Re: Amplifier chain design - best practices
Did a count and nearly 50% of the posts in thsi string have nothing to do with:
amplifier chain design - best practices.
About DBMs,
DBM drive levels
Low pass filters
Spectrum analyzer and probes.
K2 and its price.
SSD
QUCS
I might have forgotten a few.
Someone change the title to "WHATEVER/"
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Re: Amplifier chain design - best practices
RCBG/Carl,
R.E. has an opinion.? Venders supply fact. Home brew is speculation and requires testing.
uBitx uses the latter, until tested its all a guess.? WHile patterned after many the transformers
are part of the picture and no commercial packaged design I've seen do those transformers.
However its widely copied and almost never tested.
The LO should be at least 5dbm and can be as high as 10.? Higher is better to a point.
The ubitx has maybe a 3dbm or less LO.? LEast that what I get with O'scope, SA, and
calibrated RF power meter.? Its not enough!
The suggested level is for a level 7 (7dbm nominal) DBM the input power should be -10dbm or less.
that is actually 17db below the LO.? ?So -20DBM is only 3db away and likely to make no
easily measured difference.
But if we peruse that at 3dbm we need to be at not more than -17dbm and the output signal
then is less than -22dbm.
Allison
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Re: I find This Shorted Circuit on Raduino, here the pics..plz Help?
#ubitx-help
Ok yes it was the one post i have write an when load up was deleten i have forget to write it again.. Here re the information from the lost posting
Power supply is 12v 3amp or batterypack of 8x1,5v for sometimes or when testing outdoors
AM station till today only received in version like seems to be an AM radio station bu never a clear sound rceive of this, but the bad thing that since an other ham tried to play at 'calibration' and 'bfo' is going more to negative receive...
HAM in my town i contacted they have no knowledge for other things like finish buying tansceeiver this is no joke no one from many have any knowledge with homebrew and they have licence A and not new... I thought that is an way but the only way till now is to ask here.. One only HAM in my town make homebrew but i such for contact next month at first week when the club meets.till that day only i have you all here for help no joke
I have make at RV2 and RV3 the 100milliamps pro so 200 toghether just want like in fasctory set..
I think the solderpoint which i have described on picture here at first posting can not be ok when look shematic for first batch v3 ubitx , you have ubitx3 with the Fci tda? And have you test with multimeter an contact tone on these 2 solder points are have conctact? Please can you say me these things are like so by your ubitx raduino??
The Software is CEC 1.08 and which you have??
I think the calibration of menu points "Calibration" and "BFO" setting is important for me but how should make this when its totaly distored and every post i found not find a way for this to bring it right or even to factory set...
I hope you? can help
AM station to hear was an begin but first the calibrating to make it right...that is mostly my issue with the wrong calibration and bfo i think....
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RTTY a small device ...... and a bit QRP
The small units .......
?
?
Best,
Johan
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Re: Amplifier chain design - best practices
As I recall, several here have posted that the LO input to the DBM should be about 7 dBm.? That agrees with the following DBM tutorial I found online:
However, I also recall someone here mentioning that they measured the LO input as only a little over 10dB higher than the RF input during transmit.? The above tutorial recommends that the LO be about 20 dBm higher than the RF input.
What is the consensus here?? Is having the LO input to the dBM only 10 dBm higher than the RF input during transmit OK, or is the tutorial correct about needing a 20 dBM delta between the two for the best results?
73,
Carl, K0MWC
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Re: NEXTION DISPLAY UPDATES For KD8CEC ver 1.094 up
KD8CEC? 3.2 files
Download this file
Extract Ubitx_32.tft for just the tft or Ubitx_32.him for the him file.
Marty
--
N5KBP
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Prototype for the MMIC based bi-directional amplifier replacement. That is not the actual MMIC.... still awaiting delivery. But the transmission line boards are here and the isolation caps, bias choke, and zero ohm place holder for the attenuator are set. The device in the center is just for modeling purposes to be ready when the semiconductors get here.
