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I have been fortunate at times to have garnered insights from this group. I am now again hoping to get some guidance once more, in my quest to assist my teenage son.
We are fixing up our home, something my son is very excited about.?We are building terraces to continue to grow our fruit trees, our veggies and our grape vines. We will have a plan of how to proceed, and then he will do the complete opposite. These are not just wants as much as they are things to insure structural integrity.
A different example is. I have asked him not to throw food bags off the balcony. The reason is that it attracts ants and rodents. (I have offered to gladly take the bags down? if he doesn't want to.) He agrees. Then the next time,? he throws it over the railing. He will then? first say my ideas are always ridiculous, then he will say he is sorry, and? will next time put it in the trash can. Then the next time, he throws it over once more.
I want to continue to encourage him to think and figure? things out.?The problem is me...is there any room for my thoughts regarding our home? How do i reconcile these two things?
Thank you for any ideas you can proffer to help me. I am most appreciative.
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-=-in my quest to assist my teenage son.-=-
"Assist" could be rephrased.? I think?you want to mold or control or persuade him.? That's understandable and can't be avoided. :-)
If you phrase it as "assist" (even in your thoughts), your thinking might not be as clear.
-=-We are fixing up our home, something my son is very excited about.?We are building terraces to continue to grow our fruit trees, our veggies and our grape vines. We will have a plan of how to proceed, and then he will do the complete opposite.-=-
If you are the only two there, and if he is the one physically building terraces, then the confusing term in thoughts might be "we."? I have a page about times when a mom using "we" has been a problem.? I'm not sure it applies here (and you don't need to tell us anything more), but it might be worth a look and some consideration, in the background.
It's true that I've encouraged people to be their children's partner, from infancy, to help then get what they need, to be aware of their feelings and sensibilities, so it's not a recommendation to separate from the child, but a reminder that "we" sometimes means "I".??
So IF you have a plan and you know more about what could cause the terraces to collapse later, maybe it wasn't communicated well, or maybe he's unconvinced or young and inexperienced, but still wants to do it his way.? ? ?Consider how much "damage" or harm might be done by a wall failure.? He would learn more (in a better way) from seeing his wall start to leak or collapse or whatever you're worried about.? And what if it doesn't?? His plan might work for years and years.??
How much damage or harm could come of arguing and nagging?
If he's working without you right there, that might be something to avoid, if your vision is the only right way.
Sandra
On Thu, Aug 18, 2022 at 10:28 AM M Person via <mypersonalmessages1= [email protected]> wrote: I have been fortunate at times to have garnered insights from this group. I am now again hoping to get some guidance once more, in my quest to assist my teenage son.
We are fixing up our home, something my son is very excited about.?We are building terraces to continue to grow our fruit trees, our veggies and our grape vines. We will have a plan of how to proceed, and then he will do the complete opposite. These are not just wants as much as they are things to insure structural integrity.
A different example is. I have asked him not to throw food bags off the balcony. The reason is that it attracts ants and rodents. (I have offered to gladly take the bags down? if he doesn't want to.) He agrees. Then the next time,? he throws it over the railing. He will then? first say my ideas are always ridiculous, then he will say he is sorry, and? will next time put it in the trash can. Then the next time, he throws it over once more.
I want to continue to encourage him to think and figure? things out.?The problem is me...is there any room for my thoughts regarding our home? How do i reconcile these two things?
Thank you for any ideas you can proffer to help me. I am most appreciative.
|
-=-A different example is. I have asked him not to throw food bags off the balcony. The reason is that it attracts ants and rodents. (I have offered to gladly take the bags down? if he doesn't want to.) He agrees. Then the next time,? he throws it over the railing. He will then? first say my ideas are always ridiculous, then he will say he is sorry, and? will next time put it in the trash can. Then the next time, he throws it over once more.-=-
Maybe there shouldn't BE food bags.? ?I'm guessing you mean fast-food bags from drive-throughs; if not, never mind.??
A trash can with a lid, with a plastic liner, ON the balcony, might be a perfect place for such things.? Rodents and ants would find it harder to get up on a balcony.? But then probably you, the mom, should?take those bags out and tie them off and either take them to the collection?bin, or ask him to (when it's convenient,? not the moment you tie it off).??
Think more about your relationship first, and then the realities of ants and rodents.? THEN "the rules."? Go with principles over rules.
If you think of principles first and stop making rules, that will help,.
Think of learning first and try not to be controlling.
