|
Morning, Iam looking at running a BP series 1? 2 HP - the vario speed box not the earlier belt models, on an inverter.
?
Who has done it outside of the States on what and how?
?
The UK because it's a Adcock and Shipley electrical setup excluding the motor.
How because there's a 2 speed rotary switch before the motor and inverters, iam told, don't like that.
Inverter - only because I have 230 volt supply. My home work shop runs on a rotary converter which I am very happy with but would cost ?2k+ to replace and another?1k to supply.
?
Finally I have both standard X & Y motors, wiring a separate inverter would seem the way to go but with 2 very small motors how and again what?
?
|
Hi Clive - I am doing the same on a couple of Bridgeports - it¡¯s pretty straightforward. Would you happen to be in the North West of ~England?
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On 16 Apr 2025, at 07:41, Clive Booth via groups.io <clivebooth.389@...> wrote:
Morning, Iam looking at running a BP series 1? 2 HP - the vario speed box not the earlier belt models, on an inverter.
?
Who has done it outside of the States on what and how?
?
The UK because it's a Adcock and Shipley electrical setup excluding the motor.
How because there's a 2 speed rotary switch before the motor and inverters, iam told, don't like that.
Inverter - only because I have 230 volt supply. My home work shop runs on a rotary converter which I am very happy with but would cost ?2k+ to replace and another?1k to supply.
?
Finally I have both standard X & Y motors, wiring a separate inverter would seem the way to go but with 2 very small motors how and again what?
?
|
Why are you looking to run from an inverter? This setup should run ok from a rotary converter, assuming that the output is in the 380-440 range. Dual speed motors will not run successfully from just 230. However some inverters have boosted front ends, so can output 380 output and will hence run a? Dahlander motor,?pole changing motor.My friend runs entire shop, plug and play from a larger inverter system, to deal with this issue, but not a cheap solution.?
Sp the question is why do you want to move from the rotary to an inverter? If because of noise? Then suggest changing the motor to a single speed.
Happy to answer more specific questions.
|
On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 04:41 PM, Clive Booth wrote:
Morning, Iam looking at running a BP series 1? 2 HP - the vario speed box not the earlier belt models, on an inverter.
?
Who has done it outside of the States on what and how?
?
The UK because it's a Adcock and Shipley electrical setup excluding the motor.
How because there's a 2 speed rotary switch before the motor and inverters, iam told, don't like that.
Inverter - only because I have 230 volt supply. My home work shop runs on a rotary converter which I am very happy with but would cost ?2k+ to replace and another?1k to supply.
?
Finally I have both standard X & Y motors, wiring a separate inverter would seem the way to go but with 2 very small motors how and again what?
?
Hi Clive, I¡¯ve done it on mine in Australia. 240 V in the VSD, original forward/reverse switch wired into the VSD via a cat 5 cable, can control the speed via the VSD or via the vary drive lever.?
Power to the main control box is also 240V single phase which runs the Y travel motor via the 110V transformer.?
Peter
|
Thank you for replying Peter.
To answer your question:-
My first option was take the 3 phase out of my garden that was ?8k of which ?2k was for the privilege of being connected - not doing anything - rip off!
My second option was the RC. I have a 1.5 Hp set up on a 13amp plug runs great but not enough power for the mill. I need a bigger RC ?1150 -?1500 that needs a bigger supply 20/25 Amp type C breaker that forces me to a replacement consumer unit for which the sparky wants a ?1k so a minimum of ?2+k. Maybe that's my best choice given all these possibly problems around the Dahlander set up. Never heard of Dahlanderbefore buying this m/c.
So keeping the current set up and having a dedicated inverter(s )for the mill and it's? table motors was my final area of investigation.
Hope this all makes sense.
Why are you looking to run from an inverter? This setup should run ok from a rotary converter, assuming that the output is in the 380-440 range. Dual speed motors will not run successfully from just 230. However some inverters have boosted front ends, so can output 380 output and will hence run a? Dahlander motor,?pole changing motor.My friend runs entire shop, plug and play from a larger inverter system, to deal with this issue, but not a cheap solution.?
Sp the question is why do you want to move from the rotary to an inverter? If because of noise? Then suggest changing the motor to a single speed.
Happy to answer more specific questions.
|
I¡¯ve got my workshop powered by an inverter system I bought from Drives Direct.
This gives me a consistent 400v 3 phase. I can switch on any machine in my workshop and it starts, I can run multiple machines at the same time. I had a dual speed Colchester Bantam which would switch speed without a problem.
