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Date

Probing the Bitx40 transmit chain

 

I probed a Bitx40 during transmit using a Rigol DS1052 and a 10x probe. ?Probe has a 6" wire to an alligator clip for grounding. ?The loop formed by that ground wire and the probe body is enough to pick up around 20mv of random noise when probing a busy board like this. ?Good enough for casual probing, but you get a much cleaner scope trace when shorting the ground ring at the probe tip to a ground very near the signal you are probing. ?Maybe build a special cover for the probe tip with two spring loaded wires or pins sticking out that allows you to easily probe across a 1206 resistor or cap, where one side of that 1206 is at AC or DC ground. ?I made my measurements quickly, using AC coupling and the convenient 6" ground lead on the probe.?

I got tired of saying AHHHHHHH after about 30 seconds, so spent the following 30 seconds adding a line to the Arduino sketch (anywhere) in the setup() function:

? ? tone(A0, 750);

The Raduino is then emitting a 5v square wave at 750hz on the A0 pin. ?(I prefer listening to 750 hz all day over 1khz.) ?That's the black wire on one end of the 8 pin connector, the other end of that same connector has 3 wires over to the tuning pot. ?I ran the black wire to a 1k resistor and a 20 ohm resistor in series to ground. ?From the top of the 20 ohm resistor to ground (the bottom of the 20 ohm resistor is ground) I now have a 100mv 750hz square wave, which I ran into the microphone input. ?Gives me a consistent signal to measure and make comparisons. ?(That square wave is nowhere clean enough to put CW on the air.) ? Pot R136 is set to mid-range. ?Bias voltage into the IRF510 is set to 100ma as described in the WireUp instructions on HFSigs (though bias is not critical critical, anything within 20ma is fine). ?Most of the probing can be done with the PA 12v disconnected from the rig except when probing around the IRF510.

Haven't yet tried it, but here's an RF probe that those without a scope could use to make similar measurements:

? ??

The cap at the probe tip blocks any DC component of the signal present, so the resistance of the meter will tend to pull any AC component down until it is centered on ground. ?Once that AC waveform is pulled down to where the bottom tips are going below ground, the diode conducts and keeps the AC waveform from going any lower. ?So the top of the diode has an AC waveform sitting between zero volts and whatever the top of that AC waveform is. ?The resistor and cap to ground form a low pass filter so the meter sees an average voltage for that AC waveform. ?The 4.7meg resistor and the 10meg internal resistance of the meter form a resistive divider to divide that average voltage by 1.414, giving a direct reading RMS voltage (assumes we're looking at a sine wave) instead of a peak voltage. ?I'd like to reduce the 4.7meg resistor to less than 1meg (200k?) so this gives consistent peak (not rms) readings with meters having anything between 1meg and 10meg of internal resistance. ?But at 200k there will be several microamps through the diode, and as current goes up the diode becomes less sensitive to small voltages. ?Perhaps use an inductor instead of the 4.7meg resistor? ?Perhaps we all use a Raduino ADC pin as a voltmeter (can be our battery monitor otherwise) so we have a consistent internal resistance on the meter? ?Add a 2n3904 amp for use when looking at low level signals? ?A 1n34 or 1n60 diode is roughly linear down to 200mv, good for repeatable (but not linear) readings down to just a few mv if the diode current is kept low, a shottky is not quite so sensitive but much easier to obtain and less sensitive to temperature. ?The probe on the N5ESE webpage is similar except that it assumes the capacitance inside the meter is part of the low pass filter, which most people writing up RF probe descriptions seem to not be aware of. ?

With all that said, here's my rough and quick AC coupled scope measurements using the 10x probe. ?R136 is set half way, power supply at 12.0v, 50 ohm dummy load. ?Unplug PA 12v except when measuring right at the IRF510 to avoid heating it up. ?My rig can give about 5W to the antenna, not much more. ?That diode RF probe is reading pk voltages, not pk-pk, so will see roughly half these values, even less if the internal meter resistance brings it down to an rms value.

