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W E Miller wrote:

Seems like a waste of a lot of time and money was spent on 1057 if it is
not going to be used, particularly while 136 is down. 1057 may cost a
little more to operate than 136, but me thinks it would be money well
spent when people are expecting to see an operating steam locomotive at
SSR. Does it not make more sense to spend a little extra money now to
maintain visitor goodwill, rather than waste it later trying to regain
that? I'd personally be more inclined to visit SSR to see 1057 than to
see 136. I've seen and ridden behind and in both engines and prefer
1057.

Very much agree William. If SSR are going to try to get by with their
tiny diesel until 136 is rebuilt what on earth did they they waste their
money rebuilding 1057 only to use it occasionally.

How many on this list rode the 136-815-1057 fantrip from Toronto to
Orangeville in the '60's? I did.

No but as a lad of 11 I saw it pass through Streetsville and well
remember that day, May 1st 1960. When I saw August '60 TRAINS with it
on the cover I bought my first issue of that mag - I now have a complete
set going back to the late 40's!

I also have the LP plus Rail Innovations video of the trip. Luckily I
was old enough to enjoy 1057 and 136's rebirth in the 70's. Another
memory is riding on 1057's tender as it ran back and forth on the shop
tracks at John Street around 1970 - I think it was after its first
rebuild ready to head to the States - which luckily didn't happen!
2839 and a couple of other CPR steamers where sitting at John Street
that day too.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Tatham Phone : 519-824-4120 x2836
Senior Systems Analyst Fax : 519-766-9744
University Systems \ UC4 E-Mail : ptatham@...
Computing & Communications Services Home : RR 2, Guelph, ON, N1H 6H8
University of Guelph : 519-837-1464
Ontario, Canada, N1G 2W1 : "Mileage 44.8, Guelph
Sub"

From: W E Miller <traction@...>

Seems like a waste of a lot of time and money was spent on 1057 if it is
not going to be used, particularly while 136 is down. 1057 may cost a
little more to operate than 136, but me thinks it would be money well
spent when people are expecting to see an operating steam locomotive at
SSR. Does it not make more sense to spend a little extra money now to
maintain visitor goodwill, rather than waste it later trying to regain
that? I'd personally be more inclined to visit SSR to see 1057 than to
see 136. I've seen and ridden behind and in both engines and prefer
1057.

Using 1057 might also draw people(fans that is) who would not otherwise have
thought of visiting the SSR this summer since a trip with 136 was a 'been
there-rode that' situation, and could be the case again next summer. And
this would presumably be in addition to regular visitors.

How many on this list rode the 136-815-1057 fantrip from Toronto to
Orangeville in the '60's? I did.

Didnt ride that train, but do have the LP, so best I can do is close the
eyes and imagine.
Since my most memorable fantrip was on mostly xx rails(ends with N) list
rules dont allow me to detail it here. ( .... Temagami .... ) <g>

--

William E. Miller

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gerry Burridge - PO Box 152 - Pte.Claire-Dorval, Que. - H9R 4N9 - CANADA
<< Old Alcos Never Die, They Just Rise Up In Smoke >>
mailto: burridge@...
Railfan Summer Advisory: Do not attempt to kick cow pies when temp >20deg.
============================================================================

W E Miller wrote:

Does it not make more sense to spend a little extra money now to
maintain visitor goodwill, rather than waste it later trying to regain
that?

I agree with you totally Bill. I think it's going to cost them even more money in the long run than
if they spent the extra money now to operate 1057. They've only been open for the season two weeks
now, and I've already seen allot of flack, not just in here, but elsewhere on the net also. Not
good PR at all.

How many on this list rode the 136-815-1057 fantrip from Toronto to
Orangeville in the '60's? I did.

Sorry, no. I was at home sucking on my bottle then. :o)

Rob

Rob Sterne wrote in part:

It took them several years to get 1057 ready to run. I doubt it will take them as long to
rebuild 136, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is still out of service by this time next year.

