I think I found the problem, or at least part of it. I changed the 15pf capacitor in series with the variable cap and replaced it with a 22pf. I now have almost 2KC of tuning. I can actually hear changes when I adjust the variable cap. But it still doesn't seem like it is enough. I'll try and tune the carrior modulator and see how that goes. Jerry K5LRU
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In BITX20@..., "Paul Daulton" <k5wms@...> wrote:
Jerry I wonder if your xtal\s came with thie kit or you sourced them some where else? Try swaping an xtal from filter with the bfo xtal. Could the xtals be series resonant type? rather than parralell types?
Paul k5wms
Quoting jerryk5lru :
Arvid
I wound a 37-6 with fifty turns as per the calculator, worse. I shorted the crystal and found I had moved lower to 6190. from the 8200. But still had the 135 KC tunable range with the crystal shorted. I played with the coil until I got it to the 9995. range with the crystal shorted and still had 135 KC tuning range, when I removed the short it went back to just a 5HZ tuning range.
--- In BITX20@..., arv wrote:
Jerry K5LRU
That indicates that your BFO oscillator should be tunable. Next step would be to check capacitor and inductor values to make it tune across the crystal frequency. You can change the inductor to a toroid core (T37-6 should work) and adjust the turns until you get it to the right frequency. Toroid calculator located at can help with that task.
Arv K7HKL _._
On 06/27/2013 10:59 PM, jerryk5lru wrote:
The crystal brand is KDS. I took your advice Arv and shorted the > crystal out and the frequency tuned from 8104. MHz to 8239. Mhz 105 KC > range. But way lower than the 9995. Mhz area. Jerry K5LRU
--- In BITX20@... , arv > > wrote: > > > > > > Jerry K5LRU > > > > > > The LC network in series with the crystal (including series-C of the two > > > feedback divider caps) needs to tune to the crystal frequency. Tuning > > > this resonant network a bit above to a bit below the crystal frequency > > > is what pulls it up or down. > > > > > > I would check the resonance components associated with the crystal. > > > You might be able to get an idea of what is going on by temporarily > > > soldering a very short wire across the crystal to take it > > out-of-circuit. > > > Then check the oscillator frequency. It should be close to the crystal > > > frequency with the crystal shorted. Tuning range with the crystal > >
shorted will be more than with the crystal in-circuit, but this will > > tell > > > you if your tunable network really is tunable. >
Arv K7HKL > > > _._ > > > > > > On 06/27/2013 12:02 PM,
Paul Daulton wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What type and brand of xtals are you using? > > > > > > > > Paul k5wms > > > > > >
Quoting jerryk5lru : > > > > > > > > This is a Bitx20 Version 3. I'm almost done with it. The receiver > > > > receives good, the VFO bandwidth is between 14,000. and 14,450. The > > > > exciter produces a signal of 500mv and the PA kicks that up to > > around 4 > > > > volts. When trying to tune the BFO and the carrier balance is where I
have the problem. My frequency is 9995.31 mhz at the emitter
of Q9. > > > > Here is where the problem starts. Leonards instructions say I should > > > > have 15kc adjustment. But all I have is about 3 hertz, not kilohertz > > > > with the 22pf trimmer. So when I try to adjust the carrier balance, in > > > > transmit, 7 db down the filter skirt, I have no adjustment. The > > carrier > > >
balance is .321mv on the low side and .634mv on the high side. It > nulls > > > > out in the middle of the pot. This is why I think I'm not getting > > > > enough drive. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jerry K5LRU >
Paul Daulton K5WMS > > > > beacon WMS 185.302 khz
qrss30/slow 24/7 > > > > Jacksonville,Ar 72076 > > > > em34wu > > > >
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >
[Non-text portions of this message
have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Paul Daulton K5WMS beacon WMS 185.302 khz qrss30/slow 24/7 Jacksonville,Ar 72076 em34wu
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
I'd really be suspicious of having a wrong value capacitor in the BFO circuit. Almost anything else would cause a small difference, not the big change you have. Leonard
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In BITX20@..., "Paul Daulton" <k5wms@...> wrote:
Jerry I wonder if your xtal\s came with thie kit or you sourced them some where else? Try swaping an xtal from filter with the bfo xtal. Could the xtals be series resonant type? rather than parralell types?
Paul k5wms
Quoting jerryk5lru :
Arvid
I wound a 37-6 with fifty turns as per the calculator, worse. I shorted the crystal and found I had moved lower to 6190. from the 8200. But still had the 135 KC tunable range with the crystal shorted. I played with the coil until I got it to the 9995. range with the crystal shorted and still had 135 KC tuning range, when I removed the short it went back to just a 5HZ tuning range.
--- In BITX20@..., arv wrote:
Jerry K5LRU
That indicates that your BFO oscillator should be tunable. Next step would be to check capacitor and inductor values to make it tune across the crystal frequency. You can change the inductor to a toroid core (T37-6 should work) and adjust the turns until you get it to the right frequency. Toroid calculator located at can help with that task.
