0400, you wrote:

From: "Manny Jacob" <railbus@...>

April, 1993???? Would you like to confirm that? That's six consecutive units!!!!
Those units were NOT brand new in 1993.

1983.

That's amazing. Do you have a scan of that, Bill?

Nope.







----------------------------------------------------------
Bill Miller - CPR Editor CTC Board Railroads Illustrated
----------------------------------------------------------
ICQ# 9907692
The View From Galt Station
" << MOVED !!
Canadian Pacific Railway Diesel Locomotive Roster
"
----------------------------------------------------------

April, 1993???? Would you like to confirm that? That's six consecutive units!!!!
Those units were NOT brand new in 1993.

That's amazing. Do you have a scan of that, Bill?

Fascinating -

Manny