On September 14, 2020 at 12:05:50 PM, Thom R. (thomr021092@...) wrote:

I can now announce that literally all of the AAHL (12762 messages by my count) and AAHL2 (1854 messages at this time) have been secured.? I have them, they are safe and it's just a matter of getting them into a format that usable--which is easier said than done. Every conceivable method of getting them from Yahoo before they were deleted proved to be extremely problematic. Neither Glenn nor I ever found the perfect way of getting them. So while we don't, technically, have a clean copy of them all, we do still have the opportunity to create one. It's taking and is going to take a lot of work. I've already put a lot into it and I will keep trudging. I at least have it all imported into Thunderbird now but it's still pretty messy. I'm working on ways of getting the database released at least, some sort of way for us to start browsing it as a group. I'm also working on how best to divide up the work load and bring other people in if anyone wants to help with this extremely tedious but necessary work. This is the non glamour part of archives, folks! (Is there a glamour part? ;-)

I also have some tricks up my sleeve programming what are known as parsers that may aid in this task but I don't know exactly yet if that's going to work out for this particular project. When the database gets messy, it gets really mess and in rather nonsensical ways.

The ultimate goal is to present a clean copy of the entire history that's readuly available as well as? searchable.

As far as AA History Buffs goes, I don't think anybody has a full copy of those messages because of the circumstances by which Nancy lost her administrative access to it originally. In fact, the very first messages of AA History Lovers are mainly reposts by her of content that she included in messages to History Buffs originally. So I think even she knew we weren't going to get full access to that group back.

Unless somebody magically comes forward who happens to somehow have a copy of those original AAHB messages (there were only 639 members at its peak including myself and I couldn't even get all the messages), I'm not sure if? we're ever going to get them all back. But at least we do have everything from AAHL/AAHL2 from the beginning in 2002 up until now.

Best,

Thom

On Sep 13, 2020, at 7:35 PM, 0943 <ralphcoon@...> wrote:

?I was aware of his ranch in New Mexico. I do not know what "52 page soft bound Name on cover Roland John Schram" from your post means.

Those wishing to read more about Hazard, see: Finch's Stellar Fire: Carl Jung, A New England Family, and the Risks of Anecdote also Finch's Additional Notes to Stellar Fire. See also "Rowland Hazard and The Beginnings of AA in Dubiel's The Road To Fellowship. Those in Rhode Island may wish to research Dalpe and Stattler's A Guide To The Rowland Hazard III Papers at the Rhode Island Historical Society. Also Down's Men Of New England and Hazard's obituary "Rowland Hazard Dead in 65th Year", Providence Journal 12/21/45

-----Original Message-----
From: 0943
Sent: Sep 13, 2020 1:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Rowland Hazard's name misspelled. Significance?

I'm currently researching Rowland Hazard. In looking at Wilson/Jung letters Re: Hazard written in 1961, both Wilson and Jung misspell Rowland's name as "Roland." In looking through internet image searches of the original letters, it seems both Wilson and Jung misspell his name. Then things get confusing. ?In internet searches of discussions of the Wilson/Jung letters re: Rowland where people enter the data of the letters themselves, they ostensibly correct "Roland" ?to "Rowland." ?In Pass It On (page 381) ?Wilson's letter to Jung is discussed, reprinting the data of the letter only. Bill's misspelling here remains. However, on the next page (page 383) in Jung's reply letter, the data is the correct spelling of "Rowland."

I'm bring this up because G. Chesnut had an interesting theory, but to my research, Chesnut's info is incorrect, but his theory remains Re: misspelling. In The book The Road To Fellowship by Richard Dubiel on page 162 n191, Chesnut discusses the misspelling: "It (the misspelling) is significant that Bill, in his letter to Jung, misspelled Hazard's fist name as 'Roland,' leaving out the W in the middle (Pass It On P. 382). Someone from Switzerland (remembering the famous Song of Roland and other continental European usages of the name in that spelling) would have simply assumed that this was the correct spelling, barring any other information to the contrary. Roland with the W is in fact the only form that the spell checker in my American word processing program regards as correct. And yet Jung, in his letter of replay, quietly correct the spelling and referred to the businessman as 'Rowland' with a W (Pass It On Page 383). This seems a clear indication that Jung either still remembered what would have seemed to him an odd spelling of the name, or had old case files to refer to. In either eventuality, Jung clearly had been in some sort of contact with Rowland Hazard somewhere along the way."

Now according to my research, Chesnut is wrong: Along with Wilson, Jung also misspells Rowland's name.

Why does any of this matter? According to my research and new dissertation papers written about Hazard accessing newly found Hazard Family papers at the Rhode Island Historical Society, Hazard DID NOT spend a year studying with Jung as AA history tradition has told us (me). He spent more like a couple of weeks. He seems not to even have been remembered by Wilson or Jung much, hence the name misspelling.

