History of "Automatic writing"
Dear Editor,
?
The attached PDF file my not fit into the parameters of this group¡¯s guidelines. If not I have also attached the graphic¡ªonly that may be appropriate instead.? Thanks.
??
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Although the Big Book doesn¡¯t mention spontaneous, or automatic writing, the idea has been around the periphery of the fellowship since the beginning. Many of us have read the popular TWENTY FOUR HOURS A DAY book. Well, the middle-meditation-section of each page comes from, in a loose manner, an Oxford Group ?writing titled GOD CALLING, by AJ Russell. This was inspired from two ladies from England, who wished to remain anonymous¡ªthey prayed to God, then wrote their answers on paper.
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Another example can be found on page 198 of PASS IT ON where it describes how Bill was changing the six steps into twelve: ??¡° As he started to write he asked for guidance. And he relaxed. The words began tumbling out at an amazing speed. He completed the first draft in about a half hour.¡±
?
Bob S
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-- Bob S [Moderator's note: It's about our History (or about something leading up to it). Why would it not be appropriate? :) THANK YOU for your contributions, always! I am also adding this to your folder in the files section. --Thom]
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Ernie Kurtz: A Reverence for History (video link)
An excellent ~30 minute presentation about Ernest Kurtz, author of "Not God" (and more).
Description:
"In this short interview Ernie Kurtz, renowned A.A. Historian and author of Not-God: A History of Alcoholics Anonymous, discusses his thoughts about the topic of history in general, and reveals some fascinating insights into A.A.'s history in particular. The video was shown for the first time as the keynote address at the inaugural A.A. History Conference held February 21 -- 23 in Sedona, Arizona. Watch it at Page124.com on the home page."
https://vimeo.com/91456549
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Re: File /Historical and Local Pamphlets/p-6 Three Talks to Medical Societies by Bill W.(retired pamphlet).pdf uploaded
#file-notice
Good morning everyone, I hope you are very well.
I am a reader of you (although I do not speak English, I use a translator), I greet you from San Juan del Rio, Queretaro, Mexico.
Keep up the good guys.
Thanks for your job. Regards
Luis Tomas
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Merton M.'s "Black Sheep: A History of AA in New Jersey and Surrounding Vicinity 1935-1950"
Currently looking for Merton M.'s contact info, author of said paper. Any help would be appreciated
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I'm doing a workshop on Hank next year and i'm doing research. If anyone has any information that would help please send it to me. Thanks, Bob Hickey
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Re: Spiritual Guidance from the Oxford Group
Thanks, Bob.? This is fascinating.? The nightly examination of conscience is a long-established spiritual practice thanks to St. Ignatius I believe, but I didn't know that it might have also started to establish distance from the OG.? Wow.
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I'm curious exactly about the passing of Richard Peabody (The Common Sense Of Drinking). Why do some say he died drunk. Besides Bill W. saying he did, I can find no primary source stating that he did in fact die drunk.
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Re: With Glenn Chesnut's passing, will Hindsfoot.org remain active?
Well, I am in touch with Esa (his daughter) and with Sue (his wife) and we have plans to talk more soon (am letting them have their bereavement at the moment, of course).. His books are already on AAHL in the files section here and I have already mirrored the site and backed it up. Soon we're all going to talk more and while I know there are other people also involved as well, I am personally going to see what can be done on our end also and plan to offer my assistance formally, again. at that time.
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One way or another the content will be preserved. Of that, I can assure you.
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Best,
?
Thom
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With Glenn Chesnut's passing, will Hindsfoot.org remain active?
Or should one print/download articles while Hindsfoot appears to remain active?