Seems like a waste of a lot of time and money was spent on 1057 if it is
not going to be used, particularly while 136 is down. 1057 may cost a
little more to operate than 136, but me thinks it would be money well
spent when people are expecting to see an operating steam locomotive at
SSR. Does it not make more sense to spend a little extra money now to
maintain visitor goodwill, rather than waste it later trying to regain
that? I'd personally be more inclined to visit SSR to see 1057 than to
see 136. I've seen and ridden behind and in both engines and prefer
1057.

How many on this list rode the 136-815-1057 fantrip from Toronto to
Orangeville in the '60's? I did.

--

William E. Miller
________________________________________________________
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Continued From May 28, 1999
Observations From Westend CP Port Coquitlam Yard.
September 8, 1994
1105-Empty grain transfer from downtown Vancouver: GP-35's
5013-5021-SD40-2 's 5761-B unit-5771-B unit-5969-SD40-2F 9004. In
consist Soo and Milwaukee Road empties. Remarks: SD40-2 and SD40-2F
power earlier runthrough from east to Vancouver.
September 28, 1994
Same location:*Symbol indicates new candy apple red-dual flag scheme.
1200-Grain-unit train from east-either to downtown Vancouver or to
Sapperton on southwest line Westminster sub:
SD40-2's *5629-*5632-57??-57??.
September 27, 1994
1840- Westend yard engines: GP-9's 1546, 1580, 1582.
November 14, 1994
Same location
1150- Runthrough from east to southwest Westminster sub and Sapperton:
Soo SD40-2 7681-SD40-2's 5998-6040-New Amtrak FP-59 2008 from GM London,
Ont.-lettered "Amtrak California"
Remarks: Soo SD40-2 7681 in old white and red scheme(Does anyone know
about this renumbering from a 6600 series).
(I don't know if I had too much coffee-seeing number 7681)Amtrak FP-59
2008 painted dark blue-grey and yellow.
A few minutes later- Potash transfer to Sapperton in southwest line
Westminster sub:
GP-38 3001-GP-35's 5021-5002-5006.
November 21, 1994
Same location
Sulphur-unit train from east, runthrough on Vancouver line to Port
Moody: Time was 1130.
SD40-2F 9007-SD40-2's *6047-5707-B unit-5950.
November 23, 1994
SD40-2 *5622
December 3, 1994
Same location
Delaware & Hudson cars observed
1140-Westend yard engines-GP-9's 1547, 1620.
1143-power deadhead to shop from CP Mayfair Intermodal Terminal-arrived
earlier on Intermodal train from east:
SD40-2's 5718-6030-5616-5947-5815. Part of lashup units also in from
east on runthrough to Sapperton.
Three SD40-2's(numbers unknown) arrived in yard from east on doublestack
train.
December 10, 1994
Same location
1255- Power deadhead off Westminster sub for tie-up arrived earlier from
east on runthrough:
SD40-2 6038-HELM GP40-2 509-SOO SD-60 6040. Remarks: Soo SD-60 6040 old
colors-white and red. Helm 509 still in Guilford paint scheme
Grain transfer to Sapperton on Westminster sub-GP-35 5017-GP-9
8203-GP-38 3004
December 18, 1994
Same location
1430 Freight arriving from east- SD40-2's 6019-5940.
To Be Continued.
Don Scott-Coquitlam, B.C.

I thought about that but then assumed all would take it to mean coal
smoke. That 'yuk' coming out of a diesel locomotive isn't really
smoke. Maybe I should have specified. Was actually counting on comment
of the pole/pantograph mention.

Bryce Lee wrote:

--

William E. Miller
________________________________________________________
&#92; Electric Lines in Southern Ontario
&#92;
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From: Steve Waller <stevewaller@...>

In Fenruary, I heard a rumour that CP was not pleased with the way 1400
turned out and that it would be repainted. No reason given that I recall,
and I have heard nothing else.

Steve

"First thing we do, we get rid of the CN bell location."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gerry Burridge - PO Box 152 - Pte.Claire-Dorval, Que. - H9R 4N9 - CANADA
<< Old Alcos Never Die, They Just Rise Up In Smoke >>
mailto: burridge@...
Railfan Summer Advisory: Do not attempt to kick cow pies when temp >20deg.
============================================================================

Not necessarily. Most (if not all) of their promotional material indicates
operating steam. Many visitors into our site who pick up their brochures plan on
making the trip there only because of the unique chance to run behind a steam
locomotive.