If he hasn't seen ants or rodents come to food, in his life, yet, maybe you're wrong, or maybe he doesn't have any personal experience to tie in with what you're pressing/demanding him to do.? That's true of most things as kids are growing up.? Moms have known of kids getting hurt, or of dogs biting, or of water staining tables, or whatever, but the kid probably has not, yet.
I think this page will help you be calmer and clearer.? ?It's a collection of stories and experiences about how "control" can be harmful and should be avoided.? ?There are other ways,
Your relationship should be primary, and nagging hasn't ever led to better relationships in any situation. :-)
While you're thinking about how to proceed, find positive things to see in him, and to comment on.? You're frustrated with him, and he's in a stage of of his life where he naturally will be separating from you, so tread gentlyl
On Thu, Aug 18, 2022 at 10:28 AM M Person via <mypersonalmessages1= [email protected]> wrote: I have been fortunate at times to have garnered insights from this group. I am now again hoping to get some guidance once more, in my quest to assist my teenage son.
We are fixing up our home, something my son is very excited about.?We are building terraces to continue to grow our fruit trees, our veggies and our grape vines. We will have a plan of how to proceed, and then he will do the complete opposite. These are not just wants as much as they are things to insure structural integrity.
A different example is. I have asked him not to throw food bags off the balcony. The reason is that it attracts ants and rodents. (I have offered to gladly take the bags down? if he doesn't want to.) He agrees. Then the next time,? he throws it over the railing. He will then? first say my ideas are always ridiculous, then he will say he is sorry, and? will next time put it in the trash can. Then the next time, he throws it over once more.
I want to continue to encourage him to think and figure? things out.?The problem is me...is there any room for my thoughts regarding our home? How do i reconcile these two things?
Thank you for any ideas you can proffer to help me. I am most appreciative.
|
On Thu, Aug 18, 2022 at 09:28 AM, M Person wrote:
I want to continue to encourage him to think and figure? things out.?
-=-I want to continue to encourage him to think and figure? things out. -=-
?
You don't need to encourage him to think.? He's doing it all the time, for being human.
I had a thought about mice and ants, too.? Sometimes I've seen situations in which a mom grew up in a place where there were certain realities FOR SURE concerning plants and animals (large or small, from mold to alligators), but moved to a different place where some of their lifelong "truths" and facts aren't really applicable.? People who move from very humid places and come to New Mexico have expressed odd concerns and worries that don't apply here. :-)? Partly, mold and alligators.? ?Rust, if a metal container isn't quickly drained.? Mildew, if a washing machine load sits for an hour or two.??
Thinking and figuring things out is important for the parents.? The children are doing it for the first time, in most cases, but the parents have years of trial and error and reality. :-)
Similarly with terracing.? Realities about the type of soil, and the effects and amount of rain, and whether those tree roots are going to go deep to natural water (if you're where the water table is fairly close to the surface) or whether they're going to be closer to the surface....? ?I don't know.? You might not know.? Your teenaged son probably doesn't. :-)? Go easy on all of it, and maybe have a Plan B to repair walls that start to fail.? You might never need Plan B.
?
Sandra
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M Person the original poster sent this, in some side correspondence, for further help.? If anyone reading has ideas,? please respond!
______________________________________
?
?I am very concerned that? **I am adversely affecting the once healthy relationship my son and I have had. ( I state that well aware that he is and is continuing to develop into his own special individual, separate from the "us")---
?
?
Based on my own thoughts and reading yours, i respond to my son by being energetic and positive of his wants and his ideas. The "however" is that he does not respond in kind.? ---
?
I can share examples, but please know these exchanges are not isolated incidents, literally quite the opposite.---
?
We are weeding and cutting away dead branches and cleaning around our fruit trees. (As an aside, I am noting that you had mentioned to me about the incorrect use of "we"? and i am stating "we" and "our" , thinking it is accurate...your thoughts, if you do not mind?)---
?
Before my son and I go outside, we discuss why the non fruit? trees are there and the purpose they serve because of erosion concerns. We agree that soon we can take them out like he wants and replace with fruit trees. He and I agree and then he? asks if he can trim one...but he then proceeds to cut the whole tree.(without even informing me, much less considering the concerns) This has occurred more than once, my son explaining that either he forgot or he thinks it looks better without the tree.---
?
One other example..My son and i have volunteered and worked at a farmers market...this includes unloading the truck, setting up, selling, packing up, and loading. As my son had gotten older, he and I? really enjoy seeing how strong and capable he is. He likes seeing how much he can load and unload---
?
?
Two weeks ago,? I had a customer who wanted to see more peaches, even though we had alot out.. I asked my son if he could get another tub from the truck. He told me no, because he does not like it when i am "too nice" to? customers.---
?