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Re: #announcements - Glenn F. Chesnut has passed away, Rest In Peace
#announcements
Great job Thom. I don't have the expertise to help in this matter. Sorry.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
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-------- Original message --------
From: "Thom R." <thomr021092@...>
Date: 9/14/20 1:05 PM (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Special] Re: [AAHistoryLovers] #announcements - Glenn F. Chesnut has passed away, Rest In Peace
I can now announce that literally all of the AAHL (12762 messages by my count) and AAHL2 (1854 messages at this time) have been secured.? I have them, they are safe and it's just a matter of getting them into a format that usable--which is easier said than
done. Every conceivable method of getting them from Yahoo before they were deleted proved to be extremely problematic. Neither Glenn nor I ever found the perfect way of getting them. So while we don't, technically, have a clean copy of them all, we do still
have the opportunity to create one. It's taking and is going to take a lot of work. I've already put a lot into it and I will keep trudging. I at least have it all imported into Thunderbird now but it's still pretty messy. I'm working on ways of getting the
database released at least, some sort of way for us to start browsing it as a group. I'm also working on how best to divide up the work load and bring other people in if anyone wants to help with this extremely tedious but necessary work. This is the non glamour
part of archives, folks! (Is there a glamour part? ;-)
I also have some tricks up my sleeve programming what are known as parsers that may aid in this task but I don't know exactly yet if that's going to work out for this particular project. When the database gets messy, it gets really mess and in rather nonsensical
ways.
The ultimate goal is to present a clean copy of the entire history that's readuly available as well as? searchable.
As far as AA History Buffs goes, I don't think anybody has a full copy of those messages because of the circumstances by which Nancy lost her administrative access to it originally. In fact, the very first messages of AA History Lovers are mainly reposts by
her of content that she included in messages to History Buffs originally. So I think even she knew we weren't going to get full access to that group back.
Unless somebody magically comes forward who happens to somehow have a copy of those original AAHB messages (there were only 639 members at its peak including myself and I couldn't even get all the messages), I'm not sure if? we're ever going to get them all
back. But at least we do have everything from AAHL/AAHL2 from the beginning in 2002 up until now.
Best,
Thom
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Locked
Re: AA history lovers development updates and announcements sticky thread.
I can now announce that literally all of the AAHL (12762 messages by my count) and AAHL2 (1854 messages at this time) have been secured.? I have them, they are safe and it's just a matter of getting them into a format that usable--which is easier said than done. Every conceivable method of getting them from Yahoo before they were deleted proved to be extremely problematic. Neither Glenn nor I ever found the perfect way of getting them. So while we don't, technically, have a clean copy of them all, we do still have the opportunity to create one. It's taking and is going to take a lot of work. I've already put a lot into it and I will keep trudging. I at least have it all imported into Thunderbird now but it's still pretty messy. I'm working on ways of getting the database released at least, some sort of way for us to start browsing it as a group. I'm also working on how best to divide up the work load and bring other people in if anyone wants to help with this extremely tedious but necessary work. This is the non glamour part of archives, folks! (Is there a glamour part? ;-)
I also have some tricks up my sleeve programming what are known as parsers that may aid in this task but I don't know exactly yet if that's going to work out for this particular project. When the database gets messy, it gets really mess and in rather nonsensical ways.
The ultimate goal is to present a clean copy of the entire history that's readily available as well as? searchable.
As far as AA History Buffs goes, I don't think anybody has a full copy of those messages because of the circumstances by which Nancy lost her administrative access to it originally. In fact, the very first messages of AA History Lovers are mainly reposts by her of content that she included in messages to History Buffs originally. So I think even she knew we weren't going to get full access to that group back.
Unless somebody magically comes forward who happens to somehow have a copy of those original AAHB messages (there were only 639 members at its peak including myself and I couldn't even get all the messages), I'm not sure if? we're ever going to get them all back. But at least we do have everything from AAHL/AAHL2 from the beginning in 2002 up until now.
Best,
Thom
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Re: #announcements - Glenn F. Chesnut has passed away, Rest In Peace
#announcements
If you could somehow provide me with a copy of the data extracted from the Yahoo list, I would be willing to take a look at it and try to determine a means of getting it into a format which will lend it self more readily to being put into a database (or spreadsheet) for searching.
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I have done some rather extensive data migration projects and can work on this on some of my evenings and weekends to see what I can come up with.? If there were separate download files from Yahoo, I would just need one since the format should be somewhat consistent across all exports (this is my assumption here, not based upon knowledge).
?