I can run either a ? Hp motor on a cutter grinder and/ or the 5 HP on my Colchester Master which I recently bought. All without making any changes to the inverter set up in the box. ? Mine is the 7.5HP version so was quite expensive but when I built the ¡®shed I put in a 100amp SWA cable into the main house breaker box using a 50amp breaker. The cable runs into a small breaker box in the shed which feeds a 50 amp breaker to the inverter. ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Clive Booth via groups.io
Sent: 16 April 2025 09:40
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BridgeportMill] Powering a Bridgeport in the UK? Thank you for replying Peter.
To answer your question:-
My first option was take the 3 phase out of my garden that was ?8k of which ?2k was for the privilege of being connected - not doing anything - rip off!
My second option was the RC. I have a 1.5 Hp set up on a 13amp plug runs great but not enough power for the mill. I need a bigger RC ?1150 -?1500 that needs a bigger supply 20/25 Amp type C breaker that forces me to a replacement consumer unit for which the sparky wants a ?1k so a minimum of ?2+k. Maybe that's my best choice given all these possibly problems around the Dahlander set up. Never heard of Dahlanderbefore buying this m/c.
So keeping the current set up and having a dedicated inverter(s )for the mill and it's? table motors was my final area of investigation.
Hope this all makes sense. ? Why are you looking to run from an inverter? This setup should run ok from a rotary converter, assuming that the output is in the 380-440 range. Dual speed motors will not run successfully from just 230. However some inverters have boosted front ends, so can output 380 output and will hence run a?Dahlander motor,?pole changing motor. My friend runs entire shop, plug and play from a larger inverter system, to deal with this issue, but not a cheap solution.? Sp the question is why do you want to move from the rotary to an inverter? If because of noise? Then suggest changing the motor to a single speed. Happy to answer more specific questions.
|
For quite a few years now I have been using a Digital Phase Converter from?
A DPC is unlike a normal inverter in that it is not 'coupled' in any way to the motor it is driving. It simply takes 240v single phase and pumps out 415v three phase, irrespective of what motor is running - obviously within the power capacity limit of the DPC.
I use this to run a 3P ring around the workshop, into which is plugged several 3P machines, including a Harrison M300 lathe and Bridgeport. Once the DPC is switch on, I can simply run any of the machines. Probably more than one simultaneously, but power limits might become a problem and anyway, only one of me so trying to operate more than a single machine at a time is impossible (or certainly inadvisable). I have often however had one machine powered on but simply idle, while operating another, cutting, turning etc. So there's no restriction as far as I'm concerned.
For me it is the perfect solution. It is quiet and I have 3P that can be used for anything I want to run, just as if I had a real 3P supply.
The possible downside is that there is NO speed control from the DPC, nor high speed braking or anything that requires an inverter to be configured for a specific motor. However, that has never been an issue for me as all machines have their own speed control and can be simply wired up and used as intended from a regular 3P supply.
Hope this helps.
Ken ?G i l l e t t
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
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On 16 Apr 2025, at 07:41, Clive Booth via groups.io <clivebooth.389@...> wrote:
Morning, Iam looking at running a BP series 1? 2 HP - the vario speed box not the earlier belt models, on an inverter.
?
Who has done it outside of the States on what and how?
?
The UK because it's a Adcock and Shipley electrical setup excluding the motor.
How because there's a 2 speed rotary switch before the motor and inverters, iam told, don't like that.
Inverter - only because I have 230 volt supply. My home work shop runs on a rotary converter which I am very happy with but would cost ?2k+ to replace and another?1k to supply.
?
Finally I have both standard X & Y motors, wiring a separate inverter would seem the way to go but with 2 very small motors how and again what?
|
Thanks Peter for the pics. Very helpful.
As these motors are difficult to come by in the UK and have extended shafts to go into the gearbox arrangement the last thing I want to do is burn one out. Hence the caution.
What inverter model are you using?
Does it have the boosted front end you referred to in your earlier message? Why the Cat 5 cable and when you have a moment in the next couple of days is there any chance you could do a rough sketch of the connections. I noticed you replaced those horrible US wire connectors ?
Many thanks Clive
On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 04:41 PM, Clive Booth wrote:
Morning, Iam looking at running a BP series 1? 2 HP - the vario speed box not the earlier belt models, on an inverter.
?
Who has done it outside of the States on what and how?
?
The UK because it's a Adcock and Shipley electrical setup excluding the motor.