Arv K7HKL _._
On 06/27/2013 10:59 PM, jerryk5lru wrote:
The crystal brand is KDS. I took your advice Arv and shorted the > crystal out and the frequency tuned from 8104. MHz to 8239. Mhz 105 KC > range. But way lower than the 9995. Mhz area. Jerry K5LRU
--- In BITX20@... , arv > > wrote: > > > > > > Jerry K5LRU > > > > > > The LC network in series with the crystal (including series-C of the two > > > feedback divider caps) needs to tune to the crystal frequency. Tuning > > > this resonant network a bit above to a bit below the crystal frequency > > > is what pulls it up or down. > > > > > > I would check the resonance components associated with the crystal. > > > You might be able to get an idea of what is going on by temporarily > > > soldering a very short wire across the crystal to take it > > out-of-circuit. > > > Then check the oscillator frequency. It should be close to the crystal > > > frequency with the crystal shorted. Tuning range with the crystal > >
shorted will be more than with the crystal in-circuit, but this will > > tell > > > you if your tunable network really is tunable. >
Arv K7HKL > > > _._ > > > > > > On 06/27/2013 12:02 PM,
Paul Daulton wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What type and brand of xtals are you using? > > > > > > > > Paul k5wms > > > > > >
Quoting jerryk5lru : > > > > > > > > This is a Bitx20 Version 3. I'm almost done with it. The receiver > > > > receives good, the VFO bandwidth is between 14,000. and 14,450. The > > > > exciter produces a signal of 500mv and the PA kicks that up to > > around 4 > > > > volts. When trying to tune the BFO and the carrier balance is where I
have the problem. My frequency is 9995.31 mhz at the emitter
of Q9. > > > > Here is where the problem starts. Leonards instructions say I should > > > > have 15kc adjustment. But all I have is about 3 hertz, not kilohertz > > > > with the 22pf trimmer. So when I try to adjust the carrier balance, in > > > > transmit, 7 db down the filter skirt, I have no adjustment. The > > carrier > > >
balance is .321mv on the low side and .634mv on the high side. It > nulls > > > > out in the middle of the pot. This is why I think I'm not getting > > > > enough drive. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jerry K5LRU >
Paul Daulton K5WMS > > > > beacon WMS 185.302 khz
qrss30/slow 24/7 > > > > Jacksonville,Ar 72076 > > > > em34wu > > > >
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >
[Non-text portions of this message
have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Paul Daulton K5WMS beacon WMS 185.302 khz qrss30/slow 24/7 Jacksonville,Ar 72076 em34wu
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
Jerry I wonder if your xtal\s came with thie kit or you sourced them some where else? Try swaping an xtal from filter with the bfo xtal. Could the xtals be series resonant type? rather than parralell types? Paul k5wms Quoting jerryk5lru : Arvid I wound a 37-6 with fifty turns as per the calculator, worse. I shorted the crystal and found I had moved lower to 6190. from the 8200. But still had the 135 KC tunable range with the crystal shorted. I played with the coil until I got it to the 9995. range with the crystal shorted and still had 135 KC tuning range, when I removed the short it went back to just a 5HZ tuning range. --- In BITX20@..., arv wrote: Jerry K5LRU
That indicates that your BFO oscillator should be tunable. Next step would be to check capacitor and inductor values to make it tune across the crystal frequency. You can change the inductor to a toroid core (T37-6 should work) and adjust the turns until you get it to the right frequency. Toroid calculator located at can help with that task.
Arv K7HKL _._
On 06/27/2013 10:59 PM, jerryk5lru wrote:
The crystal brand is KDS. I took your advice Arv and shorted the > crystal out and the frequency tuned from 8104. MHz to 8239. Mhz 105 KC > range. But way lower than the 9995. Mhz area. Jerry K5LRU
--- In BITX20@... , arv > > wrote: > > > > > > Jerry K5LRU > > > > > > The LC network in series with the crystal (including series-C of the two > > > feedback divider caps) needs to tune to the crystal frequency. Tuning > > > this resonant network a bit above to a bit below the crystal frequency > > > is what pulls it up or down. > > > > > > I would check the resonance components associated with the crystal. > > > You might be able to get an idea of what is going on by temporarily > > > soldering a very short wire across the crystal to take it > > out-of-circuit. > > > Then check the oscillator frequency. It should be close to the crystal > > > frequency with the crystal shorted. Tuning range with the crystal > >
shorted will be more than with the crystal in-circuit, but this will > > tell > > > you if your tunable network really is tunable. >
Arv K7HKL > > > _._ > > > > > > On 06/27/2013 12:02 PM,
Paul Daulton wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What type and brand of xtals are you using? > > > > > > > > Paul k5wms > > > > > >
Quoting jerryk5lru : > > > > > > > > This is a Bitx20 Version 3. I'm almost done with it. The receiver > > > > receives good, the VFO bandwidth is between 14,000. and 14,450. The > > > > exciter produces a signal of 500mv and the PA kicks that up to > > around 4 > > > > volts. When trying to tune the BFO and the carrier balance is where I
have the problem. My frequency is 9995.31 mhz at the emitter
of Q9. > > > > Here is where the problem starts. Leonards instructions say I should > > > > have 15kc adjustment. But all I have is about 3 hertz, not kilohertz > > > > with the 22pf trimmer. So when I try to adjust the carrier balance, in > > > > transmit, 7 db down the filter skirt, I have no adjustment. The > > carrier > > >
balance is .321mv on the low side and .634mv on the high side. It > nulls > > > > out in the middle of the pot. This is why I think I'm not getting > > > > enough drive. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jerry K5LRU >
Paul Daulton K5WMS > > > > beacon WMS 185.302 khz
qrss30/slow 24/7 > > > > Jacksonville,Ar 72076 > > > > em34wu > > > >
> > > >
[Non-text portions of this message
have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Paul Daulton K5WMS beacon WMS 185.302 khz qrss30/slow 24/7 Jacksonville,Ar 72076 em34wu
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
Jerry
Something really strange going on there. Do you have a different crystal in the same frequency range that could be substituted into the circuit?