Jim
[Moderator comment: I am working on putting together a "sample" package of various messages that have unique issues to show anyone interested what we are dealing with. If someone can come up with clever way to deal with this that is less? manual labor intensive, then we can always then use those methods to process the rest. I, too, am working out some ways of dealing with them. :)?
It's what I've been working on this week. I should have something to show you fairly soon. -Thom]
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Re: File /Historical and Local Pamphlets/p-6 Three Talks to Medical Societies by Bill W.(retired pamphlet).pdf uploaded
#file-notice
Well, it's hard to argue against a conspiracy theory since I don't have all of those details. All I can say is that it went through 3 years of consideration before it was retired. The discussion started in 2015 in Subcommittee and the final decision was made in 2017 by the Committee on Cooperation with the Professional Community.? It was also discussed that perhaps a future brochure with service material containing some of AA's long history of communication with the Professional Community might be more appropriate than something written by Bill lo these many years.?
Personally I am going to review the pamphlet to see what might be considered "outdated" medically speaking and which might now even be considered as "outside issues" by AA and which might not represent AA well to the modern medical professional and the fact that AA has no opinions on medical issues. Any other factual historical information will be appreciated.?
Thanks
[Edited Message Follows]
Ahhh but therein lies the rub.
If that is the actual reason, some arbitrary issue of "tone" then we had better retire Doctor's Opinion, A Member's Eye View, Jack Alexander, even the 12 and 12, to name only a few, before somebody gets "hurt."?
That being said, I have some pretty strong evidence (that I am still following up on) that the motion and decision to retire it was made entirely out of order and in a way that can be argued is very much against the Traditions and Concepts.
Intrigued? So am I. This is why I have spent so much time, money and energy investigating this. The very fact that certain real answers have been so difficult to obtain and the fact that certain parties have told me conflicting answers that can only be seen as sketch at best has turned this simple question, ("What exactly, EXACTLY is wrong with it?") into quite the adventure in detective work.
So far, everything I am finding in my quite thorough investigation of the past few years points to Three Talks being a victim of "cancel culture" and little else.
Best,
Thom
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Re: File /Historical and Local Pamphlets/p-6 Three Talks to Medical Societies by Bill W.(retired pamphlet).pdf uploaded
#file-notice
Ahhh but therein lies the rub.
If that is the actual reason, some arbitrary issue of "tone" then we had better retire Doctor's Opinion, A Member's Eye View, Jack Alexander, even the 12 and 12, to name only a few, before somebody gets "hurt."?
That being said, I have some pretty strong evidence (that I am still following up on) that the motion and decision to retire it was made entirely out of order and in a way that can be argued is very much against the Traditions and Concepts.
Intrigued? So am I. This is why I have spent so much time, money and energy investigating this. The very fact that certain real answers have been so difficult to obtain and the fact that certain parties have told me conflicting answers that can only be seen as sketch at best has turned this simple question, ("What exactly, EXACTLY is wrong with it?") into quite the adventure in detective work.
So far, everything I am finding in my quite thorough investigation of the past few years points to Three Talks being a victim of "cancel culture" and little else.
Surely, the bar to decide to "retire" an entire historical pamphlet that is still in much higher demand than many others still available would be higher than some arbitrary reason than what GSO and the conference report stated? I thought motions were supposed to be specific? What, EXACTLY, is wrong with it??
I truly believe that this is a dangerous precident. If the bar is that low, if no actual specific issues need be raised that the conference can merely start wiping out literature because of "tone" then why can't we take a machete to much of our other "dated feeling" literature as well?
Were the possibilies of an edit if something actially was now provably "wrong or bad medical advice" (of which this pamphlet was never Intended to be, even in 1949, in fact that was the entire stated point of it in the first place) or maybe even an added footnote or disclaimer stating that this may be dated "feeling" but still is important AA history, were these even explored?
"Retiring" something in AA means that while you and I as archivists might know it is available through a manual process on a case by case basis, I wonder that our posterity no longer has a good way to even know it existed since it is no longer in catalog nor is it available on demand in the still too small "history" section of the AA web site. In cases like this, where no clear reason is ever given, even when it is begged for, one could conclude that this is a form of censorship.?