Later, we discussed this. One of the points I made was specific to me...It was important to me, and I would appreciate? his cooperation sometimes.? He said that since I always say yes to him, he could think of it as doing something that i wanted. And as he often says..." I promise next time I will"---
?
?
Ironically, the next week something very similar happened, and this time in front of the customer, he refused to get a tub from the truck. I asked him later about his promise, and he said. ."I didn't know you were going to do the same ridiculous thing again"---
?
?
A few points...
?
*There is alot of work to do around the house, and he and i have a plan. However, it has been challenging to move forward, because if I have an opinion or something i want to offer, he becomes upset and basically just proceeds doing it as he wants. My reactions have been to ask him to stop so we can look at our options or to have to tell him to stop or to walk away. None of them are ideal.?
?
*My son really wants to fix up the house. He wants us to have a 4th of July party next year, so that has been our goal. Yet, it is challenging to go forward when if i? offer a thought or wish, my son gets angry, says how stupid it would be, or agrees and then changes his mind without communicating that.
?
*He wants us to work together. He likes us to do things together. (Of course, that means we listen to the radio station he wants, we go where he wants, we do it the way he wants)
?
*He wants to especially because he wants us to keep working on the house, and i have explained that it is not a good idea/we can not continue? to work on the house when we cannot find a way to cooperate.)??
?
He will feel upset later,? and??he says that he does not mean what he says when he is mad, and when we talk about it, he says he does not know why he acts the way he does.?
?
Sandra, i recognize how verbose this is, so please allow me to try to succinctly state my problem...in my opinion, my son and I are only in agreement when it is something he wants or thinks. When it is something i am saying, he disagrees and argues that it doesn't make any sense.?
-------------end of the quote from M Person
?
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Teenagers seem to need to assert their place in the World.? Sometimes that looks like rejection to parents.? It's not.? Remembering that helped me navigate those couple of trickier years when Ethan seemed to need to contradict almost everything I said or did.? Instead of seeing it as him rejecting me or my ideas, I came to see our?interactions as an opportunity to support him learning to assert himself with someone he trusted.? Who better to do that with?? What did that look like?
When he made an argument for something, if I could, I incorporated his ideas into whatever the plan was, even when I didn't agree with it.? If it didn't hurt anything, I did my best to make it work.? If it didn't work out, I didn't say, "I told you so."? I let him come to his own conclusions, which he normally did with humility and a greater understanding of whatever it was.
When he argued with me, I learned to see it not so much as conflict, but as an opportunity for him to make his point heard.? I wrote about that here:
I admit it was hard for me, but I gave him space.? I recognized that he was growing up and he needed to redefine his relationship with me.? I made room for him to do that.? I trusted that he would find something that worked well for him.? I trusted that I could make it work well for me too.? I have often said that I believe reincarnation is for the living.? I, personally, have lived many lives within this one life I've been given.? I've been so fortunate to have had the freedom to grow and change and be who I needed to be at each stage of my life.? Some of the Me's I've liked better than others.? ;)? I've learned a little something from each one.? I look forward to meeting more.
Our kids need room to explore who they are in each phase of their lives too.? More and more, as the years pass, we come to understand that they are very much their?own people.? When we see them and support them all along the way, they grow with confidence and with a clearer sense of where they want to go next.? That we get to play such an influential role in that growth is a true privilege and gift.? I find it helps to remember that too.
What do you want your son to remember about this time in his life?? Maybe a failed wall will nurture?a brilliant engineer.? Maybe a poorly trimmed tree will aid in the learning of a budding botanist.? Maybe a healthy, fruitful debate with the person most important in his life will foster a caring, compassionate husband/father/friend years down the road. Keep your vision on the horizon.? Sometimes it helps to think about where you want to go, when you are trying to navigate where you are in any?moment.
Oh, and I agree with Sandra!? Put a lidded bin on the balcony for him.? It won't last forever.? You can remove it when he's gone.? Make it easier for him to succeed when you can.
Karen James??
On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 11:48 AM Sandra Dodd < aelflaed@...> wrote: M Person the original poster sent this, in some side correspondence, for further help.? If anyone reading has ideas,? please respond!
______________________________________
?
?I am very concerned that? **I am adversely affecting the once healthy relationship my son and I have had. ( I state that well aware that he is and is continuing to develop into his own special individual, separate from the "us")---
?
?
Based on my own thoughts and reading yours, i respond to my son by being energetic and positive of his wants and his ideas. The "however" is that he does not respond in kind.? ---
?
I can share examples, but please know these exchanges are not isolated incidents, literally quite the opposite.---
?
