Re: OG ideas and 12 Steps
Earl writes on 292 , Bb, 3rd edition," we went over these at great length and then he finally asked me if I wanted these defects of character removed. When I said yes, we both knelt at his desk and prayed, each of us asking to have these defects taken away."?
With the listing of 1 thru 6, plus the sentences after, Earl writes seven things or ideas. Seven is not six.
Also in reading about guidance from OG literature and ideas, "guidance" is from the four Absolutes and other ideas. So guidance is not just one action. Earls depiction is clearly many actions, not just six. So his story helps to reject the claim of six steps, not prove it
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Re: OG ideas and 12 Steps
The so-called Six "precepts" or steps that many believe existed prior to the book being written seems to be wishful recollection of the 1950's and late 1940¡¯s from Bill and others.
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In April of 1953 Bill ?scribbled down six steps (precepts) when asked by Father Ed Dowling (Bill's spiritual sponsor).?
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The were:
Admitted hopeless
Got Honest with self
Got honest with another
Made Amends
Helped other without demand
Prayed to God as you understand Him
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There are several versions of the so-called six steps in printed literature and Bill Wilson talks, all occurring in the late 40¡¯s and early 1950's. William Schaberg in WRITING THE BIG BOOK, found the first mention in 1948.?
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They exist today in The Big Book in Earl Treat's story HE SOLD HIMSELF short, that appeared in the Second Edition (also 1955). Earl claims he got them from Dr. Bob Smith.
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They were:?
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Complete deflation.
Dependence and guidance from a Higher Power.
Moral inventory.
Confession.
Restitution.
Continued work with other alcoholics.¡±
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There are versions in ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS COMES OF AGE, the Grapevine FRAGMENT OF HISTORY and a transcript of a Bill talk. All slightly different.
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If you study Oxford literature and history you will not find them. Do a google search for "Anne Smith's journal" and you will discover the 5 C's along with 28 ideas used by the Oxfords.
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The five C's: confidence, confession, conviction, conversion, and continuance.
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There were also the Four Absolutes: Honesty, Unselfishness, Purity, and Love.
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The trouble is that many take what came out of Bill's and other's mouth as accurate history. It gets repeated in talks and then believed and parroted by many as fact, when it isn't.
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I think this from Jimmy Burwell¡¯s story A VICIOUS CYCLE is closer to the truth:
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¡°At that time the group in New York was composed of about twelve men who were working on the principle of every drunk for himself; we had no real formula and no name. We would follow one man¡¯s ideas for a while, decide he was wrong, and switch to another¡¯s method. But we were staying sober as long as we kept and talked together.¡±
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Re: OG ideas and 12 Steps
Schaberg discounts the Six Steps stories in "Writing the Big Book" on pp.442-457 but particularly at the top of p. 450.? In that same part he discounts BW's version of how Bill took the Six Steps and made them Twelve.? Another bit in the Pantheon of AA Myth.
I am half-way thru a book named "Distilled Spirits: Getting High, Then Sober, with a Famous Writer, a Forgotten? Philosopher, and a Hopeless Drunk."? by Don Lattin, a person in recovery,? The subjects are, in order, Aldous Huxley,Gerald Heard, and Bill Wilson.? Lattin says both Bill and Dr. Bob ". . . were both familiar with Heard's early writings on spirituality and social organization," p. 169.? Lattin says "There are many similarities between Heard's ideas and the principles outlined . . . in the Big Book . . . and the Twelve and Twelve."? pp/ 169-170.? Heard's influence is most clearly seen in the 12&12's "explanation of how a dedicated program of prayer and meditation can lead the seeker and the alcoholic to a powerful spiritual awakening,"? p. 170.? He is not mentioned? by Schaberg but is on the Who's Who in AA History, and at least one person thinks he influenced the BB and 12&12.
The other two were influential in BW's use of psychedelics, but I'm just getting into that part.