Generate 700hz 5v square wave from A0 on Raduino with this in setup():   "tone(A0, 750);"
mic:  5v*20/1020 = 100mv pk-pk at 700hz    (Drive 5v square wave into 1k + 20 ohms to ground)
c107 200mv pk-pk square, but linearly droops 80mv toward center each half cycle
c63  150mv pk-pk, mostly near ground with 200us long periods of  overshoot/undershoot 
c61  350mv pk-pk, very choppy, mostly 12mhz
c53  150mv pk-pk, 12mhz sine wave
c51  400mv pk-pk, 12mhz, choppy due to loading from mixer
c43  350mv pk-pk, choppy 7mhz
c41  800mv pk-pk, 7mhz sine wave
c132 400mv pk-pk, 7mhz from here on out
c141 1v pk-pk	(R136 at halfway position)
c152 5v pk-pk  (down to a dirty looking 4v pk-pk when 12v to PA turned on due to miller effect)
into LPF  50v pk-pk 
from LPF  40v pk-pk 

Q10 emitter of BFO   4v pk-pk
Q11 base of BFO      300mv pk-pk
Q11 emitter of BFO   800mv pk-pk


The problem I was looking for appears to have been an intermittent solder short under C107. Saw zero ohms to ground at C107, and far side of diodes was nowhere near zero ohms. Assumed a short between windings on T4 and was about to pull it off and rewind it. But found that heating up C107 with a soldering iron cleared the problem. So removed C107, cleaned the pads, and put it back in place.

Jerry, KE7ER


Re: Project box

 

This is the same box but offered, through Amazon, by Uxcell. ?The price on Amazon was $18.99 with free shipping (got it in 2 days) as I am a PRIME member. ?BangGood lists it at $19.90 with free shipping and 7-12 day delivery. ?So, I saved $0.91 and got it quicker.


Re: L1 Question and Low output power

Jason N3YUG
 

Thanks Jerry, I figured it was a the problem.? I will try to get the original back on, or count the windings on it and match the L4 coil to it.

Jason


HELP kinda concerned

 

Ordered my bitx40 and waiting for it to ship to the US. I've been reading the forum here and I'm getting kinda concerned if my rig will work OK out of the box. Did I just buy a possible big a boo? Kinda difficult to tell if the issues folks are having are from the get go or after some experimentation.

Really excited to get this rig, but don't want to have to fiddle too much to just get it working. Thoughts?

73

Tim KM4WII


Re: No uploads - support replied

 

Hans & Ashar:
The rig I'm working on was a gift from my XYL, but I can surely afford a few dollars to preserve the group. Please let us know how we can help. I will be happy to pay to continue to receive this kind of support, learn some fun new stuff, and maybe make a few new friends.
Thanks very much,
Craig
w9ctw

" . . . Hans and Ashar have been rather quiet on this subject . . . when they have worked out . . . we will hear about those options at that time."


Re: Current limit for PA

 

Very informative

On Feb 26, 2017 8:49 AM, <ajp166@...> wrote:

Current limiter: ?should not be needed save for running on bench supply.? If used put it in the radio and set it to about 2.5A.? For 8W out at 13.8V your current should never be close to that.? The amp is about 40% efficient and for 6W out your doing max 16W input power ( less than 2A at 13.8V) in and the difference is in the form of heat.? I try to not use one as they tend to limit on voice peaks and the audio suffers badly.

My experience with IRF510s is extensive and much different.? I rarely kill one even during experimenting.

I use them for RF power though 6M.? How much 8 in a parallel 4x4 push-pull at 6M running 225W!? My favorite is two in a push pull amp (K500r/wa2eby design) with 28V running about 55W on 40m and 37W at 10M and after 6 years of wrong antenna and all sorts of usual havoc its still running with the same pair.? The two device amp uses a heatsink with 4x6 inches of surface and fins nearly an inch tall.? This is a sample of two amp I've used for a while and I have others.