Alternatively you might be able to build up a similar oscillator using ugly-style on a scrap of PCB and verify that your crystal can, or cannot, be tuned. If you don't reuse any L or C from the original circuit that would tell you if the problem is the crystal or one of the other components.
Since the IF filter crystals are the same frequency, it might be possible to try one of them in place of your present BFO crystal. Might prove something, or might not...?
The LC tuning mechanism can be changed from parallel to series, or vice-versa, to see if that makes a difference. My preference has always been to put the L in series with the C, and that in series with the crystal, but I have seen it with the LC network being parallel and that in series with the crystal. Both ways usually seem to work.
Arv _._
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Show quoted text
On 06/28/2013 10:49 AM, jerryk5lru wrote: Arvid
I wound a 37-6 with fifty turns as per the calculator, worse. I shorted the crystal and found I had moved lower to 6190. from the 8200. But still had the 135 KC tunable range with the crystal shorted. I played with the coil until I got it to the 9995. range with the crystal shorted and still had 135 KC tuning range, when I removed the short it went back to just a 5HZ tuning range.
--- In BITX20@... <mailto:BITX20%40yahoogroups.com>, arv <arvid.evans@...> wrote:
Jerry K5LRU
That indicates that your BFO oscillator should be tunable. Next step would
be to check capacitor and inductor values to make it tune across the crystal
frequency. You can change the inductor to a toroid core (T37-6 should work)
and adjust the turns until you get it to the right frequency. Toroid calculator located at <> can help with that task.
Arv K7HKL _._
On 06/27/2013 10:59 PM, jerryk5lru wrote:
The crystal brand is KDS. I took your advice Arv and shorted the crystal out and the frequency tuned from 8104. MHz to 8239. Mhz
105 KC
range. But way lower than the 9995. Mhz area. Jerry K5LRU
--- In BITX20@... <mailto:BITX20%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:BITX20%40yahoogroups.com>, arv
<arvid.evans@> wrote:
Jerry K5LRU
The LC network in series with the crystal (including series-C of
the two
feedback divider caps) needs to tune to the crystal frequency.
Tuning
this resonant network a bit above to a bit below the crystal
frequency
is what pulls it up or down.
I would check the resonance components associated with the crystal. You might be able to get an idea of what is going on by temporarily soldering a very short wire across the crystal to take it out-of-circuit.
Then check the oscillator frequency. It should be close to the
crystal
frequency with the crystal shorted. Tuning range with the crystal shorted will be more than with the crystal in-circuit, but this
will
tell
you if your tunable network really is tunable.
Arv K7HKL _._
On 06/27/2013 12:02 PM, Paul Daulton wrote:
What type and brand of xtals are you using?
Paul k5wms
Quoting jerryk5lru :
This is a Bitx20 Version 3. I'm almost done with it. The receiver receives good, the VFO bandwidth is between 14,000. and
14,450. The
exciter produces a signal of 500mv and the PA kicks that up to around 4
volts. When trying to tune the BFO and the carrier balance is
where I
have the problem. My frequency is 9995.31 mhz at the emitter
of Q9.
Here is where the problem starts. Leonards instructions say I
should
have 15kc adjustment. But all I have is about 3 hertz, not
kilohertz
with the 22pf trimmer. So when I try to adjust the carrier
balance, in
transmit, 7 db down the filter skirt, I have no adjustment. The carrier
balance is .321mv on the low side and .634mv on the high side. It nulls
out in the middle of the pot. This is why I think I'm not getting enough drive. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jerry K5LRU
Paul Daulton K5WMS beacon WMS 185.302 khz qrss30/slow 24/7 Jacksonville,Ar 72076 em34wu
|
Arvid
I wound a 37-6 with fifty turns as per the calculator, worse. I shorted the crystal and found I had moved lower to 6190. from the 8200. But still had the 135 KC tunable range with the crystal shorted. I played with the coil until I got it to the 9995. range with the crystal shorted and still had 135 KC tuning range, when I removed the short it went back to just a 5HZ tuning range.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In BITX20@..., arv <arvid.evans@...> wrote: Jerry K5LRU
That indicates that your BFO oscillator should be tunable. Next step would be to check capacitor and inductor values to make it tune across the crystal frequency. You can change the inductor to a toroid core (T37-6 should work) and adjust the turns until you get it to the right frequency. Toroid calculator located at <> can help with that task.