Tom H
In one of his talks, Bill W indicated that much of the Twelve Steps was learned from his association with the Oxford Group.? Page xvi from the Big Book These six principles finally became the basis for the written Twelve steps in the Big Book. ? Before the Big Book was written there existed a six-step word of mouth program. An example of this can be found on page 263 of the big Book: ? Moral Inventory Confession of personality defects Restitution to those harmed Helpfulness to others Necessity of belief in and dependance upon God ? These are not exact parallels, but the comparison comes close. ?? ? Dr. Bob used these with Earl Treat in 1937. (Earl Treat eventually founded AA in Chicago--Page 263 from BB) ? ? Bob S ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
?
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Bob S
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In one of his talks, Bill W indicated that much of the Twelve Steps was learned from his association with the Oxford Group.? Page xvi from the Big Book These six principles finally became the basis for the written Twelve steps in the Big Book. ? Before the Big Book was written there existed a six-step word of mouth program. An example of this can be found on page 263 of the big Book: ? Moral Inventory Confession of personality defects Restitution to those harmed Helpfulness to others Necessity of belief in and dependance upon God ? These are not exact parallels, but the comparison comes close. ?? ? Dr. Bob used these with Earl Treat in 1937. (Earl Treat eventually founded AA in Chicago--Page 263 from BB) ? ? Bob S ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? -- Bob S
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Re: Ancient substance of the Serenity Prayer
Elisabeth Sifton's book explains a lot about the prayer. Niebuhr's
daughter. As I? understand it the original emphasis was on the
phrase, "Change the things I can." Urging preachers to stop
preaching peace with Hitler as a way to help the tension in the late
1930's.
Gess
On 2/17/2022 5:07 PM, Tom Hickcox
wrote:
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A nice one, Bob.? Thanks for posting it.? I like the Stoic
book.
It doesn't mention where the second verse came from.? I
think it wasn't original with Niebuhr.
Tom
The
attached article explains that the basic Ideas of the
Serenity Prayer were written on paper (parchment?)
two-thousand years ago!? ?To read more about this,
please Google: ?
?
The?Daily
Stoic:?366
Meditations?on Wisdom, Perseverance,
and the Art of Living (by Ryan Holiday) epub,?pdf, mobi, fb2?...
?
Bob S
?
?
--
Bob S
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Re: Ancient substance of the Serenity Prayer
A nice one, Bob.? Thanks for posting it.? I like the Stoic book.
It doesn't mention where the second verse came from.? I think it wasn't original with Niebuhr.
Tom
The attached article explains that the basic Ideas of the Serenity Prayer were written on paper (parchment?) two-thousand years ago!? ?To read more about this, please Google: ? ? The?Daily Stoic:?366 Meditations?on Wisdom, Perseverance, and the Art of Living (by Ryan Holiday) epub,?pdf, mobi, fb2?... ? Bob S ? ?
--
Bob S
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Ancient substance of the Serenity Prayer
The attached article explains that the basic Ideas of the Serenity Prayer were written on paper (parchment?) two-thousand years ago!? ?To read more about this, please Google: ? ? The?Daily Stoic:?366 Meditations?on Wisdom, Perseverance, and the Art of Living (by Ryan Holiday) epub,?pdf, mobi, fb2?... ? Bob S ? ? -- Bob S
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¡°SUGAR¡± in The Book That Started It All
Michelle asked me if I knew what those handwritten "sugar" notes as seen in The Book That Started It All?were all about.
After some investigation, I came up with the following which I thought might be of interest to some here.?
¡°SUGAR¡± in The Book That Started It All
(all page numbers refer to those at the bottom of the page in the center)
??
First of all, I am not sure that I have identified all of the handwritten references to ¡°sugar¡± et al. in the text.
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Those I have identified are:
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p. 26: ¡°3 Physiological urge or necessity / urge for drink, eat chocolate ¨C / Indefinable urge to do something / grab a hunk of chocolate¡±
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pp. 73, 75 & 77: ¡°Sugar¡± written at the top of each page
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p. 87: ¡°go back on sugar / pages¡± inside a penciled circle
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p. 93: ¡°Sugar 1¡± following an insert mark (>) followed by a penciled arrow moving the ¡°insert¡± up one paragraph
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NOTE: All of these entries appear to be in the same hand, one that I have identified as unmistakably belonging to Henry G. Parkhurst
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For the sake of context, it should be noted that the late four paragraph insertion into Bill¡¯s Story which appear in The Book That Started It All on pages 24 & 25 in Hank Parkhurst¡¯s handwriting are referenced on page 38 with ¡°Inst > #1¡± ¨C indicating the spot at which those four paragraphs needed to be inserted.