How because there's a 2 speed rotary switch before the motor and inverters, iam told, don't like that.
Inverter - only because I have 230 volt supply. My home work shop runs on a rotary converter which I am very happy with but would cost ?2k+ to replace and another?1k to supply.
?
Finally I have both standard X & Y motors, wiring a separate inverter would seem the way to go but with 2 very small motors how and again what?
?
?
Hi Clive, I¡¯ve done it on mine in Australia. 240 V in the VSD, original forward/reverse switch wired into the VSD via a cat 5 cable, can control the speed via the VSD or via the vary drive lever.?
Power to the main control box is also 240V single phase which runs the Y travel motor via the 110V transformer.?
Peter
|
Exactly the same as mine Ken A great solution and uses little power then the DPC is ¡®on¡¯ but nothing is running. I often have had my shaper running while using the lathe¡¡. ? A recent switch from a 2 speed Bantam to a Master just saw me put a 16a 3 phase plug on the masters wiring and plug it in. No fuss, no drama, it just worked! ? John ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of UKenGB via groups.io
Sent: 16 April 2025 09:55
To: BridgeportMill <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [BridgeportMill] Powering a Bridgeport in the UK? For quite a few years now I have been using a Digital Phase Converter from? A DPC is unlike a normal inverter in that it is not 'coupled' in any way to the motor it is driving. It simply takes 240v single phase and pumps out 415v three phase, irrespective of what motor is running - obviously within the power capacity limit of the DPC. I use this to run a 3P ring around the workshop, into which is plugged several 3P machines, including a Harrison M300 lathe and Bridgeport. Once the DPC is switch on, I can simply run any of the machines. Probably more than one simultaneously, but power limits might become a problem and anyway, only one of me so trying to operate more than a single machine at a time is impossible (or certainly inadvisable). I have often however had one machine powered on but simply idle, while operating another, cutting, turning etc. So there's no restriction as far as I'm concerned. For me it is the perfect solution. It is quiet and I have 3P that can be used for anything I want to run, just as if I had a real 3P supply. The possible downside is that there is NO speed control from the DPC, nor high speed braking or anything that requires an inverter to be configured for a specific motor. However, that has never been an issue for me as all machines have their own speed control and can be simply wired up and used as intended from a regular 3P supply.
Ken ?G i l l e t t
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
? Morning, Iam looking at running a BP series 1? 2 HP - the vario speed box not the earlier belt models, on an inverter. Who has done it outside of the States on what and how? The UK because it's a Adcock and Shipley electrical setup excluding the motor. How because there's a 2 speed rotary switch before the motor and inverters, iam told, don't like that. Inverter - only because I have 230 volt supply. My home work shop runs on a rotary converter which I am very happy with but would cost ?2k+ to replace and another?1k to supply. Finally I have both standard X & Y motors, wiring a separate inverter would seem the way to go but with 2 very small motors how and again what?
?
|
Thank you chaps, good to feel I am not entirely climbing a mountain on my own - it's been done before.
Ken/John - never dealt with Direct Drives only Transwave , who have been very helpful. Like you guys I work on my own, never have more than one hubby m/c working at a time. Not overly concerned at speed control. Only want an affordable 3Ph supply.
If I understand you. Then you are using your DPC in the way I use my rotary converter. A simple cable/circuit round the workshop with 3ph sockets on. So how does the DPC differ from an? inverter - dedicated motor setup.
How are you getting past the machine controls that inverters fail on.
Which model are you using? Iam assuming that has the 2hp BP mill is the biggest motor in my workshop that I wouldn't need anything as big as you 7.5hp set up.
Regards Clive
For quite a few years now I have been using a Digital Phase Converter from?
A DPC is unlike a normal inverter in that it is not 'coupled' in any way to the motor it is driving. It simply takes 240v single phase and pumps out 415v three phase, irrespective of what motor is running - obviously within the power capacity limit of the DPC.
I use this to run a 3P ring around the workshop, into which is plugged several 3P machines, including a Harrison M300 lathe and Bridgeport. Once the DPC is switch on, I can simply run any of the machines. Probably more than one simultaneously, but power limits might become a problem and anyway, only one of me so trying to operate more than a single machine at a time is impossible (or certainly inadvisable). I have often however had one machine powered on but simply idle, while operating another, cutting, turning etc. So there's no restriction as far as I'm concerned.
For me it is the perfect solution. It is quiet and I have 3P that can be used for anything I want to run, just as if I had a real 3P supply.