Many things kill the IRF510.? Heat, the usual heat sink seen is not big enough. Bad construction causing instability.? Excessive voltage its a 100V device but if the combined DC+RF exceeds that its gone.? The last one is sneaky that is far to much gate voltage. Exceed 20V and the get punches through and the part goes away.? How can that happen put 30V on the drain and usse a gate drive that is not sufficiently stiff and low enough in impedance and the RF voltage coupled back by the ?Gate to Drain capacitance will finish it off fast!


IRF510 data:

The part is rated 100V max and 5.6A max but only as a low speed saturated switch.? The power limit is 43W dissipation but that is on a large heatsink with derating for heating.? The derating is .29W for every degree centigrade above 25C for the DIE temperature the case will be cooler than that due to thermal resistance. The TO220 package has terrible thermal properties so if its heating the heatsink to 50C the die inside is near its failure point. ?


Several things:

If the heatsink gets more than just warm its too small or insufficient airflow.

Bias, there is a right value and if high the heatsink better be good!? Also the bias set the gain to a point so if the amp is unstable at 100ma look at layout or wiring.

The transformer is not 4:1 its 1:4 the drain to get in the 5-8W region at 12V needs to be at about 12.5 Ohms impedance not 200 (under a watt possible)!? The transformer matches the Drain to the design load 12 or so ohms to the load of of 50 ohms.? The low pass filter is symmetrical is there for harmonic cleanup but a few I've see use asymmetric values to translate from less than 50 ohsm to 50 ohm as well. ? ?This also means if the antenna is poor and the load impedance is lower than 50 ohms the reflected impedance to the IRF510 is even lower and the power it will try to generate will be higher but if the cooling is not adequate it may die!

The impedance at the gate is not a high impedance as that only occurs at DC, for RF its roughly the gate capacitance to ground plus lead inductance.? That means way less than 150 Ohms is typical even at 40M.? If the source is not stiff impedance wise then instability due to Gate to Drain capacitance is probable. ?

Long leads. Just don't.? Especially the Source lead. ? My favorite layout is very short source to ground (near the case) cut the drain lead and use the tab with the part flat on a heatsink.? The inptu on one side of the part and the IRF510 between the long way and the output on the other.? Works even at 6M.?

Resistance in the source lead. works at DC but at RF it tends to result in the source elevated above ground (even with a capacitor) make the stability at RF poor. It can make a fine power oscillator. ?

As the device is very capable of high gain keep the input as far as possible from the output.? Typical gain biased as AB1 linear amp is better than 13DB at 50mhz!

Bipolar such as the 2n1969 cannot sub direct as the bias circuit needs to be much different for good thermal and RF stability as well as acceptable linearity. Its a good part but apples and mangos.


RF power fets like the RD or MRF parts have the same or very similar constraints.? Input and output impedance needs to be controlled by the surrounding circuits.

--
Allison/KB1GMX


Re: L1 Question and Low output power

 

L1 is part of the 7mhz bandpass filter, used during both transmit and receive, though trouble here will be more noticeable during transmit. ? L1 has the same number of turns as L2, L3. ?Reuse the old core if it is not broken. ?L4 is totally different, meant to be used in the 12mhz analog VFO if you don't want to use the Raduino.?


On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 06:09 am, Jason N3YUG wrote:

My BITX40V3 was putting out between 7-10 watts at 13.8V input power.? Everything was working fine, and I took my kit to my radio club meeting to show others last week.? Yesterday I turned it on for the first time since then, and had no power output.? I looked at L1 which had a broken lead on arrival when I got the board.? It had broke loose again.? The kit came with a spare toroid, I removed the old L1, and installed the spare one in the kit.? I know get 2 watts output at 13.8V.? How many wraps is L1 supposed to have, and could this be my issue, or is there something else going wrong.? I looked in the files section, for the document that used to be in there with several mods and troubleshooting tips, but can't find it anymore.?

