Re: VK4PP uBitx LPF BANK add-on Board
Ok, just adding a bit in here from my side: Relay 1-3 are triggered using the existing 3904s onboard. Relay 4 is a drived via a new 3904 and an extra digital I/O. Firmware changes will be needed regardless as its one output on at a time per filter. Added 100uh smd inductors for RF filtering. If you all like it so far. I will make 10, and happy to post to a few of you with test equipment at no cost, please contact me if you want one.   73 Nick VK4PP
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Wow that looks sooooo good. Great work
Cheers
Kevin VK2KTG
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I don't like to be overly critical, but I've been hinting for months now. ?I am now openly stating that KD8CEC's software has it wrong and it's been wrong from the beginning. ?I call on Ian Lee to clean up his code and get it right before he adds any more junk to his programs.
Jim, W0EB
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On Sep 2, 2018, at 9:33 PM, Gordon Gibby < ggibby@...> wrote:
Yeah but the point is it¡¯s the receiver that should offset. Not the transmitter
On Sep 2, 2018, at 22:31, Jim Tibbits < ab7vf1@...> wrote:
Gotta offset,? can't hear em on the carrier
On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 7:01 PM W2CTX < w2ctx@...> wrote:
Found this video explaining CW Zero-beating.? So based on this explanation the following is illustrated
for 7.040.000:??? Dial displays 07.040.000, you transmit on 07.040.000, and the receive is offset by the
sidetone value.
Of course this is based on the video being correct.
rOb
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Re: VK4PP uBitx LPF BANK add-on Board
Kees - With 6 filters is the plan as follows?
LPF1 = 80M
LPF2 = 40M and 30M
LPF3 = 20M and 17M
LPF4 = 15M
LPF5 = 12M
LPF6 = 10M
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Yes and it was reasonably well done but oversimplified a bit.
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On Sep 2, 2018, at 9:36 PM, W2CTX < w2ctx@...> wrote:
Did you watch the video?
rOn
On September 3, 2018 at 6:36 AM Jim Tibbits <ab7vf1@...> wrote:
Gotta offset,? can't hear em on the carrier
On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 7:01 PM W2CTX < w2ctx@...> wrote: Found this video explaining CW Zero-beating.? So based on this explanation the following is illustrated
for 7.040.000:??? Dial displays 07.040.000, you transmit on 07.040.000, and the receive is offset by the
sidetone value.
Of course this is based on the video being correct.
rOb
?
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Did you watch the video?
rOn
On September 3, 2018 at 6:36 AM Jim Tibbits <ab7vf1@...> wrote:
Gotta offset,? can't hear em on the carrier
On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 7:01 PM W2CTX < w2ctx@...> wrote: Found this video explaining CW Zero-beating.? So based on this explanation the following is illustrated
for 7.040.000:??? Dial displays 07.040.000, you transmit on 07.040.000, and the receive is offset by the
sidetone value.
Of course this is based on the video being correct.
rOb
?
?
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On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 7:33 PM Gordon Gibby < ggibby@...> wrote:
Yeah but the point is it¡¯s the receiver that should offset. Not the transmitter
On Sep 2, 2018, at 22:31, Jim Tibbits < ab7vf1@...> wrote:
Gotta offset,? can't hear em on the carrier
On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 7:01 PM W2CTX < w2ctx@...> wrote:
Found this video explaining CW Zero-beating.? So based on this explanation the following is illustrated
for 7.040.000:??? Dial displays 07.040.000, you transmit on 07.040.000, and the receive is offset by the
sidetone value.
Of course this is based on the video being correct.
rOb
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You can do it the other way around, with the transmitter upset, but then you have to be absolutely certain that the user knows that their transmissions are offset from the dial number.
That¡¯s not terrible, that¡¯s exactly what happens when you¡¯re doing upper or lower sideband, and certainly when you¡¯re doing pseudo CW by injecting an pure audio sinewave signal into a single side band system. ?FLDIGI will do that, and you can even rig
it so your computer shows your correct transmitting frequency
On Sep 2, 2018, at 22:31, Jim Tibbits < ab7vf1@...> wrote:
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Gotta offset,? can't hear em on the carrier
On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 7:01 PM W2CTX < w2ctx@...> wrote:
Found this video explaining CW Zero-beating.? So based on this explanation the following is illustrated
for 7.040.000:??? Dial displays 07.040.000, you transmit on 07.040.000, and the receive is offset by the
sidetone value.