I cannot agree that a copy buried in the unindexed archives is a proper fate for such an important work.?
I have made it available here.? I invite you to tag it for yourselves and to please,? tell me what is specifically objectionable about it in light of pretty much all of our other literature??
If the movement that is trying to "modernize" our historical literature can't get love on the idea of a "plain language" Big Book (whatever that means) then why not go after something that is obtainable, instead? I am under a very strong impression that this is exactly what has occurred here. It is the only theory I have at the moment that fires on all cylinders at once.
Best,
Thom
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Re: #announcements - Glenn F. Chesnut has passed away, Rest In Peace
#announcements
Great work, Thom
What a great accomplishment with a very difficult situation. Kudos!
I can now announce that literally all of the AAHL (12762 messages by my count) and AAHL2 (1854 messages at this time) have been secured.? I have them, they are safe and it's just a matter of getting them into a format that usable--which is easier said than done. Every conceivable method of getting them from Yahoo before they were deleted proved to be extremely problematic. Neither Glenn nor I ever found the perfect way of getting them. So while we don't, technically, have a clean copy of them all, we do still have the opportunity to create one. It's taking and is going to take a lot of work. I've already put a lot into it and I will keep trudging. I at least have it all imported into Thunderbird now but it's still pretty messy. I'm working on ways of getting the database released at least, some sort of way for us to start browsing it as a group. I'm also working on how best to divide up the work load and bring other people in if anyone wants to help with this extremely tedious but necessary work. This is the non glamour part of archives, folks! (Is there a glamour part? ;-)
I also have some tricks up my sleeve programming what are known as parsers that may aid in this task but I don't know exactly yet if that's going to work out for this particular project. When the database gets messy, it gets really mess and in rather nonsensical ways.
The ultimate goal is to present a clean copy of the entire history that's readuly available as well as? searchable.
As far as AA History Buffs goes, I don't think anybody has a full copy of those messages because of the circumstances by which Nancy lost her administrative access to it originally. In fact, the very first messages of AA History Lovers are mainly reposts by her of content that she included in messages to History Buffs originally. So I think even she knew we weren't going to get full access to that group back.
Unless somebody magically comes forward who happens to somehow have a copy of those original AAHB messages (there were only 639 members at its peak including myself and I couldn't even get all the messages), I'm not sure if? we're ever going to get them all back. But at least we do have everything from AAHL/AAHL2 from the beginning in 2002 up until now.
Best,
Thom
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Re: Rowland Hazard's name misspelled. Significance?
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Re: #announcements - Glenn F. Chesnut has passed away, Rest In Peace
#announcements
Thom,
Thanks for all your considerable work in preserving the AAHL archives. The current situation sounds pretty daunting but I wonder if our friends in the NAATW could lend a helping hand with some clever coding? They've been friendly to the archives community, having been inspired nby NAAAW in their origin and they seem to be happy to be of service wherever they can. I realize that AAHL is not within the A.A. service structure, but the worst they could do is say No.
Theron?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On September 14, 2020 at 12:05:50 PM, Thom R. (thomr021092@...) wrote: I can now announce that literally all of the AAHL (12762 messages by my count) and AAHL2 (1854 messages at this time) have been secured.? I have them, they are safe and it's just a matter of getting them into a format that usable--which is easier said than done. Every conceivable method of getting them from Yahoo before they were deleted proved to be extremely problematic. Neither Glenn nor I ever found the perfect way of getting them. So while we don't, technically, have a clean copy of them all, we do still have the opportunity to create one. It's taking and is going to take a lot of work. I've already put a lot into it and I will keep trudging. I at least have it all imported into Thunderbird now but it's still pretty messy. I'm working on ways of getting the database released at least, some sort of way for us to start browsing it as a group. I'm also working on how best to divide up the work load and bring other people in if anyone wants to help with this extremely tedious but necessary work. This is the non glamour part of archives, folks! (Is there a glamour part? ;-)
I also have some tricks up my sleeve programming what are known as parsers that may aid in this task but I don't know exactly yet if that's going to work out for this particular project. When the database gets messy, it gets really mess and in rather nonsensical ways.