There will be a 3 week hiatus on this project though unless the devices arrive today as I am headed overseas until mid-October. Will report on the results on my return.
WA8TOD
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Look at KD8CEC firmware updates, they do work with your display, and do fix the keyer subroutine. But if you stay with the straight key, it won't matter much.
Ed KC8SBV
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Re: Amplifier chain design - best practices
What probe are you using?
Raj
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
At 22/09/2018, you wrote: This ...I measured 0.6 volts P-P on the junction or R102/R103 ...thats about 0 dbm ...Not enough for a 'level 7 ' mixer (more nearly a sine wave than a square wave or kinda a sineish square wave)
Jim
On Friday, September 21, 2018, 9:21:53 PM PDT, Jerry Gaffke via Groups.Io <jgaffke@...> wrote:
Howard,
The Si5351 is having a hard time dealing with the 50 ohm 6dB pads it's trying to drive,
but otherwise doing pretty good.
Jerry, KE7ER
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100% agree Sarma. Almost any microphone will give satisfactory performance across the 300 - 2700 Hz passband used for SSB. Instead of spending huge dollars on high performance microphones, SSB operators would do well to spend any extra audio money for microphone processing. Equalization for leveling out or emphasizing critical portions of the SSB passband, noise-gating to remove ambient low level noise, and compression to raise the average talk power. "Thumping" bass response and crystal clear highs are both thrown away by the SSB filter anyway. So the smart money would be spent limiting dynamic range and emphasizing intelligibility within the remaining response.
WA8TOD
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You might check on the New England qrp club site for their ?switched capacitor filter kit. It has good reviews and is about $35 I think
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Re: Amplifier chain design - best practices
Ha, well, you indeed may be correct ..Since I didn't save my invoices, (maybe I didn't want to remember) and bought pieces and bits as they arrived I never kept track of exactly how much I spent ( SN 19xx ..Late-comer)
Jim
On Saturday, September 22, 2018, 4:36:38 AM PDT, Michael Maiorana <zfreak@...> wrote:
Jim, Your post made me curious. I have an early K2 that I bought and built in 1999. Looking at my invoice, and adjusting for inflation, the K2 is about $100 cheaper today (100 2018 US dollars).? Inflation is a thief.? Mike M. KU4QO
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 2:55 PM, jim via Groups.Io <ab7vf@...> wrote: I also too have the K2 manual for my unit ...Looking a "little further in front" you will notice 5 ea. band-pass filters ...Not dc to daylight transmit path ... if you want K2 performance, buy a K2 @ $800 to $1200 ...(glad I got mine when they were cheap) elsewise work with whacha got
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Re: Amplifier chain design - best practices
Jim, Your post made me curious. I have an early K2 that I bought and built in 1999. Looking at my invoice, and adjusting for inflation, the K2 is about $100 cheaper today (100 2018 US dollars).? Inflation is a thief.? Mike M. KU4QO
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 2:55 PM, jim via Groups.Io <ab7vf@...> wrote: I also too have the K2 manual for my unit ...Looking a "little further in front" you will notice 5 ea. band-pass filters ...Not dc to daylight transmit path ... if you want K2 performance, buy a K2 @ $800 to $1200 ...(glad I got mine when they were cheap) elsewise work with whacha got
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Re: Amplifier chain design - best practices
This ...I measured 0.6 volts P-P on the junction or R102/R103 ...thats about 0 dbm ...Not enough for a 'level? 7 ' mixer? (more nearly a sine wave than a square wave? or kinda a sineish square wave)
Jim
On Friday, September 21, 2018, 9:21:53 PM PDT, Jerry Gaffke via Groups.Io <jgaffke@...> wrote:
Howard,
?
The Si5351 is having a hard time dealing with the 50 ohm 6dB pads it's trying to drive,
but otherwise doing pretty good.
Jerry, KE7ER
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Your quote is Thomas Edison ??? Timothy E. Fidler : Engineer BE Mech(1) Auckland , NDT specialist AINDT UT /RT3 , MT2 CB #2885,?
