Re: Case IV (Hospital No. 1152) From Dr. Silkworth's Reclamation of the Alcoholic April 21, 1937 Medical Record
Hello.
Thanks for the information. Supposedly Ebby brought The Varieties to Bill in the hospital so he wouldn't have entered carrying them with him. If it was a previous stay, my guesses would be Mary Baker Eddy's book that he was interested in and perhaps The Common Sense of Drinking although I don't think they would be philosophy.
On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 10:13 PM Wayne T. < wsst1000@...> wrote: [Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: Added question.]
Case IV (Hospital No. 1152). – A broker, who had earned as much as $25,000 a year, and had come, through alcohol, to a position where he was being supported by his wife, presented himself for treatment carrying with him two books on a philosophy from which he hoped to get a new inspiration: His desire to discontinue alcohol was intense, and he certainly made every effort within his own capabilities do to so. Following the course of treatment in which the alcohol and toxic products were eliminated and his craving counteracted, he took up moral psychology. At first, he found it difficult to rehabilitate himself financially, as his old friends had no confidence in his future conduct. Later he was given an opportunity and is now a director in a large corporation. He gives part of his income to help others in his former condition, and he has gathered about him a group of over fifty men, all free from their former alcoholism through the application of this method of treatment and “moral psychology.”
The Doctor's description of Bill in the medical journal, Medical Record, April 21, 1937.
What was the 2nd book, assuming the first book was Varieties of Religious Experience?
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Re: New York Times December 1903 Articles about Professor Langley (Ref: "We Agnostics" Page 51 paragraph 2)
Perhaps the sign maker was a little confused, which happens sometimes.The Wikipedia article on Widewater, Virginia cites these two sources that put the attempted flights at Widewater.
D. Crouch, A Dream of Wings: Americans and the Airplane, 1875-1905 (W. W. Norton & Company, 2002) p276
Michael J. Neufeld and Alex M. Spencer, Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum: An Autobiography (National Geographic Books, 2010) p62, p7
Widewater, Virginia is on the Potomac near Washington D,C, whilst Tidewater, Virginia is on the Rappahannock River and a long way from the Smithsonian Castle. All sources point to the professor conducting his experiments on the Potomac.
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Re: Old Baltimore Prologue
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I am researching The Old Baltimore Prologue and have found differing versions about where and how it originated.? A local booklet says the Baltimore Intergroup asked a group to put something together and that is how it came about.? Other sources say a business man named Shoe from Deleware wrote it and that it was used in Baltimore and the Wilmington area.? Any feedback or other Information/sources?
Thanks!
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Re: New York Times December 1903 Articles about Professor Langley (Ref: "We Agnostics" Page 51 paragraph 2)
-the name of the place where the trial took place is Tidewater, Va not Widewater .i live in Norfolk, Va and there is a Sign starting the trial took place here.
Bob Hickey
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Case IV (Hospital No. 1152) From Dr. Silkworth's Reclamation of the Alcoholic April 21, 1937 Medical Record
Case IV (Hospital No. 1152). – A broker, who had earned as much as $25,000 a year, and had come, through alcohol, to a position where he was being supported by his wife, presented himself for treatment carrying with him two books on a philosophy from which he hoped to get a new inspiration: His desire to discontinue alcohol was intense, and he certainly made every effort within his own capabilities do to so. Following the course of treatment in which the alcohol and toxic products were eliminated and his craving counteracted, he took up moral psychology. At first, he found it difficult to rehabilitate himself financially, as his old friends had no confidence in his future conduct. Later he was given an opportunity and is now a director in a large corporation. He gives part of his income to help others in his former condition, and he has gathered about him a group of over fifty men, all free from their former alcoholism through the application of this method of treatment and “moral psychology.”
The Doctor's description of Bill in the medical journal, Medical Record, April 21, 1937. What was the 2nd book, assuming the first book was Varieties of Religious Experience?