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[See the appearance of the first four full paragraphs on page 12 of the 4th edition printing of Alcoholics Anonymous ¨C paragraphs which do NOT appear in the Multilith Printing.]
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This indication of an insert on page 38 is strikingly similar to the ¡°sugar¡± insert already noted to appear on page 93.
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AND¡ while the text does not appear anywhere in The Book That Started It All, a glance at the bottom of page 133 and the top of page 134 for the 4th edition printing of Alcoholics Anonymous, reveals the insertion of the following ¡°sugar¡± text (which, again, does NOT appear in the Multilith Printing):
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One of the many doctors who had the opportunity of reading this book in manuscript form told us that the use of sweets was often helpful, of course depending upon a doctor's advice. He thought all alcoholic should constantly have chocolate available for its quick energy value at times of fatigue. He added that occasionally in the night a vague craving arose which would be satisfied by candy. Many of us have noticed a tendency to eat sweets and have found this practice beneficial.
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I would SPECULATE that this reference to a doctor is almost certainly spurious ¨C I think they were just putting words into his mouth here ¨C and I find this SPECULATION credible because of the other prominent calls for the mention of chocolate and sugar on pages 26, 73, 75, 75 & 87 (as noted above)
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In short, Hank was lobbying throughout for some mention of the beneficial effects of ¡°sugar¡± for the newly recovered man. He detailed this on page 26 and then wrote the word ¡°sugar¡± at the top of the front-facing side (the Multilith Printing was two-sided) of the first three (of four) pages of ¡°Working With Others¡± (pp. 73, 75 & 77). I further SPECULATE that this was Hank¡¯s way of suggesting that mentioning the benefits of sugar consumption to a new man should certainly be included here somewhere.
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Likewise, while making his ongoing suggestions for edits to the text, Hank seems to have felt that the chapter ¡°To Wives¡± should tell the wife about the beneficial effects that sweets might have on her newly sober husband (PERHAPS so that she wouldn¡¯t make the same complaining mistake made by the wife at the end of ¡°The Family Afterward¡± who drove her husband back to drinking by her constant complaints about his heavy smoking and coffee drinking).
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On the other hand, the specific page 87 note to ¡°go back on sugar pages¡± may well refer to something completely different and more specific (but, alas, now lost).
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Given these limited resources, that is the best sense I can make out of the ¡°sugar¡± references I have found in The Book That Started It All.
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William Schaberg
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February 11, 2022
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Who was "California Bill"?
One , said to have been compiled by Nancy O., notes that on February 14, 2000, William Y., "California Bill," died in Winston Salem, NC. Who was he and what was so significant about his contribution to A.A. that his death would be noted in Nancy's timeline?
In love & service,
Hugh
?--
Hugh Hyatt
?+1 267.992.1297? ( ?voice, text, ? Duo, Signal)
???+1 ?215.?839.?6284? (?alternate ?voice, text)???
hugh.hyatt+AAHL@...
?
,
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¡°The first concern of AA members should be with problem drinkers the movement is still unable to reach.¡± ¨DBill W., 1965 International Convention
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How many members were our fellowship in June of 1939? Did Florence Rankin count? Thanks for a verified answer. ? Bob S ? Robert Stonebraker 212 SW 18th Street Richmond, IN 47374 765 935-0130 ? -- Bob S
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Re: Big Book Evaluation and editing
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Back when Arthur wrote this no one knew about Janet Blair. She should be given some credit for editing. A lot of new info has come up in so many areas but its next to impossible to get old sources updated :)?
Thank you Robert?