The possible downside is that there is NO speed control from the DPC, nor high speed braking or anything that requires an inverter to be configured for a specific motor. However, that has never been an issue for me as all machines have their own speed control and can be simply wired up and used as intended from a regular 3P supply.
Hope this helps.
Ken ?G i l l e t t
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Morning, Iam looking at running a BP series 1? 2 HP - the vario speed box not the earlier belt models, on an inverter.
?
Who has done it outside of the States on what and how?
?
The UK because it's a Adcock and Shipley electrical setup excluding the motor.
How because there's a 2 speed rotary switch before the motor and inverters, iam told, don't like that.
Inverter - only because I have 230 volt supply. My home work shop runs on a rotary converter which I am very happy with but would cost ?2k+ to replace and another?1k to supply.
?
Finally I have both standard X & Y motors, wiring a separate inverter would seem the way to go but with 2 very small motors how and again what?
|
Hi Clive,
?
Yes you don¡¯t want to fry the motor.?
I¡¯m using a Chinese AliExpress VSD as per below. It only cost something like AUD$100 so I figured if it blows I¡¯ll get another one.?
I got rid of the horrible twist connectors and replaced them with Wago 221-413 connectors. They are fantastic!
The key is to wire the motor to the LO-VOLTS wiring. There are some markings on the black wires to help you identify the windings and it¡¯s quite easy if you know what the current configuration is.?
The control box I¡¯m referring to is the one on the right of the machine with the relays and the 110V transformer. This is normally 3 phased connected but it only needs single phase if the motor is on a VSD.?
I measured the current the motor draws and on no load it maxes at 7A per phase(keep in mind 240V) if it goes above 10A VSD or breakers will trip on overcurrent.?
The cat5 is a low voltage control wire to tell the VSD to run forward or reverse. Ideally this should be shielded to avoid interference but I couldn¡¯t be bothered looking for one.?
Keep in mind this is a hobby machine for me and not production.?
|
I have sent you directly some more information on the direct drives approach.
You may find that the current rotary will actually power your Bridgeport, with the limitations of maybe not achieving maximum spindle speed and slightly less ambitious cuts. ?I have run a 5.5kw lathe from a 4kw rotary, whilst sorting out a longer term solution. ?At least give you time to consider all options.
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On 16 Apr 2025, at 09:39, Clive Booth via groups.io <clivebooth.389@...> wrote:
? Thank you for replying Peter.
To answer your question:-
My first option was take the 3 phase out of my garden that was ?8k of which ?2k was for the privilege of being connected - not doing anything - rip off!
My second option was the RC. I have a 1.5 Hp set up on a 13amp plug runs great but not enough power for the mill. I need a bigger RC ?1150 -?1500 that needs a bigger supply 20/25 Amp type C breaker that forces me to a replacement consumer unit for which the sparky wants a ?1k so a minimum of ?2+k. Maybe that's my best choice given all these possibly problems around the Dahlander set up. Never heard of Dahlanderbefore buying this m/c.
So keeping the current set up and having a dedicated inverter(s )for the mill and it's? table motors was my final area of investigation.
Hope this all makes sense.
Why are you looking to run from an inverter? This setup should run ok from a rotary converter, assuming that the output is in the 380-440 range. Dual speed motors will not run successfully from just 230. However some inverters have boosted front ends, so can output 380 output and will hence run a? Dahlander motor,?pole changing motor.My friend runs entire shop, plug and play from a larger inverter system, to deal with this issue, but not a cheap solution.?
Sp the question is why do you want to move from the rotary to an inverter? If because of noise? Then suggest changing the motor to a single speed.
Happy to answer more specific questions.
|
Morning James,
Thanks for replying. No, just North of Oxford but that doesn't mean in a few weeks I couldn't take a trip North and I am planning on a trip at the end of June in any case.
In the meantime what inverter are you planning on using and how big? We are talking about the 2 HP machine with it's British controls - yes?
Cheers Clive fellow northerner.
Hi Clive - I am doing the same on a couple of Bridgeports - it¡¯s pretty straightforward. Would you happen to be in the North West of ~England?
Morning, Iam looking at running a BP series 1? 2 HP - the vario speed box not the earlier belt models, on an inverter.
?
Who has done it outside of the States on what and how?
?
The UK because it's a Adcock and Shipley electrical setup excluding the motor.
How because there's a 2 speed rotary switch before the motor and inverters, iam told, don't like that.