Of course this is based on the video being correct.
rOb
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Yeah but the point is it¡¯s the receiver that should offset. Not the transmitter
On Sep 2, 2018, at 22:31, Jim Tibbits < ab7vf1@...> wrote:
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Show quoted text
Gotta offset,? can't hear em on the carrier
On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 7:01 PM W2CTX < w2ctx@...> wrote:
Found this video explaining CW Zero-beating.? So based on this explanation the following is illustrated
for 7.040.000:??? Dial displays 07.040.000, you transmit on 07.040.000, and the receive is offset by the
sidetone value.
Of course this is based on the video being correct.
rOb
|
Gotta offset,? can't hear em on the carrier
On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 7:01 PM W2CTX < w2ctx@...> wrote:
Found this video explaining CW Zero-beating.? So based on this explanation the following is illustrated
for 7.040.000:??? Dial displays 07.040.000, you transmit on 07.040.000, and the receive is offset by the
sidetone value.
Of course this is based on the video being correct.
rOb
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The explanation is absolutely correct. ?
To all programmers of CW for the uBITX. ?You do NOT offset the transmitter by the sidetone frequency! ?When you press the key, the uBITX must transmit exactly on the display frequency and the RECEIVER must be offset from that frequency by the value of the sidetone. ?Watch the video that W2CTX posted the link to and it explains how it should work.
Jim Sheldon, W0EB CW operator for over 50 years.
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On Sep 2, 2018, at 9:01 PM, W2CTX < w2ctx@...> wrote:
Found this video explaining CW Zero-beating.? So based on this explanation the following is illustrated
for 7.040.000:??? Dial displays 07.040.000, you transmit on 07.040.000, and the receive is offset by the
sidetone value.
Of course this is based on the video being correct.
rOb
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So trying this from another path.?? Did some poking and looking at the Q90-Q97 path today ..Noticed that Q911 thru Q98 all have 100 ohms from the base of the transistor to ground (biasing network) The problem is you only end up with 1 volt on the base ..And with a threshold of 0.7 volts Vbe, that doesn't give much room for any work to be done ...changed them all to 220 ohm ...some better...  Photos show the gain now ..I will change them out to 330 ohm tomorrow and re-align the bias settings for maximum flatness again . Test 80,40,20 and 10 on the SA ...Photos also show the mod I made to replace L8 and L9 ...Those units have DC current flowing through them and that messes with the inductance ..Schematic shows them as 60 uH ..I measured mine when I removed them ..24 uH..Checked inductance while flowing DC current through them and at 10 mA inductance decreased to 14 uH....As those flow minimum 100 mA, I doubt there was much inductance left ...As these are supposed to keep all the nasty RF out of the power supply. I think its little wonder all the spurs created ...The band test I ran showed 9.5 watts on 80,... 10.8 watts on 40,... 10.24 watts on 20 and only 1.8 watts on 10 .. Likely the stacked core "binocular" is contributing th that as it isn't one lump of ferrite ..Losses between the pieces ...
On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 10:16 AM ajparent1/KB1GMX < kb1gmx@...> wrote: On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 08:49 PM, jim wrote:
consider ..Ft of 2n3904 is about 250 Mhz ...If beta rolls off at 6db/octave, then =at 250 Mhz, beta = 1..125 Mhz beta 6db better? (3db doubles =beta 2, 3db doubles beta 4)..60 Mhz 12 db better (4 doubles? 2,4,8,16)...30 Mhz 18 db better .(6 doubles 2,4,8,16,32,64)..
I finally found your text. You are writing inside the quoted section and the web version only shows a blue rectangle with three dots...??on an other wise blank page.? Be careful of the Emailer as its likely burying your answer as a the other guys quote.
Your supposition is however wrong.? For common emitter resistive feedback that is untrue.? The gain falloff is 6db octave
starting at some low frequency so by time you at 30mhz you have gone through a few octaves (3+ for 3-30 or -20db)
you are well down. Add feedback and you are way down as it does not decrease with frequency (in the ubitx case).
It is possible to have a feedback that decreases with frequency but you still run out down the gain.? Where does the
bend in the curve start?? Usually less that 3mhz and its downhill from there.? Also with wideband amsp the C-B feed
back capacitance and other parameters are not in that and they tend to be input and output impedance sensitive
as well as operating current influenced.
The usual calc for resisitive feedback the first parameter is?FT/F=? for 3904 its about 300mhz/30 or a beta of 10.? With
that try to make a power amp stages of 18db, voltage gain maybe but not power.? Assume 50 ohm input and output,
but it doesn't happen even with 200 ohm output.??
