¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

the cause for the spurs, found!


 

allison,

i tried with just a regular 2n2222a in place of the 2n3904 (as per your recommedation). instead of the 220 ohm collector load, i used a bifilar transformern with the center tap going to the final mixer. here are the results :
(even with the 2n2222a, the performance is acceptable)

On Sun, 4 Nov 2018, 02:47 ajparent1/KB1GMX <kb1gmx@... wrote:
Great you found the likely cause of the 2IF spur.

Now why is the 45mhz IF distorting?

Two things, it needs to be clean to at least -6 or so DBM and how much gain is needed to
get to that from the ouput of the 45mhz crystal filter.

I'd suggest starting with transistors that actually have performance at 45mhz.

Allison


 

Will any of these mods be incorporated into uBitx v4 or even a new version soon?

--
72 and God bless
KD4EPG


 

dennis,
we keep rolling every confirmed change into the next version.
- f

On Sun, 4 Nov 2018, 09:49 Dennis Yancey <Kd4epg@... wrote:
Will any of these mods be incorporated into uBitx v4 or even a new version soon?

--
72 and God bless
KD4EPG


 

Farhan,

For the 45mhz amp the only part suggested was BFR106 or maybe 2n2369/mmbt2369.
I'd not use 2n2222 there but its better than 3904.? Any suggestion of of 2n2222A would
have been in the power amp area predriver or driver.

Allison


 

allison,
let me try those out. thanks for the tip.
?i had 2n2222s so they went in. i remember you explaining why 2n2222 was better than 2n3904.?
- f

On Mon, 5 Nov 2018, 01:31 ajparent1/KB1GMX <kb1gmx@... wrote:
Farhan,

For the 45mhz amp the only part suggested was BFR106 or maybe 2n2369/mmbt2369.
I'd not use 2n2222 there but its better than 3904.? Any suggestion of of 2n2222A would
have been in the power amp area predriver or driver.

Allison


 

I thought we needed better linearity here to reduce distortion, not improved response ?


Gordon Gibby
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

With better gain, you can afford more negative feedback to reduce distortion


On Nov 4, 2018, at 20:09, Glenn <glennp@...> wrote:

I thought we needed better linearity here to reduce distortion, not improved response ?


 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

The BFR106 parts will work pretty well, but I¡¯ve used the ERA/MAR/GALI series of MMIC successfully there too with just a little circuit modification.? Some tend to be very low noise factor.

?

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ashhar Farhan
Sent: Sunday, November 4, 2018 6:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BITX20] the cause for the spurs, found!

?

allison,

let me try those out. thanks for the tip.

?i had 2n2222s so they went in. i remember you explaining why 2n2222 was better than 2n3904.?

- f

?

On Mon, 5 Nov 2018, 01:31 ajparent1/KB1GMX <kb1gmx@... wrote:

Farhan,

For the 45mhz amp the only part suggested was BFR106 or maybe 2n2369/mmbt2369.
I'd not use 2n2222 there but its better than 3904.? Any suggestion of of 2n2222A would
have been in the power amp area predriver or driver.

Allison


--

¡­_. _._


 

What is the expected level into the Tx bi-amp stage at 45MHz? I don¡¯t have a feel for this and can¡¯t check it as my uBITX is in pieces at present.

If it's a relatively high level then the 45Mhz amp stage maybe into limiting.

But, my testing on a proto build of these stages, shows that the bi-amp as it is, although fitted with a BFR106 in 1st stage, is indeed, severely limiting at levels above about -13dBm.

?

Ie at -10dBm input level, 2nd harmonic is ~21dB down, 3rd is -22dB

And at -13dbm input, 2nd harmonic is -33dB, 3rd is -32dB.

Around a 10dB improvement in harmonics for a 3dB input level drop!

?

This is probably the reason why fitting the extra filter mod works reasonably well, as it's actually just reducing the gain of these stages, as Allison has surmised before.

If this is actually the case, then a simple ~3-4dB (or more?) pad at the input may be a solution although better would be to re-calc the Bi-amp stage for lower gain.? Currently the gain is about 18-19dB.

Glenn?? -vk3pe


 

Glen,

That was the first thing I did was try a pad instead of filter. But that did not help. It is the sane as reducing
the mic drive.

The filter helps to get rid of non IF signals (Harmonics) picked up from the PA. The ralay change does the
same but reduces the spurs and harmonics.

Last evening I was with Farhan, I was playing with a modded board and found spurs gone high.. baffled me!
Guess what ? I had soldered an unconnected wire to a ground spot on the bidi and when it was removed
the spurs came back to kosher levels. This explains it!

Raj

At 05-11-18, you wrote:


This is probably the reason why fitting the extra filter mod works reasonably well, as it's actually just reducing the gain of these stages, as Allison has surmised before.

If this is actually the case, then a simple ~3-4dB (or more?) pad at the input may be a solution although better would be to re-calc the Bi-amp stage for lower gain.? Currently the gain is about 18-19dB.

Glenn? ? -vk3pe


 

Raj, sorry, i didn't take in the detail of your previous post in this thread. I guess you tried shielding etc of the stages.
glenn


 

Just happened to have this little can which fits over the 45Mhz area.?? Or perhaps even more area needs to be shielded. If that actually works.?


 

Would adding the LPF as specified by Farhan provide approximately the same output power, something more than 10w at least on the lower bands?


Il 05/nov/2018 09:40, "Glenn" <glennp@...> ha scritto:
Just happened to have this little can which fits over the 45Mhz area.?? Or perhaps even more area needs to be shielded. If that actually works.?


 

Congrats to Farhan and Raj for the fine detective work in figuring out this issue.

--
Ryan Flowers - W7RLF



 

If one swaps the 3904s for BFR106s in the transmit side amp, is it a transistor swap, or will the job also require re-biasing?

I'm wondering if I should try this, or if it would be better to stay on the porch until the adults report back?? ;)?

Thanks!

Andy, KG5RKP


On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 02:01 PM, ajparent1/KB1GMX wrote:
Farhan,

For the 45mhz amp the only part suggested was BFR106 or maybe 2n2369/mmbt2369.
I'd not use 2n2222 there but its better than 3904.? Any suggestion of of 2n2222A would
have been in the power amp area predriver or driver.

Allison


 

I had to re-bias after swapping the TX transistors (Q20, Q21 and Q22) in June.

I wondered why TX-power on SSB went down - and the reason was that Q20 was not on the correct operating point.
Allisson gave the right hint: At ideal bias the collector of Q20 (if a BFR106 is used) shall have about 6V.

And just by looking up that one, I am wondering now if a lot of solutions (or the right approaches) have not already been discussed in the past.


 

Sascha,

Have you checked the wiki and???

Info in both places.

The bias at Q20 should not be about 6V.? It should be more like 9V.
Reason for this is the ideal bias is about 10mA and at 6V collector its more like
36ma and that's very high.? ? Also the two transistors (Q21,22) cause a 1.5V offset
and we want the emitter of Q22 at more than 4.5v (+-1 V).

Allison


 

AndyH,

Yes rebias.

Allison


 

Thanks Ma'am.? I'm staying on the porch.? hi hi


On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 09:26 AM, ajparent1/KB1GMX wrote:
AndyH,

Yes rebias.

Allison


 

Holy cow, Allison - I just worked through your RF power chain thread and you've covered all of the swaps and biasing there.
/g/BITX20/topic/rf_power_chain_mods_and/19399962?p=Created,,,20,1,240,0&jump=1

THANK YOU for teaching enough to get me off the porch!


On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 09:26 AM, ajparent1/KB1GMX wrote:
AndyH,

Yes rebias.

Allison