?


Re: Bitx40 from Chile

philip yates
 

.15 with Raduino connected, and .07 without it.

Just thought it maybe an idea to see what range we get, depends on the accuracy of our meters as well.

Phil-G7BZD


Re: Getting stuck

 

Thanks Armin. That worked.


Re: Bitx40 from Chile

 

Mine is drawing 0.18A at 13.8V when in RX and 1.2A at 13.8V when in TX.

Remove the power from the PA amplifier and check the current again.

You do not need to have the PA powered when in RX.
--
Ion

VA3NOI


Re: L1 Question and Low output power

Jason N3YUG
 

BTW, I did check a few other things last night.? I switched mic elements and no improvement.? I checked power to board, and to the PA at the two pin connectors.(13.8V there).


L1 Question and Low output power

Jason N3YUG
 

My BITX40V3 was putting out between 7-10 watts at 13.8V input power.? Everything was working fine, and I took my kit to my radio club meeting to show others last week.? Yesterday I turned it on for the first time since then, and had no power output.? I looked at L1 which had a broken lead on arrival when I got the board.? It had broke loose again.? The kit came with a spare toroid, I removed the old L1, and installed the spare one in the kit.? I know get 2 watts output at 13.8V.? How many wraps is L1 supposed to have, and could this be my issue, or is there something else going wrong.? I looked in the files section, for the document that used to be in there with several mods and troubleshooting tips, but can't find it anymore.?


Any help?


Jason

N3YUG


Re: Project box

Buck
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Was it cheaper/better on amazon? ?How is the size?



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note? 4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Dennis Zabawa <kg4rul@...>
Date: 2/27/17 21:11 (GMT-05:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BITX20] Project box

I have one of those, bought through Amazon, that I am working with. ?I had custom front and back panels made by . ?They have a free, downloadable design program that is easy to use and their prices and delivery are great. ?I will post pix of the completed unit at a later time.

Dennis KG4RUL


Re: Bitx40 from Chile

 

Miguel,

Thats a bit high for Rx mode.

Swtich on for a few minutes and check the board for warm/hot components to get the next trouble shooting clue!
At 0.98 thats almost 12 watts of heat, you will find it easily!

73, Raj vu2zap.

At 28-02-2017, you wrote:
Hi, i am from Chile CE3MSB, receive past week my Bitx40, yesterday assemble the kit, and start with RX some, but i see that the RX current drawn its 0.98 Amps, i consider that too high, its usual?,what are the current drawn in RX and TX? and the max and min Voltaje to use?
73??s

Miguel Villamor
CE3MSB
Chile


Re: No uploads - support replied

Graham
 

DropBox, Google Drive, Sync.com are work very well but they too have
their "free" limits.

They are all a little different but they do limit to one degree or
another volume, uploads, downloads (etc) to or from and have a cap for
their "free" services. Once you reach that cap you will have to wait a
while in order to access again. I have even heard about real abusers
having their "free" accounts terminated but that seems to rare.

A group this size could hit that "cap" pretty quickly.

There is no free ride. A service such as this is either supported through
the sale of advertising or some other mechanism to "pay it's way".

Hans and Ashar have been rather quiet on this subject. I will take that
as to mean that they are working on it will when they have worked out
several ways forward then we will hear about those options at that time.


cheers, Graham ve3gtc


On 2/28/2017, "John Smith via Groups.Io"
<johnlinux77@...> wrote:

I made that suggestion, and asked you think about how to make it work before shooting it down. And I am glad you did!

I looked in the subscription tab and found the member integration button, and found two options. Dropbox, and Google Drive. If you can put an up front message for new members, and a reminder for the not new members to to attach files from your own storage account. And move this group files to a BITX Dropbox or something, that would be great. The only sticky bit I see is broken links in the future after people delete files, or close the account.

So, is that how it would work? I haven't setup the integration, so I don't know how it works yet. But I soon will.