The ultimate goal is to present a clean copy of the entire history that's readuly available as well as? searchable.
As far as AA History Buffs goes, I don't think anybody has a full copy of those messages because of the circumstances by which Nancy lost her administrative access to it originally. In fact, the very first messages of AA History Lovers are mainly reposts by her of content that she included in messages to History Buffs originally. So I think even she knew we weren't going to get full access to that group back.
Unless somebody magically comes forward who happens to somehow have a copy of those original AAHB messages (there were only 639 members at its peak including myself and I couldn't even get all the messages), I'm not sure if? we're ever going to get them all back. But at least we do have everything from AAHL/AAHL2 from the beginning in 2002 up until now.
Best,
Thom
|
Re: #announcements - Glenn F. Chesnut has passed away, Rest In Peace
#announcements
I can now announce that literally all of the AAHL (12762 messages by my count) and AAHL2 (1854 messages at this time) have been secured.? I have them, they are safe and it's just a matter of getting them into a format that usable--which is easier said than done. Every conceivable method of getting them from Yahoo before they were deleted proved to be extremely problematic. Neither Glenn nor I ever found the perfect way of getting them. So while we don't, technically, have a clean copy of them all, we do still have the opportunity to create one. It's taking and is going to take a lot of work. I've already put a lot into it and I will keep trudging. I at least have it all imported into Thunderbird now but it's still pretty messy. I'm working on ways of getting the database released at least, some sort of way for us to start browsing it as a group. I'm also working on how best to divide up the work load and bring other people in if anyone wants to help with this extremely tedious but necessary work. This is the non glamour part of archives, folks! (Is there a glamour part? ;-)
I also have some tricks up my sleeve programming what are known as parsers that may aid in this task but I don't know exactly yet if that's going to work out for this particular project. When the database gets messy, it gets really mess and in rather nonsensical ways.
The ultimate goal is to present a clean copy of the entire history that's readily available as well as? searchable.
As far as AA History Buffs goes, I don't think anybody has a full copy of those messages because of the circumstances by which Nancy lost her administrative access to it originally. In fact, the very first messages of AA History Lovers are mainly reposts by her of content that she included in messages to History Buffs originally. So I think even she knew we weren't going to get full access to that group back.
Unless somebody magically comes forward who happens to somehow have a copy of those original AAHB messages (there were only 639 members at its peak including myself and I couldn't even get all the messages), I'm not sure if? we're ever going to get them all back. But at least we do have everything from AAHL/AAHL2 from the beginning in 2002 up until now.
Best,
Thom
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Re: File /Historical and Local Pamphlets/p-6 Three Talks to Medical Societies by Bill W.(retired pamphlet).pdf uploaded
#file-notice
Hello.
According to GSO,? "The pamphlet, ¡°Three Talks to Medical Societies by
Bill W.¡± was ¡°retired¡± per Conference Action in 2017. It was the sense that the
content is ¡°dated¡± and ¡°not helpful towards today¡¯s communication about A.A.¡±? Because?of its historical value, it is still available from the archives for historical purposes.? Hope this helps
Jim?
But it WAS still selling. It was much more popular than many other pamphlets still. We do not need to speculate. I've spent a few thousand dollars of my own money and much time trying to find out what happened to this pamphlet and the people who did this have been tight lipped.?
Thom
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Re: Clancy I. passed away today qat approximately 3:15pm pacific time.
#announcements
Thom sorry t took so long to reply to this. I
am sorry for you loss. You are in my prayers.
On 8/24/2020 6:55 PM, Thom R. wrote:
I can barely type but I need to tell you all that my current
sponsor (off and on since 1996, on for the last few years), Clancy
I., founder of the Pacific Group (and so much more), passed away
about 90 minutes ago (around 3:15PM pacific), this day, August 24,
2020.
I'll post more later, I am in shock, right now.
I wish I had better news.
Thom R.
Your Moderator
--
sent to you by Terry J. Gorham
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Bob S
Thom R.