I truly hope they can operate live steam this season - otherwise people going
there specifically for that will be disappointed.

Shari



Paul Tatham wrote:

Paul Tatham wrote:

My point was that a lot of heritage railways operate successfully with
diesels - WSJR for example in Ontario and there are many other examples
in the US.

First of all South Simcoe does not have a "heritage" diesel. Yes, it's an old centre cab, diesel hydraulic, but I
certainly wouldn't call it heritage.

Second of all, last time I heard WSJR's ridership was not good and they were not doing that well financially.
Their saving grace was the Guelph Junction trip, and Thomas the Tank Engine weekend.

Now, Port Stanley Terminal Rail has operated successfully for years with a small industrial 25 ton GE, but their
maintenance and operating cost are much lower. L1 uses very little fuel, parts are easy to come by, and they
don't have the additional cost of overhauling and maintaining a steam locomotive, not to mention having no full
time, paid staff at all.

I also disagree with writing off SSR's steam program after one weekend!

I don't believe anyone said that Paul. It is my understanding now diesel powered trains are going to be the norm
until 136 completed. It took them several years to get 1057 ready to run. I doubt it will take them as long to
rebuild 136, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is still out of service by this time next year.

Rob

W E Miller wrote:

If it doesn't have a trolley pole, a pantograph or smoke coming out the
stack, then it lacks character and is of little interest.

Rob Sterne wrote:

I don't know about that one. Allot of non-railfan families go to South > > Simcoe just to see steam too.

My point was that a lot of heritage railways operate successfully with
diesels - WSJR for example in Ontario and there are many other examples
in the US.
To suggest that SSR is "toast" if they don't run steam I disagree. I
also disagree with writing off SSR's steam program after one weekend!

From personal experience I recall a 611 trip out of Louisville which ran
Sat & Sun. I had tickets for Sun but found 611 cold on the Sat at NS's
yard. I was upset by this - at that time ('82) VIA still operated F
units and I was only interested in riding behind steam. On the Sunday
morning I had no trouble selling my tickets for the trip behind Southern
Green FP7's. That train's riders were interested in a train ride and
they would only be slightly less happy with the FP7's rather than steam.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Tatham Phone : 519-824-4120 x2836
Senior Systems Analyst Fax : 519-766-9744
University Systems &#92; UC4 E-Mail : ptatham@...
Computing & Communications Services Home : RR 2, Guelph, ON, N1H 6H8
University of Guelph : 519-837-1464
Ontario, Canada, N1G 2W1 : "Mileage 44.8, Guelph
Sub"

At 01:19 5/31/99 -0400, you wrote:

From: W E Miller <traction@...>

If it doesn't have a trolley pole, a pantograph or smoke coming out the
stack, then it lacks character and is of little interest.

Bil, you didn't advise "what" kind of smoke ie diesel or coal<g>

If it doesn't have a trolley pole, a pantograph or smoke coming out the
stack, then it lacks character and is of little interest.

Rob Sterne wrote:

--

William E. Miller
________________________________________________________
&#92; Electric Lines in Southern Ontario
&#92;
________&#92;____________________________________________
/____G R A N D_____R_I_V_E_R_____R_A_I_L_W_A_Y_____&#92;
|[_] [_][_][_][_][_] [][][] [_]|
|| | 626 | | 626 | ||
o------------------------------======--------------o
/|-|(o)=x=(o) xxxxxx 0|___||___||-| (o)=x=(o)|-|&#92;
========================================================

From: W E Miller <traction@...>

If it doesn't have a trolley pole, a pantograph or smoke coming out the
stack, then it lacks character and is of little interest.

So Alco's are good then right? :-)
Chris

Paul Tatham wrote:

Maybe you or the rest of us as railfans would be turned off with a
diesel on the head end of their train but I dare say most of their
customers couldn't care less what's pulling the train.

I don't know about that one. Allot of non-railfan families go to South Simcoe
just to see steam too.