[Moderator edit: fixed a minor typo. It happens. :) -Thom]
On Jan 31, 2022, at 12:56 PM, Bob S <rstonebraker212@...> wrote:
By early January 1939, the draft book text and personal stories were completed. 400 multilith copies were distributed for evaluation. Each copy of the manuscript was stamped as a ¡±loan copy.¡±?? It was titled ¡°Alcoholics Anonymous.¡±
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In February/March they were returned the readers comments produced few alternations in the final text.? A NJ psychiatrist named Dr. Howard (a possible alias) recommended the use of musts and changing them to ¡°we ought¡± or ¡°we should.¡± Dr Silkworth and Dr Tiebout offered similar advice. The manuscript was turned over to Tom Uzzell, a friend of Hank Parkhurst, an editor of Colliers Magazine and a member of the NYU facility. The manuscript was variously estimated as 600 to 1200 pages (including personal stories). Uzzell reduced it to approximately 400 pages. Most cuts came from the personal stories, which had been edited by Akron member Jim Scott (The News Hawk).?
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In March 1939, Ruth Hock (Bill¡¯s secretary who typed the manuscript) and Dorothy Snyder (wife of Clarence Snyder) drove to Cornwall, NY and delivered a much-altered manuscript to the printing plant of the Cornwell Press.? When the plant manager saw the condition of the manuscript, he sent them back to make a ¡°fresh typing of the whole business.¡±?? Hank Parkhurst convinced the manager to accept the manuscript on the condition that the group would examine and correct the gally proofs as they came off the press. The Group checked into a local hotel and spent the next several days proofreading galleys.?
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The above information was gleaned from A NARRATIVE TIMELINE of AA HISTORY,? by Arthur S.? Bibliography of these facts are listed in this book on page 22.??
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This excerpt was edited by yours truly for brevity.?
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Bob S
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Hank Parkhurst has always one of my AA heroes because without his participation the Big Book would never have been written.? The above is one more example of this.?
-- Bob S
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--
Eugene Lane
Redondo Bch Ca
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Big Book Evaluation and editing
By early January 1939, the draft book text and personal stories were completed. 400 multilith copies were distributed for evaluation. Each copy of the manuscript was stamped as a ¡±loan copy.¡±?? It was titled ¡°Alcoholics Anonymous.¡± ? In February/March they were returned the readers comments produced few alternations in the final text.? A NJ psychiatrist named Dr. Howard (a possible alias) recommended the use of musts and changing them to ¡°we ought¡± or ¡°we should.¡± Dr Silkworth and Dr Tiebout offered similar advice. The manuscript was turned over to Tom Uzzell, a friend of Hank Parkhurst, an editor of Colliers Magazine and a member of the NYU facility. The manuscript was variously estimated as 600 to 1200 pages (including personal stories). Uzzell reduced it to approximately 400 pages. Most cuts came from the personal stories, which had been edited by Akron member Jim Scott (The News Hawk).? ? In March 1939, Ruth Hock (Bill¡¯s secretary who typed the manuscript) and Dorothy Snyder (wife of Clarence Snyder) drove to Cornwall, NY and delivered a much-altered manuscript to the printing plant of the Cornwell Press.? When the plant manager saw the condition of the manuscript, he sent them back to make a ¡°fresh typing of the whole business.¡±?? Hank Parkhurst convinced the manager to accept the manuscript on the condition that the group would examine and correct the gally proofs as they came off the press. The Group checked into a local hotel and spent the next several days proofreading galleys.? ? The above information was gleaned from A NARRATIVE TIMELINE of AA HISTORY,? by Arthur S.? Bibliography of these facts are listed in this book on page 22.?? ? This excerpt was edited by yours truly for brevity.? ? Bob S ? Hank Parkhurst has always one of my AA heroes because without his participation the Big Book would never have been written.? The above is one more example of this.? -- Bob S
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Re: RUMINATION on STAGNATION #1: Old Timers
Homegroup. I think we need to close the back door. Be "our brother's keeper". Conscript newcomers to service. Call between meetings. Follow-up on no-shows. There is a lot of dedicated grey hair in the service structure.?What are we doing to pass it on? The concensus is that the last funeral doesn't? prevent the next one. What will? Fellowship (relationship) under the headship of a power greater than ourselves.? carlwintheiser@...?2262.354.5933 ALT-DCM?