Arv K7HKL _._
On 06/27/2013 10:59 PM, jerryk5lru wrote:
The crystal brand is KDS. I took your advice Arv and shorted the crystal out and the frequency tuned from 8104. MHz to 8239. Mhz 105 KC range. But way lower than the 9995. Mhz area. Jerry K5LRU
--- In BITX20@... <mailto:BITX20%40yahoogroups.com>, arv <arvid.evans@> wrote:
Jerry K5LRU
The LC network in series with the crystal (including series-C of the two feedback divider caps) needs to tune to the crystal frequency. Tuning this resonant network a bit above to a bit below the crystal frequency is what pulls it up or down.
I would check the resonance components associated with the crystal. You might be able to get an idea of what is going on by temporarily soldering a very short wire across the crystal to take it out-of-circuit.
Then check the oscillator frequency. It should be close to the crystal frequency with the crystal shorted. Tuning range with the crystal shorted will be more than with the crystal in-circuit, but this will tell
you if your tunable network really is tunable.
Arv K7HKL _._
On 06/27/2013 12:02 PM, Paul Daulton wrote:
What type and brand of xtals are you using?
Paul k5wms
Quoting jerryk5lru :
This is a Bitx20 Version 3. I'm almost done with it. The receiver receives good, the VFO bandwidth is between 14,000. and 14,450. The exciter produces a signal of 500mv and the PA kicks that up to
around 4
volts. When trying to tune the BFO and the carrier balance is where I have the problem. My frequency is 9995.31 mhz at the emitter of Q9. Here is where the problem starts. Leonards instructions say I should have 15kc adjustment. But all I have is about 3 hertz, not kilohertz with the 22pf trimmer. So when I try to adjust the carrier balance, in transmit, 7 db down the filter skirt, I have no adjustment. The carrier
balance is .321mv on the low side and .634mv on the high side. It nulls
out in the middle of the pot. This is why I think I'm not getting enough drive. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jerry K5LRU
Paul Daulton K5WMS beacon WMS 185.302 khz qrss30/slow 24/7 Jacksonville,Ar 72076 em34wu
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
Jerry K5LRU
That indicates that your BFO oscillator should be tunable. Next step would be to check capacitor and inductor values to make it tune across the crystal frequency. You can change the inductor to a toroid core (T37-6 should work) and adjust the turns until you get it to the right frequency. Toroid calculator located at <> can help with that task.
Arv K7HKL _._
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 06/27/2013 10:59 PM, jerryk5lru wrote: The crystal brand is KDS. I took your advice Arv and shorted the crystal out and the frequency tuned from 8104. MHz to 8239. Mhz 105 KC range. But way lower than the 9995. Mhz area. Jerry K5LRU
--- In BITX20@... <mailto:BITX20%40yahoogroups.com>, arv <arvid.evans@...> wrote:
Jerry K5LRU
The LC network in series with the crystal (including series-C of the two feedback divider caps) needs to tune to the crystal frequency. Tuning this resonant network a bit above to a bit below the crystal frequency is what pulls it up or down.
I would check the resonance components associated with the crystal. You might be able to get an idea of what is going on by temporarily soldering a very short wire across the crystal to take it out-of-circuit.
Then check the oscillator frequency. It should be close to the crystal frequency with the crystal shorted. Tuning range with the crystal shorted will be more than with the crystal in-circuit, but this will tell
you if your tunable network really is tunable.
Arv K7HKL _._
On 06/27/2013 12:02 PM, Paul Daulton wrote:
What type and brand of xtals are you using?
Paul k5wms
Quoting jerryk5lru :
This is a Bitx20 Version 3. I'm almost done with it. The receiver receives good, the VFO bandwidth is between 14,000. and 14,450. The exciter produces a signal of 500mv and the PA kicks that up to
around 4
volts. When trying to tune the BFO and the carrier balance is where I have the problem. My frequency is 9995.31 mhz at the emitter of Q9. Here is where the problem starts. Leonards instructions say I should have 15kc adjustment. But all I have is about 3 hertz, not kilohertz with the 22pf trimmer. So when I try to adjust the carrier balance, in transmit, 7 db down the filter skirt, I have no adjustment. The carrier
balance is .321mv on the low side and .634mv on the high side. It nulls
out in the middle of the pot. This is why I think I'm not getting enough drive. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jerry K5LRU
Paul Daulton K5WMS beacon WMS 185.302 khz qrss30/slow 24/7 Jacksonville,Ar 72076 em34wu
|
The crystal brand is KDS. I took your advice Arv and shorted the crystal out and the frequency tuned from 8104. MHz to 8239. Mhz 105 KC range. But way lower than the 9995. Mhz area. Jerry K5LRU
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In BITX20@..., arv <arvid.evans@...> wrote: Jerry K5LRU
The LC network in series with the crystal (including series-C of the two feedback divider caps) needs to tune to the crystal frequency. Tuning this resonant network a bit above to a bit below the crystal frequency is what pulls it up or down.