We are weeding and cutting away dead branches and cleaning around our fruit trees. (As an aside, I am noting that you had mentioned to me about the incorrect use of "we"? and i am stating "we" and "our" , thinking it is accurate...your thoughts, if you do not mind?)---
?
Before my son and I go outside, we discuss why the non fruit? trees are there and the purpose they serve because of erosion concerns. We agree that soon we can take them out like he wants and replace with fruit trees. He and I agree and then he? asks if he can trim one...but he then proceeds to cut the whole tree.(without even informing me, much less considering the concerns) This has occurred more than once, my son explaining that either he forgot or he thinks it looks better without the tree.---
?
One other example..My son and i have volunteered and worked at a farmers market...this includes unloading the truck, setting up, selling, packing up, and loading. As my son had gotten older, he and I? really enjoy seeing how strong and capable he is. He likes seeing how much he can load and unload---
?
?
Two weeks ago,? I had a customer who wanted to see more peaches, even though we had alot out.. I asked my son if he could get another tub from the truck. He told me no, because he does not like it when i am "too nice" to? customers.---
?
Later, we discussed this. One of the points I made was specific to me...It was important to me, and I would appreciate? his cooperation sometimes.? He said that since I always say yes to him, he could think of it as doing something that i wanted. And as he often says..." I promise next time I will"---
?
?
Ironically, the next week something very similar happened, and this time in front of the customer, he refused to get a tub from the truck. I asked him later about his promise, and he said. ."I didn't know you were going to do the same ridiculous thing again"---
?
?
A few points...
?
*There is alot of work to do around the house, and he and i have a plan. However, it has been challenging to move forward, because if I have an opinion or something i want to offer, he becomes upset and basically just proceeds doing it as he wants. My reactions have been to ask him to stop so we can look at our options or to have to tell him to stop or to walk away. None of them are ideal.?
?
*My son really wants to fix up the house. He wants us to have a 4th of July party next year, so that has been our goal. Yet, it is challenging to go forward when if i? offer a thought or wish, my son gets angry, says how stupid it would be, or agrees and then changes his mind without communicating that.
?
*He wants us to work together. He likes us to do things together. (Of course, that means we listen to the radio station he wants, we go where he wants, we do it the way he wants)
?
*He wants to especially because he wants us to keep working on the house, and i have explained that it is not a good idea/we can not continue? to work on the house when we cannot find a way to cooperate.)??
?
He will feel upset later,? and??he says that he does not mean what he says when he is mad, and when we talk about it, he says he does not know why he acts the way he does.?
?
Sandra, i recognize how verbose this is, so please allow me to try to succinctly state my problem...in my opinion, my son and I are only in agreement when it is something he wants or thinks. When it is something i am saying, he disagrees and argues that it doesn't make any sense.?
-------------end of the quote from M Person
?
|
I read with interest your response and the link you sent. I certainly can relate to the road Ethan and you traversed.
With all my words, perhaps i have not been clear. My son has had ideas for many years, and i have followed him, supported him, listened, and if needed, help him implement these desires and ideas.
The problem that i am looking for guidance with is the opposite. When I (as well as others)? have an idea or a suggestion, my son gets angry and says its ridiculous, or he will agree, and then do the opposite.
Thus, the tree incident ..he said we should go trim it, and i agreed.?
So, it is not? about him trimming the tree, but it is about the discussion beforehand that we have been advised not to cut it completely,? because we need it due to erosion. He reiterated that he just wanted it trimmed, but he then goes and cuts it completely down. He either then gets angry and says it was a ridiculous idea, or he will say he does not know why he did that, and then he genuinely feels badly.
And on the garbage and the rats, he gets angry when i ask him to consider my concern and? come up with a solution. He will either says "Oh, it won't happen" (but he knows it has happened before) or he says he will take it down. When he does not, he says it is ridiculous, or he again does not know why he did that. He then feels badly and says he does not know why he? didn't do that.
What can i do differently so he can consider an idea that did not originate with him once in a while???
Thank you for expending ypur valuable time to listen and respond. I am most appreciative.
On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 4:09 PM, Karen James <semajrak@...> wrote: Teenagers seem to need to assert their place in the World.? Sometimes that looks like rejection to parents.? It's not.? Remembering that helped me navigate those couple of trickier years when Ethan seemed to need to contradict almost everything I said or did.? Instead of seeing it as him rejecting me or my ideas, I came to see our?interactions as an opportunity to support him learning to assert himself with someone he trusted.? Who better to do that with?? What did that look like?