That and the HFE as I've written many times before falls with increasing current over 10mA, its in the datasheet.? When
you combine that performance at even milliwatt power is a fail.? At 20Ma is on the down side and at 50mA its down
from the peak by 40%. That or unbounded optimism or a hot batch.? With no margin and a lot of luck how many out
of a thousand will perform well.
Reality is that the 3904s in enough units to be a valid confirm are not performing.? Dial in RF1 for 11W at 80M
the driver output is easily a half watt.? By 30mhz you are down 11db to maybe 45mw.? Where'd the gain go?
Same for the 45mhz amp.? In isolation at 10mhz its 18.9 db, at 45mhz its 13db for 50 ohm in and out as that is
what the filter matching network expects and the mixers.? Also around 15mhz the IF amp is showing noticeable
and increasing phase shift when that hits a high enough number instability is seen save for the projected path
is not enough gain at that point..? Now we add the darlington pair effects sine they are running at .99999 (alpha)
their voltage gain is essentailly one but power gain is the result of high input impedance (limited to the prior stage)
and output impedance or about 4 (6db) so the IF amp has an apparent gain even with the poor showing of the?
3904 of some gain just due to the output power gain of the compounded emitter follower.
Yes you can get 3904 to oscillate at 450mhz too.? Doesn't mean anything as not all do.? But then I got a uV201
to oscillate at UHF once.
?
Allison
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Found this video explaining CW Zero-beating.? So based on this explanation the following is illustrated
for 7.040.000:??? Dial displays 07.040.000, you transmit on 07.040.000, and the receive is offset by the
sidetone value.
Of course this is based on the video being correct.
rOb
|
Re: VK4PP uBitx LPF BANK add-on Board
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Here is what all 4 uBITX LPFs look like as plug-ins. Note that the 6x LPF board is arranged to where you can cut off 1 or 2 of the LPF/BPF positions with no ill effect.
73 Kees K5BCQ<MVC_011S.JPG>
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I have ordered but not yet received a uBitX which I plan to use for 40 meters WSPR.? I have two questions:
1.? Is the simple crystal for the Si5351 sufficiently stable (at least after warm up) for digital modes?? I build WSPR transmitters using the Si5351a for timing but use a Fox TCXO module which costs less than $2.50 instead of a crystal.
2.? WSPR has long 1 minute 52 second key down transmit times.? I plan to transmit on alternate cycles, i.e 2 minutes transmit and 2 minutes recieve.? Will the uBitX support sustained output of 5 watts sith this duty cycle?
Larry
W6LVP
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Re: VK4PP uBitx LPF BANK add-on Board
No sooner did I say that some folks will be challenged to correct the spur issues with surgery and internal boards¡ and low and behold !¡ KE4MIQ posts a very simple outboard filter board¡ exactly what I was talking about.? It¡¯s not for everyone but it¡¯s gonna work for some! ? ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Timothy Fidler
Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2018 6:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BITX20] VK4PP uBitx LPF BANK add-on Board? MRModder it is not so much a a mess. If they realise they cannot safely add an amp and they spin the dice as far as a letter from the FCC/SMA then the sun rises each morning much the same.? The issues for them will be overtaxed components,? vias not fully plated through and needing a soldered in copper stub? and such like.? I guess they did nto figure on getting component removal and SMD soldering skills when they signed up. Bit like the Army or Marines. have to Man up? and tool up? ?:-))? Perhaps? A F could put something like that in his advertising Spiel .. So saith Don Draper... Perhaps not. Timothy E. Fidler : Engineer BE Mech(1) Auckland , NDT specialist AINDT UT /RT3 , MT2?
Telephone Whangarei?? 022? 691 8405
e: Engstr@... ?
----- Original Message -----
? <[email protected]> ? Sun, 2 Sep 2018 08:07:13 -0500 Re: [BITX20] VK4PP uBitx LPF BANK add-on Board
I suppose that does depend on a person¡¯s skill at executing the myriad of expert opinions opined on this group.? I myself do this for a living so I¡¯ve redesigned the entire radio.? That¡¯s one end of the spectrum.? However there is the other end of the spectrum¡ the guy who may have just received his license and bought a uBITx thinking it was a nice cheap way to enter the world of HF that now has to deal with this (like some friends of mine).? They can either rely on the experts (self-proclaimed or otherwise) to bail them out of this mess or be given a very simple solution that is possible for them to execute. ?¡°Hellish crude¡± in your own words for you¡ the only option for someone else. ? ? ? All understood but it hellish crude for a radio which allegedly has push button RF operation selection. Just too many design compromises made. If they had gone for 80 40/30 20 and Ten? mtrs? ?with four filters and a diode OR ..(given the limits ofthe Arduino ) all standard stuff ...the whole thing would never have happened.? so it goes. Timothy E. Fidler : Engineer BE Mech(1) Auckland , NDT specialist AINDT UT /RT3 , MT2?