I would check the resonance components associated with the crystal. You might be able to get an idea of what is going on by temporarily soldering a very short wire across the crystal to take it out-of-circuit. Then check the oscillator frequency. It should be close to the crystal frequency with the crystal shorted. Tuning range with the crystal shorted will be more than with the crystal in-circuit, but this will tell you if your tunable network really is tunable.
Arv K7HKL _._
On 06/27/2013 12:02 PM, Paul Daulton wrote:
What type and brand of xtals are you using?
Paul k5wms
Quoting jerryk5lru :
This is a Bitx20 Version 3. I'm almost done with it. The receiver receives good, the VFO bandwidth is between 14,000. and 14,450. The exciter produces a signal of 500mv and the PA kicks that up to around 4 volts. When trying to tune the BFO and the carrier balance is where I have the problem. My frequency is 9995.31 mhz at the emitter of Q9. Here is where the problem starts. Leonards instructions say I should have 15kc adjustment. But all I have is about 3 hertz, not kilohertz with the 22pf trimmer. So when I try to adjust the carrier balance, in transmit, 7 db down the filter skirt, I have no adjustment. The carrier balance is .321mv on the low side and .634mv on the high side. It nulls out in the middle of the pot. This is why I think I'm not getting enough drive. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jerry K5LRU
Paul Daulton K5WMS beacon WMS 185.302 khz qrss30/slow 24/7 Jacksonville,Ar 72076 em34wu
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
Jerry K5LRU
The LC network in series with the crystal (including series-C of the two feedback divider caps) needs to tune to the crystal frequency. Tuning this resonant network a bit above to a bit below the crystal frequency is what pulls it up or down.
I would check the resonance components associated with the crystal. You might be able to get an idea of what is going on by temporarily soldering a very short wire across the crystal to take it out-of-circuit. Then check the oscillator frequency. It should be close to the crystal frequency with the crystal shorted. Tuning range with the crystal shorted will be more than with the crystal in-circuit, but this will tell you if your tunable network really is tunable.
Arv K7HKL _._
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 06/27/2013 12:02 PM, Paul Daulton wrote:
What type and brand of xtals are you using?
Paul k5wms
Quoting jerryk5lru :
This is a Bitx20 Version 3. I'm almost done with it. The receiver receives good, the VFO bandwidth is between 14,000. and 14,450. The exciter produces a signal of 500mv and the PA kicks that up to around 4 volts. When trying to tune the BFO and the carrier balance is where I have the problem. My frequency is 9995.31 mhz at the emitter of Q9. Here is where the problem starts. Leonards instructions say I should have 15kc adjustment. But all I have is about 3 hertz, not kilohertz with the 22pf trimmer. So when I try to adjust the carrier balance, in transmit, 7 db down the filter skirt, I have no adjustment. The carrier balance is .321mv on the low side and .634mv on the high side. It nulls out in the middle of the pot. This is why I think I'm not getting enough drive. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jerry K5LRU
Paul Daulton K5WMS beacon WMS 185.302 khz qrss30/slow 24/7 Jacksonville,Ar 72076 em34wu
|
What type and brand of xtals are you using?
Paul k5wms
Quoting jerryk5lru :
This is a Bitx20 Version 3. I'm almost done with it. The receiver receives good, the VFO bandwidth is between 14,000. and 14,450. The exciter produces a signal of 500mv and the PA kicks that up to around 4 volts. When trying to tune the BFO and the carrier balance is where I have the problem. My frequency is 9995.31 mhz at the emitter of Q9. Here is where the problem starts. Leonards instructions say I should have 15kc adjustment. But all I have is about 3 hertz, not kilohertz with the 22pf trimmer. So when I try to adjust the carrier balance, in transmit, 7 db down the filter skirt, I have no adjustment. The carrier balance is .321mv on the low side and .634mv on the high side. It nulls out in the middle of the pot. This is why I think I'm not getting enough drive. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jerry K5LRU
Paul Daulton K5WMS beacon WMS 185.302 khz qrss30/slow 24/7 Jacksonville,Ar 72076 em34wu
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
This is a Bitx20 Version 3. I'm almost done with it. The receiver receives good, the VFO bandwidth is between 14,000. and 14,450. The exciter produces a signal of 500mv and the PA kicks that up to around 4 volts. When trying to tune the BFO and the carrier balance is where I have the problem. My frequency is 9995.31 mhz at the emitter of Q9. Here is where the problem starts. Leonards instructions say I should have 15kc adjustment. But all I have is about 3 hertz, not kilohertz with the 22pf trimmer. So when I try to adjust the carrier balance, in transmit, 7 db down the filter skirt, I have no adjustment. The carrier balance is .321mv on the low side and .634mv on the high side. It nulls out in the middle of the pot. This is why I think I'm not getting enough drive. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jerry K5LRU
|
Re: More Power Out From Bitx 20/3?