Inverter - only because I have 230 volt supply. My home work shop runs on a rotary converter which I am very happy with but would cost ?2k+ to replace and another?1k to supply.
?
Finally I have both standard X & Y motors, wiring a separate inverter would seem the way to go but with 2 very small motors how and again what?
?
?
|
Thank you again I will go through it this evening.
I have already tried the 1.5 HP blown some fuses, the starting torque kills it. Plus? stopping to change? to higher speeds causes it to blow. It was OK for a quick test but frustrating to do anything else.
I have sent you directly some more information on the direct drives approach.
You may find that the current rotary will actually power your Bridgeport, with the limitations of maybe not achieving maximum spindle speed and slightly less ambitious cuts.? I have run a 5.5kw lathe from a 4kw rotary, whilst sorting out a longer term solution.? At least give you time to consider all options.
Peter ? Thank you for replying Peter.
To answer your question:-
My first option was take the 3 phase out of my garden that was ?8k of which ?2k was for the privilege of being connected - not doing anything - rip off!
My second option was the RC. I have a 1.5 Hp set up on a 13amp plug runs great but not enough power for the mill. I need a bigger RC ?1150 -?1500 that needs a bigger supply 20/25 Amp type C breaker that forces me to a replacement consumer unit for which the sparky wants a ?1k so a minimum of ?2+k. Maybe that's my best choice given all these possibly problems around the Dahlander set up. Never heard of Dahlanderbefore buying this m/c.
So keeping the current set up and having a dedicated inverter(s )for the mill and it's? table motors was my final area of investigation.
Hope this all makes sense.
Why are you looking to run from an inverter? This setup should run ok from a rotary converter, assuming that the output is in the 380-440 range. Dual speed motors will not run successfully from just 230. However some inverters have boosted front ends, so can output 380 output and will hence run a? Dahlander motor,?pole changing motor.My friend runs entire shop, plug and play from a larger inverter system, to deal with this issue, but not a cheap solution.?
Sp the question is why do you want to move from the rotary to an inverter? If because of noise? Then suggest changing the motor to a single speed.
Happy to answer more specific questions.
|
Yes, as I said, seems to me to be the perfect solution.
Ken ?G i l l e t t
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
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On 16 Apr 2025, at 10:01, John Whitby via groups.io <johnwhitby1@...> wrote:
Exactly the same as mine Ken A great solution and uses little power then the DPC is ¡®on¡¯ but nothing is running. I often have had my shaper running while using the lathe¡¡. ? A recent switch from a 2 speed Bantam to a Master just saw me put a 16a 3 phase plug on the masters wiring and plug it in. No fuss, no drama, it just worked! ? John ?
? For quite a few years now I have been using a Digital Phase Converter from? A DPC is unlike a normal inverter in that it is not 'coupled' in any way to the motor it is driving. It simply takes 240v single phase and pumps out 415v three phase, irrespective of what motor is running - obviously within the power capacity limit of the DPC. I use this to run a 3P ring around the workshop, into which is plugged several 3P machines, including a Harrison M300 lathe and Bridgeport. Once the DPC is switch on, I can simply run any of the machines. Probably more than one simultaneously, but power limits might become a problem and anyway, only one of me so trying to operate more than a single machine at a time is impossible (or certainly inadvisable). I have often however had one machine powered on but simply idle, while operating another, cutting, turning etc. So there's no restriction as far as I'm concerned. For me it is the perfect solution. It is quiet and I have 3P that can be used for anything I want to run, just as if I had a real 3P supply. The possible downside is that there is NO speed control from the DPC, nor high speed braking or anything that requires an inverter to be configured for a specific motor. However, that has never been an issue for me as all machines have their own speed control and can be simply wired up and used as intended from a regular 3P supply.
Ken ?G i l l e t t
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
? Morning, Iam looking at running a BP series 1? 2 HP - the vario speed box not the earlier belt models, on an inverter. Who has done it outside of the States on what and how? The UK because it's a Adcock and Shipley electrical setup excluding the motor. How because there's a 2 speed rotary switch before the motor and inverters, iam told, don't like that. Inverter - only because I have 230 volt supply. My home work shop runs on a rotary converter which I am very happy with but would cost ?2k+ to replace and another?1k to supply. Finally I have both standard X & Y motors, wiring a separate inverter would seem the way to go but with 2 very small motors how and again what?
|
Dave who runs Drives Direct is extremely helpful (if busy) and I have no hesitation in recommending them and their DPC products.