That Hazard spent more time with Courtenay Baylor learning from Baylor and his (Baylor's) Emmanuel Movement's psychological approach to dealing with alcoholism as opposed to Jung's "You need a spiritual experience to deal with this alcoholism" as AA tradition tells us (me) seems apparent.

-----Original Message-----
From: 0943
Sent: Sep 13, 2020 1:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Rowland Hazard's name misspelled. Significance?

I'm currently researching Rowland Hazard. In looking at Wilson/Jung letters Re: Hazard written in 1961, both Wilson and Jung misspell Rowland's name as "Roland." In looking through internet image searches of the original letters, it seems both Wilson and Jung misspell his name. Then things get confusing. ?In internet searches of discussions of the Wilson/Jung letters re: Rowland where people enter the data of the letters themselves, they ostensibly correct "Roland" ?to "Rowland." ?In Pass It On (page 381) ?Wilson's letter to Jung is discussed, reprinting the data of the letter only. Bill's misspelling here remains. However, on the next page (page 383) in Jung's reply letter, the data is the correct spelling of "Rowland."

I'm bring this up because G. Chesnut had an interesting theory, but to my research, Chesnut's info is incorrect, but his theory remains Re: misspelling. In The book The Road To Fellowship by Richard Dubiel on page 162 n191, Chesnut discusses the misspelling: "It (the misspelling) is significant that Bill, in his letter to Jung, misspelled Hazard's fist name as 'Roland,' leaving out the W in the middle (Pass It On P. 382). Someone from Switzerland (remembering the famous Song of Roland and other continental European usages of the name in that spelling) would have simply assumed that this was the correct spelling, barring any other information to the contrary. Roland with the W is in fact the only form that the spell checker in my American word processing program regards as correct. And yet Jung, in his letter of replay, quietly correct the spelling and referred to the businessman as 'Rowland' with a W (Pass It On Page 383). This seems a clear indication that Jung either still remembered what would have seemed to him an odd spelling of the name, or had old case files to refer to. In either eventuality, Jung clearly had been in some sort of contact with Rowland Hazard somewhere along the way."

Now according to my research, Chesnut is wrong: Along with Wilson, Jung also misspells Rowland's name.

Why does any of this matter? According to my research and new dissertation papers written about Hazard accessing newly found Hazard Family papers at the Rhode Island Historical Society, Hazard DID NOT spend a year studying with Jung as AA history tradition has told us (me). He spent more like a couple of weeks. He seems not to even have been remembered by Wilson or Jung much, hence the name misspelling.

That Hazard spent more time with Courtenay Baylor learning from Baylor and his (Baylor's) Emmanuel Movement's psychological approach to dealing with alcoholism as opposed to Jung's "You need a spiritual experience to deal with this alcoholism" as AA tradition tells us (me) seems apparent.

On Sep 12, 2020, at 8:58 AM, [email protected] Notification <[email protected]> wrote:

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The following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.

• /Historical and Local Pamphlets/p-6 Three Talks to Medical Societies by Bill W.(retired pamphlet).pdf

By: Thom R.

Description:
Originally published in 1949 and out of copyright in the US, this pamphlet was "retired" recently for reasons that, for the life of me, I cannot get a straight answer to. If anyone can shed any light on the true reason(s) this pamphlet was "retired" please let us all know. This is an incredible pamphlet and even included the best (only) verbose version in Bill's own words, the six steps as Ebby gave them to him. I am making it available here on AAHL not only because of its immense historical value but also in protest. I have spent a lot of time, effort and even money travelling to regionals, etc. trying to get answers but am never given true, direct answers even by those who rammed it through (without any actual stated reasons that I could find in the Conference background nor by direct questions to the committees involved, as to what exactly was wrong with this pamphlet where the PI/CPC committee (an outward facing committee it can be argued) of panel 68 was able to decide for all of us inside AA itself that this pamphlet should be taken from us. They did this while the literature committee just sat back and watched, without objection, as it was forced through a very busy GSC that has over 90 items on the agenda to tear through. All of this stinks to high heaven and some answers would be nice. In the meantime, can anyone spot anything in this historical pamphlet that would be so "dangerous" to the internal AA fellowship that it should be taken away from us wholesale? Because I sure can't. --Thom

On Sep 12, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Jim <jimincancun@...> wrote:

Link will not open?

On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 06:23 [email protected] Notification <[email protected]> wrote:

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The following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.

• /Glenn F Chesnut AA History/History of AA History Lovers Glenn Chestnut.pdf

By: Thom R.

Description:
The History of AA History Lovers by Glenn F. Chesnut-- and WE, together, are just getting started in writing the next chapter(s) and to continue this!

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