Works for me! _._
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Show quoted text
On 06/20/2013 12:43 PM, Leonard wrote: Why can't you take the 12.6 volts supply for the 20a and at about 10 watts out the current draw is about 2 amps. Subtract about 300mas no mod current and you get 12.6 x 1.7 = 21.42 watts. If you figure 50% efficency you would have about 10.5 watts out.
If that doesn't work, let me know. It makes sense to me. Leonard
--- In BITX20@... <mailto:BITX20%40yahoogroups.com>, arv <arvid.evans@...> wrote:
Arnab - VU2BPW
This sometimes confuses me as well.
It seems that the key is in impedance relative to voltage and current. If
we lower the impedance the current will increase and voltage will stay the same.
In case of a push-pull output stage like the BITX20A, the output transformer has a turns arrangement of 6 turns on the primary and 8 turns
on the secondary. Since the antenna presents a 50 ohm load and the antenna LPF is designed for 50 ohms on each end, the impedance seen by the MOSFETs would be lower than 50 ohms. This allows the current to be more than would be the case if the MOSFETs were operating into a 50 ohm load.
In the original BITX and in the BITX Version-3, the final amplifier is a
single MOSFET operating into an autotransformer arrangement. This lowers the impedance seen by the MOSFET, and allows higher current and higher power than would be the case if the MOSFET were operating into a 50 ohm load.
If we assume that a lower load impedance at the output device causes more
current to flow, then increasing power is a matter of changing the output
impedance transformation so that more current can flow and still maintain
a 50 ohm match to the antenna. If the voltage remains the same, then the impedance will be lower and power will be higher. Of course there are some
limitations to this idea. Resistance in transformer windings, core saturation in transformers, on-resistance in MOSFETs, and non-linearity in MOSFET devices all conspire to work against us in low voltage and high power situations.
Arv - K7HKL _._
On 06/20/2013 11:08 AM, arnab bhaumik wrote:
hi arv,
i am still a little bit confused. with 12volt and a single irf510 based design, how much rf power can we get??? 12volt rf across 50 ohm load, so my calculation goes
12v * .707 = 8.484 rms
rms square = 8.484 * 8.484 = 71.978
rms square / 50 = 71.978/50 = 1.43watt.
it seems with the math formula we can get max 1.43 watt from 12volt with single irf. thats why people increase the linear voltage to 24volt . so that they can get rf of around 5.75watt.
please clarify this.
arnab/vu2bpw
ps - this is the reason i tried irf push pull to get 5watt with
12volt
supply voltage. (but failed)
________________________________ From: arv <arvid.evans@... <mailto:arvid.evans%40gmail.com>> To: BITX20@... <mailto:BITX20%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:BITX20%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 20 June 2013 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [BITX20] More Power Out From Bitx 20/3?
Rob
I think that it may take more than just increasing voltage to the output
MOSFET. If you change the voltage the current will change and impedances
involved will change. That would seem to require that the output transformer would then need to be re-designed for the new impedance in order to match
the output LPF and antenna impedance.
Arv - K7HKL _._
On 06/20/2013 07:43 AM, rob_kay14758 wrote:
Bitx is built and seems to be working o.k. on 20M,running on
external
13v supply. If i increased the voltage on the pa transistor only to say 25v would we see much of an increase in power? This circuit also looked interesting as an add on..........
Any thoughts.... Thanks Rob
|
Re: More Power Out From Bitx 20/3?
Why can't you take the 12.6 volts supply for the 20a and at about 10 watts out the current draw is about 2 amps. Subtract about 300mas no mod current and you get 12.6 x 1.7 = 21.42 watts. If you figure 50% efficency you would have about 10.5 watts out.
If that doesn't work, let me know. It makes sense to me. Leonard
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In BITX20@..., arv <arvid.evans@...> wrote: Arnab - VU2BPW
This sometimes confuses me as well.
It seems that the key is in impedance relative to voltage and current. If we lower the impedance the current will increase and voltage will stay the same.
In case of a push-pull output stage like the BITX20A, the output transformer has a turns arrangement of 6 turns on the primary and 8 turns on the secondary. Since the antenna presents a 50 ohm load and the antenna LPF is designed for 50 ohms on each end, the impedance seen by the MOSFETs would be lower than 50 ohms. This allows the current to be more than would be the case if the MOSFETs were operating into a 50 ohm load.
In the original BITX and in the BITX Version-3, the final amplifier is a single MOSFET operating into an autotransformer arrangement. This lowers the impedance seen by the MOSFET, and allows higher current and higher power than would be the case if the MOSFET were operating into a 50 ohm load.
If we assume that a lower load impedance at the output device causes more current to flow, then increasing power is a matter of changing the output impedance transformation so that more current can flow and still maintain a 50 ohm match to the antenna. If the voltage remains the same, then the impedance will be lower and power will be higher. Of course there are some limitations to this idea. Resistance in transformer windings, core saturation in transformers, on-resistance in MOSFETs, and non-linearity in MOSFET devices all conspire to work against us in low voltage and high power situations.