An inverter only needs to be configured specifically to suit the motor if it is trying to do fancy stuff like electronic speed control. The DPC simply does its stuff and produces a 3P output. It has no knowledge of, nor cares what you do with that 3P - provided you keep within its power limits.
There are 0, I.e. ZERO changes to any 3P machinery you want to run. Just wire it up as if connecting to an actual 3P supply from the grid. All the machine's controls work exactly as designed. As far as the machine is concerned, it IS connected to a 3P grid supply.
When one has been steeped in converters, static or rotary and then getting to grip with the complexities of setting up an inverter and having to modify a machine's controls to suit that strange arrangement, the idea of the DPC can appear too simple to be true, but it is true and works wonderfully well in my experience.
Just feed the DPC with 240v 1P and it outputs 415v 3P to which you can connect any 3P machine without modification.
Simples. ?
Actually, there might be one caveat. The DPC produces a somewhat square/chopped 3P output. Some equipment can have a bit of a problem with that. In which case you can add a 'smoothing' unit to the output so you get a good sine wave. I have not needed to do that, but thought I should mention it.
Ken ?G i l l e t t
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
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On 16 Apr 2025, at 10:23, Clive Booth via groups.io <clivebooth.389@...> wrote:
Thank you chaps, good to feel I am not entirely climbing a mountain on my own - it's been done before.
Ken/John - never dealt with Direct Drives only Transwave , who have been very helpful. Like you guys I work on my own, never have more than one hubby m/c working at a time. Not overly concerned at speed control. Only want an affordable 3Ph supply.
If I understand you. Then you are using your DPC in the way I use my rotary converter. A simple cable/circuit round the workshop with 3ph sockets on. So how does the DPC differ from an? inverter - dedicated motor setup.
How are you getting past the machine controls that inverters fail on.
Which model are you using? Iam assuming that has the 2hp BP mill is the biggest motor in my workshop that I wouldn't need anything as big as you 7.5hp set up.
Regards Clive
For quite a few years now I have been using a Digital Phase Converter from?
A DPC is unlike a normal inverter in that it is not 'coupled' in any way to the motor it is driving. It simply takes 240v single phase and pumps out 415v three phase, irrespective of what motor is running - obviously within the power capacity limit of the DPC.
I use this to run a 3P ring around the workshop, into which is plugged several 3P machines, including a Harrison M300 lathe and Bridgeport. Once the DPC is switch on, I can simply run any of the machines. Probably more than one simultaneously, but power limits might become a problem and anyway, only one of me so trying to operate more than a single machine at a time is impossible (or certainly inadvisable). I have often however had one machine powered on but simply idle, while operating another, cutting, turning etc. So there's no restriction as far as I'm concerned.
For me it is the perfect solution. It is quiet and I have 3P that can be used for anything I want to run, just as if I had a real 3P supply.
The possible downside is that there is NO speed control from the DPC, nor high speed braking or anything that requires an inverter to be configured for a specific motor. However, that has never been an issue for me as all machines have their own speed control and can be simply wired up and used as intended from a regular 3P supply.
Hope this helps.
Ken ?G i l l e t t
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Morning, Iam looking at running a BP series 1? 2 HP - the vario speed box not the earlier belt models, on an inverter.
?
Who has done it outside of the States on what and how?
?
The UK because it's a Adcock and Shipley electrical setup excluding the motor.
How because there's a 2 speed rotary switch before the motor and inverters, iam told, don't like that.
Inverter - only because I have 230 volt supply. My home work shop runs on a rotary converter which I am very happy with but would cost ?2k+ to replace and another?1k to supply.
?
Finally I have both standard X & Y motors, wiring a separate inverter would seem the way to go but with 2 very small motors how and again what?
|
I have been running mine (2HP series II without variable speed) on a 2kW VFD for about 18 years with no problems. It does present a couple of issues however. The Bridgeport FWD/REV switch must be left on in FWD since the current surge on starting will cause an overload on the VFD if you start the VFD first and then turn the switch on. Simply set the VFD to the frequency desired and press FWD or REV on the VFD to ramp up to frequency. I use about 1-2 second ramp up/down on the VFD. The machine produces decent torque from about 30 HZ up, and can be used at lower frequencies if torque is not a issue (small end mills for example). I have been careful to not exceed 60 Hz although the VFD is capable of up to 400 Hz. I don't know if the Bridgeport pancake motor can handle the higher RPM and do not want to damage it. It is possible to slow or stall the motor with very heavy cuts and large end mills, but this does not harm the VFD. Even trying to start with a locked spindle by accident only causes an overload fault on the VFD. If you run the motor at very low frequencies for long periods you may have a cooling issue since the fan is turning slowly.