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I was always on previous yahoo AA history lovers group.? Today (12/4/20) Heard Jim C. ?from Cancun’s presentation on AA history timeline at recoveryspeakers weekly AA history Zoom meeting. ? Hope to join this Facebook group, which Jim plugged. ? My current AA History `bug up my you know what’ ?is: ? Did Bill and Lois attend Emmett Fox lectures? Was Bill a big fan of Sermon On The Mount Fox’s most famous work? ? Dr Bob is cited by Dorothy Snyder in a recorded interview as to being a big fan of Sermon On The Mount; but oddly enough there were three Fox books in the Stepping Stones library collection, and Sermon On The Mount was not one of them. ? Jay Stinnett who helped Bill Schaberg research for “The Writing Of The Big Book” told me via email that there were only four books praised by Bill in all the written documentation of Bill’s writings and Sermon On The Mount was not one of them. ? The only four books officially endorsed by Bill in his writings (according to Jay) were: ? The Imprisoned Splendor by Raynor Johnson
Cosmic Consciousness by Raymond Bucke
Varieties of Religious Experience ?by William James
Heaven and Hell ?by Aldous Huxley ? Jay also told me (via email) that indeed some early members of AA attended Fox’s lectures, but there was no written documentation regarding the Wilsons attending. ? Interesting.? I was looking forward to Mitchell K.’s presentation on the “New Thought Movement” and its influence on AA, but unfortunately Mitchell took ill. I’m hoping he gets stronger and can eventually present his talk. Emmett Fox was considered a major figure in the “New Thought Movement” along with Florence Shinn and others. ? Any relevant clarification will be welcome:? royslev@... ? Regards, ? Roy L.? a.k.a. “a miracle of mental health” class of `78 ?
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New York Times December 1903 Articles about Professor Langley (Ref: "We Agnostics" Page 51 paragraph 2)
I went into the New York Times "Times Machine" and harvested images of articles from December 1903 regarding Professor Langley's flying machine which Bill references on page 51 paragraph 2 of "We Agnostics".
I'd heard a speaker say that the Times had published an editorial suggesting that Langley's work was a waste of money shortly before the Wright Brother's successful flight on December 17, 1903.
The editorial referenced appeared on 12/10/1903. To put it in perspective I captured a picture of the whole page in which it appears. As I read it, it seems the editorial writer is asserting that Professor Langley is particularly ill equipped to design a flying machine and that he ought to pursue some other scientific endeavor. In the last paragraph the author also appears to demonstrate a lack of vision for the possibilities of heavier than air flight. While the reference to Icarus would seem to indicate that the author thought the effort would be doomed to failure. To me, this writer is showing the bias that Bill references the first paragraph of page 51 paragraph 2.
I also captured images of several other articles related to Professor Langley from the Times including a letter to the editor written in response to the December 10, 1903 editorial/..
Here is the text of the editorial. Comments, perspective and other documents related to this subject would be appreciated.
THURSDAY, DECEMBER 10, 1903
THE LANGLEY AEROPLANE.
It would serve no useful purpose to say anything which would increase the disappointment and mortification of Professor Langley at the Instant and complete collapse of his airship, which broke In two and dropped Into the Potomac, carrying Prof. MANLY his second In-voluntary Cold bath in that stream. The fact baa established itself that Prof. Langley is not a mechanician, and that his mathematics are better adapted to calculations of astronomical interest than to determining the strength of materials in mechanical constructions. Had his machine collided with a stronger and heavier machine in the launching. It mlght have broken its back without crediting the formula of its inventor. But since it encountered only air,? the fact that It broke In two means nothing other or different than that It was not strong enough for the work expected of It. Obviously the calculations which Inspired Prof. with so much confidence were correct to a demonstration probably that happened In this Instance which is liable to happen In alt mechanical constructions, the materials did not conform to the data on which the calculations were based. They never will. The margin of safety which the engineer allows arbitrarily for strength in excess or that Which his calculations show him are sufficient is based upon experience that materials do not always, if often do what is expected or them, and what they capable of doing. That " there is always, somewhere a weakest spot: is why the factor of safety Is allowed. To allow it In an aeroplane would be to weight It so that it would be too heavy for its purpose.
We hope that Prof. Langley will not put his substantial greatness as a scientist Sn further peril by continuing to waste his time, And the money Involved in future airship experiments. Life is short, and he is capable of services incomparably greater than can result from trying to fly. Men like Santos-Dumont should have this field all to themselves.For students and investigators of the Langley type there are more useful employments, with fewer disappointments and mortifications than have been the portion of aerial navigators since the days of Icarus. .
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Re: How come Bob Person's giant history of AA never got published?
I would agree with your thoughts on this subject IF GSO Archives were transparent in their decision-making and sharing processes, so that "great authors and historians" had full access to them. Even considering an updated "AA Comes of Age" seems to occasion more fear than excitement. Over three times as many years have passed since the two decades covered in the original "history" book, which was selectively curated, to say the least.?
I am forever in debt to authors like Kurtz, Schaberg, White, Cheever, and Mitchell K, to name but a few. Collectively, they present a more accurate and lively reading of the history of Alcoholics Anonymous. I would encourage GSO Archives to adopt a more welcoming tone to future historians, but I understand the institutional need to "control the message."?