Arv - K7HKL _._
On 06/20/2013 11:08 AM, arnab bhaumik wrote:
hi arv,
i am still a little bit confused. with 12volt and a single irf510 based design, how much rf power can we get??? 12volt rf across 50 ohm load, so my calculation goes
12v * .707 = 8.484 rms
rms square = 8.484 * 8.484 = 71.978
rms square / 50 = 71.978/50 = 1.43watt.
it seems with the math formula we can get max 1.43 watt from 12volt with single irf. thats why people increase the linear voltage to 24volt . so that they can get rf of around 5.75watt.
please clarify this.
arnab/vu2bpw
ps - this is the reason i tried irf push pull to get 5watt with 12volt supply voltage. (but failed)
________________________________ From: arv <arvid.evans@... <mailto:arvid.evans%40gmail.com>> To: BITX20@... <mailto:BITX20%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, 20 June 2013 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [BITX20] More Power Out From Bitx 20/3?
Rob
I think that it may take more than just increasing voltage to the output MOSFET. If you change the voltage the current will change and impedances involved will change. That would seem to require that the output transformer would then need to be re-designed for the new impedance in order to match the output LPF and antenna impedance.
Arv - K7HKL _._
On 06/20/2013 07:43 AM, rob_kay14758 wrote:
Bitx is built and seems to be working o.k. on 20M,running on external 13v supply. If i increased the voltage on the pa transistor only to say 25v would we see much of an increase in power? This circuit also looked interesting as an add on..........
Any thoughts.... Thanks Rob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
Re: More Power Out From Bitx 20/3?
Arnab - VU2BPW This sometimes confuses me as well. It seems that the key is in impedance relative to voltage and current. If we lower the impedance the current will increase and voltage will stay the same. In case of a push-pull output stage like the BITX20A, the output transformer has a turns arrangement of 6 turns on the primary and 8 turns on the secondary. Since the antenna presents a 50 ohm load and the antenna LPF is designed for 50 ohms on each end, the impedance seen by the MOSFETs would be lower than 50 ohms. This allows the current to be more than would be the case if the MOSFETs were operating into a 50 ohm load. In the original BITX and in the BITX Version-3, the final amplifier is a single MOSFET operating into an autotransformer arrangement. This lowers the impedance seen by the MOSFET, and allows higher current and higher power than would be the case if the MOSFET were operating into a 50 ohm load. If we assume that a lower load impedance at the output device causes more current to flow, then increasing power is a matter of changing the output impedance transformation so that more current can flow and still maintain a 50 ohm match to the antenna. If the voltage remains the same, then the impedance will be lower and power will be higher. Of course there are some limitations to this idea. Resistance in transformer windings, core saturation in transformers, on-resistance in MOSFETs, and non-linearity in MOSFET devices all conspire to work against us in low voltage and high power situations. Arv - K7HKL _._ On 06/20/2013 11:08 AM, arnab bhaumik wrote: hi arv,
i am still a little bit confused. with 12volt and a single irf510 based design, how much rf power can we get??? 12volt rf across 50 ohm load, so my calculation goes
12v * .707 = 8.484 rms
rms square = 8.484 * 8.484 = 71.978
rms square / 50 = 71.978/50 = 1.43watt.
it seems with the math formula we can get max 1.43 watt from 12volt with single irf. thats why people increase the linear voltage to 24volt . so that they can get rf of around 5.75watt.
please clarify this.
arnab/vu2bpw
ps - this is the reason i tried irf push pull to get 5watt with 12volt supply voltage. (but failed)
________________________________ From: arv <arvid.evans@... <mailto:arvid.evans%40gmail.com>> To: BITX20@... <mailto:BITX20%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, 20 June 2013 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [BITX20] More Power Out From Bitx 20/3?
Rob
I think that it may take more than just increasing voltage to the output MOSFET. If you change the voltage the current will change and impedances involved will change. That would seem to require that the output transformer would then need to be re-designed for the new impedance in order to match the output LPF and antenna impedance.
Arv - K7HKL _._
On 06/20/2013 07:43 AM, rob_kay14758 wrote:
Bitx is built and seems to be working o.k. on 20M,running on external 13v supply. If i increased the voltage on the pa transistor only to say 25v would we see much of an increase in power? This circuit also looked interesting as an add on..........
Any thoughts.... Thanks Rob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
Re: More Power Out From Bitx 20/3?
hi arv, ??? i am still a little bit confused. with 12volt and a single irf510 based design, how much rf power can we get??? 12volt rf? across 50 ohm load, so my calculation goes ???????????????????????? 12v * .707 = 8.484 rms ????????????????????????? rms square = 8.484 * 8.484? = 71.978 ? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? rms square / 50 = 71.978/50 = 1.43watt. ?it seems with the math formula we can get max 1.43 watt from 12volt with single irf. thats why people increase the linear voltage to 24volt . so that they can get rf of around 5.75watt. ???????????? please clarify this. ? arnab/vu2bpw ps - this is the reason i tried irf push pull to get 5watt with 12volt supply voltage. (but failed) ________________________________ From: arv <arvid.evans@...> To: BITX20@... Sent: Thursday, 20 June 2013 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [BITX20] More Power Out From Bitx 20/3? ? Rob I think that it may take more than just increasing voltage to the output MOSFET. If you change the voltage the current will change and impedances involved will change. That would seem to require that the output transformer would then need to be re-designed for the new impedance in order to match the output LPF and antenna impedance. Arv - K7HKL _._ On 06/20/2013 07:43 AM, rob_kay14758 wrote: Bitx is built and seems to be working o.k. on 20M,running on external 13v supply. If i increased the voltage on the pa transistor only to say 25v would we see much of an increase in power? This circuit also looked interesting as an add on..........