When he made an argument for something, if I could, I incorporated his ideas into whatever the plan was, even when I didn't agree with it.? If it didn't hurt anything, I did my best to make it work.? If it didn't work out, I didn't say, "I told you so."? I let him come to his own conclusions, which he normally did with humility and a greater understanding of whatever it was.
When he argued with me, I learned to see it not so much as conflict, but as an opportunity for him to make his point heard.? I wrote about that here:
I admit it was hard for me, but I gave him space.? I recognized that he was growing up and he needed to redefine his relationship with me.? I made room for him to do that.? I trusted that he would find something that worked well for him.? I trusted that I could make it work well for me too.? I have often said that I believe reincarnation is for the living.? I, personally, have lived many lives within this one life I've been given.? I've been so fortunate to have had the freedom to grow and change and be who I needed to be at each stage of my life.? Some of the Me's I've liked better than others.? ;)? I've learned a little something from each one.? I look forward to meeting more.
Our kids need room to explore who they are in each phase of their lives too.? More and more, as the years pass, we come to understand that they are very much their?own people.? When we see them and support them all along the way, they grow with confidence and with a clearer sense of where they want to go next.? That we get to play such an influential role in that growth is a true privilege and gift.? I find it helps to remember that too.
What do you want your son to remember about this time in his life?? Maybe a failed wall will nurture?a brilliant engineer.? Maybe a poorly trimmed tree will aid in the learning of a budding botanist.? Maybe a healthy, fruitful debate with the person most important in his life will foster a caring, compassionate husband/father/friend years down the road. Keep your vision on the horizon.? Sometimes it helps to think about where you want to go, when you are trying to navigate where you are in any?moment.
Oh, and I agree with Sandra!? Put a lidded bin on the balcony for him.? It won't last forever.? You can remove it when he's gone.? Make it easier for him to succeed when you can.
Karen James?? On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 11:48 AM Sandra Dodd < aelflaed@...> wrote: M Person the original poster sent this, in some side correspondence, for further help.? If anyone reading has ideas,? please respond!
______________________________________
?
?I am very concerned that? **I am adversely affecting the once healthy relationship my son and I have had. ( I state that well aware that he is and is continuing to develop into his own special individual, separate from the "us")---
?
?
Based on my own thoughts and reading yours, i respond to my son by being energetic and positive of his wants and his ideas. The "however" is that he does not respond in kind.? ---
?
I can share examples, but please know these exchanges are not isolated incidents, literally quite the opposite.---
?
We are weeding and cutting away dead branches and cleaning around our fruit trees. (As an aside, I am noting that you had mentioned to me about the incorrect use of "we"? and i am stating "we" and "our" , thinking it is accurate...your thoughts, if you do not mind?)---
?
Before my son and I go outside, we discuss why the non fruit? trees are there and the purpose they serve because of erosion concerns. We agree that soon we can take them out like he wants and replace with fruit trees. He and I agree and then he? asks if he can trim one...but he then proceeds to cut the whole tree.(without even informing me, much less considering the concerns) This has occurred more than once, my son explaining that either he forgot or he thinks it looks better without the tree.---
?
One other example..My son and i have volunteered and worked at a farmers market...this includes unloading the truck, setting up, selling, packing up, and loading. As my son had gotten older, he and I? really enjoy seeing how strong and capable he is. He likes seeing how much he can load and unload---
?
?
Two weeks ago,? I had a customer who wanted to see more peaches, even though we had alot out.. I asked my son if he could get another tub from the truck. He told me no, because he does not like it when i am "too nice" to? customers.---
?
Later, we discussed this. One of the points I made was specific to me...It was important to me, and I would appreciate? his cooperation sometimes.? He said that since I always say yes to him, he could think of it as doing something that i wanted. And as he often says..." I promise next time I will"---
?
?
Ironically, the next week something very similar happened, and this time in front of the customer, he refused to get a tub from the truck. I asked him later about his promise, and he said. ."I didn't know you were going to do the same ridiculous thing again"---
?
?
A few points...
?
*There is alot of work to do around the house, and he and i have a plan. However, it has been challenging to move forward, because if I have an opinion or something i want to offer, he becomes upset and basically just proceeds doing it as he wants. My reactions have been to ask him to stop so we can look at our options or to have to tell him to stop or to walk away. None of them are ideal.?
?
*My son really wants to fix up the house. He wants us to have a 4th of July party next year, so that has been our goal. Yet, it is challenging to go forward when if i? offer a thought or wish, my son gets angry, says how stupid it would be, or agrees and then changes his mind without communicating that.
?
*He wants us to work together. He likes us to do things together. (Of course, that means we listen to the radio station he wants, we go where he wants, we do it the way he wants)
?