Bob Butcher
On Wednesday, April 16, 2025 at 05:07:26 AM MDT, UKenGB via groups.io <kengroups@...> wrote:
Dave who runs Drives Direct is extremely helpful (if busy) and I have no hesitation in recommending them and their DPC products.
An inverter only needs to be configured specifically to suit the motor if it is trying to do fancy stuff like electronic speed control. The DPC simply does its stuff and produces a 3P output. It has no knowledge of, nor cares what you do with that 3P - provided you keep within its power limits.
There are 0, I.e. ZERO changes to any 3P machinery you want to run. Just wire it up as if connecting to an actual 3P supply from the grid. All the machine's controls work exactly as designed. As far as the machine is concerned, it IS connected to a 3P grid supply.
When one has been steeped in converters, static or rotary and then getting to grip with the complexities of setting up an inverter and having to modify a machine's controls to suit that strange arrangement, the idea of the DPC can appear too simple to be true, but it is true and works wonderfully well in my experience.
Just feed the DPC with 240v 1P and it outputs 415v 3P to which you can connect any 3P machine without modification.
Simples. ?
Actually, there might be one caveat. The DPC produces a somewhat square/chopped 3P output. Some equipment can have a bit of a problem with that. In which case you can add a 'smoothing' unit to the output so you get a good sine wave. I have not needed to do that, but thought I should mention it.
Ken ?G i l l e t t
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On 16 Apr 2025, at 10:23, Clive Booth via groups.io <clivebooth.389@...> wrote:
Thank you chaps, good to feel I am not entirely climbing a mountain on my own - it's been done before.
Ken/John - never dealt with Direct Drives only Transwave , who have been very helpful. Like you guys I work on my own, never have more than one hubby m/c working at a time. Not overly concerned at speed control. Only want an affordable 3Ph supply.
If I understand you. Then you are using your DPC in the way I use my rotary converter. A simple cable/circuit round the workshop with 3ph sockets on. So how does the DPC differ from an? inverter - dedicated motor setup.
How are you getting past the machine controls that inverters fail on.
Which model are you using? Iam assuming that has the 2hp BP mill is the biggest motor in my workshop that I wouldn't need anything as big as you 7.5hp set up.
Regards Clive
For quite a few years now I have been using a Digital Phase Converter from?
A DPC is unlike a normal inverter in that it is not 'coupled' in any way to the motor it is driving. It simply takes 240v single phase and pumps out 415v three phase, irrespective of what motor is running - obviously within the power capacity limit of the DPC.
I use this to run a 3P ring around the workshop, into which is plugged several 3P machines, including a Harrison M300 lathe and Bridgeport. Once the DPC is switch on, I can simply run any of the machines. Probably more than one simultaneously, but power limits might become a problem and anyway, only one of me so trying to operate more than a single machine at a time is impossible (or certainly inadvisable). I have often however had one machine powered on but simply idle, while operating another, cutting, turning etc. So there's no restriction as far as I'm concerned.
For me it is the perfect solution. It is quiet and I have 3P that can be used for anything I want to run, just as if I had a real 3P supply.
The possible downside is that there is NO speed control from the DPC, nor high speed braking or anything that requires an inverter to be configured for a specific motor. However, that has never been an issue for me as all machines have their own speed control and can be simply wired up and used as intended from a regular 3P supply.
Hope this helps.
Ken ?G i l l e t t
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Morning, Iam looking at running a BP series 1? 2 HP - the vario speed box not the earlier belt models, on an inverter.
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Who has done it outside of the States on what and how?
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The UK because it's a Adcock and Shipley electrical setup excluding the motor.
How because there's a 2 speed rotary switch before the motor and inverters, iam told, don't like that.
Inverter - only because I have 230 volt supply. My home work shop runs on a rotary converter which I am very happy with but would cost ?2k+ to replace and another?1k to supply.
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Finally I have both standard X & Y motors, wiring a separate inverter would seem the way to go but with 2 very small motors how and again what?
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Morning, thank you for so many inputs to my general concern on inverters and BP 2HP.
Still following this path I have inevitably yet more questions for you all.