Any thoughts.... Thanks Rob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
Re: More Power Out From Bitx 20/3?
Rob
I think that it may take more than just increasing voltage to the output MOSFET. If you change the voltage the current will change and impedances involved will change. That would seem to require that the output transformer would then need to be re-designed for the new impedance in order to match the output LPF and antenna impedance.
Arv - K7HKL _._
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 06/20/2013 07:43 AM, rob_kay14758 wrote: Bitx is built and seems to be working o.k. on 20M,running on external 13v supply. If i increased the voltage on the pa transistor only to say 25v would we see much of an increase in power? This circuit also looked interesting as an add on..........
Any thoughts.... Thanks Rob
|
More Power Out From Bitx 20/3?
Bitx is built and seems to be working o.k. on 20M,running on external 13v supply. If i increased the voltage on the pa transistor only to say 25v would we see much of an increase in power? This circuit also looked interesting as an add on..........
Any thoughts.... Thanks Rob
|
Re: inductor for digital Bitx20a v1.3
That should work just fine.
Have a great day,
--... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy
To: BITX20@... From: kg6wni@... Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 22:09:19 +0000 Subject: [BITX20] inductor for digital Bitx20a v1.3
I'm putting together the frequency counter/digital dial for my Bitx20a
V1.3. In the BOM L1 is 4k7 uhy, the one that came with my kit has 2R7 on it. Is this OK our should I get the right one.
Thanks Leo
kg6wni@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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inductor for digital Bitx20a v1.3
I'm putting together the frequency counter/digital dial for my Bitx20a V1.3. In the BOM L1 is 4k7 uhy, the one that came with my kit has 2R7 on it. Is this OK our should I get the right one. Thanks Leo kg6wni@...
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Re: Advice on using a two-tone oscillator to set up a Hendricks bitx20a
Thanks for reply. I think I will not fit extra resistor then and I'll just drop levels using the pot that is part of oscillator kit. I don't have the resistor fitted in bitx20a, I was trying using a dynamic mike. I have heard received various stations but not yet talked to anyone... I bought/made up a simple 20m dipole a couple of weeks ago and when checked that was resonant on 20m band but I have not yet rigged that up permanently. I will try to make some notes as I use the two-tone test oscillator but that will be later in week now. Dave Price - MW0PRI
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In BITX20@..., arv <arvid.evans@...> wrote: Dave MW0PRI
45 to 50 mv is the best level. If using a signal generator input you will need to disconnect R-92 so that it is not trying to pull your signal generator output to +12 volts.
I don't remember anybody publishing results from using the two-tone method for BITX20A alignment. Others on this group would probably be interested in how you did it, and in how well it worked.
Arv K7HKL _._
On 06/16/2013 02:31 PM, DaveP wrote:
Dear All,
I am still messing with final alignment of my bitx20a. Having read advice, and given I quite like building things, I have just built a simple "tone tone oscillator" kit to help set up the bitx20a. The kit has an "optional" resistor to let me reduce output levels. Without it, the maximum p-p voltage is about 450mv, but I can reduce that lots with a pot on board. They then say I should fit a resistor they supply, it says it will drop maximum output to about 30mv p-p. I have had some troubles getting a mike that will drive the bitx20a properly... What maximum p-p I am best setting on my test oscillator to drive into bitx20a mike socket? Thanks, Dave Price - now MW0PRI (was 2W0DVP). p.s. kit from Walford electronics in uk and generates a mix of about 1590hz and 725hz (or one or other).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Advice on using a two-tone oscillator to set up a Hendricks bitx20a
Dave MW0PRI
45 to 50 mv is the best level. If using a signal generator input you will need to disconnect R-92 so that it is not trying to pull your signal generator output to +12 volts.
I don't remember anybody publishing results from using the two-tone method for BITX20A alignment. Others on this group would probably be interested in how you did it, and in how well it worked.
Arv K7HKL _._
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 06/16/2013 02:31 PM, DaveP wrote: Dear All,
I am still messing with final alignment of my bitx20a. Having read advice, and given I quite like building things, I have just built a simple "tone tone oscillator" kit to help set up the bitx20a. The kit has an "optional" resistor to let me reduce output levels. Without it, the maximum p-p voltage is about 450mv, but I can reduce that lots with a pot on board. They then say I should fit a resistor they supply, it says it will drop maximum output to about 30mv p-p. I have had some troubles getting a mike that will drive the bitx20a properly... What maximum p-p I am best setting on my test oscillator to drive into bitx20a mike socket? Thanks, Dave Price - now MW0PRI (was 2W0DVP). p.s. kit from Walford electronics in uk and generates a mix of about 1590hz and 725hz (or one or other).
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