*He wants to especially because he wants us to keep working on the house, and i have explained that it is not a good idea/we can not continue? to work on the house when we cannot find a way to cooperate.)??
?
He will feel upset later,? and??he says that he does not mean what he says when he is mad, and when we talk about it, he says he does not know why he acts the way he does.?
?
Sandra, i recognize how verbose this is, so please allow me to try to succinctly state my problem...in my opinion, my son and I are only in agreement when it is something he wants or thinks. When it is something i am saying, he disagrees and argues that it doesn't make any sense.?
-------------end of the quote from M Person
?
|
***When I (as well as others)? have an idea or a suggestion, my son gets angry and says its ridiculous, or he will agree, and then do the opposite.*** Maybe don't make so many suggestions.??
***Thus, the tree incident
..he said we should go trim it, and i agreed.***
Maybe don't agree to let him do things that might have consequences that you can't live with.? If this was me, and it was important to me that the tree be trimmed in a certain way, I would say something like, "I want to make sure it's trimmed well.? We need that tree for erosion.? I think I'll hire an arborist."? Or something like that.? If there are things *you* want done a certain way, do them yourself.? Don't pretend to let him have choices when there really are none.? That would be frustrating for a lot of people.
***And on the garbage and the rats, he gets angry when i ask him to consider my concern and? come up with a solution.***
?
Don't ask him to consider anything.? Do something to help *yourself* feel more comfortable with the situation.? Put a tight fitting lidded garbage bin out there, and let him know to put the garbage in there.??
***He then feels badly and says he does not know why he? didn't do that.***
?
He didn't do it because it wasn't important to him.? It's not the end of the world.? Again, help him make putting the garbage somewhere an easier task.? Or take it out yourself when you see it getting full, so that he doesn't need to worry about it.? Take it out when it's half-full.? Shame is not healthy, especially about something so simple.
***What can i do differently so he can consider an idea that did not originate with him once in a while?*** ?
You can't make anyone consider anything.? That's out of your control.? The?ideas that he choses consider or not consider are entirely up to him.??
?
Don't give him choices when there aren't any.? If *you* want something done a certain way, do it yourself.? It could?be that he feels frustrated because he feels a bit manipulated.? Teenagers are sensitive to that.? If you are leading him to believe that he has a choice, but really you want something done a certain way, when he doesn't agree with your way, he fails.? Then feels badly about the situation and, worse?still, himself.
?
The best way I've personally found to open people up to other options is to be open to other options myself and honest when there other options aren't possible.?
If he wants to do the opposite of what you suggest, and it doesn't hurt anything, let him do it.? If whatever it is fails, let him reflect on why it failed without a lot of uninvited commentary.? As I mentioned in my last post, he's probably needing to assert himself.? He's still young.? He's still learning.? His prefrontal cortex (the decision making part of his brain) is still developing.? At this stage of his life he is influenced a lot on his amigdala (the emotional part of his brain). Because they look so mature, sometimes we expect more from teenagers than they are capable of doing or giving yet.? Give him time.? Show him patience and grace.? Be generous and understanding and supportive.? These things will go a long way toward helping him learn to make choices that consider other people, because he will come to have a deeper awareness of and confidence in being truly considered himself.
?
Karen James
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Karen James wrote: "He's still young.? He's still learning.? His prefrontal cortex (the decision making part of his brain) is still developing.? At this stage of his life he is influenced a lot on his amigdala (the emotional part of his brain). Because they look so mature, sometimes we expect more from teenagers than they are capable of doing or giving yet.? Give him time.? Show him patience and grace.? Be generous and understanding and supportive.? These things will go a long way toward helping him learn to make choices that consider other people, because he will come to have a deeper awareness of and confidence in being truly considered himself."
I'm repeating it because I want to say that any parent who chooses to unschool (any homeschooling, but especially unschooling) should have learned about human development somewhere along the way (before teen years, generally and ideally speaking).? YES to everything Karen wrote, and I'm grateful that she took the time to share her thoughts, as her own teen has just reached the end of his teen years, or is about to.??
Expecting a teen to behave as he used to when he was 12, or 10, or 8, is a harmful expectation.? The voice of his mother, in his head, will serve him better if it is a sweet and kind one, and if his memory of you is of you being gentle and smiling.??
Let him take care of trees the way he wants to, maybe.? If the retaining wall fails, it can be repaired, but it might not fail, and those trees might be benefited by something he does that you wouldn't have done.?
If a parent is too controlling, the parent doesn't see how the child can learn, and the child can't freely make choices to learn from.??