Re: Project box

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Dennis,
Thanks for reminding us of Front Panel Express. ?

I had seen their ads but ignored them as too costly for my budget. ?Now I see that price depends on many variables, but what's really cool is their layout software's quick price check. ?

I'm on my second attempt to drill, nibble, and file a front panel for an HFSigs BitX enclosure and will finish it if only because I've sunk so much - contented, actually- time into it. ?Maybe I'll give Front Panel Express a try for the next box. ?
Happy tinkering to you. ?
Regards,
Craig
w9ctw


Bitx40 from Chile

 

Hi, i am from Chile CE3MSB, receive past week my Bitx40, yesterday assemble the kit, and start with RX some, but i see that the RX current drawn its 0.98 Amps, i consider that too high, its usual?,what are the current drawn in RX and TX? and the max and min Voltaje to use?
73?s

Miguel Villamor
CE3MSB
Chile


Re: New file uploaded to [email protected]

Jack Purdum
 

My bad...I read the emails out of order.

Jack, W8TEE



From: Jack Purdum via Groups.Io <econjack@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: [BITX20] New file uploaded to [email protected]

Where is the schematic for Ion's speech processor?

Jack, W8TEE



From: "[email protected] Notification" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 8:06 AM
Subject: [BITX20] New file uploaded to [email protected]

Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.
File: SpeachProc_V1_TopCopper.pdf
Uploaded By: Ion Petroianu
Description:
Cheers,
The Groups.io Team





Re: New file uploaded to [email protected]

Jack Purdum
 

Where is the schematic for Ion's speech processor?

Jack, W8TEE



From: "[email protected] Notification" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 8:06 AM
Subject: [BITX20] New file uploaded to [email protected]

Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.
File: SpeachProc_V1_TopCopper.pdf
Uploaded By: Ion Petroianu
Description:
Cheers,
The Groups.io Team



Re: No uploads - support replied

Jack Purdum
 

All:

I'm not a big believer in a free lunch. There are two theories of taxation: 1) Ability to Pay, and 2) Benefits Received. The first is the basis for our Federal income taxes. The second is basis for something like the gasoline taxes. In this case, membership to the group requires paying a small fee (i.e., the tax) to secure the benefits of membership. I find it hard to believe that there is anyone buying ham radio equipment who can't afford $1, so I think AtP is covered. I think it's obvious that being a member has benefits to the member otherwise they wouldn't waste their time on the site, so BR is also covered.

A membership fee is more difficult to manage, but not that much so. I know the mechanism Yahoo used for a restricted membership site because I use it for my own user group (e.g., SoftwareControlledHamRadio). Stating on the introduction page that membership requires an annual $1 fee isn't going to dissuade too many members...perhaps a few tire kickers, but not many. I have no problem with Admin taking a fee for managing the site.

I think every member should pay the fee. It not only solves the storage issues, it will help limit the membership to those who are actually interested in the BITX40.

Jack, W8TEE


From: Todd K7TFC <k7tfc@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 1:49 AM
Subject: Re: [BITX20] No uploads - support replied

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 07:37 am, Jerry KE7ER wrote:
I'm perfectly fine with $1/yr, but that sort of thing will be tough to manage. ?Exactly who should pay? Anyone who uses the site. Casual browsers interested in the Bitx? Yes, or give a 24 hour "browse free" ticket.
An apt model for funding something like this would be PBS and NPR (American public-broadcasting organizations). The content is there for anyone who accesses it. There will be people who contribute and those who don't. Will there be "free riders"? Yes, there always are, but that is beside the point.
On the Internet--YouTube in particular--services such as Patreon provide a way to pay at least some of the costs of producing web content. A percentage of the individuals who like the content contribute whatever they want, and that's enough.
In our case, this year we need $120USD. If 4% of those subscribed to this group contributed $1, the problem would be solved. We wouldn't have to wring our hands in despair because we can't decide if we want files, photos, or attachments, in the mistaken belief we can't have them all.
73,
Todd