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Re: RUMINATION on STAGNATION #1: Old Timers
Barry Murtaugh here. D.O.S. 4th Thursday in Jan 1980. Secretary and Trustee of The Online Intergroup of AA. In business since 1996-25 years. aa-Intergroup.org is our website. Check it out. Over 1,500,000 visitors in 2021. 4500 meetings listed 490 Voting Member Groups.( adding about 4 a week) 16 languages. 24/7/365 Get Help Now 12 Step resource. Result is thousands of newbies introduced into both terrestrial AA and online groups. Some pandemic newbies are coming up on 2 years sober. Never been in a face to face (F2F )meeting.? Some long timers have 50+ years. Many new day counters and rebound AA¡¯s coming back. With all the milestones in between. Active in all earthly time zones. Completely outside AA service structure as it stands now. And the message is being delivered daily using the means supplied by our HP in this state of affairs.
OIAA recently featured in the Winter issue of PO Box 459. In love and service- Best Regards,Barry Murtaugh Secretary &Trustee OIAA 773.851.2100 mobile
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On Jan 21, 2022, at 5:56 PM, Jeffrey Your, CSMM via groups.io <jyour@...> wrote:
? Speaking from NE Ohio, could it be that the greater?number of so-called oldtimers has a demographic and sponsorship component? Demographically, two items (1) People were getting sober younger in the 1970s and 80s, due in part to the 'treatment boom', especially adolescent treatment. (2) People are also living longer in general than in the 1970s, because of medical advancements. I think the statistics will bear this out.
Sponsorship played a big part in ensuring that those thousands who 'invaded' meetings during the boom years received a good foundation and thus were able to withstand the 'certain trials and low spots ahead'.? We who are now knocking on 30/40 years sobriety benefited tremendously from those bleeding deacons who gave us the finger in the chest approach.? For every one of those, there were at least as many elder statesmen who said 'Let us love you until you can love yourself'.? ?I needed both approaches because I was an egomaniac with an inferiority complex.
Now the mantle of responsibility has passed to us, who still think of ourselves as young (I'm 58 with 36 years).? Who are my proteges; who is in my pipeline?? Who am I bringing along with as much care and selfless service as those oldtimers did for me? There are mitigating and aggravating?factors outside these two, mentioned by others. Other fellowships (not all 12 Step-based), social media, the proliferation of zoom meetings (which seem to be off GSO's radar screen), and the proliferation of Big Book study groups have an effect.
Jeff Your? Past Delegate for Life Thursday Men's Fellowship Cleveland, Ohio?
On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 2:38 AM william schaberg < bill@...> wrote: I find the reported current ¡°flat lining¡± of A.A.¡¯s membership to be a fascinating topic.
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Re: RUMINATION on STAGNATION #1: Old Timers
Speaking from NE Ohio, could it be that the greater?number of so-called oldtimers has a demographic and sponsorship component? Demographically, two items (1) People were getting sober younger in the 1970s and 80s, due in part to the 'treatment boom', especially adolescent treatment. (2) People are also living longer in general than in the 1970s, because of medical advancements. I think the statistics will bear this out.
Sponsorship played a big part in ensuring that those thousands who 'invaded' meetings during the boom years received a good foundation and thus were able to withstand the 'certain trials and low spots ahead'.? We who are now knocking on 30/40 years sobriety benefited tremendously from those bleeding deacons who gave us the finger in the chest approach.? For every one of those, there were at least as many elder statesmen who said 'Let us love you until you can love yourself'.? ?I needed both approaches because I was an egomaniac with an inferiority complex.
Now the mantle of responsibility has passed to us, who still think of ourselves as young (I'm 58 with 36 years).? Who are my proteges; who is in my pipeline?? Who am I bringing along with as much care and selfless service as those oldtimers did for me? There are mitigating and aggravating?factors outside these two, mentioned by others. Other fellowships (not all 12 Step-based), social media, the proliferation of zoom meetings (which seem to be off GSO's radar screen), and the proliferation of Big Book study groups have an effect.
Jeff Your? Past Delegate for Life Thursday Men's Fellowship Cleveland, Ohio?
On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 2:38 AM william schaberg < bill@...> wrote: I find the reported current ¡°flat lining¡± of A.A.¡¯s membership to be a fascinating topic.