Rob

While absent for most of the week, I would have thought the following would
at least have merited mention. The tentative agreement ensures continued
labour stability, as it sets the tone. From the CPR website:
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----

CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY AND CANADIAN COUNCIL OF RAILWAY OPERATING UNIONS
REACH TENTATIVE CONTRACT AGREEMENT FOR TRAIN CREWS

CALGARY - Canadian Pacific Railway (CPR) and the Canadian Council of Railway
Operating Unions (CCROU), representing approximately 4,400 train crew
personnel, today announced that a four-year contract settlement (January 1,
1999 to December 31, 2002) has been reached. The settlement is subject to
ratification by CCROU members, a process expected to take approximately five
weeks.

The CCROU is comprised of two international unions, the Brotherhood of
Locomotive Engineers (BLE) and the United Transportation Union (UTU).

The first major railway labor settlement to extend beyond 2000, the
tentative agreement provides for wage increases of two per cent in each of
the four contract years. In addition to benefit and pension improvements,
the agreement contains provisions for improved productivity by allowing
greater flexibility in training and scheduling.

CCROU(BLE)International vice-president George Hucker said, "The agreement
addresses a number of our members' issues and needs, particularly those
related to benefits and pensions."

"We are pleased that we achieved a negotiated settlement which is good for
our members and is precedent-setting in terms of pension improvements for
CPR," said CCROU(UTU) Vice-president John Armstrong.

The agreement also renews gainsharing, a pay-for-performance program
designed to improve customer service and safety as well as reduce costs.

"CPR will achieve productivity gains through this agreement. As a result of
these improvements, we were able to move forward on the union's objectives,"
said Rob Ritchie, CPR President and Chief Executive Officer. "Both sides
have achieved important gains that will enable us to work together over the
next four years to produce the kind of customer-focused service that creates
value in the marketplace."

CPR currently has national agreements in effect with all of its Canadian
unions, representing roughly 13,400 employees.

Calgary-based Canadian Pacific Railway Company, a wholly-owned subsidiary of
Canadian Pacific Limited, provides rail transportation services over a
15,000 mile network reaching most of the principal centers in Canada as well
as the U.S. midwest and northeast. CPR has assets of $8 billion, annual
revenues of approximately $3.5 billion and approximately 18,900 employees in
Canada, the U.S. and overseas.



(Canadian Pacific Railway, Canadian Council of Railway Operating Unions, May
26 1999)

Jeff Pinchbeck wrote:

IMO, if SSR isn't running steam they're toast because that's the only reason
anybody would come out. I know for a fact I won't be coming out this summer
if there's no steam running.

Maybe you or the rest of us as railfans would be turned off with a
diesel on the head end of their train but I dare say most of their
customers couldn't care less what's pulling the train.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Tatham Phone : 519-824-4120 x2836
Senior Systems Analyst Fax : 519-766-9744
University Systems &#92; UC4 E-Mail : ptatham@...
Computing & Communications Services Home : R.R. 2, Guelph, ON, N1H 6H8
University of Guelph : 519-837-1464
Ontario, Canada, N1G 2W1 : "Mileage 44.8, Guelph Sub"

What is the current status of CPR FP7A 1400 since the trip across Canada
with 2816? Does it see any use? Have the painting errors been
corrected?

Bill:

In Fenruary, I heard a rumour that CP was not pleased with the way 1400
turned out and that it would be repainted. No reason given that I recall,
and I have heard nothing else.

Steve

At 02:27 31/05/99 GMT, Thomas Sajnovic wrote:

Wayne
can you tell me what the current status is for the steel out of the sault?
when is CN's last trun to take it and when will CP take over. By this now,
that would make CN's 594 only an acid train instead of an acid and steel
train? any other info will be appreiciated.
Tom

Looks like right now! June 1st.

There are stings and stings of the new Thrall coil cars stored here in
Sudbury yard. Huron Central train 911 left town last night (Saturday) with
at least 30 or more of them (empties) on the head end.


Wayne
Mile 77

Dang. I knew it was coming , but I missed it anyway. :(

EQUIPMENT LOCATION PR L TRAIN&#92; DESTINATN PR RAIL

INITNUMBER CITY ST MM DDZHHMM E * JUNCT CITY ST SCAC

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CP 009648 ROMFORD ON 05 30E2101 L P 040427 CPRS

EOM


Wayne