First let me say that Direct Phased Converters ,DPC have rocked my boat - preserving the existing controls is a big deal for me with a Dahlander type motor! Being Easter people are on holiday so I am waiting for some feedback from Direct Drives - the guy is no lover of Rotary converters that¡¯s for sure?! Interestingly in one write up he recommends for a BP 2 Hp a startup power demand of 150% (giving 3 hp
?)while in another of his write up s having said all of the above he then goes on to recommend times 3 = 6Hp! We will see if and when I get to talk to him.
My general question today is where does the Neutral come from to supply amongst other things the Fracmo table motors?
Not being an electrical engineer I looked it up. The Ai says ( if I have got it right) the supply needs Delta mode and a star topographic transformer. So, keeping it simple does that mean the chunky UK transformer serve s this function ? Thinking perhaps illogically that¡¯s where the source supply to the DRO and light come from!
If not. Is there this functionality in the Erskine black box controller? Not being able to find the Erskine circuit diagram ( only US ones - not the same). Do any of you have a copy?
Why am I asking? Well when I bought the machine ( like a plonker) I never thought to test the table motor functionality. Cleaning the machine later I found a little swarf in the ESL box and a burn on the board. A guy repaired the burn and said if I had problems ¡°not to come back¡±. I therefore don¡¯t have a high expectation of it working! Getting the mill working is the priority understanding what to do next is my current concern.
Clive
Ps anyone bought from JFK in NI DPC sellers?
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So this is the inside of a 10hp direct drives , plug and play unit, with the neutral magnetics.
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On 21 Apr 2025, at 10:48, Clive Booth via groups.io <clivebooth.389@...> wrote:
?Morning, thank you for so many inputs to my general concern on inverters and BP 2HP.
Still following this path I have inevitably yet more questions for you all.
First let me say that Direct Phased Converters ,DPC have rocked my boat - preserving the existing controls is a big deal for me with a Dahlander type motor! Being Easter people are on holiday so I am waiting for some feedback from Direct Drives - the guy is no lover of Rotary converters that¡¯s for sure?! Interestingly in one write up he recommends for a BP 2 Hp a startup power demand of 150% (giving 3 hp
?)while in another of his write up s having said all of the above he then goes on to recommend times 3 = 6Hp! We will see if and when I get to talk to him.
My general question today is where does the Neutral come from to supply amongst other things the Fracmo table motors?
Not being an electrical engineer I looked it up. The Ai says ( if I have got it right) the supply needs Delta mode and a star topographic transformer. So, keeping it simple does that mean the chunky UK transformer serve s this function ? Thinking perhaps illogically that¡¯s where the source supply to the DRO and light come from!
If not. Is there this functionality in the Erskine black box controller? Not being able to find the Erskine circuit diagram ( only US ones - not the same). Do any of you have a copy?
Why am I asking? Well when I bought the machine ( like a plonker) I never thought to test the table motor functionality. Cleaning the machine later I found a little swarf in the ESL box and a burn on the board. A guy repaired the burn and said if I had problems ¡°not to come back¡±. I therefore don¡¯t have a high expectation of it working! Getting the mill working is the priority understanding what to do next is my current concern.
Clive
Ps anyone bought from JFK in NI DPC sellers?
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The files section has a data pack for the Erskine drive unit including a typical circuit diagram, set up data and most component values. So far as I'm aware it has everything that is readily available out in the wilds of the internet. I've not found anything else of significance since I compiled it. The Erskine unit takes its power from the auxiliary drive transformer in the main control box. The standard UK circuit diagram has all the details.
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My Drives Direct box connects via 5 pin plugs with both neutral and earth available so clearly all the connections are available. Many years since I hooked it in so i don't recall details.
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Start-up power ratings are confusing.
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Basically a Drives Direct box won't reliably start any motor above half its power rating. Essentially it has to run in its designed short term overload mode to deliver the start up current demanded by the motor. All perfectly safe, it's designed to do it, but the size of the internal capacitors limits ?how much current can be drawn for how long.
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In normal one VFD per motor mode everything soft starts drawing only enough current to accelerate from standstill so the VFD doesn't have to supply the high start-up current needed when running from utility power (or a Drives Direct box). So the capacitors and everything else inside can be much smaller and the device correspondingly cheaper. Drives Direct style boxes that an be used as an effective substitute for utility power aren't made commercially because Mighty Great Big Electrics Inc would need to make them about 4 times the rating of a VFD for the same size motor so the market doesn't really exist.
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When setting up fuses, overload trips et al on a Bridgeport motor you generally need to cope with a peak short term current capability of 150% of the rated normal load current. But all the standard control gear handles this.
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Clive
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