Telephone Whangarei?? 022? 691 8405
e: Engstr@...
----- Original Message -----
To: <[email protected]>
Cc:
Sent: Sat, 22 Sep 2018 02:50:11 -0700
Subject: Re: [BITX20] si5351 crosstalk #radiuno
Re 78 Fairchild Diode Data Book
In the old days the manufacturers really went all out with their data books.? They wanted the designer to know exactly what he was buying and how to use the thing.? In fact most data books had many application notes where they would lead the designer down the garden path to show how their part could be used in other ways, sometimes unexpected ways.
National Semi was famous for this approach.? Their Op Amp data book was better than a graduate level course in Op Amp theory.? I still have my early 80's copy...dog eared...probably has 10 lbs of highlighter ink in it.
--
"You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat."
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Re 78 Fairchild Diode Data Book
In the old days the manufacturers really went all out with their data books.? They wanted the designer to know exactly what he was buying and how to use the thing.? In fact most data books had many application notes where they would lead the designer down the garden path to show how their part could be used in other ways, sometimes unexpected ways.
National Semi was famous for this approach.? Their Op Amp data book was better than a graduate level course in Op Amp theory.? I still have my early 80's copy...dog eared...probably has 10 lbs of highlighter ink in it.
--
"You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat."
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Hey Glenn, So what were the results of adding the buffer stages??
Thanks
Lyn
--
"You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat."
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Re: Amplifier chain design - best practices
When I finish with my homemade SA, I made a list of a few things I'm going to try.
1). Improve ground layout. I plan on taking a Dremel tool and cut a line across the ground copper flow between the PA side and the IF amplifier side. Then I'll find a better common ground point for the two sides. This may reduce the ground loop from the PA feeding into the IF stages.
1a). Experiment to see if using an additional copper clad board, mounted under the uBITX, as a common ground island with various critical points of the circuitry grounded with short straps to the ground island helps at all.
2). Reduce the audio drive level to about where the uBITX currently puts out 1 watt on the lower bands. Then add an additional pre-driver stage before the PA to bring the power back up to around 10 watts. This may make life easier on the IF stages and the mixers.
3). Play more with moving the DC power feed points around.?
4). Rip up the filter relays (Allison's suggested filter fix) and rewire or just go with an external filter.
5). If I go with an external relay switched filler, I may buy a 10W amplifier kit, with a pre-driver, that only requires around 100 mW of drive, and tap into the TX drive chain ahead of the PA on the uBITX board. I'll do this at a point that provides enough gain so I can get 10 watts out with reduced audio drive. I might put both the amplifier and the relay switched filters in the same box. May use the Kees relay board with QRP Labs filters.?
6+) Whatever solutions that have been suggested on this forum that help solve the problems not address by the above list.?
I'm willing to accept the current uBITX may not work on every band, and have other limitations, so I my not do every mod that comes along, if it only improves a band or mode I'm not interested in.?
When a new uBITX revision comes out, I'll likely buy one. As the cost of two uBITX transceivers averaged together (one all bands and one a few bands) is still a pretty good price for two radios I the shack. I do hope any new uBITX will have the same form factor, so it can be dropped into any case people have already built for their current uBITX.?
Tom, wb6b
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Re: I find This Shorted Circuit on Raduino, here the pics..plz Help?
#ubitx-help
Hi Fabian, I really would like to help and I understand that you are not happy with the current uBITX situation. But without detailed information it¡¯s not easy and also not much fun. I already asked some questions and gave recommendations but didn¡¯t see answers.
Yes concentrating first on fixing the receive part ?Baustelle¡° is a good idea. From what you¡¯ve described it looks to me that you possibly have changed already too much calibration ?screws¡°. If you cannot do the calibration with help of an AM radio station, you maybe can ask your local DARC ham club for help. They for sure have some frequency generator to help with the alignment and are willing to support a new ham doing his first steps in the ham radio world.
Have you tried this?
One other thing regarding the relais clicks in tx mode. What type of power supply are you using? Is it able to handle the amount of power your uBitx consumes in transmit mode? RV2 and RV3 aligned as described in?documentation?