Telephone Whangarei?? 022? 691 8405
e: Engstr@... ?
----- Original Message -----
? <[email protected]> ? Sun, 2 Sep 2018 01:06:02 -0500 Re: [BITX20] VK4PP uBitx LPF BANK add-on Board I just soldered female BCN connectors to the 4-pin DuPont connectors and plugged the DuPont connectors onto the filter(s)? I then use a double barrel male to connect the filter to the back of the radio.? It¡¯s very simple.? I¡¯m not currently at home or I could post a picture but I think you get the idea.? I suppose you could put this onto a small proto-board easily¡or even use Kees board if you wanted to do something more official? This approach takes this whole spur removal well within the capabilities of even the person that barely knows which end of the soldering iron to hold. ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of mark bodlovich
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2018 11:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BITX20] VK4PP uBitx LPF BANK add-on Board ? Mad Radio Modder;
I'm interested in how you put the qrp labs filter board into the ubitx. I built one and have not put it in yet. Looking for good ideas.?
Thanks, Mark N7HWR ? --
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Re: UBITX TX level diagramme
That¡¯s why I mentioned it.? And yes, most radios do have bandpass filters at intermediate stages for the very reason we are seeing a problem in the uBITx. ? ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ajparent1/KB1GMX
Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2018 4:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BITX20] UBITX TX level diagramme ? MRM,
An example of a DBM radio and oldie is the Atlas180 and friends (210, 215 210x...).
a really simple radio once you cut to the bone.
They use band pass filters for RX and TX pre-power amp and low pass post amp
to take out harmonics.? It was the standard of the day and still is.??
So is the case for bitx20V1, Bitx17, bitx40 and other variations and flavors.
Filter using band pass you get clean, low pass is not adequate filtering save
for harmonics.
Allison -- ¡_. _._
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Re: VK4PP uBitx LPF BANK add-on Board
MRModder it is not so much a a mess. If they realise they cannot safely add an amp and they spin the dice as far as a letter from the FCC/SMA then the sun rises each morning much the same.? The issues for them will be overtaxed components,? vias not fully plated through and needing a soldered in copper stub? and such like.? I guess they did nto figure on getting component removal and SMD soldering skills when they signed up. Bit like the Army or Marines. have to Man up? and tool up? ?:-))? Perhaps? A F could put something like that in his advertising Spiel .. So saith Don Draper... Perhaps not. Timothy E. Fidler : Engineer BE Mech(1) Auckland , NDT specialist AINDT UT /RT3 , MT2?
Telephone Whangarei?? 022? 691 8405
e: Engstr@...
----- Original Message -----
To: <[email protected]>
Cc:
Sent: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 08:07:13 -0500
Subject: Re: [BITX20] VK4PP uBitx LPF BANK add-on Board
I suppose that does depend on a person¡¯s skill at executing the myriad of expert opinions opined on this group.? I myself do this for a living so I¡¯ve redesigned the entire radio.? That¡¯s one end of the spectrum.? However there is the other end of the spectrum¡ the guy who may have just received his license and bought a uBITx thinking it was a nice cheap way to enter the world of HF that now has to deal with this (like some friends of mine).? They can either rely on the experts (self-proclaimed or otherwise) to bail them out of this mess or be given a very simple solution that is possible for them to execute. ?¡°Hellish crude¡± in your own words for you¡ the only option for someone else.
?
? ? All understood but it hellish crude for a radio which allegedly has push button RF operation selection. Just too many design compromises made. If they had gone for 80 40/30 20 and Ten? mtrs? ?with four filters and a diode OR ..(given the limits ofthe Arduino ) all standard stuff ...the whole thing would never have happened.? so it goes. Timothy E. Fidler : Engineer BE Mech(1) Auckland , NDT specialist AINDT UT /RT3 , MT2?
Telephone Whangarei?? 022? 691 8405
e: Engstr@...
?