I think the questions are asking us to help the mother control the son.? That's not what unschooling should be about.??
Learning.
Peace.
Relationships.
Those are the answers being offered, and the responses seem to?be? "Yeah, but..."
Sandra
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Hello? Please could I have a recommendation for a good book to read on human development please ?? I read some when my son was little but would like to refresh for my 2nd child.? Many Thanks?
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On 11 Sep 2022, at 6:30 am, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
? Karen James wrote: "He's still young.? He's still learning.? His prefrontal cortex (the decision making part of his brain) is still developing.? At this stage of his life he is influenced a lot on his amigdala (the emotional part of his brain). Because they look so mature, sometimes we expect more from teenagers than they are capable of doing or giving yet.? Give him time.? Show him patience and grace.? Be generous and understanding and supportive.? These things will go a long way toward helping him learn to make choices that consider other people, because he will come to have a deeper awareness of and confidence in being truly considered himself."
I'm repeating it because I want to say that any parent who chooses to unschool (any homeschooling, but especially unschooling) should have learned about human development somewhere along the way (before teen years, generally and ideally speaking).? YES to everything Karen wrote, and I'm grateful that she took the time to share her thoughts, as her own teen has just reached the end of his teen years, or is about to.??
Expecting a teen to behave as he used to when he was 12, or 10, or 8, is a harmful expectation.? The voice of his mother, in his head, will serve him better if it is a sweet and kind one, and if his memory of you is of you being gentle and smiling.??
Let him take care of trees the way he wants to, maybe.? If the retaining wall fails, it can be repaired, but it might not fail, and those trees might be benefited by something he does that you wouldn't have done.?
If a parent is too controlling, the parent doesn't see how the child can learn, and the child can't freely make choices to learn from.??
I think the questions are asking us to help the mother control the son.? That's not what unschooling should be about.??
Learning.
Peace.
Relationships.
Those are the answers being offered, and the responses seem to?be? "Yeah, but..."
Sandra
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For teens, I really? loved Teenagers, A Natural History
https://www.bookdepository.com/Teenagers-A-Natural-History-David-Bainbridge/9781846271229?redirected=true&selectCurrency=AUD&w=AF45AU963Q6XRMA8VT66&gclid=CjwKCAjw1ICZBhAzEiwAFfvFhGGMop4CVm3miv2ArffKh8iteLVOQKYuzlwIvcQnMmjXPqirJj6nmRoCHscQAvD_BwE
?
Sent from for Windows
?
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From: jodie aldridge via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, 14 September 2022 6:14 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Will you please help?
?
Hello?
Please could I have a recommendation for a good book to read on human development please ??
I read some when my son was little but would like to refresh for my 2nd child.?
Jodie?
On 11 Sep 2022, at 6:30 am, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
?
Karen James wrote: "He's still young.? He's still learning.? His prefrontal cortex (the decision making part of his brain) is still developing.? At this stage of his life he is influenced a lot on his amigdala (the emotional part of his
brain). Because they look so mature, sometimes we expect more from teenagers than they are capable of doing or giving yet.? Give him time.? Show him patience and grace.? Be generous and understanding and supportive.? These things will go a long way toward
helping him learn to make choices that consider other people, because he will come to have a deeper awareness of and confidence in being truly considered himself."
I'm repeating it because I want to say that any parent who chooses to unschool (any homeschooling, but especially unschooling) should have learned about human development somewhere along the way (before teen years, generally and ideally speaking).? YES to everything
Karen wrote, and I'm grateful that she took the time to share her thoughts, as her own teen has just reached the end of his teen years, or is about to.??
Expecting a teen to behave as he used to when he was 12, or 10, or 8, is a harmful expectation.? The voice of his mother, in his head, will serve him better if it is a sweet and kind one, and if his memory of you is of you being gentle and smiling.??
Let him take care of trees the way he wants to, maybe.? If the retaining wall fails, it can be repaired, but it might not fail, and those trees might be benefited by something he does that you wouldn't have done.?
If a parent is too controlling, the parent doesn't see how the child can learn, and the child can't freely make choices to learn from.??
I think the questions are asking us to help the mother control the son.? That's not what unschooling should be about.??
Learning.
Peace.
Relationships.
Those are the answers being offered, and the responses seem to?be? "Yeah, but..."
Sandra
|
I loved Behave by Robert M. Sapolosky.? It's not about teenagers, but he does have a chapter on teenagers which was really interesting.? The whole book is interesting.? I have the audible version, so I can listen to it while I work on things that don't require my full attention.? There's a lot of detail, which you don't need to know, but it helps to recognize how deeply complicated we all are, and it helped me have more compassion for my son, for my husband, for my friends and family, for strangers, and for myself.??