Person's tome languishes, which is unfortunate. It's a shame that a small collective of present-day historians couldn't comb through his writing and eliminate inaccuracies. As for the expression of opinion? It is found in every piece of writing, including history. What is emphasized, what gets included or left out; all these decisions are influenced by the author(s) point of view.
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Re: How come Bob Person's giant history of AA never got published?
An example, in the section on Southern California start the manuscript says,
"Roy Y., who later moved to Texas, was active in Los Angeles during this period. He remembers they had a "Goon Squad" to corral any member who got drunk and ride herd on him until he sobered up."
This implies he was part of the AA group in California.? The facts may have been mixed up with other notes but other sources say this is not accurate.
Since my area of most interest is AA and the Military and Roy served during WWII in Alaska and helped start AA in Tampa/St Pete FL while stationed there, he is a figure I am interested in.
I have two recorded talks by Roy himself who says he first joined AA in Texas and that when he lived in California he tried the Keely cure with a friend from the bar.
Other fascinating things I found was the firing of the GV Editor in the 1960s over articles they published that were counter to AA Traditions.? HR matters and statements of opinion that?could not be published ethically as history in my view.? It did however peak my interest?and lead me to find the GV articles?in question in the digital archives and read them for myself.?
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Re: How come Bob Person's giant history of AA never got published?
The only part I plan on reading is the three chapters on the history and growth of various AA groups across the United States. Your thoughts after reading these three chapters of the book?
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Re: How come Bob Person's giant history of AA never got published?
I find the manuscript historically inaccurate on several occasions but a good place to start and go from down historical rabbit holes, which I seem to have an affinity for.? It is also full of opinion and could not gain the support of the GSB and the GSC to be published as an AA history book.? I find it a great example of why AAWS should not publish another history book such as was proposed like a "AA Comes of Age II" etc.??
It is my opinion that the best AA histories are written by great authors and historians and the preservation of facts and access to support them should be left to the GSO Archives department, not publishing it.
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Re: Sequence of AA early AA meetings
Interesting. ?Ty for info! I also believe one was held at Mayos home or near his home but it pettered out. I was suprised by the amount in attendance. 55-60 peeps Is quite a few. When early meetings are mentioned I did only think of NY Akron and Cleveland. ?In Sept 39 we know Cleveland was splitting and growing rapidly. ?I didnt know such large meetings were happening elsewhere.? Gene
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On Dec 1, 2020, at 6:01 PM, Bob S <rstonebraker212@...> wrote:
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I understand that the first meeting in NYC met at several locations” ? 182 Clinton Street, Brooklyn Hts, NY Then at; Hank Parkhurst’s house in NJ Then at; Bob and Marguarite ?Volentine’s house – also in NJ Also, at Bet Taylor’s house at interim Then at Steinway Hall.? ? ? Question: Were these four meeting locations considered the First AA Group, albeit with different locations” ? If so, would that make the Akron meetings at T, Henry and Clarace Williams house; then Dr Bob’s house; then Kings School be considered the second AA group? ? Or is there a better configuration of order of sequence? ? Thanks in advance. ? Bob S ? **** ? ? Gene... These were not so much “new” meetings as extensions of what had been going on already in NY/NJ AA. ? Bill and Lois had to vacate their Brooklyn home on April 26, 1939 and they were basically homeless for the next two years. Without the “home base” at 182 Clinton Street, meetings moved to Hank Parkhurst’s house in Montclair and then – when Hank and Kathleen first split up in June, 1939 – to Bob and Marguarite Volentine’s house – also in New Jersey. ? There are several references in Lois’s 1939 diary to Sunday meetings at the Parkhurst’s house and to Tuesday meetings in New York City – which seemed to have been held, at first, in Bert Taylor’s apartment on 72nd Street and then, shortly after that (because of the size of the group?), at Steinway Hall in mid-town. ? NOTE that Lois’ count included wives who regularly attended meetings with their husbands in those days. ? -- Bob S
--
Eugene Lane
Redondo Bch Ca
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Sequence of AA early AA meetings
I understand that the first meeting in NYC met at several locations” ? 182 Clinton Street, Brooklyn Hts, NY Then at; Hank Parkhurst’s house in NJ Then at; Bob and Marguarite ?Volentine’s house – also in NJ Also, at Bet Taylor’s house at interim Then at Steinway Hall.? ? ? Question: Were these four meeting locations considered the First AA Group, albeit with different locations” ? If so, would that make the Akron meetings at T, Henry and Clarace Williams house; then Dr Bob’s house; then Kings School be considered the second AA group? ? Or is there a better configuration of order of sequence? ? Thanks in advance. ? Bob S ? **** ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of william schaberg Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:15 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] Sept 39 meetings?? ? Gene... These were not so much “new” meetings as extensions of what had been going on already in NY/NJ AA. ? Bill and Lois had to vacate their Brooklyn home on April 26, 1939 and they were basically homeless for the next two years. Without the “home base” at 182 Clinton Street, meetings moved to Hank Parkhurst’s house in Montclair and then – when Hank and Kathleen first split up in June, 1939 – to Bob and Marguarite Volentine’s house – also in New Jersey. ? There are several references in Lois’s 1939 diary to Sunday meetings at the Parkhurst’s house and to Tuesday meetings in New York City – which seemed to have been held, at first, in Bert Taylor’s apartment on 72nd Street and then, shortly after that (because of the size of the group?), at Steinway Hall in mid-town. ? NOTE that Lois’ count included wives who regularly attended meetings with their husbands in those days. ? -- Bob S
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Re: finally received Richard Peabody's official death certificate from the state of Vermont
Is there any way that we can see a copy or decent scan of this as well, please?