----- Original Message -----
? <[email protected]>
? Sun, 2 Sep 2018 01:06:02 -0500 Re: [BITX20] VK4PP uBitx LPF BANK add-on Board
I just soldered female BCN connectors to the 4-pin DuPont connectors and plugged the DuPont connectors onto the filter(s)? I then use a double barrel male to connect the filter to the back of the radio.? It¡¯s very simple.? I¡¯m not currently at home or I could post a picture but I think you get the idea.? I suppose you could put this onto a small proto-board easily¡or even use Kees board if you wanted to do something more official? This approach takes this whole spur removal well within the capabilities of even the person that barely knows which end of the soldering iron to hold. ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of mark bodlovich
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2018 11:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BITX20] VK4PP uBitx LPF BANK add-on Board ? Mad Radio Modder;
I'm interested in how you put the qrp labs filter board into the ubitx. I built one and have not put it in yet. Looking for good ideas.?
Thanks, Mark N7HWR
? --
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I have a 3.5 and am patiently waiting on Alan Merrill to update the 3.5 lcd. You can load the released Hmi/tft but will only fill out 3/4 of the larger lcds
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On Sep 2, 2018, at 5:00 PM, Art Olson < olson339@...> wrote: It¡¯s in version 1.097 On Sep 2, 2018, at 4:53 PM, David Posthuma < davep@...> wrote: KD8CEC ?V.1.095 FEATURE REQUEST ¨C RE: CW Settings. Overall, I love what you have done with version 1.095. However, I wish the CW settings could be managed better. It appears that the only way to change key-type and speed is to push the main encoder, make sure Setup is On, and then find the CW type menu item. In the next firmware revision, can we have the table in the bottom left corner of the display that communicates CW information be selectable and bring us right into a large on-screen menu to make these menu selections one level deep instead of 4-5 levels deep in the menu structure? As it is, CW settings are not intuitive and it¡¯s a bit cumbersome to work with. ? Please forgive my critique, your work is truly incredible, ? David A Posthuma, WD8PUO 1 (616) 283-7703 ? ? Mike: ? The 1.095 firmware screen reads ¡°straight¡± for key setting, but when I go into the menu, I cannot find anywhere to change that setting. Nor is the screen label on the screen selectable to change it????? I would think selecting Key-type and keying speed should be a very easy change right from the touchscreen main screen. But I am unable to change any of these settings. ? David A Posthuma, WD8PUO 1 (616) 283-7703 ? ? David
Did you change the setting from ST to IA or IB in the menu?
Mike ZL1AXG
On 1/09/18 2:29 PM, David Posthuma wrote: I am sure I missed this topic, but my keyer worked fine until I upgraded the firmware to KD8CEC's V. 1.095 for use with my 4.3-inch Nextion?display. Since the upgrade, I can only use a straight?key. What did I miss??
?
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It has been released. Not sure lcd size you have as he only supports the small size. Lcd.?
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On Sep 2, 2018, at 5:00 PM, Art Olson < olson339@...> wrote: It¡¯s in version 1.097 On Sep 2, 2018, at 4:53 PM, David Posthuma < davep@...> wrote: KD8CEC ?V.1.095 FEATURE REQUEST ¨C RE: CW Settings. Overall, I love what you have done with version 1.095. However, I wish the CW settings could be managed better. It appears that the only way to change key-type and speed is to push the main encoder, make sure Setup is On, and then find the CW type menu item. In the next firmware revision, can we have the table in the bottom left corner of the display that communicates CW information be selectable and bring us right into a large on-screen menu to make these menu selections one level deep instead of 4-5 levels deep in the menu structure? As it is, CW settings are not intuitive and it¡¯s a bit cumbersome to work with. ? Please forgive my critique, your work is truly incredible, ? David A Posthuma, WD8PUO 1 (616) 283-7703 ? ? Mike: ? The 1.095 firmware screen reads ¡°straight¡± for key setting, but when I go into the menu, I cannot find anywhere to change that setting. Nor is the screen label on the screen selectable to change it????? I would think selecting Key-type and keying speed should be a very easy change right from the touchscreen main screen. But I am unable to change any of these settings. ? David A Posthuma, WD8PUO 1 (616) 283-7703 ? ? David
Did you change the setting from ST to IA or IB in the menu?
Mike ZL1AXG
On 1/09/18 2:29 PM, David Posthuma wrote: I am sure I missed this topic, but my keyer worked fine until I upgraded the firmware to KD8CEC's V. 1.095 for use with my 4.3-inch Nextion?display. Since the upgrade, I can only use a straight?key. What did I miss??
?
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Nick VK4PP
Jim Sheldon
MadRadioModder