?
?
Karen James
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The Parent/Teen Breakthrough is very good too.
?
?
Karen James
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I'll share one more.? It's a recent favourite of mine, again not about teenagers, but there's a chapter on arguing that might interest parents of teens (Chapter 7).? Arguing is a skill that, when used well, helps people learn to reason.? We often think of it as a barrier to healthy relationships, but it's really an extremely useful tool.? That we (parents, and especially unschooling parents) can help our teens practice honing that skill, is truly a privilege.?
The book is called How Minds Change, and it's by David McRaney.? ?There is is some overlap with the first book I shared, which was kinda cool for me to hear and recognize.? :)
https://www.amazon.com/How-Minds-Change-Surprising-Persuasion/dp/B094RJGCRH/ref=sr_1_1?gclid=CjwKCAjw1ICZBhAzEiwAFfvFhEWZ3GOsO_wNyTTAUEI8EvFzZ_umGo2lfdxqCGCG5-SX4-YI0DtJRhoCW2wQAvD_BwE&hvadid=596407103649&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9031909&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6106981080559142356&hvtargid=kwd-754815010257&hydadcr=22535_11318315&keywords=how+minds+change&qid=1663108778&sr=8-1?
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Thank you very much .? Would there be any suggestions for younger years , perhaps age 2 plus ?? Thanks again? Jodie?
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On 13 Sep 2022, at 10:46 pm, Jo Isaac <joanneisaac@...> wrote:
?
For teens, I really? loved Teenagers, A Natural History
https://www.bookdepository.com/Teenagers-A-Natural-History-David-Bainbridge/9781846271229?redirected=true&selectCurrency=AUD&w=AF45AU963Q6XRMA8VT66&gclid=CjwKCAjw1ICZBhAzEiwAFfvFhGGMop4CVm3miv2ArffKh8iteLVOQKYuzlwIvcQnMmjXPqirJj6nmRoCHscQAvD_BwE
?
Sent from for Windows
?
?
Hello?
Please could I have a recommendation for a good book to read on human development please ??
I read some when my son was little but would like to refresh for my 2nd child.?
Jodie?
On 11 Sep 2022, at 6:30 am, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
?
Karen James wrote: "He's still young.? He's still learning.? His prefrontal cortex (the decision making part of his brain) is still developing.? At this stage of his life he is influenced a lot on his amigdala (the emotional part of his
brain). Because they look so mature, sometimes we expect more from teenagers than they are capable of doing or giving yet.? Give him time.? Show him patience and grace.? Be generous and understanding and supportive.? These things will go a long way toward
helping him learn to make choices that consider other people, because he will come to have a deeper awareness of and confidence in being truly considered himself."
I'm repeating it because I want to say that any parent who chooses to unschool (any homeschooling, but especially unschooling) should have learned about human development somewhere along the way (before teen years, generally and ideally speaking).? YES to everything
Karen wrote, and I'm grateful that she took the time to share her thoughts, as her own teen has just reached the end of his teen years, or is about to.??
Expecting a teen to behave as he used to when he was 12, or 10, or 8, is a harmful expectation.? The voice of his mother, in his head, will serve him better if it is a sweet and kind one, and if his memory of you is of you being gentle and smiling.??
Let him take care of trees the way he wants to, maybe.? If the retaining wall fails, it can be repaired, but it might not fail, and those trees might be benefited by something he does that you wouldn't have done.?
If a parent is too controlling, the parent doesn't see how the child can learn, and the child can't freely make choices to learn from.??
I think the questions are asking us to help the mother control the son.? That's not what unschooling should be about.??
Learning.
Peace.
Relationships.
Those are the answers being offered, and the responses seem to?be? "Yeah, but..."
Sandra
|
Why a book???
There are graphs, charts, and links up top to help you narrow it down by age or stage.
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On my own site, with unschooling in mind, I have:
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Piaget's Stages of Cognitive Development
That has some links.
Erickson's stages are more about social and psychological development, than cognitive.? Lots of that is at the first link.
?
If you read several others, that won't hurt! It's not about reading one book or "learning" one set of stages, but of adding to your understanding of what is likely, and why, and how unschooling parents can help kids be comfortably supported in their natural exploration of the world from whatever level of understanding or thought or awareness or need they're living in and through!
?
Reading a whole book, rather than peeking into colorful charts or explanations by and for unschoolers might be too much time to take away from a young child.??
I loved "Behave," but it's about neurochemistry, and not a quick or easy read. :-)
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Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
Karen James