Best,
Thom
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How come Bob Person's giant history of AA never got published?
My memory may be incorrect but I believe Glenn C. had lots of problems with the paper factually. I could be wrong about this. The entire book is up at Silworth.net and Bob P. is the author of AA Taught him to Handel Sobriety in 3rd and 4th editions, wrote a famous paper on rigidity in AA and worked in the Central office in the 80s (I think)
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finally received Richard Peabody's official death certificate from the state of Vermont
?Cause of Death and Interval (Onset to Death):?
? ? A. Chronic Alcohol Abuse (Unknown)
That's all it says. Now Adam Richmond here did find a vintage looking form that says "Death Male" listing Richard Peabody and at "Principal Cause of Death" it says ?"Acute Cardiac Dilatation, Chronic Myocarditis, Chronic Alcoholism."
Not sure why my death certificate differs from the one Richmond found or where Richmond found it.
Anyone know why official Vermont Death Certificate would say - Chronic Alcohol Abuse and what unknown is about??
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Gene...
These were not so much “new” meetings as extensions of what had been going on already in NY/NJ AA.
?
Bill and Lois had to vacate their Brooklyn home on April 26, 1939 and they were basically homeless for the next two years. Without the “home base” at 182 Clinton Street, meetings moved to Hank Parkhurst’s house in Montclair and then – when Hank and Kathleen first split up in June, 1939 – to Bob and Marguarite Volentine’s house – also in New Jersey.
?
There are several references in Lois’s 1939 diary to Sunday meetings at the Parkhurst’s house and to Tuesday meetings in New York City – which seemed to have been held, at first, in Bert Taylor’s apartment on 72nd Street and then, shortly after that (because of the size of the group?), at Steinway Hall in mid-town.
?
NOTE that Lois’ count included wives who regularly attended meetings with their husbands in those days. ?
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Re: Chartered a plane to complete a jag!
You will find some of the info you are looking for in the book "Ebby The man wo sponsored Bill W, written by Mel B. Hope this helps.
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I never heard of these 2 meetings happening in 1939.? I only new of NY, Akron and Cleveland.? Were there more meetings going on than we generally hv been toold.
Volentines 55 in attendance and Steinway Hall over 60 in attendance in sept 39. These are from Lois diary early sept 39 from Writing the BB.
-- Eugene Lane Redondo Bch Ca
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EARLY INDIANAPOLIS AA. a Pictorial view
This sequence of events illustrates how AA was connected around the country in those early days of 1939-1940. ? Fall of 1939: Doherty Sheerin, from Indianapolis, ?gets AA information from reading “Alcoholics and God,” by Morris Markey, from the then-popular Liberty Magazine.? April 1940: He connects with Ruth Hock at the AA Central Office in New York. 1940: ?Ruth Hock reports Doherty Sheerin’s request for help to Clarence Snyder, from Cleveland, Ohio (Clarence was in charge of 12-step work in several states, including in Indiana.) September 1940: Clarence sends his sponsee, a traveling salesman named Irwin Myerson, to visit Doherty. October ?28, 1940: ?First AA meeting started in Indianapolis, by Doherty Sheerin and four others . . . . at 2048 E 106th ?Street, Indianapolis. ? This link opens with a 48-page PDF file of ?“EARLY INDIANAPOLIS AA. a Pictorial view:” ???????????????? ? Bob S ? -- Bob S
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Crescentdave
Gene
Bob S
Thom R.
william schaberg