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Re: RUMINATION on STAGNATION #1: Old Timers
I am seeing that AA is attracting newcomers - of all ages - to both in-person and Zoom-based AA meetings.
I find that meetings on Zoom tend to be of older folks, who have health issues - but I've also seen AA folks on Zoom which are all ages, all locations, all backgrounds.
One of my "regular" meetings is 20-25 people - from 22 to 75 years of age, and from 5 days to 38 years active sobriety.? In one meeting that is "coming back" after COVID, of the 15 AA's in attendance, 3 of us together had 110 years of sobriety, and 6 folks in the meeting had maybe three weeks of sobriety, together.?
Yes, there are always the folks who are going to get their meeting slips signed so they can meet requirements to get their Vivitrol shots - but I also find those are the exceptions. I find that this is very similar to "those who came and really tried..." - we will always have those who are "just checking AA out," but there are also those who get the message that the 12 step program works, when we actually work it. I have a great deal of faith that AA will endure, and we are not "aging away" in any way.
Steve Flower Attitude of Gratitude meeting, Springfield, MO? - 12/12/90
On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:49 PM Jim Robbins via <jrobbins1123= [email protected]> wrote: Bill, in my home group we have a good number of ?ld-Timers", but also a larger number of those with 5 years and less. I also attend another group where nearly everyone got sober in the 70's and 80's. I got sober in 87, but I'm nearly the youngest sobriety in that group of 20-25 members.? My home group on the other hand has nearly 200 members. I attend these two groups for very separate reasons. One to carry the message and the other to tap into the huge base of recovery. I often hear that AA is stagnating, but in the groups that I attend AA seems to be growing as we are getting more and more attendees.
This is a really interesting topic and I am anxious to see other posts.
Jim Robbins
Legacy Group
Plano, Tx
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This Chip Of A Book History Seminar
Come join us for a wonderful experience with the history of our book?
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Re: RUMINATION on STAGNATION #1: Old Timers
Bill, in my home group we have a good number of ?ld-Timers", but also a larger number of those with 5 years and less. I also attend another group where nearly everyone got sober in the 70's and 80's. I got sober in 87, but I'm nearly the youngest sobriety in that group of 20-25 members.? My home group on the other hand has nearly 200 members. I attend these two groups for very separate reasons. One to carry the message and the other to tap into the huge base of recovery. I often hear that AA is stagnating, but in the groups that I attend AA seems to be growing as we are getting more and more attendees.
This is a really interesting topic and I am anxious to see other posts.
Jim Robbins
Legacy Group
Plano, Tx
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Re: RUMINATION on STAGNATION #1: Old Timers
I definitely have noticed the proliferation of old timers. I have more than three decades of sobriety and that seemed to be extremely rare when I first came in but I have plenty of peers here in the Chicago area.
I was worried about the "graying" of the demographics of the fellowship before the pandemic.? But the zoom meetings have given me great hope. I am fairly sure that I have been in zoom meetings with roughly the same total number of newcomers (which I define as < year sober for my back of the envelope calculations) in the two years of the pandemic as I was in my prior 29 years of sobriety.
There's a lot that can be wrong with this calculation including that it could just be that with the limited number of zoom meetings, the newcomers are clustered in fewer places so it can seem like there's more of them. But I doubt that accounts for it completely, especially as I hear a lot of newcomers say that they just wouldn't yet be in the program if they had had to walk into an in-person meeting. Zoom may have just turned out to be an easy and culturally appropriate access point for the current generation of newcomers.
So, I am extremely hopeful that we may be watching a new renaissance of AA.
Mark
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Re: RUMINATION on STAGNATION #1: Old Timers
All excellent points.
Our experience is the same here on the west coast. Our zoom group based in Oregon is almost all 30+. Our live and zoom groups in SoCal, all more than 15.
Perhaps the prevalence of Recovery centers have offered alternative ways of quitting drinking so that newcomers don't come to AA to get sober. Those early bonds, born of desperation, are formed in the recovery center, not in the rooms of AA.
Just my thoughts...
Doris R
6/7/83
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Bob S
william schaberg
Hugh Hyatt
Gene
Seastones