Calibration done? BFO?
so please do yourself and us a favor and a chance to help and give us as much information you can about what you¡®ve already done or were you still have problems.?
73 Armin
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Re: Amplifier chain design - best practices
Howard, Yes, there are problems up front around the first and second IF's that create harmonics and spurs. Yes, replacing the 30mhz LPF with band specific filters could help with both spurs and harmonics during transmit, though does complicate what is trying to be a simple rig. Here's my take on a couple of your points. Unfortunately, I have not found time to do any experimenting on this stuff myself. > To date most everyone has blamed the poor output filters. We could also fix this problem > by insuring we always drive the transmitter section with a sine wave to begin with.? The output LPF's are fine, it's just board layout and how the relays got wired up that allows way too much blow-by.? When the board is hacked to clean this up, transmissions are fine with respect to harmonics.? The power amp will generate some harmonics (and IMD) on its own, especially when pushing for more power on the upper bands.? Many CW rigs operate class C (so a square wave at the final), simple output LPF's work fine even then. ? > This clock comes from the infamous SI5351 chip that is also causing the spurs. The primary cause of spurs seems to be in the diode ring mixers,? too much signal and not enough local oscillator. The fix is less IF gain and higher local oscillator levels into the mixers. The Si5351 is having a hard time dealing with the 50 ohm 6dB pads it's trying to drive, but otherwise doing pretty good.? Crosstalk due to the heavy loading is causing some carrier leakage and perhaps a few extra spurs.?? Would be interesting to know if anyone's tried this:?? /g/BITX20/message/35206discussed further here:?? /g/BITX20/message/59220Unfortunately, I have not found the time (or the logic analyzer) to evaluate it. Do dig in if you can and let us know if you find some new tricks to help clean the rig up. Jerry, KE7ER
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 07:35 PM, Howard Fidel wrote:
I've been sitting here on the sidelines for a while. I was hoping to have a complete solution finished by now. However, life gets in the way. I unexpectedly got 2 consulting jobs, plus my teaching job has eaten up most of my free time. However, I think it is worth putting? my 2 cents in now.
I will address the harmonics issue. We need to look at the root cause of the problem. The harmonics occurs in CW because it is direct conversion (or no conversion?) CLK 2 runs at the operating frequency. This clock comes from the infamous SI5351 chip that is also causing the spurs. Well, this clock is a square wave. The mixer it drives is unbalanced in CW and the clock just passes through and goes through a lowpass filter. (L1-L4 etc.) This removes frequencies above the 10 meter band. As most of you know, a square wave is made up of only odd harmonics, so we have the 1st, 3rd, 5 th etc. harmonics coming out. So for the 80 meter band operation many harmonics will pass through this lowpass filter get amplified and need to be filtered out by the output lowpass filter. We see fewer harmonics from 40 meters, mainly the 3rd since the others are removed by the first lowpass filter. At 20 meters and above the signal coming out of this filter looks like a sine wave, it has all the harmonics removed, hence there are no harmonics coming out of the transmitter. Garbage in garbage out. There are many ways to solve this problem. To date most everyone has blamed the poor output filters. We could also fix this problem by insuring we always drive the transmitter section with a sine wave to begin with.
So, we could modify the L1-L4 so that its cuttoff frequency is about 8 MHz for use on the 80 and 40 meter bands and stays what it is for the other bands. This will remove the harmonics earlier in the chain.
?Another, easier? way is to heterodyne in CW as well and go through the 45 MHz filter. So we need to move the unbalance circuit from the above mentioned mixer to the CLK1 mixer. Drive this mixer at 45 MHz and clk2 would would be the same frequency as we use for SSB and the harmonics would be gone. To do this all we need to do is lift R105 and so it stands up on the C1 side pad and place a jumper wire from the open end of the resistor to pin 6 of T4. Of course the software needs to be updated, but now without any filter changes, and with a very simple hardware change the harmonics are history!
Howard
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sdr freak
Raj vu2zap